Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:44 PM May 2016

Do voters in the last primaries deserve to have ANY say in who the nominee is?

However you do the math, even if Bernie has a near impossible path to victory that might include swaying some super-delegates, do those of us in the last few primary states have a right to vote for the candidate of our choice?

Or should Bernie drop out so Hillary and Trump can get right to debating Bill's affairs, Hillary's email, Trump's imported wives, dealings with the mafia, and many bankruptcies (with maybe a side of light issue coverage)?


42 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Bernie should stay in until the primaries are done
32 (76%)
Bernie should stay in until Hillary clinches the nomination with regular delegates (not counting superdelegates)
1 (2%)
Bernie should stay in until Hillary clinches nomination with any combination of regular and superdelegates
4 (10%)
Bernie should drop out now.
1 (2%)
Both should drop out to make it easier for Trump to win.
0 (0%)
OTHER
4 (10%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Do voters in the last primaries deserve to have ANY say in who the nominee is? (Original Post) yurbud May 2016 OP
That's odd, no one is preventing Californians from voting. Trust Buster May 2016 #1
You are wrong. People in California have been lied to. I know this, as I was one of them. n/t truedelphi May 2016 #3
Gotta ask - By whom? tonyt53 May 2016 #4
It's a bit more complicated than "You cannot vote." truedelphi May 2016 #25
The DNC does not control state elections. Someone else has been lying to you. 1StrongBlackMan May 2016 #28
Thank you for a voice of reason tonyt53 May 2016 #32
I was going to add ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2016 #34
which county? Retrograde May 2016 #38
This is Lake County, Calif. Which until now, I had never ever had truedelphi May 2016 #44
You were told you can't vote? Garrett78 May 2016 #19
In 2004, Edwards pulled out AFTER I mailed in my primary ballot voting for him and before the actual yurbud May 2016 #7
Oh, well. I voted in California for nearly 3 decades. Hortensis May 2016 #35
It's over when the magic number is reached...time for the loser beachbumbob May 2016 #2
It would be easier for that "loser" to show class if it was not stolen out from truedelphi May 2016 #5
Probably because they're fiction stories. Try the Disney channel for fairytales. procon May 2016 #21
Oh please-Cue the X Files theme redstateblues May 2016 #53
I am sure she will bow out gracefully after CA. lagomorph777 May 2016 #9
That "loser" stuff is really going to convince Bernie supporters to jump on Hillary's bandwagon yurbud May 2016 #13
I don't think that's the point Armstead May 2016 #17
So what is the point? truedelphi May 2016 #26
I'm a Bernie supporter. I'll leave it to you to figure out. Armstead May 2016 #31
What do you suppose the point of that talking point is? yurbud May 2016 #36
There is no point except an attempt to marginalize and belittle Armstead May 2016 #39
Like that will happen. procon May 2016 #24
Is the position that you describe as belonging to all of us Sanders' supporters truedelphi May 2016 #30
Those are YOUR issues. You'll have to deal with them as best you can. nt procon May 2016 #40
People on DU have said they will vote for Trump? That seems unlikely for longtime progressives yurbud May 2016 #37
Your vote is effected by comments here? GulfCoast66 May 2016 #47
Agreed. Garrett78 May 2016 #48
if these were truly anonymous comments by cranks yurbud May 2016 #54
So you admit GulfCoast66 May 2016 #55
Of course we do dana_b May 2016 #6
I do. It's just the Hillary camp and MSM pushing the Bernie should drop stuff yurbud May 2016 #15
I didn't realize anyone from the Clinton campaign or MSM had called for Sanders to drop out. Garrett78 May 2016 #23
This disgusting trying to push it to the end without it being the end by the MSM and others bkkyosemite May 2016 #8
I voted for other Txbluedog May 2016 #10
No one is stopping them from having their say. hrmjustin May 2016 #11
It's got nothing to do with "having a say" Corporate666 May 2016 #12
They do have a say. NCTraveler May 2016 #14
He should stay in until the delegates and superdelegates actually cast their votes at the convention Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #16
I suggest there be just 4 groupings of states/territories. Garrett78 May 2016 #18
It's not a matter of deserve. it's a matter of stupid voting order. Algernon Moncrieff May 2016 #20
That is EXACTLY how I would do it if I were in charge. auntpurl May 2016 #43
Bernie should stay in until he decides to leave. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #22
California has a 40 million population. Why does anyone think any candidate should drop out before onecaliberal May 2016 #27
Who is saying California shouldn't count? Garrett78 May 2016 #29
Oh please, at least three days of the week there is an OP up about how Bernie should save truedelphi May 2016 #45
I see a lot of posts about how Sanders won't end up with more pledged delegates. Garrett78 May 2016 #46
Other. The nomination has to be won at the convention. mikehiggins May 2016 #33
They did. Clinton won. This is amazing. Did we do this in '08 and I just ignored it? seabeyond May 2016 #41
Of course. So long as they vote for the Debbie-Approved candidate. Buns_of_Fire May 2016 #42
Bernie should stay in until the CONVENTION ROLL CALL VOTE... John Poet May 2016 #49
Yes bigwillq May 2016 #50
all primaries oldandhappy May 2016 #51
We have done our due diligence and our votes matter Land of Enchantment May 2016 #52

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
25. It's a bit more complicated than "You cannot vote."
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:09 PM
May 2016

Anyone in Calif. attempting to change party affiliation from some party to any other party is being told, why not go as a
"Non designated voter."

It is a meme the local Registrar of Voters is using.

They will add, "You still can vote in The Democratic Party Primary. You just don't need to saddle yourself with a party designation."

Okay theoretically that is true. But since the ballots sent out by mail were probably prepared by late April, if the voter going in between May 1st and May 23rd does indeed decide to go without a Party designation, they go home and then
next day they find their ballot in the mail, with the OLD PARTY's designation.

This is where it gets tricky:

So technically they still can vote in the Demcoratic Primary.

[h2][font color=red]

Since they have a ballot with the Old Party's Designation, the voter now needs to know they HAVE TO bring that ballot with them, along with the postal card they will get in the mail proving they are now registered Democratic Party.

That ballot sent by mail has to be spoiled, and turned in, before you' re going to be able to vote.

And even then, they might be told they need to vote on a provisional ballot.
[/h2]
[/font color+red]

I only know all this because I have surrounded myself with some exceptionally knowledgeable people. But
most voters don't know this.

HRC's people, that is, the DNC, control the vote count. Who knows if those provisional ballots than get counted?

Retrograde

(10,203 posts)
38. which county?
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:40 PM
May 2016

i don't think people registering voters are legally allowed to tell you how to register - thats one problem.

since counties run the actual voting ot would be interesting to see which ones may be remiss

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
44. This is Lake County, Calif. Which until now, I had never ever had
Thu May 26, 2016, 06:59 PM
May 2016

Problems with. There was no need for the county worker to even make her comments - she made them as she handed me the new registration form.

She was one of the workers and not the Registrar herself. So I will be calling the Registrar herself now that I realize that this sort of stuff is happening here.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
7. In 2004, Edwards pulled out AFTER I mailed in my primary ballot voting for him and before the actual
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

primary date.

In other elections, the choice can be even narrower by the time of the California primary.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
35. Oh, well. I voted in California for nearly 3 decades.
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:26 PM
May 2016

That's just the way it is. Would we rather California was among the earliest to vote, or even first because, after all, with over 40 millions residents don't they have a special right to create a dialogue of "how can they possibly catch up"? Or don't they?

The principle is one man, one vote, no matter where you live. Instead of whining about knowing who's ahead or even destined to win before I vote, my concern sticks firmly on getting money out of politics.

As for California, I was just grateful that they passed the law that kept those of us in the Pacific time zone from knowing who our next president was going to be before we even voted. It didn't negate my vote in any way, but it did stink.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
5. It would be easier for that "loser" to show class if it was not stolen out from
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:49 PM
May 2016

Under him.

And why doesn't the media cover any of the more contentious legal battles? Where is our forthright media in telling us what is going on?

procon

(15,805 posts)
21. Probably because they're fiction stories. Try the Disney channel for fairytales.
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:34 PM
May 2016

Sanders can't get enough voters interested in him to win. That's his fault, no one else is to blame. All your conspiracy theories may seem real to you, but reasonable people just aren't buying it. No matter what the media says, unless they are offering up hosannas praising Sanders, you loy immediately see some sinister plot and start yelling that you was robbed and the world is out to get you. It's predictable.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
53. Oh please-Cue the X Files theme
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:51 PM
May 2016

Sorry. There is no there there. bernie just had them recount KY-no change

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
36. What do you suppose the point of that talking point is?
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:30 PM
May 2016

The DLC crowd can't help but use it over and over.

I can understand why they THINK it--the base of the Democratic Party doesn't have the money to give in donations that corporate Democrats do, and we certainly can't match the back end bribes of high paying jobs as lobbyists, lawyers, and do nothing board members, nor can we make massive donations to pols foundations or presidential libraries.

But all that being said, they still need our votes, and the shaming and name-calling is more likely to depress turn out and make the election unnecessarily close than if they faked being progressive a little more convincingly.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
39. There is no point except an attempt to marginalize and belittle
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:40 PM
May 2016

Same old stuff....Make the liberal base the "fringe left."

procon

(15,805 posts)
24. Like that will happen.
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:43 PM
May 2016

You lot have built such a big wall around yourselves, nothing can tempt you out. You've backed yourselves into a corner and now you're stuck. Sanders won't be on the GE ballot, and the Hillary hate is just too strong to overcome, so there's Trump which many of you have already proclaimed is you preferred choice, or some outlier third party candidate, or not voting at all, which is still a vote for Trump. I don't envy your position.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
30. Is the position that you describe as belonging to all of us Sanders' supporters
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:17 PM
May 2016

Any worse than the fact that the loyalists to this party have saddled us with a person who is Pro-Big War, even endless wars that destroy the small nations like Libya and Syria where the military actions are supposed to help?

A person who is more for Visas for non-Americans to get the few remaining American jobs?

Who has no real plans to do good for the nation, just to continue her husband's legacy of "I'd have liked to enacted more progressive policies, but the damn republicans would not let me."


But because the DNC is bought and paid for (as is Clinton herself) the American public is saddled with this nightmare of Trump vs Hillary.

In addition to that, she probably cannot beat Trump. Due to the fact that to Sanders supporters, her positions are transparent. She is a neo con who loves Henry Kissinger and doesn't have a liberal bone in her body.

Had she been a person of integrity, it would have been easy for her to adopt Sanders' positions and convince us Sanders' supporters that she would indeed become a totally progressive President. But right now, she is seen as what she is: a neo con who has never met a Big Banker she didn't love, or a big Russian Business person she wasn't willing to do business with, regardless of the cost to real people in this country as well as in Russia.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
37. People on DU have said they will vote for Trump? That seems unlikely for longtime progressives
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:33 PM
May 2016

Though I have talked to independents who back Bernie but would switch to Trump if it was him versus Hillary.

I could never vote for Trump for a lot of reasons, but primarily even if he said a couple of things I agree with, we have no way in hell of knowing what he will even try to do since he has never held political office, and until about five minutes ago, never collected any campaign donations.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
47. Your vote is effected by comments here?
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:24 PM
May 2016

No ones vote should be based on what anonymous commenters on a public forum say? You just admitted yours is. Pretty much proves the point that you, and in my opinion many Bernie voters are emotion based voters. No insulting comment by anyone on a website should effect a rational voters opinion. I do not really like either candidate, but both are better than a republican.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
54. if these were truly anonymous comments by cranks
Fri May 27, 2016, 01:22 PM
May 2016

Which I thought they were (or GOP trolls) early in the Obama administration, until I heard the same "hippie punching" in almost identical words from Obama's press secretary and others in the admin.

Also, why shouldn't we demand more than that our candidates merely be five percent better than a party that is syphillitically insane?

Should you leave your kid with someone who is five percent a better parent than casey anthony?

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
55. So you admit
Fri May 27, 2016, 04:55 PM
May 2016

You let comments here effect you vote.

Laughable man. Try turning down the emotions.

Your last 2 sentences were word salad. Syphilis and Casey Anthony? You have jumped the shark.

dana_b

(11,546 posts)
6. Of course we do
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

we should have as much right as New Hampshire, Iowa, etc.

Bernie said that he would be in this until the convention months ago. Why didn't people believe him?

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
23. I didn't realize anyone from the Clinton campaign or MSM had called for Sanders to drop out.
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:41 PM
May 2016

Do you have a quote or a link?

I know some on DU have suggested he should drop out, but it seems most folks have no issue with him remaining in the race through June 14th.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
8. This disgusting trying to push it to the end without it being the end by the MSM and others
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

is going to piss off a lot of people including Californians. She is not the nominee nor will be unless she has more delegates. We then go to convention to see about the crazy stupid super garbage to keep out grass roots movements....crap. just crap. (venting) Oh then we go to the convention and see how that turns out...

 

Txbluedog

(1,128 posts)
10. I voted for other
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:54 PM
May 2016

I have no problems with Bernie staying in till the 15th of June, but he needs to stop attacking the party. Also once Hillary reaches a pledged delegate majority (2026) game over. He knows very well that the super delegates are not going to switch over and support the 2nd place finisher. Didn't happen in 2008 and won't happen now

Corporate666

(587 posts)
12. It's got nothing to do with "having a say"
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:59 PM
May 2016

Everyone has the same say - but because it is a points race over time, it naturally means that votes taken at critical times have more of an effect on the final results.

As it happens, Clinton has an insurmountable lead. Everyone still has a say, but it's just that enough people have already had their say and they said "Clinton" that there aren't enough people who may say "Sanders" to make a difference.

Consider the alternative scenario where both candidates are tied neck and neck and putting all their efforts into the last races. Would it be fair that late voters get "more say" just because the race is close when it's their turn to vote?

Of course not. It's the nature of the game.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
14. They do have a say.
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:06 PM
May 2016

Just not as much of one if they went early. So much of it is on state parties. California set themselves up to be the kingmaker if it was close this primary. It isn't so their say is a bit more limited.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
16. He should stay in until the delegates and superdelegates actually cast their votes at the convention
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:15 PM
May 2016

In other words complete the entire race.

He shouldn't don't drop out early just because he is behind.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
18. I suggest there be just 4 groupings of states/territories.
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:19 PM
May 2016

Every 1-2 months, 12-13 states would hold primaries. So, there would be 4 groupings. Each group would represent the various regions of the US and these groups would rotate each election.

All primaries. No caucuses, which suppress the vote.

No superdelegates.

3 days for voting, including a Saturday, so as to increase turnout. In other words, have the polls open Thursday through Saturday.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,798 posts)
20. It's not a matter of deserve. it's a matter of stupid voting order.
Thu May 26, 2016, 04:22 PM
May 2016

Let's just mail ballots to registered Democrats in every state and everyone mail back their ballot and then count all the ballots on the same day.

onecaliberal

(33,049 posts)
27. California has a 40 million population. Why does anyone think any candidate should drop out before
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:12 PM
May 2016

we vote? Unless you are behind by more delegates than the state allocates. I'm sick of people thinking we shouldn't count.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
29. Who is saying California shouldn't count?
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:16 PM
May 2016

This is like the straw man about how people need to stop claiming Clinton will reach 2383 via pledged delegates alone. Nobody is claiming that.

It's been evident since mid-March that Clinton will end up with a majority of pledged delegates. That in no way suggests California, Montana, New Jersey, DC and others shouldn't count.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
45. Oh please, at least three days of the week there is an OP up about how Bernie should save
Thu May 26, 2016, 07:02 PM
May 2016

The World by pulling out RIGHT NOW.

And the media does their bit too. But unless you spend time at Democracy Now or at Greg Palast's site, you don't get any of the truth:

http://gregpalast.com/media-fabricates-sanders-riot-buries-the-real-story

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
46. I see a lot of posts about how Sanders won't end up with more pledged delegates.
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:10 PM
May 2016

And I see the occasional call for him to drop out. I can point to far more posts on DU about how Clinton should not be the nominee (even posts saying she should drop out), about how she can't reach 2383 via pledged delegates alone (as if anyone has been arguing otherwise), and so on.

Of course, I'm not sure what any of that has to do with saying the remaining primaries shouldn't count or that people shouldn't vote in them. I don't see anyone suggesting anything of the sort, just as I don't see anyone suggesting that Clinton will reach 2383 via pledged delegates alone. DU is littered with straw men.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
33. Other. The nomination has to be won at the convention.
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:20 PM
May 2016

After all, as Hillary Clinton pointed out in 2008, Bobby Kennedy.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,226 posts)
42. Of course. So long as they vote for the Debbie-Approved candidate.
Thu May 26, 2016, 06:16 PM
May 2016

For the rest, I support immediate loss of citizenship and deportation, with their assets being divided between the Clinton Foundation (75%) and the True Believers (5%). (The remaining 20% will be retained by the DNC for administrative overhead and processing charges.)

I know it seems a little harsh, but that's what Bill suggested when we talked a few minutes ago.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
50. Yes
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:31 PM
May 2016

The candidates should stay in until the primaries are over and until a nominee is officially confirmed.

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
51. all primaries
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:34 PM
May 2016

It is called the primary season! Then we have conventions. Then we have the general election.

Land of Enchantment

(1,217 posts)
52. We have done our due diligence and our votes matter
Thu May 26, 2016, 11:44 PM
May 2016

just as much as everyone else's who have voted before us. Uh, well we will see how many of us are suddenly republicans or 'other' on election day after being lifelong democrats. On second thought, nope, our votes probably will not be counted given the history of this fucking primary season.

Kick in to the DU tip jar?

This week we're running a special pop-up mini fund drive. From Monday through Friday we're going ad-free for all registered members, and we're asking you to kick in to the DU tip jar to support the site and keep us financially healthy.

As a bonus, making a contribution will allow you to leave kudos for another DU member, and at the end of the week we'll recognize the DUers who you think make this community great.

Tell me more...

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Do voters in the last pri...