2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumU.S Socialist Party: Bernie a warmonger, imperialist, pro-apartheid, status quo
The U.S. Socialist Party doesn't like Bernie. Per the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-socialists-20160525-snap-story.html
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Not insane but right wing.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Just because the real loony left calls you too right for them does not make you a centrist, nor anyone to your right a conservative.
12% of the nation thinks Obama is too far to the right. There is no sane definition of the words "centrist", let alone "right" which puts them at the 13th percentile of the political spectrum. But when you are at that 13th percentile, or heck somewhere around the 8th or 9th if we want to guestimate Sanders,, you sure as hell look like a right winger to those in the first few percentiles. I'm sure I look very tall to 5 year olds (and very short to NBA centers), whereas people with normal perspective see me as average in height.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2013/12/20/cnn-poll-shows-1-in-5-who-disapprove-of-obama-think-hes-too-conservative-n1766679
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Remember. Bernie Sanders isn't a leftist... except when measured against the heavily right-wing trend of American politics in both parties. He's a liberal centrist. To the left of the Center-right Democrats, to the far left of the proto-fascist Republicans, sure... but still no leftist.
vintx
(1,748 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Which is how we get Arlen Specter, Democrat Extraordinaire.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)lots of people in the real world convinced themselves that all it took to be progressive was disliking Reagan...
which is how we got Bill Clinton, Third-Way False Messiah of the Democratic party.
vintx
(1,748 posts)who were seemingly unaware of Clinton's Republican legacy. Ot least it seemed not to, anyway. I remember lots of discussion of the telecommunications act, welfare reform, NAFTA, etc and it seemed that third way bullshit was all but universally despised (with a few glaring exceptions)
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Only on the relativistic AMERICAN scale of politics is Bernie ANY sort of "leftist". He's an FDR Democrat and there's been NO TRUE LEFTIST GROUPS THAT HAVE ENDORSED HIM RUNNING AS A DEMOCRAT! None.
Even compared to the rest of the world, Bernie is a centrist, maybe center-left on domestic policy, but the support of American imperialism pulls him firmly into the "center" column.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)From the link " but some on the far left still find he has too much in common with Clinton, the establishment favorite."
realmirage
(2,117 posts)bjo59
(1,166 posts)It's a difficult one because the only thing they can come up with to stop what is going on is an actual revolution and that is an extremely unlikely thing for Americans to do. Even though I agree with a lot of the positions taken by the type of person who lumps Bernie in with the rest (such as Chris Hedges), I think it's a very easy thing to sit at one's desk, surrounded by one's books and declare Bernie a warmonger and an imperialist while telling everyone they'll need to revolt the old fashioned way. Right. Are they going to lead such a revolt? No. (It's also completely disingenuous to call Sanders a warmonger - he most certainly is not.) Anyway, I am bemused by the fact that such a status quo newspaper as the LA Times is writing about this. Socialists and others (general "real" left-wingers) have been writing this about Bernie for years and isn't it interesting that suddenly it's newsworthy? When else has the LA Times ever written a story about the U.S. Socialist Party? Well, I guess it all depends on one's current agenda, doesn't it?
realmirage
(2,117 posts)"I think it's a very easy thing to sit at one's desk, surrounded by one's books and declare Bernie a warmonger and an imperialist"
Reminds me of what BS does when he judges everything the clintons did. Those in the trenches have to make hard decisions that those on the sidelines can never understand
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)We understand that many and most of those hard decisions come at the expense of working people while favoring the Beautiful People.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Good job
stone space
(6,498 posts)The author of the OP made it up.
The article mentions the Socialist Party USA, and their presidential candidate.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Maybe not in those words, but I have no doubt that Sanders would end up being called all sorts of names. Presidents have to do a lot of compromising to govern and Sanders would be unable to avoid it totally. Look at his compromise on the Veteran's bill, because it's proof that he is willing to make a deal.
"Presidents have to do a lot of compromising to govern and Sanders would be unable to avoid it totally. "
Those on the sidelines like to judge when they have no idea what it's like to be in the actual game
Armstead
(47,803 posts)No need to provide too much information....But since you expressing such an elevated opinion about how little us "outsiders" are, am curious how much right you have to put people down like that.
And no I'm not a player...I'm engaged in issues on a local level professionally but not among the stratosphere.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Talking about Bernie judging the decisions of presidents when he has no idea how difficult the job is and the compromise that is required
Armstead
(47,803 posts)You would be very surprised at how effective he was at compromising with opponents to get things done....and actually getting good things done.
He was great at outfoxing his conservative opponents, while also building collaborations with them to actually finding common ground and solving problems
A city is not a nation, but the dynamics of executive style are the same.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)why the attacks on the Clintons for their supposed lack of progressive purity? Progressive purity cannot exist in this world when dealing with others who do not share your world view. That is why I understand the Clintons and think they've done a great job.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)"Progressive Purity" is a right wing meme that is used to marginalize legitimate concerns and objections
Armstead
(47,803 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/bernies-burlington-what-k_b_7510704.html
Now that Sanders, a U.S. Senator from Vermont, is running for president, the eight years he spent as Burlingtons chief executive (1981-89) will be under close scrutiny. Although President Obama recently joked at the White House Correspondents Association dinner that Sanders is a pot-smoking socialist, he was actually a hardworking, pragmatic, effective mayor who helped transform Vermonts largest city (population: 38,000) into a thriving town.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)And I'll use your own words yo answer the question: "dealing with others who do not share your world view"
The Clintons don't even come close beyond their speeches.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Sanders ever became president and had to actually deal with a GOP congress to get anything done. This is what purists still aren't grasping.
And btw that graph is pure nonsense
Chan790
(20,176 posts)You're right...Hillary should be 2-3 boxes higher towards "Authoritarian", at-least equal on that axis with Rubio.
She's also probably slightly closer to the y-axis as a center-right candidate...they have her square in the center of what would be considered the traditional post-Reagan GOP...she's bad, but she isn't that bad. That's Gingrich-level conservative.
TimPlo
(443 posts)Than Sanders. He has had executive branch experience in VT. All Clinton has done as a elected official is a 1 term Senator.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Skinner
(63,645 posts)And you are correct.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
baldguy
(36,649 posts)And, unlike most of us, you can do something about that.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)stone space
(6,498 posts)Never heard of that one.
Any relation to the Democrat Party?
From the article:
As Los Angeles activist and aspiring office holder Mimi Soltysik ponders the Democratic ballot in the race for the White House, the words he blurts out include "warmonger", "imperialist" and "status quo".
And that's before he even turns his attention to Hillary Clinton.
Not every leftist is enamored with Bernie Sanders. Some see him as a sellout.
"He has had a long history of support for war", said Soltysik, who is running under the banner of the Socialist Party USA.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)When a major establishment newspaper begins to give press to a true socialist leftist's positions, then that means the political center is beginning to inch back towards the left instead of this decades long hurtle to the right. IF, as most HRC supporters claim, the presumptive nominee IS a "liberal", then moving the center left would be good for her agenda too.
Of course most of today's "liberals" are more scared of "communists" than they are of fascists, so this probably won't be looked at as a progressive step.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Nice ideals but literally no strategy to achieve anything. Under his leadership his party will remain irrelevant.