Expecting Sanders Supporters to "Close Ranks?"

[Ferd Berfel]

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/22/expecting-sanders-supporters-close-ranks

Think again. Here's why many won't.

"Expecting people to 'close ranks' around the Democratic nominee harkens back to a time that no longer exists."

When the Clinton campaign and the corporate press call for Sanders to drop out and turn his supporters over to Hillary, they reveal just how out of touch they are. Sanders’ army is not his to command. They arose out of a profound dissatisfaction over politics as usual, and many – if not most – will not be persuaded to vote for a status quo politician they perceive to be part of the problem, no matter how frightening a Trump Presidency could be.

Here are some of the reasons why:

Reason #1 – Party Affiliation Doesn’t Matter as Much as it Used to. In 1960, 75 percent of Americans belonged to one of the major political parties, and just 20 percent claimed to be independents. Today, 44 percent of Americans call themselves independents, and only a little over half of the people belong to a party. Most of the dropouts came from the Democratic Party, which claimed 50 percent of Americans in 1960. For the most part, Republicans have hovered between 20 and 25%, standing at 23% today.

(snip)

Reason #2 – The Myth of the Centrist Majority and the Disenfranchisement of the People. Democrats’ share of voters fell sharply after Carter, and continued to fall thereafter, as the DLC brand of corporate centrist Democrats took over the party – something both Clintons embraced whole-heartedly. In short, as the party abandoned the people, the people abandoned the party. The further Democrats drifted from the New Deal, the more ground they lost.

(snip)

"The oligarchs controlling the Party believed people had nowhere else to go, particularly with Republicans having a protracted psychotic breakdown, and until Sanders, it worked."

(snip)

Reason #3 -- In Response to their Diminished Status, the Democratic Party Moved to Protect the Entrenched Status Quo, rather than to Assure a Democratic Process. Closed primaries shut out independents -- the largest block of voters -- and in some states, including New York, rules made it difficult for the young or newly interested voters to engage.

(snip)

Reason #4 -- The Rise of the Oligarchy: In their landmark study, Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups and Average Citizens, Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page found that the US was functionally an Oligarchy, not a democracy.

more...................................

[Dr Hobbitstein]

6. Enjoy your stay!

[pinebox]

2. Yup, this election is a lot different

People who think Bernie supporters will just close ranks are living in a time which existed 50 years ago.

[Ferd Berfel]

5. Falling into lock-step is something that the Conservative, Republican-lite brain

perceives as pragmatic. Not so much Liberals and Progressives.

[pinebox]

12. What I don't understand

is why so many Dems think Hillary is a progressive when her stances show us otherwise.

[Ferd Berfel]

14. I think it's the 'What's the matter with Kansas' syndrome

THe conservative brain likes (maybe NEEDS) to fall into lock-step -

Bob Altemeyer's - The Authoritarians

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[pinebox]

17. Great article

[bahrbearian]

20. She showed she was progressive when she said she couldn't support TPP in its current form.

We all know its current form will change and so will she.

[Ferd Berfel]

42. yes she will but...for the better or....?

SPin usually doesn't stop on good things for the 99%.

ANd at this point, with all of the lies and triangulation - I'd never believe her.

Round and round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows.

[bahrbearian]

49. Clinton speak, definition of is?

[larkrake]

73. She lied about that, she will implement TPP and the more destructive deals in he wings too

[GoneFishin]

13. The pragmatic thing for civil rights protestors to do in the 60's was to stay home and avoid being

beaten and arrested by cops, and bitten by police dogs. They were so irrational back then.

[Robbins]

9. look

clintons,her surrogates,and supporters have called us bernie supporters every name in the book.and the issues we support bernie
on is not clinton's issues.I am 42 years old so i am not just coming into this with naive.

There has been massive voter fraud that makes what bush did in 2000 and 2004 look mild.

Despite all this they expect us to vote for Clinton.That's a good one.many of us are progressive anti-war and against wall street or on social safety net.CLinton doesn't support us or our issues.

my vote can't be bought.of course as liberal In Missouri my vote is basicly ilrelvent.so why should i vote against my self intrests
for candiate who isn't for me and my issues.

17% of clinton supporters voted for mccain In 2008 and noone critized them.

Bernie could endorse clinton and campagin for her and it wouldn't change my mind.I dislike clintons almost as much as republicans.

[pinebox]

11. Yup. The times are different.

Hillary and her supporters refuse to see and acknowledge this.

[GoneFishin]

3. Bernie represents my interests. The second he asks me to vote for someone who doesn't, I'm done

supporting him.

[Ferd Berfel]

7. BIngo

[samrock]

4. These are probably the same people

Who thought there was no difference between Al Gore and George W Bush

[Robbins]

10. typical clinton supporter

trying to ignore the issue and attack bernie supporters instead of asking why progressives don't like CLinton.why people who would
have supported elizabeth warren won't vote for clinton.

[samrock]

60. To be honest...

I do not care if Bernie or Hillary is the nominee. I do care that we not repeat the mistakes of 2000 and end up with the worst Only this time it would be much worse!!!

[Robbins]

70. 2000 happened because of the clintons

yeah i voted for clinton in 1992 but we actully lost election because he caused republicans to win In 1994.we could have elected a true dem in 1996 against quayle instead of DLC type.

clinton as nominee is going to be terrable for dems and country even if she wins.

[samrock]

81. So Obama is not a democrat either

Look what happened in 2010. 2 years after he got in office

[Robbins]

83. another corporate neoliberal democrat

we all who supported him to get out of iraq were played for suckers.when he is working with republicans and attacking elisabeth warren it proved how wrong so many of us were.

[brooklynite]

8. Party affiliation has nothing to do with it...

There will be two Presidential candidates that have a chance of winning the Presidential Election. One will be Hillary Clinton. The other will be Donal Trump. Not making a choice is making a choice.

[Autumn]

16. Wrong. Not making a choice is indeed making a choice.

If a candidate is repugnant to a voter not voting for that candidate is making a choice to honor one's own values.

[Ferd Berfel]

21. It's also refusing to fear,

or even acknowledge the 'gun' that someone, who is not representing your best interests, has put to your head.

[Autumn]

28. I no longer do fear.

[Ferd Berfel]

31. ..

[Autumn]

48. When a politician can't convince the voters they are looking out for them and give them a reason to

get out there and vote for them any loss falls on that politician. Unfortunately the young and many older voters see that the democratic party isn't looking out for their interests. Oh sure they will toss the voters a bone once in a while. A bone with all the meat scraps carefully removed.

People don't make wise choices when they are full of fear, that's why these politicians and their surrogates have used it for so long.

[brooklynite]

22. ...provided you're willing to accept the increased chance that the other candidate will win.

[Autumn]

32. If the other candidate in any election is stronger, they will win. The loss

of the weaker candidate is on that candidate and the party who backed them, not the voter. When it comes down to," I'm not as bad as the ones on other side" there's a real fucking problem.

[Silver_Witch]

46. This^^

The democratic party ran Hillary - they must accept the outcome and take responsibility for that choice as will all those who voted for Hillary in the primary knowing who she is and the baggage she carries.

It is a sad commentary when the loser can blame those who did not support them for their loss.

Hillary supporters are quick to point this out...until of course they loose in November and then it will be the fault of those who sought a different way.

[Autumn]

68. Young people and many older dems have no interest in voting for politicians who

put their own interests first over the needs of the people they expect to vote for them. For the last 14 years or so it has been obvious that the elected democrats have been doing just that. I'm voting for a politician to do a job, look out for my needs and my rights not banks, corporations and their wealthy donors. If they can't do that fuck em why should I keep voting for them?

[Shadowflash]

72. Yup. HRC and her supporters

Should thank their lucky stars that the GOP nominated a clown like Trump, that not even THEY like. She is barely running even with him in the poles. If the GOP nominated someone even mildly competent, HRC wouldn't even stand a chance.

All the stars are lined up to even get HER elected and it's STILL gonna be iffy.

Sure Blame the Sanders supporters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. New to political science theory I see

[grossproffit]

15. I'll just work harder. It won't be the first time and I'm okay with it.

Peace.

[pinebox]

18. People are unable to work harder

and therein lies the difference.

Millions have 2 jobs now whereas they didn't before and they make pennies. This is one issue I have a serious issue with Hillary on. I don't trust someone who can't even support a living wage and was on the board for the largest retailer in the world, a retailer who has a notorious history of retaliating against their employees who wanted to start a union. Most Walmart employees are on food stamps and yet Hillary was on their board? Is receiving donations from their heiress? http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/alice-walton-donated-353400-clintons-victory-fund

No.

[grossproffit]

29. I work 60-80 hours a week and I'll make the time to work harder. Like I said, I'm used to it.

I used to work closer to 100 hrs per week prior to becoming my own boss full time. I know all about having 2-3 jobs, I had both a full time job and part time job while attending college. I don't mind heavy lifting. I do it all the time.

[pinebox]

35. You said it! :)

See, "Like I said, I'm used to it."
And THAT is what has happened. You've become used to something which never should have happened to begin with! Complacency equals submission! FIGHT for you and FIGHT for what's right.

Nobody should have to work 2 jobs to make it. The only exception is living far beyond your means. If you have a 40 hour a week job you ought to be able to make it. It shouldn't be a struggle.

[HereSince1628]

19. I expect most Sanders supporting democrats to go with HRC

It wouldn't surprise me if most Dem-leaning independents do the same thing.

BUT,

Voting for HRC is not the same as abandoning criticism of her from the left or criticism and activism against the Neoliberal New Dems. I expect those things to continue as they pretty much have with growing strength for over a decade.

I don't expect progressive democrats, who by dint of character expect more and are impatient to get it, are going to just disperse after the convention.

They may be run off this board, but probably not out of democratic politics. Dems still do need voters and as it stands pretty close to half of Dems have bought into the need for progressive reform of the democratic party.

[beachbum bob]

25. agree with you and why democratic party is a big tent party

I here all the same nonsense of taking our ball home and not support hillary...and they think their lives will NOT be impacted if trump is sitting in the whitehouse and he and a conservative congress guts everything?

I can't believe any appreciable number of sanders supporters would stand for this and why the majority will vote for hillary in the end

[Ferd Berfel]

27. "going to just disperse after the convention. "

That's what happened after the TPP, and put Social security on the chopping block "progressive" (Obama) made it and gave us the "I got this, you can go home now"

Regardless of what happens by/at the Convention, I would be very surprised if Bernie allowed that to happen under his watch. Very Surprised.

[dana_b]

57. he is already encouraging them to work on issues together WITHOUT him

via The People's Summit. I so wish that lived ANYWHERE near there as I would love to go!

thepeoplessummit.org

[Ferd Berfel]

62. HEre's another

The continuing Fight - THE NEXT STEP
A group of Bernie's campaign staff split off of the campaign to start Bernie's next assault.

http://brandnewcongress.org/home

[dana_b]

64. awesome! and there is a meet up in my city

Thanks for the link!

[Ferd Berfel]

66. Pleasure

[Robbins]

33. voting for clinton

will get progressives nothing.she and neoliberal new dems will push their corporist and necon agenda.the pprimary proved that many who claimed to be liberal are really neoliberal.I am talking primaly about barbara boxes,sherod brown,and al Franken.
people who claim to be liberal had choice for true progressive but instead went for neoliberal.I want forget it.

There will be no reform of democratic party with clinton as nominee.she will reward those loyal to her.DWS won't go anywhere.she
helped clinton secure the nomination.

I will vote for democrat for president again when they are true progressive and they didn't endorse Clinton VS Bernie.

[HereSince1628]

47. IMO, getting future progressive pres candidates depends on gaining influence within the dem party

Let's look at that problem of getting influence...

The Dems are behind 8 seats in the Senate. Because of the degrees of freedom involved, when you gain a seat you also take away a seat from the other side. So a change of 1 is actually a change of 2...

To protect SCOTUS from Trump, OR to give the Dem President power to seat a justice requires confirmation by the senate and it's control. That means leveling the balance of the senate by winning 5 seats. Five seats that were progressive, and one of them is already expected to go to Feingold. That leaves progressives to identify and swing 4 more seats to have -REALLY- important influence in the senate.

Four.

Millions of identifiied Bernie supporting progressives giving 27 divided by 4 dollars to progressives challenging seated republican senators, isn't impossible and it would surely have an influence.

Need I mention Canova's run against DWS?

Progressives must win influence through the existing process, but it's entirely possible to be in a position of more and better influence on the party after the 2018 midterms.

[Robbins]

54. dems will get killed in 2018 midterms if clinton manages to win

and with Trump we may be looking at permeant gop government in country anyway.

The house is pointless till after 2020 redistricting.and thanks to dems surcide mission to nominate clinton they may have assured
republicans control redistricting which will ensure GOP house till at least 2032

dems will probally lose at least 2 seats in senate In 2018-missouri and west virginia

[HereSince1628]

59. I think 3rd way dems like HRC -are- going to get hammered in 2018

Not just because R's will be motivated like they were in 2010, but because progressives only choice to work for influence is to challenge the anti-progressive dems from inside the party. That's tough, but that's the reality of having politicians so out of touch with their base.

[Ferd Berfel]

71. damn - you're right

before, I was only depressed

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. I expect low turnout

Why? Well...whatever

[HereSince1628]

85. Yes, well, it's looking to be interesting rather than exciting...

or so that other thread stated.

I think that's pretty close to a Chinese curse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. It is one.

[TwilightZone]

23. 70-80% of his supporters have indicated in polls that they'll support Clinton in November

and Sanders hasn't even dropped out yet. Expect that number to grow, much to your apparent dismay.

DU isn't representative of reality. Neither is most of the stuff on CD.

[Robbins]

45. your crazy if you think all bernie supporters will vote for her

some polls have indicated as much as 33% of his supporters won't vote for her.

But,then again clinton has said his supporters are ilrelvent and idiots so good luck with beating trump without a good number of us.

[elana i am]

24. this...

Sanders’ army is not his to command.

this is very important. i'm a sanders supporter because for me it's the issues. it's not gender, not age, it's not party loyalty. i always have and always will vote for the candidate who espouses my progressive beliefs. the belief that bernie sanders is just the ringleader of a cult of personality is wrong. i'm not a sycophant. if at some point sanders says to support clinton that's his prerogative, but i won't be following him. it would mean he places a higher priority on going along to get along than i do. but i have my own principles and i don't disregard them for any one or any reason. i never have and never will vote for candidates whom i consider to be the antithesis of my beliefs.

[Mike__M]

77. Exactly.

And I'm pretty sure Bernie know this about us.

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. Nothing will close the enthusiasm gap if Hillary has the nod

Most would "support her" to varying degrees, but that really only means vote for her against Trump, beyond that would be a real stretch.

[Ferd Berfel]

30. The RW Dems don't care why you vote for her as long as she wins.

Voting against Trump is good enough. As long as they can continue the Reagan/CLinton/Obama wall street agenda, they're fine.

If she pulls this off, once she in the WH you won't matter.....again.

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. Tell me something I don't alraedy know. n/t

One way to interpret an "enthusiasm gap" is a deficit in energy. My political energy would shift elsewhere. But I already know that RW Democrats won't be satisfied with my vote alone. If Hillary run and loses they will attempt to shift the blame onto the Left for "sitting on their hands", as if who they run should have no influence on how the public reacts.

[Ferd Berfel]

38. ...you misspelled "alraedy"

Kidding.......

Happy Memorial Day

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. LOL

Same to you! As an aside, my keyboard is droppng letters (like it just did there) and my corrective insert was poorly placed. But it has made for some pretty funny typos - I really should collect them.

[Ferd Berfel]

44. Hardware failure....not Operator error?

I was in IT tech management for bout 35 years.....I've heard THAT before.......

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. Soon humans will be reduced to blaming everything on machines

We have to get something out of being automated out of productive livelihoods

[Ferd Berfel]

56. blaming everything on machines

I"m 66....I do it all the time




ok enough

[pinebox]

36. Neither will Hillary when she is impeached on day 1

which Republicans are already calling for.
She had better have a great VP candidate is all I can say

[Ferd Berfel]

39. If she manages to pull this off

without being forced out - that's what will happen. Hearings, Committees, subpoenas, finally impeachment attempts.

The Reich will never stop.

[pinebox]

43. +1 nt

[baldguy]

41. More cheerleading for the Trump campaign.

June 7 can't come too soon.

[hollysmom]

53. please - am I the only person who does not believe that Trump wil run?

counting on this one person to run is a big mistake, I predict Jebbie will be back. I could be wrong, but I don't think so and if it is not Trump, Clinton is setting up the Dems for a fall.

[Henhouse]

61. FYI

On Sun May 29, 2016, 11:24 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

More cheerleading for the Trump campaign.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2079982

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No one on this thread is supporting Trump. This comment is just flame bait. Yes we have so much of it now it is hard to say this is worse than any other. However, this thread is generally pretty sane and then comes the one guy who has to imply anyone supporting a DEMOCRATIC candidate is supporting Trump. Seriously please stop.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 29, 2016, 11:33 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agreed. Being for Bernie does not mean being for Trump!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The OP:"Expecting people to 'close ranks' around the Democratic nominee harkens back to a time that no longer exists.". How is this supporting the eventual Democratic nominee? The OP says exactly the opposite. REALITY: If you don't vote for the Dem. nominee you are supporting Trump.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I would not hide this if it were just a sour insult but will hide it because there is no truth in this comment. Grow up.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Mild for DU. But please self-delete this inflammatory post.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[baldguy]

75. Par for the course.

Sanders fans can openly campaign against Democrats, the Democratic Party, and the Democratic nominee for President, but when the meaning & the inevitable outcome of that stance is plainly stated in a post, they deny the truth & try to hide it.

[restorefreedom]

82. you are looking forward to bernie winning cali?

cool! welcome to the bernie train!!

[hollysmom]

52. Close ranks - lets see.

since this election, here and on other boards. I have been told by some Clinton supporters-
1) I am not a democrat because I supported Sanders - still have not voted people! this after 50 years of voting democratic and working inthe local party
2) get out of the democratic party because things have changed and my liberal ideas are not wanted. I am out of touch, go join another party
3) get off this board
4) Hillary does not need my vote.
5) voting is over my vote does not count - don't vote even this week yet, sigh.

and now I am supposed to close ranks and chip[ in my pittance to be lost among the lobbyist money?
after being told not to follow Sanders, I should follow when he tells me to vote for someone else.because what? I have no mind of my own?

It is always up to the candidate to win my vote, not up to someone to assign me to them,
that is how it works people!

[Ferd Berfel]

69. "...up to the candidate to win my vote, not up to someone to assign me to them,..."

It is always up to the candidate to win my vote, not up to someone to assign me to them,
that is how it works people!

Exactly!

[still_one]

55. "The System Isn’t ‘Rigged’ Against Sanders. Clinton's winning because more DEMOCRATS want her to be

the nominee."

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

[brooklynite]

74. Guss hou forgot that Clinton voted against the Bush tax cuts in 2001

...and then voted to rescind them in 2007.

[HassleCat]

67. Many will. Some will not.

Clinton says about 40 percent of her supporters were "Hillary or bust" when Obama locked up the nomination. Of course, her supporters are more likely to be loyal Democrats than Bernie's supporters, but - and this is important - the Sanders effort has attracted many people who were not interested. Some of those people will drop out when Clinton locks up the nomination, but some will stay with the party, so we probably have a net gain.

[Zambero]

79. Most will, some won't

Same with Trump and the GOP. Some in the "Establishment /Romney" and "Neo-Conservative" wings will never support him, but most of them are falling in line. It will only require so many exposures to the unthinkable scenario of a Trump presidency for the larger share of progressives to come around to backing Hillary, even if she is nowhere close to being the ideal candidate.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

76. excellent.. sums up my arguements and feelings perfectly

My oldest said yesterday he will vote for trump over clinton. Ugh. 20 minutes later i convinced him to look closer at Jill Stein, or just leave the presidential blank instead.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Voting for a label is like buying a car based on the color of its glove compartment.

The electorate has become more sophisticated due to the internet. More cynical about politics. And, no longer impressed by "not as bad" and "lesser of two evils" admonitions. And, far less impressed by politics-as-usual, endorsements, commercials, attempt to manipulate them.

They have learned to think for themselves.

[Feathery Scout]

80. I had hoped for unity at first; but now we will just have to do the best we can.

The primary is still on and Sanders is fighting tooth and nail, attacking Hillary and the DNC in an effort to win.

Some are angry and feel he is damaging her needlessly, as she is almost certainly the winner and they feel Trump is the true enemy. (I feel this way)

Some feel he is justified and fighting for every advantage; and that his statements against HRC/Democratic Party aren't damaging. (I believe this is Sanders' position)

I....accept there will be a split in his supporters. Some will go with HRC, many will not.

So be it. We will do the best we can.

Our main goal is to keep Trump out and continue Obama's legacy. At least in my eyes, that is the goal of this election.

[HereSince1628]

87. I woulda hoped for something more progressive than Obama's legacy

but hope and yes we can has become, no point in hoping for ponies, we can't do that.