2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary did nothing wrong with the emails - it is a republican smear campaign
like they did with John Kerry when they swiftboarded him. Facts be damned.
like they did with Obama when they said he was not born here, but in Kenya. Facts be damned.
like they did with Jimmy Carter, when they purportedly made a deal with Iran to free hostages as soon as Reagan took office.
here is ABCs report - people should stop quoting right-wing sites gleefully. Your heads will spin with the crap these sites make up about Bernie if he became the nominee.
ABC News detailed a final State Department investigation which concluded that past secretaries of state, including Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice's immediate staff, "handled classified material on unclassified email systems." The findings come as the FBI investigates a private email server used by Hillary Clinton during her time as secretary of state.
For months, conservative media figures have attacked Clinton, baselessly accusing her of wrongdoing for receiving State Department emails on her private email account while secretary of state. On February 4, reports emerged that Colin Powell and aides to Condoleezza Rice also used private email accounts when they served under former President George W. Bush, and some of their emails similarly contained information that was retroactively classified.
The March 4 ABC News article reported that "a final memorandum" issued by "[t]he State Department's internal investigation arm" found that former secretaries of state "handled classified material on unclassified email systems." The State Department found that emails handled on private email accounts associated with Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice contain "information classified at the Secret or Confidential levels.'" Former Secretary Powell responded that those identified emails were not marked "'Confidential at the time and they were sent as unclassified,'" seemingly underscoring Secretary Clinton's defense that "the State Department is classifying documents too aggressively" (emphasis added):
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/07/state-dept-concludes-past-secretaries-of-state/209044
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The FBI didn't investigate Kerry or Obama. They are investigating Clinton.
If you can pull your head out of the sand you'll realize the huge difference and why it is so.
dchill
(38,474 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Republican and radical bernista smear campaign.
840high
(17,196 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)IF There is ANY Justice left in America, THIS INVESTIGATION... NOT inquiry... Will NOT End Well For Hillary!!!!
Arneoker
(375 posts)Please provide your information to the FBI. Then they would have no reason to pursue the investigation!
Otherwise why think the likelihood of any real problems for Hillary is any greater than the likelihood that the Obama Administration directed the IRS to target conservative groups for harassment?
I know that lots of folks want to believe both...
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)There would be no investigation under a Democratic president otherwise. It was too much to ignore.
No worries, though. Pres Obama Admin has declined to prosecute Bush/Cheney for torture and the banks for blowing up the economy. There's no question she screwed up. The question is what are they going to do about it.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)way to sound like Fox News.
bjo59
(1,166 posts)recommendation. If they make a recommendation you don't like you can then demand that they prove it or tell them that their recommendation is based on hate.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)which will then issue a report.
If you don't like that, you can continue to lie about it.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Just like they tricked her into voting for the iraq war!
k8conant
(3,030 posts)If Powell or Rice did something wrong, so did Hillary and 2000 times over.
Facts be damned?
That looks like what Hillary's supporters are trying to do.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)server was not in their home. It was on government property. Hers was in her home.
2cannan
(344 posts)snip
March 3, 2015: A Clinton aide makes misleading comparisons to previous secretaries of state. An unnamed Clinton aide says about Clinton's use of a private email account and server, "Nothing nefarious was at play. She had a BlackBerry, she used it prior to State, and like her predecessors she continued to use it when she got to State." (Politico, 3/3/2015) However, a week later, The Wall Street Journal will report that Condoleezza Rice, Clinton's predecessor as secretary of state, had a government email account and no private email account for work-related matters. Rice only used the account occasionally, but she did use it. (Wall Street Journal, 3/10/2015) Furthermore, Rice did not use a BlackBerry or similar device. (Ars Technica, 3/17/2016) Earlier secretaries of state did not use BlackBerrys and did not use private email accounts for government work. (ABC News, 3/4/2016)
http://thompsontimeline.com/The_Clinton_Email_Scandal_-_Long_Version_-_Part_4
August 2015: Secretary of State Powell received two classified emails, but under very different circumstances than Clinton. Clinton's personal lawyer David Kendall writes a letter to the State Department claiming that Clinton's "use of personal email was consistent with the practices of other secretaries of state." Kendall points in particular to Colin Powell, who appears to be the only other secretary of state to use a private email account while in office. But Powell had a government email account in addition to private one. According to The Washington Post, "Powell conducted virtually all of his classified communications on paper or over a State Department computer installed on his desk that was reserved for classified information, according to interviews." He also had a phone line installed in his office solely to link to his private email account, which he generally used for personal or non-classified communication. The State Department's inspector general did find that Powell's personal email account had received two emails from staff that contained "national security information classified at the 'secret' or 'confidential' levels." (The Washington Post, 3/27/2016) It will later come out that the two emails were at the lowest 'confidential' level and did not actually contain any intelligence but were classified for other reasons. (ABC News, 3/4/2016)
http://thompsontimeline.com/The_Clinton_Email_Scandal_-_Long_Version_-_Part_5
brush
(53,771 posts)Years and years and years of it. It's Benghaziesque already.
For God's sake, how long has this so-called investigation been going on, and nothing, absolutely nothing?
If there was going to be an FBI indictment it would've happened already.
Put your prayer beads away, folks.
Sanders is not getting the nomination as Hillary is perp-walked away in cuffs.
I know that's a glorious image for you guys to envision, but sorry to burst your bubble, it ain't gonna happen.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)The biggest difference is the ten year Statute of Limitations in criminal prosecution under the Espionage Act.
brush
(53,771 posts)It still ain't gonna happen.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Look up CIA Director John Deutch. That's the template for handling this sort of thing.
brush
(53,771 posts)Sanders has already lost the nomination and you seem to believe that Trump is the guy that will beat her.
The guy that masqueraded as his own publicist on phone calls to media outlets to brag about his many sexual conquests (the audio of it is clear and it's all over the media now).
There's also the sexist pronouncements from the "Howard Stern Show" back in the '90s (audio also available).
And the ski trip to Colorado with his then wife Ivanka, and Marla Maples secretly tucked away in another room (see NY POST front page back in the day).
There's all kinds of stuff on Trump still to come out. The ads write themselves
Yeah, this guy with a history of being a walking insult to women is the one you think more people will vote for for president?
And then there's all the current stuff documented on videos of the "Mexicans are criminals and rapists", the vows to export 11 million people people who are related to the largest minority voting block in the country, then there are the vows to ban Muslims from entering the country, the description of Megan Kelly as having blood coming out of her eyes and who knows where else. Women will love that ad .
This is the guy you think is going to beat Clinton? Hah!
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)the Server was under the control of the commercial email service provider. The email account was that of the Republican National Committee. In addition to Powell and Rice about two dozen White House advisors had personal email accounts under the account of the RNC on a commercial email service provider.
All large commercial email service providers have hundreds of personnel who labor to protect their systems from hackers and malware. NOTE:TO DO THEIR JOBS THESE CYBER-SECURITY PERSONNEL MUST HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXAMINE ANY AND ALL EMAILS/ATTACHMENTS THERETO ON THEIR SYSTEM. These employees of these private sector companies do NOT HAVE GOVERNMENT SECURITY CLEARANCES. THEREFORE ANY PERSONAL EMAIL ACCOUNTS WITH COMMERCIAL EMAIL SERVICE PROVIDERS ARE NOT SECURE.... even if they have not been hacked by someone outside the companies providing the email service.
[font size="3"] IN 2007 it was revealed that the Bush administration "lost" millions of emails.[/font]
FLASHBACK: When Millions Of Lost Bush White House Emails (From Private Accounts) Triggered A Media Shrug
Even for a Republican White House that was badly stumbling through George W. Bush's sixth year in office, the revelation on April 12, 2007 was shocking. Responding to congressional demands for emails in connection with its investigation into the partisan firing of eight U.S. attorneys, the White House announced that as many as five million emails, covering a two-year span, had been lost.
The emails had been run through private accounts controlled by the Republican National Committee and were only supposed to be used for dealing with non-administration political campaign work to avoid violating ethics laws. Yet congressional investigators already had evidence private emails had been used for government business, including to discuss the firing of one of the U.S. attorneys. The RNC accounts were used by 22 White House staffers, including then-Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, [font color="red"]who reportedly used his RNC email for 95 percent of his communications[/font].
As the Washington Post reported, "Under federal law, the White House is required to maintain records, including e-mails, involving presidential decision- making and deliberations." But suddenly millions of the private RNC emails had gone missing; emails that were seen as potentially crucial evidence by Congressional investigators.
The White House email story broke on a Wednesday. Yet on that Sunday's Meet The Press, Face The Nation, and Fox News Sunday, the topic of millions of missing White House emails did not come up. At all. (The story did get covered on ABC's This Week.)
(more)
[font size="3"] ... the emails were later "found" after two watchdog groups sued the Executive Office of the Presidency to release the emails..
[/font]
Millions of Bush administration e-mails recovered
Washington (CNN) -- Computer technicians have recovered about 22 million Bush administration e-mails that the Bush White House had said were missing, two watchdog groups that sued over the documents announced Monday.
The e-mails date from 2003 to 2005, and had been "mislabeled and effectively lost," according to the National Security Archive, a research group based at George Washington University. But Melanie Sloan, executive director of the liberal-leaning Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said it could be years before most of the e-mails are made public.
"The e-mails themselves are not what we're getting," Sloan said.
Documents related to the handling of e-mail under the Bush administration and subsequent information regarding how White House e-mails are currently archived will be released under a settlement with the Obama administration, which inherited a lawsuit the groups filed in 2007. But the National Archives must sort out which documents are covered by the Freedom of Information Act and which ones fall under the Presidential Records Act, which means they could be withheld for five to 10 years after the Bush administration left office in January, Sloan said.
(more)
NJCher
(35,660 posts)Of posts like this.
For Dog's sake, how many times can you post the same thing?
If there was a chance you're right, Sanders supporters would have seen the light already.
Put your prayer beads away, folks.
Sanders could win because in contrast to the cesspool of values that is trump/Clinton, he looks like he walks on water.
I know that's a glorious image, and the only reason it won't happen is because the system is corrupt to the core, and by supporting these morally bankrupt parts of the system, you are part of it.
Cher
ReasonableToo
(505 posts)brush
(53,771 posts)25 or so with the only bills of his passed named a couple of post offices.
And again, the indictment is not happening.
NJCher
(35,660 posts)from alternet:
Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.
Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:
Corporate Crime Accountability (February 1995): A Sanders amendment to the Victims Justice Act of 1995 required offenders who are convicted of fraud and other white-collar crimes to give notice to victims and other persons in cases where there are multiple victims eligible to receive restitution.
Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers (April 1998): In an amendment to H.R. 6, the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, Sanders made a change to the law that allowed the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education to make competitive grants available to colleges and universities that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services.
Holding IRS Accountable, Protecting Pensions (July 2002): Sanders' amendment to the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003 stopped the IRS from being able to use funds that violate current pension age discrimination laws. Although he faced stiff GOP opposition, his amendment still succeeded along a 308 to 121 vote.
Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001): You wouldn't think Republicans would agree to an expansion of funds for community health centers, which provide some free services. But Sanders was able to win a $100 million increase in funding with an amendment.
Getting Tough On Child Labor (July 2001): A Sanders amendment to the general appropriations bill prohibited the importation of goods made with child labor.
Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004): Sanders won a $22 million increase for the low-income home energy assistance program and related weatherization assistance program.
Fighting Corporate Welfare and Protecting Against Nuclear Disasters (June 2005): A Sanders amendment brought together a bipartisan coalition that outnumbered a bipartisan coalition on the other side to successfully prohibit the Export-Import Bank from providing loans for nuclear projects in China.
Not enough? OK, there's more:
Once Sanders made it to the Senate in 2006, his ability to use amendments to advance a progressive agenda was empowered. Here are some of the amendments he passed in the Senate:
Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.
Protecting Our Troops (October 2007): Sanders used an amendment to win $10 million for operation and maintenance of the Army National Guard, which had been stretched thin and overextended by the war in Iraq.
Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers.
Helping Veterans' Kids (July 2009): A Sanders amendment required the Comptroller General to put together comprehensive reporting on financial assistance for child care available to parents in the Armed Forces.
Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.
Support for Treating Autism in Military Health Care: Sanders worked with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) to pass an amendment by a vote of 66-29 ensuring that the military's TRICARE system would be able to treat autism.
Had enough? Oh, sorry:
Using the Power of a Senator
While Sanders was an amendment king who was able to bring bipartisan coalitions together to make serious changes to laws, he also knew how to be a thorn in the side of the establishment until it offered up something in return. Sanders was able to get the first-ever audit of funds given out by the Federal Reserve, which made transparent over $2 trillion of funds handed out by the secretive organization. This was a cause that Republican congressman Ron Paul (TX) had been pursuing for decades, but Sanders was able to get the votes to do it by forging a compromise that required an audit for the bailout period alone.
When the Affordable Care Act was in danger of not having the votes to pass, Sanders used his leverage to win enough funding for free health treatment for 10 million Americans through Community Health Centers. This gutsy moveholding out until the funds were put into the billhas even Republican members of Congress requesting the funds, which have helped millions of Americans who otherwise would not have access.
Another moment came when Sanders, who was then chair of the Veterans committee, worked with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), to overhaul the Veterans Administration. McCain praised Sanders' work on the bill in an interview with National Journal. Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) even went so far as to say the bill would never have passed without Sanders' ability to bring the parties to a deal.
His Theory of Change, From Burlington to the White House
The big question is, can Sanders translate his time as an effective senator into an effective president? After all, a legislative job is different than an executive job.
But Sanders has a theory of change, in order to be an executive who can pass progressive policy even in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. He frequently talks about a political revolution that means vastly increasing voter turnout and participation in political activities so conservative lawmakers and Big Money are unable to overwhelm public opinion. During the Democratic debate, this line had its doubters, from former Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) to a skeptical Anderson Cooper.
Sanders is probably not so unsure of himself. After all, he's done it before. When Sanders was mayor of Burlington, Vermont, one of his big accomplishments was to increase civic life in the city. During the course of his terms, voter turnout doubled. In his eight years as mayor, he rejuvenated a city that was considered by many to be dying, laying out progressive policies that cities around the country later adopted, and he did all this without particularly alienating Republicans. As one former GOP Alderman noted, he implemented ideas from the Republican party that he felt were not particularly harmful to working people, such as more efficient accounting practices.
It's easy for the establishment media and politicians to make the assumption that Bernie Sanders is not an effective lawmaker or executive. He has strong convictions and he stands by them, and we're often told that makes one a gadflysomeone who is out to make a point rather than make an actual change. But with Sanders we have the fusion of strong principles and the ability to forge odd bedfellow coalitions that accomplish historic things, like the audit of the Federal Reserve or the rejuvenation of Burlington that has served as a model for cities around the country. Don't underestimate me, Sanders said at the beginning of the race, words that anyone who knows his political and policy history take to heart.
Thank you for the opportunity to bring Bernie's long record of accomplishment to my fellow DU-ers.
Cher
brush
(53,771 posts)It is incorrect to state that Bernie Sanders never sponsored a bill that became law. He penned a total of three bills which were enacted as law, although two of those simply renamed post offices. Sanders is listed as a co-sponsor on over 200 pieces of legislation.
If we look at Sanders record at Congress.gov, we can see that he has in fact sponsored a small number of bills which made it to the Presidents desk. Although Sanders sponsored hundreds of pieces of legislation which date back to 1991, only three have become law.
Of all the bills that Sanders sponsored, we have the following breakdown:
357 introduced by Sanders
190 were considered by committee
12 were considered by the floor
1 failed one chamber
6 passed one chamber
3 passed both chambers, went to the President, and became law
NJCher
(35,660 posts)Let's just assume you are correct for a moment, which I am not willing to do unhesitatingly because you provide no link to your source. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, what you say is almost completely irrelevant. Why? Because as an independent, Sanders had to carve out his own ways of working to get a progressive agenda enacted. Everyone here knows the progressive agenda is not a priority with the people in Congress. Most are bought off, and their priorities are the needs of the people and corporations who own them.
The article pretty clearly points this out, yet you've chosen to take a very narrow view, which makes me think you're either a) a very literal type person who is not cued in the broader picture, or b) here to propagandize. If you have another motive, please let us know what it is.
Cher
brush
(53,771 posts)for 25 years, an especially ineffective part of it, who is now masquerading as anti-establisment and has fooled his supporters into buying his schtick.
I'm not buying it and here's the link on his Congressional ineffectiveness.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261736/bernie-sanders-only-passed-3-bills-2-renamed-post-daniel-greenfield
Here's another link to his Trotskyite past.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/02/bernie_sanders_radical_past_would_haunt_him_in_a_general_election.html
"Sanders served as an elector for the Socialist Workers Party, which was founded on the principles of Leon Trotsky."
The above is a pull quote from the site.
NJCher
(35,660 posts)you are amusing. Your first source, however, is a complete joke. Please: do not insult my intelligence.
You must be very desperate to come back with something like this. I invite anyone to take a look at the first source and tell me otherwise.
Second, no one really cares if you're buying or not. I don't have any stakes in convincing you; go ahead, think what you want--but please don't come on this site and post fragments of truth, extrapolating them to mean something they don't and never will. Don't try to pass off sources that are not credible. I will call you on it and if I'm not around, one of the others Sanders posters will.
As far as your second source goes, it's actually supportive of Bernie. The second part, his electability, is opinion.
???!!!???
Cher
brush
(53,771 posts)Deny that once you do the research you should have done before opening your mouth.
NJCher
(35,660 posts)Just for you.
I'm well aware of the point you're making. You haven't grasped my point yet--but more likely you do grasp it and you're persisting with your argument, even though you have nothing to go on. You do this for whatever perceived purpose you have. Maybe you just need to fill up some hours. Whatever.
What you don't seem to understand is that there are myriad ways to get things done. Bernie is not in the same position as a Democratic or republican legislator. Because he's an independent, he has to work his changes from a different angle. Do you understand why that is? Have you read enough about how the legislative process works to comprehend that? All of the information is available right here at DU, and if you actually read, you would know this.
In addition, if you've ever been a social activist who pushed through legislation, you would understand it. I've done so on the municipal, state, and federal level. There's nothing unique about it; it's just a matter of accomplishing a goal.
The point is: Bernie gets things done. He gets enormous progressive causes going. Just because he doesn't go at it with the full frontal approach doesn't mean he's not effective. It means he's creative, dedicated, and accomplished.
Cher
brush
(53,771 posts)Last edited Sun May 15, 2016, 01:01 AM - Edit history (2)
to get any kind of recognition nationwide?
Slow, take your time to let that sink in. Some might call that being a user.
Seems if he was so effective he could've run on his own record without the Dem party brand behind him.
It's all moot now though as he has lost.
Arneoker
(375 posts)For certain sensitive information I am told not only not to use my home computer system, but not to use the wrong company account. If I used the wrong company account and got caught then no one would buy the excuse, "But I didn't use my home system! Doesn't that make all of the difference?"
So I think you are right, this distinction doesn't make a difference. Perhaps procedures need to be tightened up, but it doesn't seem if anyone broke laws.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)in Sparks NV.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)trueblue2007
(17,215 posts)BootinUp
(47,142 posts)I haven't been able to get to mediamatters.org the past couple weeks.
Hare Krishna
(58 posts)He took out $1M for his trolls.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)So, I guess we just gotta let em tucker themselves out.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)May I ask several questions?
Which is your favorite beach?
It matters. You see, different ocean ad lake currents mean that different beaches with sand, (many have not a hint of sand) also have a wide variety of sands. In one part of Australia, I hiked on this southern delta, and saw 5 different distinct colors of sand, from black, red, yellow, orange, and white. But I digress.
Density of sand is the real issue.
What is your favorite digging tool?
Being a fan of various do it yourself TV shows, and even more so, the comedy spoofs that followed, it is important to know how you will dig that hole in the sand.
Rake? Spade? Snow shovel? (Important in a political race, given how they double as horse shit shovels), hand digger?
How deep do you normally aim for, when measuring for your head and neck?
I know. Size matters. So, how deep of a hole do you need to stick your head in it, while you ignore a huge dark cloud on your horizon?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Personal email server for ALL of her communication? Never used her GOV account???
dwrjr
(24 posts)FBI don't investigate servers; they investigate people to see if they committed a crime.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)dchill
(38,474 posts)by Bernie Bros!
karynnj
(59,503 posts)she did. John Kerry, on the other hand, received two very prestigious medals because of his courage and skill which saved the men who were with him - all done risking his own life. That is what the Republicans lied about and it was called swiftboating. Since then, Republicans as well as Democrats have claimed their candidate was being "swiftboated" because the concensus was that it was despicable.
As to Obama, there is no question that he was born in Hawaii - not to mention, this year we learned, that did not really matter because his mother was an American born in Kansas. As to Reagan, if that story is true, it was incredibly illegal.
Note that even in your arguments, you make the case that nothing she did was a crime. However, it is true that she left the SD and did not give them the email that they should always have had in spite of knowing there were FOIA inquiries. She herself admits that it was not the right way to handle this. There is an ongoing FBI investigation.
I agree that the right has made accusations that go far past the known facts, but the fact is that there IS reason for many not on the right to be unhappy with what she did.
AirmensMom
(14,642 posts)And the FBI investigated John Kerry, Obama, and Jimmy Carter. Oh wait...No, they didn't.
The Democratic Party is stupid to run someone as flawed and full of baggage as Hillary. They don't need a Republican Smear Campaign. She writes the ads for them.
Autumn
(45,065 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)ebayfool
(3,411 posts)Now, notsomuch! It's strictly an arm of her campaign.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)btw Brock founded the site. The task was and still is to point out when the GOP Propaganda machine is pushing Big Lies and identify when M$M aids and abets these creeps in spreading disinformation.
good reads by him are: Blinded by the Right and The Republican Noise Machine.
ebayfool
(3,411 posts)been allhillaryallthetime this cycle. Do you claim otherwise?
His mea culpa in his books notwithstanding, he is an unmitigated ass. Just because he found higher paying paymasters now doesn't rinse away his taint. He has become a women's rights supporter after the hell he put Anita Hill through? Right.
'Sure he's a slimy sewer dweller, but he's our slimy sewer dweller' doesn't apply to all of us. He's not going after GOP, he's going after 1 of 2 Democratic candidates in this primary. And doing so by twisting and contorting.
I'm not gonna waste my only day off by looking up and linking the myriad ways when I know, and you know, it would be a waste of effort and time. That request is "blowing smoke".
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
beedle
(1,235 posts)especially those who work for a business.
If you set up an email server in your basement, without the permission or knowledge of your company, and started using it for company business, and used it to contact people that your bosses explicitly told you not to do business with ... what do you think would happen to you? Would they fire you, or would they praise you and offer you the CEO position?
in any business I am aware of, the simple fact that you set up an email server in your basement and conducted business on it would be "the crime" ... there wouldn't be any need to go though the emails before being fired (it would still happen to evaluate the extent of the damage, but the damage has already taken place.)
Yes Hillary did do something WRONG .. she set up the email server ... the consequences for anyone else would be a severe penalty .. only in the world of Washington politics would this kind of blatant disregard for the rules not automatically disqualify you from continuing on in the 'business', let alone being promoted to the highest position in the 'company'.
patsimp
(915 posts)proportion to destroy her.
beedle
(1,235 posts)You don't think anyone else in any other profession would not be fired on the sport for conducting unauthorized business on a secret email server in their basement?
The only thing 'out of proportion' is that when normal people do this they are (justifiably) fired, when Hillary does it her 'sycophants' think it's 'normal'.
So answer the question .. what would happen to you if you pulled this stunt in any other 'business'?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Obama is overly tolerant about some things.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)are required to retain emails for 7 years(Sarbane-Oxley)
frylock
(34,825 posts)lol @ Media Matters.
dchill
(38,474 posts)in this thread, they should be fired and disbarred. And publicly ridiculed.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)that you and her accusers have brought against her?
dchill
(38,474 posts)for the FBI.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)histrionic poster.
dchill
(38,474 posts)Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)she has the same team as Petraeus
Matariki
(18,775 posts)dchill
(38,474 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's what the e-mails reveal sbout Hillary's relationships with others and also who got into, hacked into and read the e-mails along with Hillary and her correspondents that will cause her trouble.
The Republicans are being eerily silent about what the e-mails really reveal about Hillary and her machine.
They don't want the bad news about the e-mails to deter stupid Democrats from making her the nominee.
The silence from the Republicans about the specific problems with the e-mails is menacing.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)information.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brock
Brock began his career as a right-wing investigative reporter, but in the late 1990s switched sides, aligning himself with the Democratic Party, and in particular with Bill and Hillary Clinton. In 2004, he founded Media Matters for America, a non-profit organization that describes itself as a "progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media." He has since also founded super PACs called American Bridge 21st Century and Correct the Record, has become a board member of the super PAC Priorities USA Action, and has been elected chairman of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW).
He's playing FOX News for Hillary, which is why you don't know what you are talking about.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)I doubt she would have so many supporters if there was a lot of issues in this matter.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Nixon won reelection by epic margins after Watergate happened. Bill was thought to be a victim of lying women and denied wrongdoing despite his previous mistress recording their conversation until Monica-and-the-blue-dress. No one wanted to believe Edwards was cheating on his terminally ill wife until the DNA tests revealed he was a daddy again.
The problem isn't a lack of evidence that Hillary has screwed up; the problem is people who ignore it (like you are doing) and create a false reality of "nothing wrong". It damages the party and the country when bad decisions are rewarded.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)into believing things and taking positions that have been shown to lose. Then while the right -wing destroys the country and creates their oligarchy, the left can continue to sit on the sidelines. Nader was a perfect example of this.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)is under CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION by a non-partisan federal agency for not only endangering national security but also public corruption. Choosing to believe in an imaginary "vast right wing conspiracy" created when one woman didn't want to believe her husband was cheating on her is the definition of will full ignorance.
gordianot
(15,237 posts)So I guess that is different from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, maybe an entirely different Executive Agency? I sincerely am grateful for this information I think it warrants closer scrutiny and now wonder if the FBI is looking at the State Deprtment.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)JudyM
(29,233 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)ReasonableToo
(505 posts)...seeming madness. In the back of my mind I'm thinking the investigation keeps press focus on the mechanics of emails rather than content and connection to their TWO Foundations. The Canadian Foundation and foreign contributions/investments/payoffs is the real story. After seeing Comey's connections including Lockheed Martin, I'm even more confident that it is an attempt to control the controversy.
Remember when FOX got caught hacking into voicemails in UK? Faux Noise here equated it with the business that were hacked into over here. They hid the actions by misleading their viewers into thinking Fox was the victim of hacking.
By focusing on servers, the media keeps people talking about where emails stored rather than what's in them and that they were not treated as RECORDS that BELONG to the public.
I equate the server issue PARTLY to Cheney's keeping a man-sized safe and not handing the contents over when he left. The biggest issue, though is contributions for arms deals and other business deals.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Yes, the Lockheed Martin connection is interesting when you consider the "too big to kill" F-35 which might be another motivation. Don't forget that Bill made tons of enemies by closing a bunch of bases early on. But basically I think what we have here is a sadly advanced case of Clinton Derangement Syndrome. Still crazy after all these years....
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)There is a market for this crap.
Right out of the RW playbook. Lather, rinse, repeat, etc...
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
smiley
(1,432 posts)are the ones perpetrated against the Clintons.
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)and just because rice,powell,whoever else, did it too ,is no excuse,they did wrong too.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)There is an ongoing FBI investigation. These kinds of posts are just stupid.
coffeeAM
(180 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)deliberately violating the FOIA.
The criminal issue is under FBI investigation.
The FOIA violations are the subject of many separate lawsuits the State Department is losing.