2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNV Democrats file complaint against Sanders campaign to DNC
by Jon Ralston
The state Democratic Party has filed a stinging complaint with national Democrats over the "explosive situation" and "paranoid fantasy of fraud and delegate theft" created by Bernie Sanders supporters at Saturday's state convention, warning it could be a harbinger of what's to come in Philadelphia in July.
The key section from party lawyer Bradley Schrager to the DNC's Rules Committee: "We believe, unfortunately, that the tactics and behavior on display here in Nevada are harbingers of things to come as Democrats gather in Philadelphia in July for our National Convention. We write to alert you to what we perceive as the Sander Campaigns penchant for extra-parliamentary behaviorindeed, actual violencein place of democratic conduct in a convention setting, and furthermore what we can only describe as their encouragement of, and complicity in, a very dangerous atmosphere that ended in chaos and physical threats to fellow Democrats."
...
read the rest, including the full text of the NSDP letter with attachments
https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/nv-democrats-file-complaint-against-sanders-campaign-dnc
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Damn well his part and this is out of hand by his creation. I am glad to see Democrats address this.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Somehow magically that wasn't filmed, even though there were 50 cameras recording everything. The whole thing is an attempt by Hillary supporters to change the subject because they got caught cheating on video.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Response to azurnoir (Reply #1)
SFnomad This message was self-deleted by its author.
msongs
(67,403 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She was there
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)It will be interesting to see who persists in catapulting the propaganda in the face of this report.
synergie
(1,901 posts)and how little they seem to know or understand about the basics of participating in democracy, like SHOWING UP when you're supposed to.
So the true nature of the Sanders mob is once again caught on video, on voicemail and we see the violence that substitutes for any understanding of reality at play here.
Deflect all you want to, but the fact are that people didn't show up, the math wasn't in Bernie's favor and the mob got violent, AGAIN. You can't cover up what they did, or why.
still_one
(92,187 posts)Sanders campaign
synergie
(1,901 posts)They're not shell shocked little kids and people walking out of rallies into a gauntlet of abuse, they're people who are making their voices heard, and the BSers are going out of their way to make the case that they're angry and violent and not very bright by making their death threats on traceable accounts.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)kaleckim
(651 posts)by this propaganda effort. What happened in Vegas looked horrible for the DNC, as well as Clinton, as it was undemocratic and authoritarian. Video emerged of how horrible this process was and what followed? The focus on chair throwing (which is an obvious lie, just as the "English only" was a lie, you people have no damn shame) and the death threats. Even those haven't been proven, although they are possible. This is all too obvious. If you didn't work hard to press this meme, you'd have to defend something you can't, the totally undemocratic nature of what actually happened in Vegas. I am done with this party and hope it implodes. I will enjoy watching it implode in the coming months, as you chose a horrible candidate that isn't liked or trusted and polls much worse than Sanders versus Trump. Keep this dying party, you deserve it.
kaleckim
(651 posts)that this meme works and that is the end result. Otherwise, you'd have to defend the horrible, authoritarian and undemocratic things the DNC and Clinton's supporters did in Vegas. If you didn't push this meme, you'd have to defend what actually happened. I'm guessing that Brock is behind this meme, and that at least a few of the people in this thread have some connection to that rat (be honest, at least a few do).
Sorry to interrupt the clunky propaganda effort though, back to trying to change the perception of the implosion of the DNC that started in Vegas.
Gavile
(107 posts)That's the point. A whole room full of cameras and somehow this mob violence managed to NOT be captured on camera.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Just more lies and propaganda from the corporatist wing of the party.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Are you seriously equating Sanders woes to holocaust and other victims of Hitler? Seriously?
still_one
(92,187 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)what his Bernieshirts have been up to yet) with regard to the aggressive mob that unveiled itself in NV?
Yes more lies and propaganda from the people who simply can't figure out that their actions are on record, and devolving to Godwin's Law wasn't necessary to lose the argument, since the violence, harassment and intimidation is on record, as well as the failure to understand or accept basic rules that apply to both camps.
kaleckim
(651 posts)otherwise known as people that are pissed at a blatantly undemocratic process and are voicing their displeasure.
How do you people not see that this is clunky propaganda to divert attention away from the horrible optics of what actually happened in Vegas, which caused people to be so angry in the first place? It's obvious. The DNC did something horrible, it was captured on video, and they responded by pushing this meme in the hope of diverting attention. Not only did they do something stupid to start this whole mess, they've utterly alienated tons of people that were probably on the fence as far as supporting her in the GE. Brilliant move when she is already not trusted, is the second most unliked major party candidate in polling history and is now tied nationally (and in some key states) with the most unpopular candidate in polling history. It isn't like you had support and votes to waste, and that's exactly what you've done.
Hope this cluster *uck and the small handful of delegates was worth it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It's only propaganda when it reflects poorly upon Sanders. if it assist him or reflects poorly upon Clinton, it's righteous journalism full of integrity and other juicy bits.
Every. Damn. Time. You guys are being enabling by this little hobgoblin called 'Foolish Consistency'
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)What utter bullshit.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)campaign!--all by themselves. Blaming it on others is silly and shows your desperation.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)all this violence and repeated mob action really is utter bullshit.
Gavile
(107 posts)These are all the same dog whistle terms that were used to describe Civil Rights activists. One of the pretexts used to ban gathering of MLK supporters was that violence always broke out at his rallies.
elleng
(130,895 posts)Interview with Nina Turner re: Nevada and more... [View all]
The Benjamin Dixon Show:
http://thebenjamindixonshow.com/live-broadcast-monday-thursday-9pm-est/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=196749
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280196805
riversedge
(70,204 posts)reading them for FACTS!
elleng
(130,895 posts)more significant is action of officials in Democratic committee that precipitated the uproar; reactions are predictable and human.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...I don't believe it's predictable and human to threaten individuals in a convention setting, or most anywhere, for that matter.
If folks keep providing excuses for such behavior, they'll have only themselves to blame when something tragic happens. Problems with registration isn't justification for violence.
Violence is not progressive behavior, it's regressive and an anathema to the democratic process. If folks can't agree with that principle, maybe they don't belong at these political gatherings.
You should realize that there were very young children present at the convention. This isn't the Democratic party I know and respect. NOTHING that occurred with those folks' registrations justified violent behavior. NOTHING.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Last edited Tue May 17, 2016, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)extremely serious formal charges the Nevada State Democratic Party has made against Bernie's own campaign. Not a bunch of yahoo delegaes, but The Sanders Campaign.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/312844982/160516-Letter-DNC-RBC-NVDemsConvention
I remember you as a huge and fellow supporter of Martin O'Malley. He urged his supporters to back Bernie Sanders before things started getting ugly, but what is he thinking now?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)No video of the allegations. It's because the 'violence' didn't happen. It's Hillary supporters getting caught cheating and trying to change the subject.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Cha
(297,188 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)MOST Sanders supporters IRL would never act this way but there is an element that's gone way off the rails, and I seriously doubt they were ever Democrats to begin with.
synergie
(1,901 posts)Remember all those people who were proudly proclaiming how they'd vote for their candidate and them immediately change their registration? They did and forgot to read the rules, but that's not their fault of course, it's why they must harass and assault the women in the room, including Nina Turner.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)executed to near perfection by the wizards of BernieLand. The pre-disposed and weak fell early. Time + reinforcement and a natural human desire to adhere to group norms brought still more under the spell. The strong and the intellectually honest have not succumbed to the fantastical notion that two Democrats who share a 93% likeness in voting record could be anything other than political siblings. Indeed, SBS co-sponsored 19 pieces of legislation authored by HRC and she supported seven of his.
Intellectual honesty requires the recognition that a fine, outstanding liberal senator like Barbara Boxer does not endorse right-wing candidates, and she has not now, because the stubborn truth is that Sanders and Clinton are much more alike than they are different.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Response to madamesilverspurs (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)well for them.
Response to riversedge (Reply #33)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
elleng
(130,895 posts)but some/many REALLY want to ignore the facts, encouraging continued similar actions, and many of those are here.
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)onecaliberal
(32,852 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)MelungeonWoman
(502 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Blaming the Clinton is bullshit.
kaleckim
(651 posts)She's that powerful now? See how that works though. Some people do something against someone you don't like, Sanders much apologize and is responsible. Some supporters of the corrupt candidate you support do something much worse, you can't blame her.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)He is supposed to be a leader.
On Twitter, no one ever knows who is sending stuff from whom, so I hold the individual responsible.
Anyone who sent me such a thing on Twitter would be reported to the FBI and the local police. I want that person in jail where they can't hurt children.
kaleckim
(651 posts)didn't do anything but yell, because they were pissed. The chair throwing claim is a lie and you know it, just as the "English only" meme was a bold face (and immoral) lie too. The people at the event yelled, because they were pissed at how undemocratic the entire process was. How is he any more responsible for what happened thereafter than Clinton would be on what her followers say on Twitter?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)THIS IS NO LEADER.
This shit is unconscionable.
Gavile
(107 posts)And so far he's done nothing wrong that would require an apology.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)He's done nothing wrong. And if that's the case then Hillary needs to apologize for her felons who go around beating Bernie supporers up
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)Gavile
(107 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)It is saddening that this is what Sanders campaign is devolving into. I really thought he had great ideas when he first started but his behavior and the behavior of his surrogates is cause for grave concern.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)It doesn't have to get so violent over a few delegates Clinton fairly won in Feb.
Response to madamesilverspurs (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)Response to riversedge (Reply #30)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)calling Sen. Boxer a B**ch at the convention? Sanders fans trying to shout her speech down!
Gavile
(107 posts)You should probably get out of politics and stick to playing bridge instead.
kaleckim
(651 posts)a horribly undemocratic process, the aftermath of which was caught on video and looked horrible for the DNC and Clinton supporters, hence this pathetic meme. If this meme wasn't pushed so hard, you'd have to defend what actually happened in Vegas and you know you can't.
It is hard to put into words how monumentally stupid what the DNC did in Vegas. I hope the handful of delegates (which she probably won't even fucking need) was worth it. If you all think there won't be major repercussions for Clinton, you're deluded. Sanders wasn't likely to win, she was, so horrible incidents like this are necessarily going to harm her more, and this was, again, a monumentally stupid decision that is massively backfiring on the DNC now. Implosion city.
Response to riversedge (Reply #42)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)Response to riversedge (Reply #43)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
bjo59
(1,166 posts)did at that convention was recorded in its entirety and available for anyone who wants to find out what actually happened.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)the pale!--
Response to riversedge (Reply #29)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)I hope no harm comes to anyone. This will not end well for the Sanders camp and you constantly blaming Hillary for their behavior is beyond the pale.
NYT: Vicious Bernie Supporters Threaten Grandchild of Nevada Dem State Chair
http://bluenationreview.com/nyt-vicious-bernie-supporters-threaten-grandchild-of-nv-dem-state-chair/
By Peter Daou
May 16, 2016
Threats to children for political purposes are unacceptable and Bernie Sanders should condemn these horrible actions immediately.
From the NY Times:
Thrown chairs. Leaked cellphone numbers. Death threats spewed across the Internet. No, this is not the work of Donald J. Trump supporters, some of whom have harassed critics of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee. It was angry supporters of Senator Bernie Sanders who were directing their ire at the Nevada Democratic Party and its chairwoman, Roberta Lange over a state convention on Saturday that they think was emblematic of a rigged political system.
Heres Jamil Smith, a respected commentator and senior correspondent at MTV News:.....
Response to riversedge (Reply #46)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It sounds like Team B got caught pulling yet another maneuver.
This time I hope they take it all the way.
.99center
(1,237 posts)Screw the establishment and its fake, right wing, dirty smear tactics about violence at the convention, you will not successfully label people who choose to peacefully protest as the enemy.
"What we can only describe as their encouragement of, and complicity in, a very dangerous atmosphere that ended in chaos and physical threats to fellow Democrats."
Was this statement written about Barbara Boxer, she's the only one on stage creating a dangerous environment. I expected this sort of attack on Bernie, it was clear within the first minute of watching Boxer trying to incite the crowd. They didn't get the violence they hoped to achieve but they're claiming otherwise.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)Yelling at her as she tried to begin her talk!! It was beyond rude of Sanders fans and then for one man to yell B***ch!.
....Was this statement written about Barbara Boxer, she's the only one on stage creating a dangerous environment. I expected this sort of attack on Bernie, it was clear within the first minute of watching Boxer trying to incite the crowd. They didn't get the violence they hoped to achieve but they're claiming otherwise.
.....................
.99center
(1,237 posts)The only reason we know someone yelled that is because there was a cellphone 2 feet away from the guy that yelled that stupid remark. Atleast half of the room had the perception of a stolen election perpetrated by Hillary, hence the booing. What type of idiot would start yelling Hillary! , and were winning! , at the crowd if the goal was civility. Barbara's not an idiot, she knew what she was doing.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The DNC breach was bad but the abusive behavior in L.A. was really shocking, and Sanders refused to condemn it. In fact he condoned it on national TV, calling it "exactly appropriate" in an interview with Rachel Maddow. And now booing Barbara Boxer and attempting to pack a state convention with ringers. And the vandalism. The end can't come soon enough.
.99center
(1,237 posts)Someone arrest this man!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Numerous medical emergencies among delegates pressed up against the dais had to be attended to throughout the day.
To the great embarrassment and revulsion of the vast majority of attendees, Sanders delegates crowded the dais and shouted down universally-respected U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer of California, who had arrived as a guest of the party to deliver a keynote address in support of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
The Sanders Campaign spent its time either ignoring or profiting from the chaos it did much to create and nothing to diminish or mitigate.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/312844982/160516-Letter-DNC-RBC-NVDemsConvention#
What kind of messed-up thuggery is that?
.99center
(1,237 posts)"crowded the dais" Them thugs!
"Numerous medical emergencies among delegates pressed up against the dais had to be attended to throughout the day."
There's one report of someone having a seizure- Blame Bernie!
"The Sanders Campaign spent its time either ignoring or profiting from the chaos"
Ok, that it, this letter is complete garbage! If you have any proof of these claims then post it but quit using this letter as a source of what happen when we have plenty of video of what happen at the convention. I'm really looking forward to the proof of how he "profited off of chaos"
Why does Hillary refuse to condemn confirmed violence?
The Wire actor Wendell Pierce charged with battery, reportedly for attacking Sanders supporter
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2016/05/17/The-Wire-actor-Wendell-Pierce-charged-with-battery-reportedly-for-attacking-Sanders-supporter/stories/201605170112
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)still_one
(92,187 posts)BlueLouisville
(28 posts)They had an early vote for 'temporary rules' for the convention. This vote took place at 9:30 a.m. and voting wasn't suppose to begin until 10:00 a.m. Oddly all of Clinton's supporters were present for the early vote, while Sanders supporters were standing around outside because no votes were suppose to be taking place. There were multiple motions made objecting to the early 'temporary rules' vote, but they were completely ignored. The convention chair took voice votes which clearly weren't definitive, then seconded her own motion and adjourned the convention. This is isn't about Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, this is about democracy. Sanders fans response was clearly out of line but it doesn't excuse the DNC totally undemocratic actions.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)BlueLouisville
(28 posts)Thanks for such an informed response.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)BlueLouisville
(28 posts)Or is it just snarky comments all the time?
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)That sounds like cheating to me.
BlueLouisville
(28 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Many were not REGISTERED.
BlueLouisville
(28 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Gothmog
(145,168 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)http://usuncut.com/politics/hillary-clinton-gaslighting-sanders/
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)never heard of the term.. but it suits this situation perfectly, thanks.
brooklynite
(94,519 posts)They HAVE complained, haven't they?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...if you can't find Jon Ralston to be a credible source, you really don't have a clue about Nevada politics.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)And parroted across the M$M.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...you're stuck with this image of Sanders supporters 'parroted across the M$M.'
If I were concerned about the Sanders brand, I'd take more steps to make certain behavior like what is being reported doesn't become a hallmark of the Sanders camp.
What I fully expect to happen - since most of the responses from Sanders' folks have ranged from justifying it, to denial - is a doubling down of the angry displays by some supporters, encouraged by those now justifying and excusing it.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Tragic that otherwise reasoning people are blind to the fact that Clinton and her surrogates are the ones who are in positions of power and abuse that power.
Neither Sanders or his supporters created the 'chaos' at the NV convention. That was a deliberate creation of the state party and the DNC.
This is the very definition of political stove piping.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...no one is more responsible for the behavior of the Sanders fans than themselves.
Sanders fans at the NV convention:
Carissa WomanCard ?@bluelyon
On the left, patient @HillaryClinton supporters. On right disruptive Sanders supporters. #nvdemconvention
blackspade
(10,056 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
B Calm
(28,762 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)to exist" a notion that he has somehow been "snookered" out of a nomination. That comment was in reference to a brief report they aired about the violence at the Nevada convention.
So this increasing violence and Sanders' failure to address it means that he condones it in his name. The general public is now hearing reports like this, so it's not limited to the internet anymore.
I'm glad to see this report from Nevada to the DNC. It's obvious that Sanders is encouraging the victim roll-playing to gain some type of unearned leverage.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)he does not step up and condemn this behavior from his fans.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)imagine2015
(2,054 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)their political leader needs to speak up and condemn this vile behavior
snort
(2,334 posts)shanine
(354 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)err, I mean "process".
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)After donating to them for two and a half decades...they've lost me for the rest of my life with this election. They will never ever get another cent from me...and they make me feel dumb about donating so much in the past.
Their opinion of people that won't just sit down and take it does not fucking matter. And neither does the opinion of their squad of AmeriCANTS.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Discovery should be fun!
bunchofpenguins
(47 posts)How's that accountability and transparency working out for the DNC? Everybody already sees through their BS.
snort
(2,334 posts)Move on, nothing to see here.
snort
(2,334 posts)I prefer 'Ratfuckery'
mooseprime
(474 posts)about using cluster bombs in civilian areas, invasion and destruction of entire countries, and the many other atrocities that happen to be matters of public record as they do that someone interrupts the decorum of their fake democracy pageant with bad behavior.
clinton initiates and fosters death, savagery, and suffering, but bernie people used their outdoor voices and said bad words.
shame.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Bernie people got angry!! Why ever for??!!
dana_b
(11,546 posts)Shit like this guarantees a nasty convention. They are filing a complaint because the bernie supporters were treated with complete disdain and ignored all day?! They were acting out bcause they could not get any true democracy! What a bunch of fucking cowards and fascists!