2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMost Hillary voters back her as a vote against the alternative rather than as a vote for her
NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey April 10-14
(Prior question: "Thinking again about the 2016 presidential election... if the election for president were held today, and Donald Trump were the Republican candidate and Hillary Clinton were the Democratic candidate, for whom would you vote?"
Next question: "Are you voting for that person more because you want that person to be president...or...more because you do NOT want the other person to be president?"
50% of registered voters who back Hillary say it's more because they don't want Trump
33% of registered voters who back Hillary say it's more because they want Hillary
Asked earlier in the same survey--
Among registered voters overall
58% could NOT see themselves supporting Hillary Clinton
48% could NOT see themselves supporting Bernie Sanders
41% could see themselves supporting Hillary Clinton
49% could see themselves supporting Bernie Sanders
31% could see themselves supporting Donald Trump
68% could NOT see themselves supporting Donald Trump
Among registered voters who had or were planning to vote in the Dem primary:
78% could see themselves supporting Hillary (21% could not)
78% could see themselves supporting Bernie (21% could not)
http://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/16229NBCWSJApril2016Poll.pdf
Take Home Message:
Bernie is the more electable candidate among registered voters of all political persuasians.
runaway hero
(835 posts)ever...
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)They refused to listen.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)
320 million people and this is all we can do. Where are the leaders of tomorrow? What happened to the promise for the new millennium?
reformist2
(9,841 posts)We selfishly vote in who we want (it's our party, dammit!), with no mind to what the average voter thinks of that candidate. But no matter. We'll just make them vote for our candidate in the general by demonizing the opponent.
Is this any way to elect our leaders?
runaway hero
(835 posts)What a joke. I'll will not be surprised if people stay home. Clinton will most likely win but both her and Trump will get less votes then Romney and Obama did.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)The whole idea is killing hope, killing voter interest. Tiring everybody out, Without being too obvious about it.
>It's party politics that's killing voter interest. We don't pick people that appeal to the majority.
Reducing expectations to zero. Keeping energetic people who want any real change out.
I'm sure both parties are doing this.
Logical
(22,457 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)If we want people to vote in HUGE numbers, they should want to vote FOR something rather than against.
Add to the fact that it will give HUGE coat-tail's towards getting a Democratic Senate and House.
Seriously isn't "good enough" the HRC Campaign slogan for godsake?!
Baobab
(4,667 posts)It might lead to them failing, and then Presidents in the future could just dump these policies that are the corporations want. The 3FTAs are a global takeover scheme, for the 1% so they have to pass.
Once they do nothing Presidents or congress do will be able to change the policies they will be carved in stone, forever.
CAFTA was passed during the lame duck at something like 2 am by one vote. That's the plan with TPP too. The illusion of incompetence is what they want. Plausible deniability.
Read up on the "Reading rooms" they have.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)He wasn't even more electable than Clinton (he seems to have lost the primary, and he would have lost much bigger if not for caucuses)
Whatever polls are showing, at this point the RWNM has not thrown all that much at him. They are busy trying to derail Hillary.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)He has continually picked up support while Hillary has lost it.
If some of those primaries he lost were held today, he would have done much better than he did.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)"He was swift-boated" "His message took a while to catch on".
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)With Kasich he would bash him over the head on "Women's Rights" and "Labor" so continually Kasich wouldn't have a chance to get up. Sanders can bomb the airwaves with how Kasich is a giant fraud, just laying out the record. You know what they say about the spotlight when it comes on? The cockroaches scatter and sunlight is the most powerful disinfectant.
Cruz is a trainwreck in so many things...vehemently Anti-Gay, Anti-Choice, Anti-anyone who's not Christian(probably like 99% of the Muslim community would go for Sanders as well as the Sikh's since Ted is so stupid he would probably call them Muslims too), Pro-War(he advocated cluster-bombing ffs), likely Pro-Israel since he's a right-wing Evangelical.
With Trump it's not difficult, he just asserts the positions Trumps already has with a STRONG message of inclusion rather than exclusion. I think his ardent opposition to TPP, NAFTA and the TTIP will endear him to some of those Blue Collars who thought they would be on board with Trump. Legalizing Pot and pushing hard on Green Jobs as an investment in mucho infrastructure talking about well-paying jobs will help again.
I forgot to add there is no way they can really get him over gun rights either when you look at his record. This will help him tremendously among pro-gun rights people across the spectrum, Republican and Democrat. I mean we've been waiting for someone who can GET real gun control done and come across as sensible to the Pro-Gun people.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Sanders' will win by a wide margin against Trump.
Many people who are voting for Trump say its just to stop Hillary.
Her negatives are very high. Allegedly the superdelegate system - we have a system in place that is supposed to be a reality check against crooks who somehow get a lot of votes, lets use it to elect Bernie instead of "Miss Leading" so we can prevent what will likely be a major disaster..
Nobody believes a word she says any more.
Once somebody is dislikes this much they are unlikely to make a comeback. making promises everybody knows are BS just makes it worse, People aren't that stupid.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Very few people in this country will expect for anything good to happen over the next decade.
Demoralized, dejected, and feeling like those in power do not represent them. Exactly as TPTB want it. They are going to FEAST on us. If we let them.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)With or without Bernie, it's up to us to stop the downhill drop and lobby to implement the New, New Deal this country so desperately needs.
Post that contains thoughs on approach to effecting change:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=188164
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)But it's not enough! Not even close. My city has 4% unemployment and 24% poverty. A new president needs to restore the safety net formerly known as welfare and make massive investments in the regions that have been most affested by mass incarceration especially.
Bring those things part of the platform and I might gain some respect. Until then she is simply the callous woman who pointed to a need to "bring them to heel" and used the "we came, we saw, he died" victory cry.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)is evidence to my mind of their thinking. I will vote for her if she is the primary winner, but it will be under duress
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)The fact that no serious opponent from within the party even bothered to put their hat into the ring this time around, when it was the first time in 8 years for a chance at the office to open up, was astonishing.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)She and her corporate ownership team are not going to let some upstart progressive derail their process of sucking every last nickel out of the 99% and delivering it to the 1%.
In the meantime, her unpopularity will cause MASSIVE midterm losses, and even more gridlock, but she doesn't care - the status quo plutocracy will continue unabated, which is all they REALLY care about.
How many millions will be enough for HRC, Bill, & lil' Chelsea? The world may never know. One thing for sure, they will be even richer in 8 years than they are now (which is filthy rich, "earned" thru political extortion). Sure, we may get some small victories on social issues, but economically we are going to get fucked over as bad or worse than any time since Carter.
I'm sure the corporate wing of the Democratic party is very excited...
reformist2
(9,841 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)the money will be huge.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Hillary will win easily over Trump.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)not actually in support of Hillary.
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/category/politics/election-2016/
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Just remember this. So if and when your candidate wins on election night, while you're cheering and all excited, the vast majority of the American people will be turning off their TVs (or computers, or phones) in complete and utter disgust.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)I don't think he fully understands policy as Hillary does.
PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)Regime change(Syria, Libya, Honduras)?! Oh yes, give me more of that! I can't WAIT to go to war with Iran and see god knows how many of our sons and daughters die.
These policies are idiotic and don't WORK, they didn't work when we tried to help throw out Mossadegh, Allende, Chavez, etc. Instead we made things worse, especially in the Middle East. Could you imagine what a DEMOCRATIC Iran could've done to help stabilize the area and we could've cut our ties to the MESS that is Saudia Arabia.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)I thought you were serious for a second. I doubt there is anyone that actually believes that line.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)That is even a better one, I forgot people were using that lie a while back, too bad we all know about the third way and her long list of Republican supporters endorsing her from Huckabee, the Koch brothers, and several lobbyists. It was funny as hell when they tired that line out, thanks for reminding me.
Response to TheDormouse (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Trump or Cruz being President, and I wouldn't mind Bernie as President -- so then I would be counted as someone who just doesn't want Trump. Makes no sense.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)It is also why both Larry and Obama talked smack about her at the WHCD last night.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)100% name recognition
Well-known candidate in the public eye for 25 years
"58% could NOT see themselves supporting Hillary Clinton
41% could see themselves supporting Hillary Clinton"
How do you move those numbers? This candidate has a ceiling of 42%.