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Segami

(14,923 posts)
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:19 PM Apr 2016

WHO Is To Blame?

If you had to choose, WHO would you blame (directly or indirectly) for Al Gore losing the 2000 presidential election?



50 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
Ralph Nader
6 (12%)
Al Gore
2 (4%)
Bill Clinton
4 (8%)
SCOTUS
36 (72%)
George Bush
0 (0%)
Monica Lewinsky
0 (0%)
None of the Above
2 (4%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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WHO Is To Blame? (Original Post) Segami Apr 2016 OP
Bill Clinton. Segami Apr 2016 #1
Nader/Sarandon with Scalia a close second. (eom) oasis Apr 2016 #2
Name a stirring message the Gore campaign presented... brooklynite Apr 2016 #3
I really do put a lot of blame on those who couldn't see a difference between Bush and Gore. Zynx Apr 2016 #4
SCOTUS of course JaneyVee Apr 2016 #5
it was stolen. reddread Apr 2016 #6
Chad was hanging around as I recall. Blame Chad !! Hiraeth Apr 2016 #7
There is more than one culprit - Bush, SCOTUS, Nader, Katherine Harris, Brooks Brothers riot by Agnosticsherbet Apr 2016 #8
Right on farleftlib Apr 2016 #18
Joe Lieberman laying down for Cheney in the vp debate! MattP Apr 2016 #9
when they come for your vote.. G_j Apr 2016 #10
This is the fact of the matter in a nutshell. Aerows Apr 2016 #41
If Gore had chosen Bob Graham for VP instead of the Schmuck, cureautismnow Apr 2016 #11
Combination of 2,3 and 4. hobbit709 Apr 2016 #12
Gore. He failed to attract enough voters to secure the election. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #13
Moxie and Spunk. TheCowsCameHome Apr 2016 #14
Gore was a bad campaigner firebrand80 Apr 2016 #15
SCOTUS rock Apr 2016 #16
Supreme Court Trenzalore Apr 2016 #17
The electorate. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2016 #19
Al Gore won the popular vote so, the voters clearly did not want a republican president. nt Henhouse Apr 2016 #21
Agree. peace13 Apr 2016 #28
You need to add "Hanging Chad" and Pat Buchanon...nt Henhouse Apr 2016 #20
The Constitution delegates the right to run Presidential elections to the states Samantha Apr 2016 #22
We should not forget the Florida voter purge and Kathleen Harris. senz Apr 2016 #23
Realistically a mixture of all. hrmjustin Apr 2016 #24
SCOTUS behaved abominably but Gore would still have lost if the recount he wanted had been allowed Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #25
I believe Gore won when all was said and done. peace13 Apr 2016 #29
can we add the lovely ballot designer woman in FLorida? Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #26
There was more than one questionable move. NCTraveler Apr 2016 #27
The corporate media conglomerates. Uncle Joe Apr 2016 #30
Clinton tularetom Apr 2016 #31
No one is to blame Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2016 #32
Nader voters in FL. "Not a dimes worth of difference"? redstateblues Apr 2016 #33
I'm surprised nobody on DU has blamed Obama yet redstateblues Apr 2016 #34
I guess we don't have tea party republicans here Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #35
Anyone who blames Nader for Gore's loss is hopelessly ignorant of politics.[n/t] Maedhros Apr 2016 #36
I think Jeb played a part in it too. Ain't Karma cool? nt Live and Learn Apr 2016 #37
Nader is a myth by members of the Democratic Party neo-liberal establishment PufPuf23 Apr 2016 #38
In order: SCOTUS, Bush, Nader. baldguy Apr 2016 #39
Wrong Question. He Didn't Lose. pat_k Apr 2016 #40
Nader! He took votes out of Gore's pot that would have made the difference in 2 states. Either one Persondem Apr 2016 #42
 

Segami

(14,923 posts)
1. Bill Clinton.
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

Go to the genesis of the problem and Bill Clinton's actions totally affected the elections and voter mood change.


brooklynite

(95,538 posts)
3. Name a stirring message the Gore campaign presented...
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

He was a mediocre candidate who lost 10 States Clinton won (including his home State of TN); if he'd won any of them, Florida would have been meaningless.

Zynx

(21,328 posts)
4. I really do put a lot of blame on those who couldn't see a difference between Bush and Gore.
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:24 PM
Apr 2016

I was only 14 and the difference was plain as day.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
8. There is more than one culprit - Bush, SCOTUS, Nader, Katherine Harris, Brooks Brothers riot by
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:26 PM
Apr 2016

Congressional aids, and there were reports that Bush Srs old CIA contacts had a hand.

Trying to affix blame to one person is an attempt to create a fictional narrative.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
18. Right on
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 02:00 PM
Apr 2016

Your list is comprehensive and I'm sure there's more we don't know.

I knew we weren't in Kansas anymore when the M$M flipped FL from Gore
to Bush. There's plenty of blame to go around and they all deserve it.

MattP

(3,304 posts)
9. Joe Lieberman laying down for Cheney in the vp debate!
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:28 PM
Apr 2016

Could have swung at least a couple thousand in Florida

G_j

(40,373 posts)
10. when they come for your vote..
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:32 PM
Apr 2016
http://commondreams.org/views/2016/04/20/when-they-come-our-vote?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

By Hank Edson

People supporting Hillary Clinton often compare the “Bernie or Bust” movement to Ralph Nader’s third party campaign in the 2000 election, angrily accusing Sanders supporters in advance of handing the election to the Republican Party’s worst candidate ever. But a progressive challenge to the Democratic Party’s weak nominee is not the aspect of the 2000 election that ought to be remembered in 2016.

What should be remembered is the failure of Al Gore to fight against the political corruption in Florida, the GOP, and the Supreme Court. Florida, the GOP, and the Supreme Court stole the presidency from Al Gore and he never should have conceded the election, not even when two corrupt Supreme Court justices, Scalia and Thomas, failed to properly recuse themselves from participating in the hearing of Bush v. Gore, and the Supreme Court mangled the law in order to put their political preference in the White House, the integrity of our democracy be damned.

Gore's decision to give up did not turn out to be, as he hoped, for the good of the country. We paid dearly for our failure and for Gore’s failure to keep fighting. We should have been out in the streets. We should have surrounded the Supreme Court with tens of thousands of protesters. We should have demanded impeachment hearings for Scalia and Thomas. We should have demanded executive branch action from Bill Clinton. Had we stopped what we were doing, filled the streets of our nation and refused to go about business as normal, more than a million people would not have been killed in the Iraq War. Just think of that. It sounds extreme, but where is the line when theft of the people's government requires the citizenry to stand together to stop it? What consequences must we face before we demand unambiguous integrity in our political process?

Instead, of taking a stand in 2000, we allowed a coup d’état, a forced takeover of the people’s democracy. We sat by and watched. And we know what ensued: Manufactured evidence to drive our nation into am imperialistic war of aggression littered with every kind of war crime, more than a million dead, and the funneling of trillions of dollars of our tax payers' wealth into the industrial-arms complex. We had a right to stop society still in its tracks for as long as it took for justice to prevail and our vote to be restored. We, and Gore, preferred not to fight and this is the mistake we must learn from.

..more..
 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
41. This is the fact of the matter in a nutshell.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 09:29 PM
Apr 2016
What should be remembered is the failure of Al Gore to fight against the political corruption in Florida, the GOP, and the Supreme Court.


In all honesty, I think Gore was either threatened in some way or paid off to do absolutely jack shit to contest the election results.

We can wave hanging chads and sound a chorus of Nader yelling all day long, but ultimately, it was Gore that gave up on us.

cureautismnow

(1,680 posts)
11. If Gore had chosen Bob Graham for VP instead of the Schmuck,
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:35 PM
Apr 2016

Lieberman, Florida would have never been close. Still, 5 members of SCOTUS committed treason to hand the selection to the Chimp.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
12. Combination of 2,3 and 4.
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:41 PM
Apr 2016

If Gore didn't have all the Clinton baggage and ran a more inspiring campaign, it never would have gotten to SCOTUS.

And for all those that want to blame Nader in Florida, more so-called Democrats voted for Bush there than voted for Nader.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
13. Gore. He failed to attract enough voters to secure the election.
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 01:03 PM
Apr 2016

It's not the obligation of the voters to convince the candidate to support them. It's the obligation of the candidate to convince the voters to vote for him/her.

He failed to do that.

rock

(13,218 posts)
16. SCOTUS
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 01:51 PM
Apr 2016

Without looking at a single ballot (the voter's choice) they declared the winner. Psychic or Psycho? You decide.

Trenzalore

(2,331 posts)
17. Supreme Court
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 01:54 PM
Apr 2016

However Gore ran away from the success he was a part of for 8 years and bought into the right wing narrative about Clinton.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
19. The electorate.
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 02:11 PM
Apr 2016

1,2,4,5 all contributed, but ultimately, the problem was that lots of Americans wanted a Republican president.

Also slightly the founding fathers, for not having the presidency decided by popular vote.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
28. Agree.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:21 PM
Apr 2016

He won even with all of the thievery. I don't understand why people say he lost. They stole it from him.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
22. The Constitution delegates the right to run Presidential elections to the states
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 02:33 PM
Apr 2016

as long as the rules are outlined in the state constitution. In Florida, about a year or two or so before Election 2000 a mayoral race was overturned and the person occupying that chair was ejected and the opposition party installed. The latter had filed a lawsuit and won.

Florida revised its State constitution over this. When Election 2000 became a controversy, the Bush* campaign was using the superseded rules; the Gore campaign was using the new and correct rules.

The Florida State Supreme Court should have had the last word on that election. "The right to vote is paramount." It opened its finding with those words ordering a recount to continue. That should have been it.

The United States Supreme Court had zero standing to interfere. But once it jumped in, the laws it cited for halting the recount were laughable on their face. That Safe Harbor law was written right after this Country was formed. States sent their slate of electors to the Electoral College via Pony Express. Often the slates were late for the count. Thus a deadline was set for states to dispatch their Pony Express riders so that the votes would be received in a timely manner. So an approximately two-hundred year old obsolete law was used to discredit The Florida Supreme Court's decision -- rendered at the turn into the 21st Century. That alone is stunningly absurd.

That equal weight argument is also a manufactured legal argument. The Court held to allow the recount to continue and to incorporate the votes of those who had been unsuccessful in voting the first round would give those recounted votes more weight than those originally cast. And that would be unfair to those who had successfully voted the first round. That was the second justification used. It was more than fair to George Bush but less than fair to Al Gore and and a middle finger to those who had been disenfranchised in Florida.

The official final count for Bush gave him a margin of 537 votes. In preserving that margin for Bush in Florida, the Supreme Court effectively nullified the national popular vote margin of 540,000 votes Gore won. In my opinion, those were the voters whose votes did not receive an "equal weight" as a result of the Supreme Court's unconstitutional intervention. In other words, "we was robbed" and the impact to the Country and parts of the world was indeed a heavy price considering the administrations in office Bush* conducted.

We are still to this day trying to recover from the damage and will be for years to come.

Sam

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
23. We should not forget the Florida voter purge and Kathleen Harris.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 05:56 PM
Apr 2016

The Repubs were planning to do it.

That's how (ahem) righties operate.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
25. SCOTUS behaved abominably but Gore would still have lost if the recount he wanted had been allowed
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:17 PM
Apr 2016

to go ahead, so can't really blame it for Gore losing.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm

Biggest problem was Gore's prudishness in keeping Bill Clinton at a distance in his campaign because of the Lewinsky scandal. Related to this was his choice of Joe Lieberman as VP. And of course Nader screwed him in FL.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
26. can we add the lovely ballot designer woman in FLorida?
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:19 PM
Apr 2016

whose name escapes me..something about butterfly ballots and hanging chads is swirling in my brain

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
27. There was more than one questionable move.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:21 PM
Apr 2016

I voted Gore for one simple reason. He had yet to exhaust all options. Get that. Knowingly not exhausting all options knowing Chenney is about to become President is not acceptable.

I like Gore but those weren't some of his finest moments.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
31. Clinton
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 06:36 PM
Apr 2016

I don't know if it's totally his fault, but I just dislike him enough to blame him for everything.

PufPuf23

(8,951 posts)
38. Nader is a myth by members of the Democratic Party neo-liberal establishment
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 07:16 PM
Apr 2016

that like to hippie punch and scapegoat the liberals.

Supreme Court, leadership of the Democratic Party, and GOP flacks and operatives that deliberately sabotaged the vote.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
40. Wrong Question. He Didn't Lose.
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 08:57 PM
Apr 2016

Whose responsible for the stealing the election? In this order:

1. Florida for appointing electors pursuant to an unlawful election.

2. SCOTUS for ensuring the electors were unlawful by stopping the recount.

3. Gore for conceding to an unlawful result.

4. Congress for failing to fulfill their duty to judge the legality of the electors, and throw out the unlawfully appointed Florida electors.



Ultimately, it was Congress the put the nail in the coffin. In Bush v. Gore, Justice Breyer told the nation -- and Gore -- exactly what needed to happen. As he noted in his dissent, the Electoral Count Act makes it the duty of Congress to ultimately resolve such a situation. In quoting the legislative history, he cites that:

They can only count legal votes, and in doing so must determine, from the best evidence to be had, what are legal votes…


And further that:

The power to judge of the legality of the votes is a necessary consequent of the power to count. The existence of this power is of absolute necessity to the preservation of the Government."

Bush v. Gore, J.Breyer dissent (11) December 12, 2000


Justice Breyer was explicitly instructing Congress as to what their duty was -- to object to, and reject, the unlawfully appointed Florida electors on January 6th, 2001.

If he respected the rule of law, Gore would have called on Congress to do it's duty.

You expect crooks to be crooks: Kathryn Harris, SCOTUS majority. But when the "good guys" betray the us by turning a blind eye theft, we are in deep shit. And 2004 marked a turning point for this nation when we allowed an election to be stolen in plain sight.

Persondem

(1,937 posts)
42. Nader! He took votes out of Gore's pot that would have made the difference in 2 states. Either one
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 10:02 PM
Apr 2016

of which would have given Gore the election. If Nader ain't there, Gore wins. SCOTUS was late to the party and did what it was expected to do (screw Gore).

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