Just a thought from an observer

[ClarkJonathanKent]

When Bernie really started picking up steam, the part of my brain/self that lives in hope said that he was going to win the primary. With that conclusion in mind, and not being that fond of Hillary (I'll vote for her if she wins) I remarked to a friend that Hillary will either lose the primary with class, or lose the general with dishonor. My logic being that once she was afraid of Bernie, she and her associates would cheat as best they could to steal the primary, which would in turn piss off a lot of the progressives that might have voted for her in the general.

We obviously don't know yet, but it surely appears like that is happening.

Also, if this was a general election in Ohio or Florida, and 126,000 people that (probably) lean Democratic were mysteriously purged from the system, I am pretty sure all Democrats would be screaming holy hell. So, if you are a Hillary person and you are not enraged at this latest purge that will (probably) benefit Hillary, you may want to reassess your moral compass and integrity. Lastly, I will still vote for her in the General because I try to be pragmatic, but I am pretty sure events like this are going to drive away a lot of people who were considering voting for her if she wins. And I won't blame them.

[Dem2]

1. Got proof of wrongdoing on Hillary's part

Or is this just the "it must be Hillary, cuz my candidate or just Democrats in general never make mistakes, never mind do nefarious things?"

[randome]

2. Proof? Not even a half-baked suspicion. Just a wild-eyed, tortured complaint that it must be so.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[RobertEarl]

6. No. Just common sense

The establishment which fully supports H is in charge of elections. So whatever problems there are are because of the establishment which backs H.

So simple even a non-voter can grok it.

[JackRiddler]

20. Wrong question.

Even the mayor's suggesting 120,000 people were disenfranchised in Brooklyn.

The system is flawed and rigged in many ways, going back decades. Machine politics on automatic, no one need be in charged - the results are always a farce.

What if everyone just got to vote for whomever they wanted? What would you call that, democracy and not as righteous as the rule of party nomenklatura?

[Dem2]

24. What's interesting is that Hillary lost votes assuming those 120,000 wanted to vote and couldn't

She won Brooklyn 60-40.

I agree that all people who want to vote should be allowed to, nobody has ever suggested otherwise.

The real issue is will people continue to be outraged and do something about these supposed issues, or is it as most of us suspect, a bunch of armchair pols sitting at home looking for reasons to justify why their particular candidate didn't do as well as they expected?

[JackRiddler]

26. No, what's interesting is 120,000 purged, apparently...

while registration in every other county went up.

What's interesting otherwise is a system where most people aren't allowed to vote until their choices have been predetermined for them by an opaque process.

And there are worse things than "armchair," such as the role of the big money, the corporate media, and the ossified smug nomenklatura, the 99-year hacks who run the party machines - hard workers, all.

[Dem2]

28. I don't know what point you're trying to make

[JackRiddler]

29. Maybe you don't want to.

Other countries show that it is possible to have automatic registration, open elections, and far more democratic systems.

[Dem2]

30. It's just that you're all over the place

It's not like I haven't heard these kinds of statements before, it's just that they seem somewhat random.

[JackRiddler]

33. The flaws and corruptions of the process are all over the place.

50 states, 50 different ways of fucking up the primaries.

Hundreds of interests involved in opaque ways.

Needs reform and rationalization.

You just want to put it to bed, "move on" and pretend it's ultimately for the best, so you're using standard distancing language when confronted with a problem that isn't easy or just one problem.

[Dem2]

34. I agree the "many different systems" has it's drawbacks

It also has it's advantages as we have all of these laboratories to experiment in - often lead by larger states like CA and NY. Unfortunately NY doesn't appear to be a leader in election law, which is unfortunate. But these large states DO lead in gun control reform, minimum wage=$15 and in climate change legislation etc.

We're not a perfect union, we have many areas that need improvement (election law is right up there, I agree), but it's the system we've been gifted (cursed?) with - it will not change easily, but it will change with persistence. Which is my point above, will the screaming continue after the election is over? We'll have to see - NY is not my state and my state is a partial open primary (indy's can vote in either party's primary), and I'm fine with that as I am registered unaffiliated. You probably didn't see that coming.

[ClarkJonathanKent]

3. I didn't personally catch her or her associates...

in a discussion on the matter, so no I don't. But most Democrats (and many sensible non-Democrats) believe Jeb Bush helped his brother "win" Florida in 2000 by purging likely Democratic voters and I don't recall having solid "proof" for that one. I think that if a "mistake" benefit someone who was in a position to help that mistake happen, then it is less likely to be an actual mistake. And I spread my incredulity around to all parties.

[questionseverything]

4. after watching ny today if bernie doesn't win the primary

for the first time in my life i don't know if i can vote d in the general

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511777881

[Dem2]

5. ok

Things like this never happen in elections, except they always do. But we're hyper focused on them in this cycle because the race is close and people like you are acting like you're seeing something "new" or "different". hint: you're not, this happens all the time and we get through it.

[questionseverything]

7. if what has happened in ny today happens all the time there

the election officials should be jailed and a bunch of 5th graders brought in to run the elections

it is bad enough that private corporations count our votes with no citizen oversight....that is a travesty all by itself but

this purging of voters, this caging done by supposed "democrats" is disgusting beyond belief

for days we have heard how the citizen have to know what is going on a full 6 months before the primary to be able to participate in the dem club

but the election officials that get paid to run the elections? they can be clueless and criminal and anti American individuals will defend them and the corrupt system

[JackRiddler]

21. "They always do."

Quite the admission!

How come they don't always do in Germany? (Exceptions can be found there, but far from always!)

[vintx]

13. Same.

My first vote was for Dukakis. Straight ticket since then, every election.

This shit right here though? From DWS's bullshit on through to today, has cured me of that habit.

[questionseverything]

15. makes me incredibly sad that they are so brazen about it

like they are taunting us...showing how rigged it is and there is nothing the average person can do

[vintx]

17. I live in Texas and I got used to it after Bush v Gore. Not exactly surprising to see it from them.

IYKWIM

[questionseverything]

19. i have expected illegal behavior from repubs, from dems it is harder to accept

sending bernie a donation, he has been beyond brave battling the evil

i try to be optimistic but it hard after seeing this crap today

[MoonRiver]

8. You got one thing right:

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. Have a great, losing, night.

[procon]

9. Is Hillary running the New York Board of Elections office?

Even though these are elected officials, I'm still amazed that woman has such an astounding expertise with all these hitherto unknown legerdemain skills as getting her minions elected to public office and using mind control to force them to change the records.

[jwirr]

10. Unknown? Hill and Bill have been playing the game since he

was elected in Arkansas.

[procon]

14. Getting their evil minions elected, or mind controll?

Go minions!

[uponit7771]

11. It's always hard for establishment folk to give the "others" credit for anything

[msongs]

12. the paranoid people who see cheating everywhere do not consider anyone but THEIR people can be

disenfranchised. of course when you're paranoid and believe everything on the internet is true, it does not cross ones mind that 100000 persons being dumped is highly likely to be spread across many candidates' supporters. unless one is paranoid and thinks hillary has personal knowledge of which registrant is a bernie supporter and she personally deletes them. ok

[questionseverything]

16. van knows who supports who, dnc controls van, dnc supports hc

<shrugs>

[geek tragedy]

18. More sanctimony from team sore loser nt

[MadBadger]

22. Hillary won Brooklyn 60-40

60-40! You dont think a substantial amount of those voters were her voters?

[ecstatic]

23. If 126k people were disenfranchised, that hurt Hillary's margin of victory

more than any other candidate. Was the real margin 40 points? 50? Were you under the impression that somehow only Bernie supporters were affected? I agree that there should be an investigation.

[LWolf]

25. There is no more curtain

to hide behind. In 2000, Democrats, and DU, were in loud, constant outrage over election fraud and the selection.

When they do it themselves, not so much. The ends justify the means.

Win or lose, Hillary Rodham Clinton and her supporters are not going to do anything with class or honor.

She has more than pissed off a large voting block on the left that will not show up for her in November.

[IamMab]

27. Do you have any actual evidence of cheating? Or just baseless accusations?

Don't pretend to be progressive while working out of the Karl Rove playbook, pal.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross says hi./nt

[Recursion]

32. How does Clinton benefit by purging voters in her strongest counties?

That makes little sense.