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Human101948

(3,457 posts)
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:43 AM May 2016

NBC News Poll Shows Hillary Weak...



Trump Leads Clinton in Hypothetical Hoosier State Match-Up

In a hypothetical general-election matchup, Trump is ahead of Clinton by seven points among registered voters in this traditionally Republican state, 48 percent to 41 percent.

But Trump's lead is just one point when matched up against Bernie Sanders, 47 percent to 46 percent.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/donald-trump-leads-cruz-15-points-crucial-indiana-race-n565356



If she can't bury Bernie, how will she ever beat Trump?

P.S.--Margin of error for Dem voters is 4.6%
47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NBC News Poll Shows Hillary Weak... (Original Post) Human101948 May 2016 OP
Because Trump is not promising $18 trillion in new entitlement spending. Sanders popularity is not Trust Buster May 2016 #1
that's not the draw AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #3
How naive. When someone tells you it's not about the money, rest assured it's about the money. Trust Buster May 2016 #4
"When someone tells you it's not about the money, rest assured it's about the money - unless it's DebDoo May 2016 #32
Hillary? Money? Bwhahahahaa! Katashi_itto May 2016 #38
Exactly correct Ferd Berfel May 2016 #9
You're figures are incorrect and you are mimicking a Republican meme... Human101948 May 2016 #8
You claim to be a Democrat then use the word entitlement artislife May 2016 #35
Go to the dictionary and read the definition of the term entitlement. I used it properly. Trust Buster May 2016 #41
Frank Luntz recommends the word entitlement because it has a negative connotation... Human101948 May 2016 #43
Hm. I seem to remember hearing this question before. Oh, yes -- I recall now. Buzz Clik May 2016 #2
President Obama lost IN to Rmoney in 012 by 12. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #5
It would be nice to nominate the person who could more likely win more states. thesquanderer May 2016 #42
Wait, we are worrying about Indiana in the GE? apnu May 2016 #6
I think she will win Indiana... Demsrule86 May 2016 #7
She probably will, but doesn't have to win any more states. apnu May 2016 #12
PBO won it in 08 by .03 and lost it by 12 in 012 DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #10
Right, so the odds Of Indiana swinging left are pretty long. (nt) apnu May 2016 #13
Now you're throwing Hoosiers under the bus with the Confederate States? Human101948 May 2016 #17
WTF? I said Conservative, not Conferderate. apnu May 2016 #18
The GOP hasn't even attempted to "bury Bernie". sufrommich May 2016 #11
Get out the tinfoil, Marge! Human101948 May 2016 #15
The GOP is in quick sand CobaltBlue May 2016 #28
How would Bernie beat Trump if he can't beat Hillary? JoePhilly May 2016 #14
He gets 100 percent of Independent voters!!!!!!! Yes, I've read that here. grossproffit May 2016 #19
And 200% of the millennials. JoePhilly May 2016 #21
Sanders is already buried. She can focus on Trump now. n/t livetohike May 2016 #16
Yet, he's still campaigning. They're going to need a hook to yank him off stage. grossproffit May 2016 #20
He has a point he has to make! Same point for the last 25 years. livetohike May 2016 #26
Unlike Hillary who changes her positions more often than someone speed reading the Kama Sutra... Human101948 May 2016 #46
His voters are not CobaltBlue May 2016 #31
And lose in the GE. nt artislife May 2016 #36
It's an open primary DetroitSocialist83 May 2016 #22
Demographically, Indiana is pretty friendly to Sanders. Adrahil May 2016 #23
Indiana is favorable to the progressive over the centrist? Since when? Yurovsky May 2016 #25
The maps don't lie KingFlorez May 2016 #27
Like Seattle. artislife May 2016 #37
Exceptions prove the rule. Garrett78 May 2016 #40
Hey, thanks for starting our conversation with an insult. Adrahil May 2016 #30
Sanders has already won the 4 'reddest' states in the US. Garrett78 May 2016 #34
She already buried Bernie. The rest of this is a formality. Zynx May 2016 #24
Fight for it anyway, Hillary. That's what you do best. Never give up! nt Jitter65 May 2016 #29
A primary election not the same as a general election... beachbumbob May 2016 #33
If she's so weak, how did she beat Bernie?...nt SidDithers May 2016 #39
Well, 30 years of being in the limelight helped her eke out a meager margin of victory.... Human101948 May 2016 #47
It appears that there's someone weaker than Clinton... brooklynite May 2016 #44
Is that a serious question? Because Bernie is a much better person than the Donald. pnwmom May 2016 #45
 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
1. Because Trump is not promising $18 trillion in new entitlement spending. Sanders popularity is not
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:47 AM
May 2016

hard to figure out. $$$$$$$$$

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
3. that's not the draw
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:50 AM
May 2016

the draw is that Sanders promises to put the brakes on the swamp of corruption in DC

and those votes will not be convertible with HRC as the nominee - she's exactly what these voters don't want

anti-corruption is the #1 need in this country today... nothing else can get done in a system so deeply undermined by conflict of interest

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
4. How naive. When someone tells you it's not about the money, rest assured it's about the money.
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:54 AM
May 2016

The OP asked, if Hillary has a tough time with Sanders, how can she beat Trump ? Answer: Trump is not traveling from college campus to college campus offering naive students trillions in benefits. That's the big elephant in the room irrespective of your Sargeant Shultz routine.

DebDoo

(319 posts)
32. "When someone tells you it's not about the money, rest assured it's about the money - unless it's
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:39 AM
May 2016

Hillary?

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
9. Exactly correct
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:01 AM
May 2016

the clinton crowd is operating with the blinders on... after it's too late - they still won't get it. They will just blame everyone else for her loss.
'

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
8. You're figures are incorrect and you are mimicking a Republican meme...
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:00 AM
May 2016
Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion

From guess where...

The Wall Street Journal!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511

Then this faulty meme gained traction was people like you who embraced and repeated the Republican lies...

The Wall Street Journal gets whacked: How its Bernie Sanders hit piece completely backfired
...the program would involve spending $15 trillion over a decade. But they left out the key detail: it would actually save the country a total $5 trillion over those 10 years. We’d see those savings in reduced administrative waste, lower pharmaceutical and device prices, and by decreasing the rate of medical inflation.

Because the simple fact is: We, as a people, are going to spend that $15 trillion on health care anyway. The difference is that under the current model, we pay that money to private insurance companies. And those private companies have much higher levels of administrative costs, fraud and general waste than Medicare does. Another difference is that the government would be negotiating drug prices, making drugs more affordable for everyone.

And who would see that $5 trillion in savings? Businesses for one. Along with state and local governments. Because they wouldn’t have to pay for their employees’ insurance — who’d be covered by Medicare for All.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/24/the_wall_street_journal_gets_whacked_how_its_bernie_sanders_hit_piece_completely_backfired_partner/

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
43. Frank Luntz recommends the word entitlement because it has a negative connotation...
Mon May 2, 2016, 07:06 AM
May 2016

Republicans have been working to convert the once-neutral "entitlement" label into a negative to make it easier for Congress to cut social programs.

While an entitlement used to be a positive — indicating a citizen's right to the benefits of a program they paid into — the term is now used to portray social spending that's out of control...

....Some Democrats have argued they should call Social Security and Medicare "earned benefits" programs instead of "entitlements." But it never caught on. And now Republicans have framed the debate.

http://theweek.com/articles/465537/entitlement-dirty-word

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
2. Hm. I seem to remember hearing this question before. Oh, yes -- I recall now.
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:47 AM
May 2016

Every day at DU for the past six months.

Thanks for keeping the streak alive!

thesquanderer

(12,141 posts)
42. It would be nice to nominate the person who could more likely win more states.
Sun May 1, 2016, 01:47 PM
May 2016

Indiana is a long shot for the general, but not impossible. If Hillary beats Bernie in Indiana, it just means that the Dems in Indiana are supporting the Dem who would be less likely to carry Indiana in November. But that's what I feel the whole race has been like, Dems supporting the nomination of the candidate who will be weaker against Trump. Luckily, I think either Dem would beat Trump, but I think Bernie would beat him more handily, possibly carrying more states and then more congressional representatives on his coattails. Head-to-head polling, unfavorability ratings, and the lack of an investigation hanging over his head all favor Bernie as the stronger candidate for the general. But, we'll get what we get, and it will almost certainly be Hillary, and she should at least be good enough to win.

apnu

(8,779 posts)
6. Wait, we are worrying about Indiana in the GE?
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:56 AM
May 2016

When was the last time Indiana was in play for the Democrats and we needed that state's Electorial Votes?

apnu

(8,779 posts)
12. She probably will, but doesn't have to win any more states.
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:04 AM
May 2016

She can lose every single one, and still collect enough pledged delegates to win, never mind the superdelegates.

However, the OP brought up the GE and Trump, like it matters now, and that IN, might suddenly have a pole shift from conservative to liberal. Which, I see as a fantasy, as there is no evidence of Indiana's liberalization.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,799 posts)
10. PBO won it in 08 by .03 and lost it by 12 in 012
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:02 AM
May 2016

Off the top of my head I believe the last time IN went blue at the presidential level was 1964 and before that 1940!!!

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
17. Now you're throwing Hoosiers under the bus with the Confederate States?
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:10 AM
May 2016

The everchanging tune...

apnu

(8,779 posts)
18. WTF? I said Conservative, not Conferderate.
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:20 AM
May 2016

But Indiana did give safe harbor to the KKK when they were first run out of the South and that allowd them to stage a comeback in the 1950s.

Indiana has its sins and they are many.

 

CobaltBlue

(1,122 posts)
28. The GOP is in quick sand
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:25 AM
May 2016

And those who try to make an argument that Hillary can, but Bernie cannot, win are dishonest. (And I am using that word kindly.) The Republicans, as we see with their primaries (as played out so far), are in a world of trouble. The fact that their voters are nominating Donald Trump tells us all what self-identified Republicans think of their party.

livetohike

(22,355 posts)
26. He has a point he has to make! Same point for the last 25 years.
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:19 AM
May 2016

People at the convention will be falling asleep.

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
46. Unlike Hillary who changes her positions more often than someone speed reading the Kama Sutra...
Mon May 2, 2016, 08:31 AM
May 2016

"I was wrong on that vote."

"I changed my thinking."

"The republicans made me do it."

Hillary Clinton has a propensity to change her mind on big issues. She has reversed her positions on gay marriage, immigration, gun control, the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact, mass incarceration and the Iraq War, and some believe her recent stand on the Keystone XL pipeline constitutes a flip, too.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-flip-flop-213247#ixzz47V7yeKEB
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
 

CobaltBlue

(1,122 posts)
31. His voters are not
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:33 AM
May 2016

Hillary Clinton bombs with the two youngest voting-age groups: 17–/18–29 and 30–44. For Bernie Sanders to lose any states to Hillary and still carry the youngest age group by 3-to-1 (like Massachusetts and New York) or 4-to-1 (like Illinois and Pennsylvania) long after the first two states—Iowa and New Hampshire (again, 80 percent or more from this age group)—should inform anyone shilling for Hillary that she has her work to do for them. (No party frontrunner should be losing one’s party’s No. 1 voting-age base—the only one which carried nationally in 2004 for John Kerry—that badly.)

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
23. Demographically, Indiana is pretty friendly to Sanders.
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:11 AM
May 2016

If he can't win in a state that's favorable to him like Indiana, how is he going to beat Trump?

See, I can make ridiculous nonsequitur arguments too.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
25. Indiana is favorable to the progressive over the centrist? Since when?
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:17 AM
May 2016

You HRC supporters just spew nonsense regardless of the truth.

Indiana is perhaps the reddest state in the Midwest. How the hell is that "favorable" to Bernie? This is just like next-level cray-cray... Do you have any idea what the electoral map looked like the past half-dozen GEs? Or, let me guess, just making it up as you go along....

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
27. The maps don't lie
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:20 AM
May 2016

Sanders best performances in primaries have been mostly in the rural and more conservative areas of states, while Clinton performs better in more liberal and Democratic areas. The exception is Wisconsin, but he still won conservative counties there too. Look at a damn map and learn something about politics before flying off the handle and calling people crazy.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
30. Hey, thanks for starting our conversation with an insult.
Sun May 1, 2016, 11:29 AM
May 2016

Let me start with saying I live in Indiana. The state has an AA population of less than 10%. Based on the historical performance, that favors Sanders. Also, the states Democratic populations are concentrated in 5 areas..... Indianapolis, Bloomington, West Lafayette, Muncie, and the Gary/Chicagoland area. 3 of those areas are University towns (Bloomington, West Lafayette, and Muncie) and Indy is not as Democratic as many big cities. It is a majority white city. AA's make up only about 28% of the population in Indy. As someone active in Democratic politics in the state, I can tell you that while we are definitely outnumbered by the Republicans here (I live in Mike Pence's old district... blech!), the party itself is pretty progressive.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
34. Sanders has already won the 4 'reddest' states in the US.
Sun May 1, 2016, 12:29 PM
May 2016

Indiana has an open primary and is 84% white. So, yes, it's a state he should win. As I've pointed out numerous times throughout this campaign, the Clinton-Red State meme takes reality and flips it on its head. Look at Romney's margin of victory in each of the states he won in 2012:

1) Utah: 48 points
2) Wyoming: 41 points
3) Oklahoma: 34 points
4) Idaho: 32 points
5) West Virginia: 27 points
6) Arkansas: 24 points
7) Nebraska: 23 points
8) Kentucky: 22 points (22.7)
9) Alabama: 22 points (22.3)
10) Kansas: 22 points (22.2)
11) Tennessee: 20 points (20.5)
12) North Dakota: 20 points (19.8)
13) South Dakota: 18 points
14) Louisiana: 17 points
15) Texas: 16 points
16) Alaska: 14 points (14.0)
17) Montana: 14 points (13.5)
18) Mississippi: 12 points
19) South Carolina: 11 points (10.6)
20) Indiana: 11 points (10.5)
21) Arizona: 10 points (10.1)
22) Missouri: 10 points (9.6)
23) Georgia: 8 points
24) North Carolina: 2 points

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
47. Well, 30 years of being in the limelight helped her eke out a meager margin of victory....
Mon May 2, 2016, 08:35 AM
May 2016

over an unknown Senator who was 60 points behind when this started.

I would say that is very weak.

pnwmom

(109,170 posts)
45. Is that a serious question? Because Bernie is a much better person than the Donald.
Mon May 2, 2016, 08:23 AM
May 2016

Of course Dems have more trouble choosing between them -- their positions are not that far apart.

But they won't have any trouble choosing between Hillary and any of the Rethugs.

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