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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:58 AM Apr 2016

There's a reason millions of voters are aligning with Sanders.

It's because their problems aren't getting solved. For the last 2 generations, the country has been gradually becoming a worse place, not better. Endless war, rising income inequality, decaying public education, decaying public infrastructure, wages not keeping up with inflation...

People are getting desperate. It's a dangerous state for a nation to be in. It's the kind of climate that gives rise to the Mussolinis and Hitlers of history.

The last time this happened, we got lucky. We got FDR instead of our own Mussolini. Maybe we'll get lucky again, but It's like playing russian roulette. There will always be men like Trump, ready to pander to racism and desperation.

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There's a reason millions of voters are aligning with Sanders. (Original Post) phantom power Apr 2016 OP
Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #1
And their lives are only a joke to you? daleanime Apr 2016 #2
I was 19 once too, I don't hold it against them. DanTex Apr 2016 #3
And they provide so much mirth.... daleanime Apr 2016 #11
and the minimum wage was probably not much different then, than it is now? lostnfound Apr 2016 #14
I dunno what it was, I was in college. DanTex Apr 2016 #16
What? Are you saying that you didn't work.... daleanime Apr 2016 #28
Nope. Full-time student. DanTex Apr 2016 #29
Did you borrow to go to college? JDPriestly Apr 2016 #38
Of course, most of Team Hill here says they are in the 1%, or just shy of it Hydra Apr 2016 #34
"Lack of empathy...." daleanime Apr 2016 #48
I'm 30 years old. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #47
I am 65 and have worked since age 14. You are smearing a large, diverse group, you know? nt tblue37 Apr 2016 #51
Thanks for adding that helpful point to the discussion tabasco Apr 2016 #4
What the hell is wrong with some people. SamKnause Apr 2016 #10
+1 daleanime Apr 2016 #12
I support Bernie and I'm 57 PatrickforO Apr 2016 #24
^THIS^ SusanCalvin Apr 2016 #30
Best reply in the thread, right above. Scuba Apr 2016 #32
Thank you for stating it so well, PatrickforO. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #41
This says it all nt Melurkyoulongtime Apr 2016 #55
Still as funny as ever. dchill Apr 2016 #5
AF vet, 40 years in the workforce and you think I've never had a job? Scuba Apr 2016 #6
LOL. My reply was a bit longer. PatrickforO Apr 2016 #25
The fact that you sound so much like a Republican is interesting. phantom power Apr 2016 #8
so many do amborin Apr 2016 #50
I think you're confused elias7 Apr 2016 #20
You talking to me, Bub? nt SusanCalvin Apr 2016 #26
What a vile, disgusting comment. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #46
Why are more voters, overall, aligning with Clinton? (nt) Recursion Apr 2016 #7
Both of my kids are strong Bernie supporters Dem2 Apr 2016 #9
Why should the future depend upon parents like you going through great difficulty? Land Shark Apr 2016 #15
One of them expresses that she feels "awful" about the situation Dem2 Apr 2016 #21
Maybe they regret that they are a burden on your resources lostnfound Apr 2016 #18
I'm sure they agree with this Dem2 Apr 2016 #23
Face facts: you're older and have had more time to learn AND you're THEIR PARENT Land Shark Apr 2016 #39
I realize it's an unfair criticism to an extent Dem2 Apr 2016 #40
But...wait... PatrickforO Apr 2016 #31
I never said I don't support Bernie Dem2 Apr 2016 #37
So what's the reason that millions more are aligning with Clinton? Tarc Apr 2016 #13
Don't know a single soul who has. I used to, but they have all.changed Land Shark Apr 2016 #17
Those are also the reasons given for the millions aligning with Trump. ucrdem Apr 2016 #19
Millions more have voted for Hillary. Metric System Apr 2016 #22
Millions voted for Hoover too. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #45
We need FDR. We needed him in 2008, or at least someone like LBJ... Blue Meany Apr 2016 #27
...and there's a reason millions more are aligning with Clinton... brooklynite Apr 2016 #33
So she's supporting those things this week? Hydra Apr 2016 #35
Hillary was supporting immigration reform when Sanders was against it, and going to Lou Dobbs show lunamagica Apr 2016 #43
Funny, I remember her rolling all of these out last Spring and Fall... brooklynite Apr 2016 #44
Quite simply, people want "C H A N G E", and NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #36
We got lucky with FDR, ZombieHorde Apr 2016 #42
Finally there's someone to trust felix_numinous Apr 2016 #49
There's a reason HRC has far more votes and supporters than Bernie. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2016 #52
kick azmom Apr 2016 #53
What's an actual metric by which you consider the US a worse place now than two generations ago? Recursion Apr 2016 #54
I can answer that. . . snowy owl Apr 2016 #56

Response to phantom power (Original post)

lostnfound

(16,294 posts)
14. and the minimum wage was probably not much different then, than it is now?
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:14 PM
Apr 2016

Thanks to the GOP and the DINOS... And a corporate-driven economic agenda producing a rigged economy and a government intent on punishing and policing the poor, while legalizing white collar fraud.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
38. Did you borrow to go to college?
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:55 PM
Apr 2016

I worked when I was in college. So did a lot of people back then in the 1960s. You were very lucky if you could go to college without working at the same time.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
34. Of course, most of Team Hill here says they are in the 1%, or just shy of it
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:44 PM
Apr 2016

So if your are detecting a lack of empathy, there's probably a reason for it.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
4. Thanks for adding that helpful point to the discussion
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:02 PM
Apr 2016

and elevating the discourse.

Welcome to my ignore basement.

SamKnause

(13,263 posts)
10. What the hell is wrong with some people.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:08 PM
Apr 2016

I support Bernie.

I am 62, almost 63.

Do these clowns think I have never had a job ???

Do these clowns not know how many people lost their jobs because

of all the horrible Free Trade Deals.

I am one of those people.

I have family members that also lost their jobs.

Do these clowns NOT know what is possible in other countries,

but is apparently NOT possible in this country ???

They have absolutely ZERO to add to any discussion.

Hope you and yours have a safe and happy Sunday.

PatrickforO

(14,675 posts)
24. I support Bernie and I'm 57
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:31 PM
Apr 2016

The idea that Bernie supporters 'have never had jobs' is offensive. I've worked HARD since I was 15. The reason I like Bernie so much, and am supporting him, is that I feel that he cares about me, my family and our kitchen table issues, like healthcare, high student loans and stronger Social Security. I like how he wants to reverse the disastrous tax cut policies that Republicans have foisted off on us, and that have a) NOT created more jobs, b) NOT put more money in the treasury, c) caused cuts in programs that help Americans, d) run up the national debt and e) allowed our infrastructure to crumble. I also like how he wants to take a leadership position on global warming.

So, Dan, you're wrong in a lot of cases. And especially offensive to me, Dan was your statement about minimum wage, "I don't know, I was in college."

I had to work my way through college, not only supporting myself, but earning most of the money for my tuition and books. And just because Bernie wants free tuition in state colleges to reflect the philosophy that education is an investment in our economy rather than something only a few can afford, it doesn't mean the beneficiaries won't have to work to support themselves while attending.

It gets me hot under the collar, Dan, when people start saying all Bernie supporters just want a bunch of free stuff. You know what I say to that, Dan? I'm respectfully gonna have to call 'bullshit' on it, and I'll tell you why.

We pay taxes, Dan, a lot of taxes. Not counting FICA and Medicare, which are payroll taxes, my effective tax rate is about 6.5% of gross. But my healthcare premium, Dan, is 18.8% of my gross and it is a shitty program with high copays and high deductibles. It isn't good enough for me or for my family, Dan. That's why I want single payer. When I get sick, I shouldn't have to worry about anything but showing up at the doctor and getting treated. Period. Ask the millions of seniors who are on Medicare. They'll tell you how good that is.

Why, Dan, can't we use OUR tax dollars, just for once, on stuff that actually helps us. Like healthcare, fixing the infrastructure, strengthening Social Security and addressing global warming? Why does OUR tax money have to be used for domestic spying, a war on drugs we lost the minute we declared, and a forever war? Why, Dan?

elias7

(4,098 posts)
20. I think you're confused
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:22 PM
Apr 2016

Although BS resonates with the youth whereas Hillary does not, most BS supporters are not 19 or in the millenial demographic, most have jobs, most are not "Bros", and most do not fit into the tiny pigeon hole you've imagined a typical BS supporter to look like.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
9. Both of my kids are strong Bernie supporters
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:08 PM
Apr 2016

As they study in their in their college dorms that are paid for by their parents. We are doing everything in our power to see that they are not strapped with student loans, it is very difficult on us. I don't really think it's a matter of problems not being solved for them, I think it's more peer pressure from places like Reddit and tumblr.

Land Shark

(6,346 posts)
15. Why should the future depend upon parents like you going through great difficulty?
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:15 PM
Apr 2016

Quite possibly your kids are aware of what you go through and think it's not right. At least that's what I think. The future should not be a choice between starting life in catastrophic levels of debt (with interest rates higher than car loans) or having ones parents be rich or endure the difficulty alone.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
21. One of them expresses that she feels "awful" about the situation
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:23 PM
Apr 2016

She feels like a spoiled rich kid, though that's hardly the case. I just feel like it's the one thing they absolutely need in life and am willing to make great sacrifices to see that they get it. I do agree with Bernie that public colleges should be free, and they practically were when I went to one ($700/semester.) Sadly, this still doesn't help our situation where they are going to out-of-state schools (public or not, they pay full tuition.) The entire system is rigged against people of lesser means.

lostnfound

(16,294 posts)
18. Maybe they regret that they are a burden on your resources
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:18 PM
Apr 2016

And see that college education is a public good in some other countries?

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
23. I'm sure they agree with this
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:27 PM
Apr 2016

and my post above expresses a little more in this regard. My comment was in relation to the fact that they express no real preferences on the issues, they appear to make arguments that they've heard online, but they are not able to back up what they say. I don't disagree with Bernie, in fact I agree with the arguments, I was just making a point about popularity versus "on the issues" support in their cases.

Land Shark

(6,346 posts)
39. Face facts: you're older and have had more time to learn AND you're THEIR PARENT
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:57 PM
Apr 2016

My kids are straight A students and one is going to a national championship in speaking about the Constitution, but I GUARANTEE that if I disagreed with them on ANY issue and pressed them I would feel and could justify the position that "they got no backup" for their positions. Lol.

First I'm older and have many more years to learn to argue but most importantly kids often times don't want to debate with parents, ESPECIALLY if they are paying the college bills!! With all due respect, a parent can't really say for sure if their kids got backup.or not!

PatrickforO

(14,675 posts)
31. But...wait...
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:41 PM
Apr 2016

Your post implies that your kids don't know any better because they aren't paying; you are.

So, help me understand, why aren't you supporting Bernie? If tuition at state schools was free, then you wouldn't have to have that financial difficulty. Even if you wanted your kids to graduate from an expensive private school, they could do their freshman and sophomore years at a state school and then transfer.

Just wondering. Because I know some people who are suffering mightily because they can't afford healthcare on the corporate 'exchange' and yet don't want single payer because, why, it wouldn't be fair, because someone else might be helped by it too.

Man, that whole attitude was built from decades of 'pull yourself up by the bootstrap' corporate propaganda. Do you really think Diamon or Blankfein pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps? Hell no they didn't. The oligarchs are socialists and we have to be rugged individualists. Don't fall for it!

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
37. I never said I don't support Bernie
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:53 PM
Apr 2016

I like either candidate, not into the "team sport" here, I'm good with what we have for candidates this cycle.

I prefer Bernie's proposal on public colleges.

BTW, what you describe is how I got my degree back in the day - transfer from state to private school last 2 years.

Not going to comment on personal decisions about choosing colleges and my kids preferences, their g-moms preferences, the money chipped in my g-mom to help etc, as with most people dealing with these decisions these days, "it's complicated". I'm just happy that we're nearly halfway through the process and we're still both working and able to get by during these difficult financial times.

Land Shark

(6,346 posts)
17. Don't know a single soul who has. I used to, but they have all.changed
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:18 PM
Apr 2016

Kind of like Hillary losing Nevada, everybody's changing to Bernie!

ucrdem

(15,619 posts)
19. Those are also the reasons given for the millions aligning with Trump.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

They're both counting on the recovery stalling and thanks to the Obama economy which is tootling along I'm afraid they're both going to be disappointed.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
45. Millions voted for Hoover too.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:26 PM
Apr 2016

Millions can be very mistaken at times like this.

I'm for Bernie because I support his policies including campaign finance reform (which he supports by his example), breaking up the big banks (spreading the risks and making sure that the economic decisions are not made by just a few people). Having lived in Europe for years, I very much favor single payer health insurance and free tuition at state colleges. I just like all of Bernie's platform.

And the more people get to know Bernie and his platform, the more votes he gets in general.

Bernie has only been in the race for less than a year. Hillary has been running for what seems like forever.

Name recognition alone will get Hillary more votes. That is probably why Bernie wins the caucus states. The caucus goers know more about politics and are more motivated than people who turn up for elections and push levers then walk out.

Bernie is the way of the future. Hillary is about the past.

Bernie will win the nomination when Democrats decide that the past is behind them and they need to move into the future.

 

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)
27. We need FDR. We needed him in 2008, or at least someone like LBJ...
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:37 PM
Apr 2016

but instead we got a President who was symbolically transformative and did some good things, but was more in the DLC/Clinton mold than in the FDR/LBJ mold. We could perhaps tolerate that in the 1990s, but not now. The current system, and the financial crisis of 2008, has disproportionately hurt people under 35, and to a lesser extent those under 45. African-Americans and Hispanics were also disproportionately hit asset losses (mainly houses) as a result of the crisis. These groups have not recovered and may never recover if something doesn't change--exporting jobs, lowered wages, college debt, do not make for a bright future. This is really a potentially revolutionary moment in our history when the policies of "centrist" corporate Democrats are not going to cut it If the needed changes are going to be made--and people are going to have hope that there is a possibility of change within the existing political system--I think someone like Bernie or Elizabeth Warren needs to be elected. If that does not happen, I expect there to be mass movements for change outside the system in various forms. We watched the occupy movement--a positive, non-violent movement--suppressed under the Obama administration. I expect the Clinton would be less tolerant of dissent than he was.
Unless we want a future of fascism and/or significant social unrest, we need a change of direction now. Sanders may be our last home of staving off this dystopian future.
.

brooklynite

(96,512 posts)
33. ...and there's a reason millions more are aligning with Clinton...
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:42 PM
Apr 2016

...a mainstream pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-immigration reform, pro-criminal justice reform, pro-progressive taxation, pro-campaign finance reform pro-Education Democration with the resources and ability to win in November and build on the progress of the Obama Administration.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
43. Hillary was supporting immigration reform when Sanders was against it, and going to Lou Dobbs show
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:09 PM
Apr 2016

to add fuel to Dobs anti-immigrant fire

brooklynite

(96,512 posts)
44. Funny, I remember her rolling all of these out last Spring and Fall...
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:15 PM
Apr 2016

...name one where she's changed her position.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
36. Quite simply, people want "C H A N G E", and
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:51 PM
Apr 2016


That's what Bernie is all about. There's always room in the Revolution, join us.

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
49. Finally there's someone to trust
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 12:07 AM
Apr 2016

who isn't suddenly going to screw up his taxes while running for president. He already has our trust, and that cannot be bought with those millions of dollars.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
54. What's an actual metric by which you consider the US a worse place now than two generations ago?
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 12:52 AM
Apr 2016

I hear this a lot and I'm never sure what people are talking about.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
56. I can answer that. . .
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 04:35 AM
Apr 2016

some people about lack of jobs
others about income disparity
some about minimum wages
others about higher ed expenses
even others might despair about healthcare costs
some others it is deregulation and environment
occasionally smart people worry about government regulators who no longer enforce regulations
of course, many of us worry about climate change and our kids and grandkids
and a few, like me, would say it is all of the above

When we had a 90% tax rate, there was no chance of an oligarchy or plutocracy. Now we have one. I liked the middle class.

Where are our Francis Perkins? Henry Wallaces? Much less FDRs? Read about Henry Wallace and you'll see what we could have been.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/14297-henry-wallace-americas-forgotten-visionary

It was the business class(called Koch Brothers today) that reset the path of FDR. History is a wonderful teacher.

Anything else?

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