HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » U.S Socialist Party: Ber...

Thu May 26, 2016, 01:44 AM

 

U.S Socialist Party: Bernie a warmonger, imperialist, pro-apartheid, status quo

The U.S. Socialist Party doesn't like Bernie. Per the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-socialists-20160525-snap-story.html

41 replies, 1348 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply U.S Socialist Party: Bernie a warmonger, imperialist, pro-apartheid, status quo (Original post)
realmirage May 2016 OP
TheCowsCameHome May 2016 #1
JRLeft May 2016 #2
whatthehey May 2016 #32
JRLeft May 2016 #39
whatthehey May 2016 #40
Scootaloo May 2016 #3
vintx May 2016 #11
Scootaloo May 2016 #12
Chan790 May 2016 #13
vintx May 2016 #21
socialist_n_TN May 2016 #33
NWCorona May 2016 #4
fun n serious May 2016 #5
realmirage May 2016 #8
bjo59 May 2016 #6
realmirage May 2016 #9
tazkcmo May 2016 #28
MyNameGoesHere May 2016 #15
stone space May 2016 #35
KingFlorez May 2016 #7
realmirage May 2016 #10
Armstead May 2016 #14
realmirage May 2016 #16
Armstead May 2016 #17
realmirage May 2016 #18
Armstead May 2016 #25
Armstead May 2016 #26
tazkcmo May 2016 #30
AZ Progressive May 2016 #19
realmirage May 2016 #20
Chan790 May 2016 #22
TimPlo May 2016 #36
baldguy May 2016 #24
Skinner May 2016 #29
baldguy May 2016 #37
workinclasszero May 2016 #38
baldguy May 2016 #23
stone space May 2016 #27
Sunlei May 2016 #31
socialist_n_TN May 2016 #34
Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #41

Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 01:47 AM

1. DUzy. Thanks for the laugh.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 01:53 AM

2. We tried to tell you that Bernie is on the middle and Hillary and Barack her right wingers.

 

Not insane but right wing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JRLeft (Reply #2)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:33 AM

32. I think you have the scale wrong. Hell,I know you do.

Just because the real loony left calls you too right for them does not make you a centrist, nor anyone to your right a conservative.

12% of the nation thinks Obama is too far to the right. There is no sane definition of the words "centrist", let alone "right" which puts them at the 13th percentile of the political spectrum. But when you are at that 13th percentile, or heck somewhere around the 8th or 9th if we want to guestimate Sanders,, you sure as hell look like a right winger to those in the first few percentiles. I'm sure I look very tall to 5 year olds (and very short to NBA centers), whereas people with normal perspective see me as average in height.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2013/12/20/cnn-poll-shows-1-in-5-who-disapprove-of-obama-think-hes-too-conservative-n1766679

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to whatthehey (Reply #32)

Fri May 27, 2016, 12:28 PM

39. Townhall LMFAO!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JRLeft (Reply #39)

Fri May 27, 2016, 12:32 PM

40. So they made up the CNN poll? Sabotaged it? What exactly?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 01:54 AM

3. No surprises there.

 

Remember. Bernie Sanders isn't a leftist... except when measured against the heavily right-wing trend of American politics in both parties. He's a liberal centrist. To the left of the Center-right Democrats, to the far left of the proto-fascist Republicans, sure... but still no leftist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #3)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:37 AM

11. It's amazing to me that so many people seem not to be able to grasp this fact nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to vintx (Reply #11)

Thu May 26, 2016, 10:55 PM

12. On DU, lots of people convinced themselves that all it took to be "on the left" was disliking Dubya

 

Which is how we get Arlen Specter, Democrat Extraordinaire.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #12)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:02 PM

13. Earlier than that...

 

lots of people in the real world convinced themselves that all it took to be progressive was disliking Reagan...

which is how we got Bill Clinton, Third-Way False Messiah of the Democratic party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #13)

Fri May 27, 2016, 08:00 AM

21. Yep. But DU didn't used to have so many members

 

who were seemingly unaware of Clinton's Republican legacy. Ot least it seemed not to, anyway. I remember lots of discussion of the telecommunications act, welfare reform, NAFTA, etc and it seemed that third way bullshit was all but universally despised (with a few glaring exceptions)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #3)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:58 AM

33. Agree with you Scoot...........

Only on the relativistic AMERICAN scale of politics is Bernie ANY sort of "leftist". He's an FDR Democrat and there's been NO TRUE LEFTIST GROUPS THAT HAVE ENDORSED HIM RUNNING AS A DEMOCRAT! None.

Even compared to the rest of the world, Bernie is a centrist, maybe center-left on domestic policy, but the support of American imperialism pulls him firmly into the "center" column.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 01:54 AM

4. And Bernie isn't even a member.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 01:56 AM

5. This is something here

 

From the link " but some on the far left still find he has too much in common with Clinton, the establishment favorite."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fun n serious (Reply #5)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:31 AM

8. That is quite interesting

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 02:02 AM

6. Yep, the "true" left does not like anyone who participates in the system... at all.

It's a difficult one because the only thing they can come up with to stop what is going on is an actual revolution and that is an extremely unlikely thing for Americans to do. Even though I agree with a lot of the positions taken by the type of person who lumps Bernie in with the rest (such as Chris Hedges), I think it's a very easy thing to sit at one's desk, surrounded by one's books and declare Bernie a warmonger and an imperialist while telling everyone they'll need to revolt the old fashioned way. Right. Are they going to lead such a revolt? No. (It's also completely disingenuous to call Sanders a warmonger - he most certainly is not.) Anyway, I am bemused by the fact that such a status quo newspaper as the LA Times is writing about this. Socialists and others (general "real" left-wingers) have been writing this about Bernie for years and isn't it interesting that suddenly it's newsworthy? When else has the LA Times ever written a story about the U.S. Socialist Party? Well, I guess it all depends on one's current agenda, doesn't it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bjo59 (Reply #6)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:34 AM

9. What you said:

 

"I think it's a very easy thing to sit at one's desk, surrounded by one's books and declare Bernie a warmonger and an imperialist"

Reminds me of what BS does when he judges everything the clintons did. Those in the trenches have to make hard decisions that those on the sidelines can never understand

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #9)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:20 AM

28. Those on the sidelines can never understand

We understand that many and most of those hard decisions come at the expense of working people while favoring the Beautiful People.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bjo59 (Reply #6)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:13 PM

15. Spin 21

Good job

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bjo59 (Reply #6)

Fri May 27, 2016, 10:13 AM

35. The article mentions no party by that name.

 

When else has the LA Times ever written a story about the U.S. Socialist Party?


The author of the OP made it up.

The article mentions the Socialist Party USA, and their presidential candidate.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2016, 02:08 AM

7. A preview of what Sanders supporters would say about him if he became President

Maybe not in those words, but I have no doubt that Sanders would end up being called all sorts of names. Presidents have to do a lot of compromising to govern and Sanders would be unable to avoid it totally. Look at his compromise on the Veteran's bill, because it's proof that he is willing to make a deal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KingFlorez (Reply #7)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:36 AM

10. Yes

 

"Presidents have to do a lot of compromising to govern and Sanders would be unable to avoid it totally. "

Those on the sidelines like to judge when they have no idea what it's like to be in the actual game

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #10)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:10 PM

14. Are you in the actual game? Are you a political player?

 

No need to provide too much information....But since you expressing such an elevated opinion about how little us "outsiders" are, am curious how much right you have to put people down like that.

And no I'm not a player...I'm engaged in issues on a local level professionally but not among the stratosphere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Armstead (Reply #14)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:20 PM

16. You misunderstood

 

Talking about Bernie judging the decisions of presidents when he has no idea how difficult the job is and the compromise that is required

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #16)

Thu May 26, 2016, 11:25 PM

17. Read what he did as mayor of Burlington

 

You would be very surprised at how effective he was at compromising with opponents to get things done....and actually getting good things done.

He was great at outfoxing his conservative opponents, while also building collaborations with them to actually finding common ground and solving problems

A city is not a nation, but the dynamics of executive style are the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Armstead (Reply #17)

Fri May 27, 2016, 12:19 AM

18. If he understands compromise

 

why the attacks on the Clintons for their supposed lack of progressive purity? Progressive purity cannot exist in this world when dealing with others who do not share your world view. That is why I understand the Clintons and think they've done a great job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #18)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:15 AM

25. There is a difference between compromise and deliberatly going in the wrong direction

 

"Progressive Purity" is a right wing meme that is used to marginalize legitimate concerns and objections

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #18)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:16 AM

26. This is may a waste of time but here's a couple of articles for you

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/10/31/socialist-even-conservative-could-love-burlington-mayor-sanders-was-able-out-republican-republicans/SCmh2TLifXxXRPFKC8NMjO/story.html

As Senator Bernie Sanders’ campaign for the presidency unfurls, there is a surprising truth to be found in his eight-year tenure as mayor of Vermont’s largest city.....Sanders, the unyielding ideologue, who once read Fidel Castro’s biography during a crucial meeting in City Hall, turned out to be a pragmatic and efficient administrator, one so fiscally conservative that some Republicans say he managed to “out-Republican the Republicans.” He just did it his way.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/bernies-burlington-what-k_b_7510704.html

The battle over Northgate Apartments illustrates Sanders’s general approach to governing. In addressing this and many other issues, he encouraged grassroots organizing, adopted local laws to protect the vulnerable, challenged the city’s business power brokers and worked collaboratively with other politicians to create a more livable city.

Now that Sanders, a U.S. Senator from Vermont, is running for president, the eight years he spent as Burlington’s chief executive (1981-89) will be under close scrutiny. Although President Obama recently joked at the White House Correspondents’ Association dinner that Sanders is a “pot-smoking socialist,” he was actually a hardworking, pragmatic, effective mayor who helped transform Vermont’s largest city (population: 38,000) into a thriving town.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #18)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:26 AM

30. Purity is your word.

And I'll use your own words yo answer the question: "dealing with others who do not share your world view"

The Clintons don't even come close beyond their speeches.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Fri May 27, 2016, 01:11 AM

19. Perspective is everything

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #19)

Fri May 27, 2016, 01:37 AM

20. Yeah, let's see how long that graph holds if

 

Sanders ever became president and had to actually deal with a GOP congress to get anything done. This is what purists still aren't grasping.

And btw that graph is pure nonsense

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #20)

Fri May 27, 2016, 08:08 AM

22. "And btw that graph is pure nonsense"

 

You're right...Hillary should be 2-3 boxes higher towards "Authoritarian", at-least equal on that axis with Rubio.

She's also probably slightly closer to the y-axis as a center-right candidate...they have her square in the center of what would be considered the traditional post-Reagan GOP...she's bad, but she isn't that bad. That's Gingrich-level conservative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Reply #20)

Fri May 27, 2016, 10:27 AM

36. Clinton has had less chance to know what a POTUS does

 

Than Sanders. He has had executive branch experience in VT. All Clinton has done as a elected official is a 1 term Senator.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #19)

Fri May 27, 2016, 08:26 AM

24. Political Compass - the people that put major Democrats to the right of Hitler.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #24)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:22 AM

29. I had to go check that claim myself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skinner (Reply #29)

Fri May 27, 2016, 10:48 AM

37. Then you understand where the anti-Clinton people are coming from.

 

And, unlike most of us, you can do something about that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #19)

Fri May 27, 2016, 11:14 AM

38. That chart is BS..here's a factual one

 


Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal.


http://ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Fri May 27, 2016, 08:25 AM

23. See what the pursuit of purity gets you?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:19 AM

27. The name of the SPUSA is "Socialist Party USA".

 

U.S Socialist Party


Never heard of that one.

Any relation to the Democrat Party?



From the article:



As Los Angeles activist and aspiring office holder Mimi Soltysik ponders the Democratic ballot in the race for the White House, the words he blurts out include "warmonger", "imperialist" and "status quo".

And that's before he even turns his attention to Hillary Clinton.

Not every leftist is enamored with Bernie Sanders. Some see him as a sellout.

"He has had a long history of support for war", said Soltysik, who is running under the banner of the Socialist Party USA.






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Fri May 27, 2016, 09:30 AM

31. Mrs. Clinton and Senator Sanders make a good team vs todays, extremist, radical Republicans

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Fri May 27, 2016, 10:07 AM

34. Even you Clinton Democrats should realize that this is actually a progressive step...........

When a major establishment newspaper begins to give press to a true socialist leftist's positions, then that means the political center is beginning to inch back towards the left instead of this decades long hurtle to the right. IF, as most HRC supporters claim, the presumptive nominee IS a "liberal", then moving the center left would be good for her agenda too.

Of course most of today's "liberals" are more scared of "communists" than they are of fascists, so this probably won't be looked at as a progressive step.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to realmirage (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2016, 10:19 AM

41. Mimi Soltysik is an idiot.

 

Nice ideals but literally no strategy to achieve anything. Under his leadership his party will remain irrelevant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread