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Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:45 PM

We always hear about the 3 million+ voters for HRC.

Where did they come from? That is what matters.

During the early votes in the Southern part of the
country Bernie was not known very well, and neither
was O'Malley.

Thus both of those candidates were not given the
same chance as the overwhelmingly well known
Clinton.

In my view O'Malley was a year too late to become
a well known candidate, and Bernie was 6-8 months
behind as well.

The debates were set up in such a way that not many
dems watched them: One during an important sports
event, the other the Saturday before Christmas. Who
arranged for this???

It made me very angry at the time, that most of the time
during the debates was concentrating on HRC, Bernie was
second, and O'Malley was almost ignored.

Just think for a moment how different these primaries
would have been without HRC. No scandals, no baggage
and a very fair voting choice. I think, under those
circumstances O'Malley may have won, because he offered
new ideas without being called a "socialist".

It makes me sad to see the media and the DNC insisting
on the candidate with the biggest unfavorable ratings,
which would not have happened between the other two.

121 replies, 6812 views

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Reply We always hear about the 3 million+ voters for HRC. (Original post)
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 OP
seabeyond Jun 2016 #1
LuvLoogie Jun 2016 #2
roguevalley Jun 2016 #39
FreakinDJ Jun 2016 #105
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #3
RobertEarl Jun 2016 #8
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #9
RobertEarl Jun 2016 #13
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #91
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #53
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #59
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #60
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #61
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #63
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #66
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #68
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #70
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #73
BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #82
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #87
MadBadger Jun 2016 #107
moriah Jun 2016 #117
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #118
moriah Jun 2016 #120
moriah Jun 2016 #119
redstateblues Jun 2016 #62
appalachiablue Jun 2016 #64
sheshe2 Jun 2016 #72
moriah Jun 2016 #89
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #102
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #10
NJCher Jun 2016 #11
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #17
NJCher Jun 2016 #34
sheshe2 Jun 2016 #49
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #52
sheshe2 Jun 2016 #55
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #25
Seeinghope Jun 2016 #16
Hiraeth Jun 2016 #31
Seeinghope Jun 2016 #109
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #104
Seeinghope Jun 2016 #110
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #114
lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #106
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #108
Seeinghope Jun 2016 #112
Seeinghope Jun 2016 #113
Adrahil Jun 2016 #121
RobertEarl Jun 2016 #4
seabeyond Jun 2016 #6
JudyM Jun 2016 #71
seabeyond Jun 2016 #77
JudyM Jun 2016 #78
seabeyond Jun 2016 #79
Lord Magus Jun 2016 #100
SFnomad Jun 2016 #5
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #7
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #12
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #14
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #37
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #38
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #40
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #41
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #42
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #43
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #44
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #46
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #50
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #51
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #45
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #47
NJCher Jun 2016 #18
hrmjustin Jun 2016 #19
Tarc Jun 2016 #15
okasha Jun 2016 #21
tandem5 Jun 2016 #74
MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #20
oberliner Jun 2016 #22
Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #23
beachbumbob Jun 2016 #24
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #27
Nonhlanhla Jun 2016 #92
LineReply .
RandySF Jun 2016 #26
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #30
bigwillq Jun 2016 #28
stillwaiting Jun 2016 #85
bigwillq Jun 2016 #86
stillwaiting Jun 2016 #88
Trust Buster Jun 2016 #29
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #32
Trust Buster Jun 2016 #35
jonmac511 Jun 2016 #93
Trust Buster Jun 2016 #94
jonmac511 Jun 2016 #95
jack_krass Jun 2016 #33
Trust Buster Jun 2016 #36
sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #48
Henhouse Jun 2016 #57
Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #54
justiceischeap Jun 2016 #56
GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #65
Electric Monk Jun 2016 #69
GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #58
onecaliberal Jun 2016 #67
LaydeeBug Jun 2016 #75
Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #76
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #84
Voice for Peace Jun 2016 #116
quaker bill Jun 2016 #80
pdsimdars Jun 2016 #81
randome Jun 2016 #83
Henhouse Jun 2016 #90
randome Jun 2016 #96
onenote Jun 2016 #97
geek tragedy Jun 2016 #98
Lord Magus Jun 2016 #99
yardwork Jun 2016 #101
A Little Weird Jun 2016 #103
DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2016 #111
noiretextatique Jun 2016 #115

Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:47 PM

1. Lol. See, someone suggested caucus count for two. But they just do not draw enough people. I said,

 

That we are dismissing the south vote. That will make Sanders the winner.

And here is your post.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:55 PM

2. There's also the scenario where Hillary is removed from the primary altogether.

Then everything would have been free, tranquil and fair.

Hillary is only winning and getting votes because she's running in the primary.

Is this really what bouys them? If you chain yourself to an anvil, you might drown.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:05 PM

39. considering that HRC supporters dismiss every state she doesn't win as not diverse, etc

INCLUDING Hawaii, I think you laugh too soon. I agree with the OP. Given that Bernie has come from a 60-80 point deficit to holding her hostage to her ambitions, its remarkable. What is also remarkable that the anointed one has not nailed this shut and won't.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #39)


Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:56 PM

3. You know what makes me sad? That people judge those of us who live in the southern states

as some kind of backwards people who are so ignorant that we can't keep up with current events or that we are so unsophisticated that we dont know what the issues are. Please don't use us as an excuse as to why your candidate didn't perform better in the primaries. I'm tired of the south being a scapegoat for Bernie's problems.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:00 PM

8. Southerners have been taken advantage of

 

Why we allow that, I don't know. But damn, the racism I see here is just ridiculous.

It's a long tradition in the south to disrespect outsiders. Bernie is an outsider, fer sure, so there is that.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:03 PM

9. Bullshit. Did Bernie bother to come to the south to introduce himself?

He might have done a little better if he had.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:08 PM

13. Yes he did

 

I guess you missed that? How did you miss that?

Maybe because the media you were tuned to hardly ever even mentioned Bernie? The media I saw was 90% republican, 9% Hillary and 1% Bernie.

Only 13% of South Carolinians voted in the D primary. That means 87% didn't care, or didn't know.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:44 AM

91. This is false on its face, Weaver and Divine OPENLY ADMITTED to not competing in "southern states"

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:43 PM

53. Bernie held large successful rallies in Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans,

No. VA, Kentucky and other places. The events and news were posted here.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #53)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:59 PM

59. How do you define success?

Hillary won in TX, GA, LA, VA and KY.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #59)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:03 AM

60. When 15,000 people come out to hear a person speak I consider that success, yes.

Clinton and Bernie essentially tied in KY. How do you define appeal, enthusiasm and interest?

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #60)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:04 AM

61. Who got the votes? That seems to be the measure of success in elections.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:09 AM

63. 'The votes' is brought up here constantly and it's all that matters to some, yes.

Those who are inspired and motivated to hear and support Sanders still matter tremendously.

How many people have showed up at Clinton events?

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #63)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:21 AM

66. Rally attendance doesn't equal votes. The rock star type rallies don't seem to be working as well

as the smaller, more intimate meet and greet venues.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #66)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:24 AM

68. Since you claim small, meet and greet affairs do well, how did that work for Obama?

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:26 AM

70. What does Obama have to do with this? I didn't know he was running.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:31 AM

73. Obama was the last Democratic presidential candidiate elected

and you brought up Rock Star rally events. Do you recall his campaign events in 2008 and 2012? Maybe not.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #73)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:43 AM

82. There was no primary process in 2012, it was a formality.

 

You also seem to be ignoring the Sanders campaign claims that they "didn't try to compete" in those Southern states they lost so badly.

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Response to BobbyDrake (Reply #82)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:30 AM

87. I'm not ignoring anything concerning this this election, know it.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:04 AM

107. They didnt always work well.

Obama had very large rallies in states he lost

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #63)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:08 PM

117. When it comes to elections, no, crowds don't matter if those people don't then go vote.

For Hillary, she does better in intimate groups, because voters get to see her more closely. Yes, Bernie was having to work to get name recognition. Hillary is working to get "human being with emotions and not really a calculating conniving insert your misogynistic insult here" recognition.

Each require different strategies in rally presentation and venue choice.

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Response to moriah (Reply #117)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:35 PM

118. Interesting the small crowd strategy. I've never seen a presidential candidate,

someone campaigning for congress, senate or governor that was unable or unwilling to fill a high school gymnasium during the height of a campaign, in my life. And I've been to political rallies, debates and inaugurals since the 1970s. The first was a debate between Carter and Ford held in a large college hall filled to capacity with many active and engaged people. And now that I think of it the affairs I've attended for Hillary were all unusually small, in 2002 and even an important 2007 event that was an announcement of her upcoming presidential campaign.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #118)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:51 PM

120. It's he fact that if the people who attend see her as a real person...

.. and get to have interactions with her, then both press covers those and that voter tells their friends "No, I really met her, and she's not like people suggest"...

She was never a born politician in the sense of having the charisma to simply from a distance of thousands of feet make people feel that, and she's dealing with the dehumanizing effects of a smear campaign against her for two decades.

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Response to moriah (Reply #117)


Response to appalachiablue (Reply #60)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:06 AM

62. Not unless they vote

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #62)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:11 AM

64. How many people have come to Clinton rallies and events?

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:28 AM

72. The voters are the ones being disrespected not Sanders.

Wow

It's a long tradition in the south to disrespect outsiders. Bernie is an outsider, fer sure, so there is that.


The way to disrespect people.



High school students are hit by a high-pressure water jet from a firehose during a peaceful walk in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963. As photographed by Charles Moore, images like this one, printed in Life, inspired international support for the demonstrators

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_campaign

?resize=500%2C334

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:37 AM

89. You've obviously never experienced Southern hospitality.

We may joke that the difference between a Yankee and a damn Yankee is the latter moves here.and stays, but you'll never leave a house without an offer of food or drink, people stop on the side of the road to check on stranded drivers, and please and thank you are part of the vocabulary.

And while there are racist rednecks, there are also thriving hippie towns.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:53 AM

102. "Southerners have been taken advantage of" ... Do tell!

 

But damn, the racism I see here is just ridiculous.


I suspect we have a different understanding of what constitutes, "racism."

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:05 PM

10. No, in no way will I accuse the Southern States and

their democratic voters of ignorance. The point though is
that neither O'Malley nor Bernie were as well known as
HRC, who has been in the public light for at least 25 years.

You must admit that that is somewhat different from
people, who are not well known outside of their state.

Obama had his big introduction at the convention way
before he decided to run, and that helped him a lot.

And I would say that a lot of people (excluding me) have
watched and known about that conman Trump. You don't
think that this fact has any importance with his "success"?

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:07 PM

11. excuse me?

Please don't use us as an excuse as to why your candidate didn't perform better in the primaries

Our candidate has performed very well in the primaries--way better than anyone expected. Furthermore, our candidate draws massive crowds, crowds that HRC could only dream about. No one shows up to her speeches with either numbers or enthusiasm--it's painfully obvious. She has to play small venues so there are no damaging photographs of empty seats.

Just had to set the record straight. Wouldn't want you to be under some kind of illusion.



Cher

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Response to NJCher (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:11 PM

17. Those "massive crowds" didn't do him much good at the voting booth, did they?

Playing small venues seemed to work out well for one of the candidates, huh.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:55 PM

34. Nope

What you are misconstruing as preference the public has for your candidate is actually just name-brand awareness. Hillary has been in public life for decades. Running Bernie against Hillary is like running XYZ Toothpaste against Crest.

Despite having that enormous advantage, preference for Hillary drops dramatically in every state when Bernie comes to town. You see this pattern over and over and over again. As soon as people become familiar with Bernie, they drop Hillary like yesterday's leftover soggy sandwich.

I'm a former brand manager, and I can tell you that if my product performed like Hillary when a new introduction (Bernie) came in, I would have been fired, and it wouldn't have taken long. That is a standard across the industry: brand managers do not last if their product loses market share.

There's another element in all this, and that is the voter chicanery that follows HRC wherever she goes, but I won't develop that point any more. I am sure you get the idea.


Cher

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:33 PM

49. Hugs.

So sorry for the beat down you are getting.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:42 PM

52. Thanks. Sticks and stones and all that.

Just a few more days and this ugliness goes away.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #52)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:46 PM

55. Hang in their.

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Response to NJCher (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:42 PM

25. Well

"Those "massive crowds" didn't do him much good at the voting booth, did they?

Playing small venues seemed to work out well for one of the candidates, huh."


"Just had to set the record straight. Wouldn't want you to be under some kind of illusion. "




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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:10 PM

16. A lot of the south votes for the Republican candidate in the GE anyway though, right?

 

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Response to Seeinghope (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:50 PM

31. yes and she knows it. And she does not speak for all of us Southerners.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:49 PM

109. Oh yes, I know that does not speak for all of you. I lived in Georgia for a few years so I totally

 

Get being part of the minority in beliefs and political affiliation.

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Response to Seeinghope (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:58 AM

104. How has Utah and Alaska voted in the GE ... You have no problem with those votes.

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #104)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:52 PM

110. I have no problem with the individual votes. It is how the state goes in the GE that I am wondering

 

about.

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Response to Seeinghope (Reply #110)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 03:24 PM

114. My point is how are you going to question the southern states that HRC won ...

 

"because they never go blue in the GE" while being fine with Bernie's wins in Utah and Alaska ... two states that haven't gone Blue in the last 40 years?

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:02 AM

106. A president has to represent everyone.

 

A primary candidate should campaign in areas which might vote for them in the general election.

Is Arkansas going to vote for the D nominee or Trump? The states that Sanders won are swing states which are important to the general election.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #106)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:38 AM

108. Are you saying that Democrats in southern states shouldn't have a voice in selecting the

Democratic nominee since those states will probably vote Republican? It certainly sounds like you're saying that our votes don't matter.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #108)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:00 PM

112. No that really isn't what I am saying although in the GE when the state aligns with the the other

 

party the Democrats aren't really helped by the minority vote.

The GE election is not decided by the popular vote but by electoral/state. That is why the "swing" states become so important.

My state is a solid blue state so the Republicans won't spend as much money campaigning in my state as compared to a swing states. The odds of turning my state red are very very slim. Nothing personal. I have Republican friends. They still vote in the GE even though the state will most likely be a blue state. That's just the war things are.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #106)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:02 PM

113. Now THAT is important. It shows a lot of power since "the establishment" doesn't own the political

 

system in the state.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #106)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 11:52 PM

121. Really? Hillary won Ohio, Pennsylvania, amd Florida. IMPORTANT swing states. NT

 

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:57 PM

4. It wasn't a level field

 

It was all tilted toward Mrs. Inevitable. For some reason.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:59 PM

6. White man Sanders has an unlevel playing field with the woman in the race, lol.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:26 AM

71. Your response is ludicrously uninformed.

Last edited Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:03 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to JudyM (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:57 AM

77. Yes it was, suggesting a white man faces the unlevel playing field running against a woman.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #77)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:03 AM

78. Edited for clarity since you misunderstood.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 01:07 AM

79. Cause white men have all those obstacles placed in front of them, while women have the course clear

 

Gotcha.

Thanks for the clarification. Lol

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:38 AM

100. It was "tilted" because voters already favored her from the start.

Being more popular is not cheating.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:58 PM

5. It's not the media and DNC insisting on Secretary Clinton .. it's the voters

 

Are you only for democracy when your candidate wins?

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 09:59 PM

7. Nah! Democrats are just not that into Sanders.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:08 PM

12. You may be right, but do you really think

that O'Malley got what he deserved compared
to a national and international figure?

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:10 PM

14. No offence but O'Malley is boring.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:03 PM

37. His policy positions are better than Hillary's. But 'boring' implies that it is about personality

At least to some...

BTW, my canvassing supports this: every Hillary supporter I encountered in CA said they were voting for Hillary because they wanted a woman president.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:05 PM

38. My canvassing showed that in NY people voted her because she was the most qualified.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:08 PM

40. My canvassing shows quite different results. YMMV.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #40)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:10 PM

41. She was senator here so people know her better.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:12 PM

42. That could quite easily explain it.

I was shocked at the reason for people's support honestly. I thought people were backing her as the more conservative candidate with more experience, too. Or they didn't like Bernie's style. But nope.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:17 PM

43. Experience.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #43)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:19 PM

44. Voting one's gender.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:25 PM

46. I'm a guy so that is a big no for me.

 

Experience.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #46)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:35 PM

50. Only females should vote their gender?

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #50)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:36 PM

51. My apologies for not being clear.

 

I am a guy so i am not voting based on my gender.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:22 PM

45. Well, he could not be more boring than HRC.

At least he offered new ideas, which she did not,
nor has she done so by now.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #45)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:26 PM

47. Well maybe in the future.

 

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:17 PM

18. Gah! Just about everyone's into Sanders



Sorry your candidate just doesn't have "it."


Cher

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Response to NJCher (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:18 PM

19. That is ok because she got more votes.

 

Oh and a stadium full of people does not mean everybody.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:10 PM

15. So you're basically raising your fist and shaking it at...time? Calendars?


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Response to Tarc (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:27 PM

21. Well, see,

"Hillary got more votes because more people think she would be a good President" just doesn't seem to be an acceptable explanation for some folks.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:35 AM

74. under the bus with you father time!

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:25 PM

20. I think about this, too, sadoldgirl...

The millions and millions of this election was brought to you BY the millions and millions who responded TO Bernie.

What to do? All those numbers... Talk about "the math"... You can do a LOT of manipulations, depending upon the state controls and DNC effect upon the debates, the media, the so-called, power brokers like Boxer and minions who spin.

The latest atrocity is the way Puerto Rico's electorate has been curtailed for the local and national elections tomorrow. The large numbers brought into this election by Sanders are fodder for those who are in good position to manipulate the elections themselves, ignore the issues, control the MSM and outright spin daily through those who's jobs depend upon it.

It makes you wonder. It makes me NEVER give in to the reactionary powers that be.

They work so hard to deceive because they are scared shitless.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:29 PM

22. She won five big northeastern states just over a month ago

 

She also scored big wins in Florida and Ohio about a month prior to that.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:33 PM

23. If only there was a way for people to "record" a debate, so they could watch whatever sporting event

they wanted to, then watch the debate later on at their leisure. Then nobody would be precluded from watching the debate because of some sporting event taking place at the same time. Why can't someone invent a device that would enable people to do this?

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:34 PM

24. Who has the biggest number of delegates...number of votes

 

Wins....accept it and move on to keep America safe from trump and elect democratic senators and congress people.

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:47 PM

27. I don't think that you understood what I tried to say.

In my very mixed neighborhood people told me
pretty early on:" The party is ramming HRC down
our throat, so what can we do?"
They are not happy about this, but I assume that
they will unhappily go along.


Again, my question to you is where did those
3 million over the top votes come from?

It seems that nobody wants to go into the
details about this. Why not????

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:45 AM

92. Nobody forced their vote

They were free to support another candidate. The DNC was not holding their hand in the voting booth.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:45 PM

26. .

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Response to RandySF (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:49 PM

30. Great response, will you feel the same if she

is going to be impeached?

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:48 PM

28. 13>10 mill

 

It's called democracy. Don't like it? Work to fix it.
I can't stand Hillary, but she is winning this race and she'll likely be the nominee.
She's winning by the rules set in place when each candidate announced their intentions. Hillary is doing what is needed to win.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:15 AM

85. We can not know if the votes were counted fairly in many places for this primary.

So, saying we have a democracy is probably a bit naive.

Exit polls have been outrageously off as well, but not for the Republicans.

Until we get a transparent and verifiable election system all results are suspect. Even if Bernie were winning I would still be loudly clamoring for changes to our election system. It is a disgrace, and it does not give our "democracy" legitimacy.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #85)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:17 AM

86. The system probably needs improvement, I agree

 

I feel there are some irregularities in every election in recent years, but I don't agree it's enough to flip an election.

Who knows. Maybe Obama really didn't win twice.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #86)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:32 AM

88. We can't know, although exit polls were not showing McCain winning.

I believe the pledged delegates were probably much closer than they "legitimately" show currently, but I can not KNOW.

Theses machines are easily hacked or preprogrammed. This is a fact. So, people that talk about our results in a manner that gives them legitimacy allow the system to remain. They are not part of the movement that will be needed to overhaul our system. I do realize this is a very large majority of people. Most fortunate for the status quo who have already taken great strides at delegitimizing exit polling.

When enough of us start saying the system is not legitimate and begin demanding reform we may get it. We will never get it if that never happens.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:49 PM

29. If Sanders wasn't known after spending a quarter of a century in Congress, what should that

 

tell you ?

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:51 PM

32. Just as much as how O'Malley as governor

has not been given credit for what he tried
to achieve!

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:55 PM

35. You earn name recognition. It's not given. Sanders was unknown because he had zero

 

accomplishments. That's all on him.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:06 AM

93. first lady is now an earned position?

I guess Chelsea will be president soon because she's earned her name recognition

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Response to jonmac511 (Reply #93)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:09 AM

94. Your post was silly and embarrassing. You can do better than this.

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:13 AM

95. feel free to explain

Instead of just insulting me. How did Hillary earn her name recognition? Marrying Bill? That's earning it? While I know she worked hard to get bill in the white house, so did lots of others whose names will never be know.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:54 PM

33. "Who arranged for this???" Clue: Her initials are DWS

 

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Response to jack_krass (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 10:57 PM

36. Yeah right' she engineered Hillary's name recognition and Sanders' obscurity. Did you think

 

before you posted ?

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #36)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:29 PM

48. Now, don't be a chicken about this:

where did most of those 3 million votes come from?

I am asking for a break down, and most here don't
answer this at all.

Please break down the counts of 3 million more votes
by state.
tia

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #48)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:54 PM

57. State by State Graph at Link

RealClearPolitics - 2016 Democratic Popular Vote http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html

And before you try to claim that the caucus votes would change the results......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/06/is-hillary-clinton-really-ahead-of-bernie-sanders-by-2-5-million-votes/

The Pinocchio Test

Despite the suspicions of the Sanders supporter, the fact that caucus results are not included in the popular vote tally does not appear to make much of a difference in the final result. Despite overwhelming victories in caucus states such as Washington and Maine, Sanders gains only about 130,000 votes. That means Clinton is ahead by 2.4 million votes, rather than 2.5 million votes. Given rounding — and the fact that caucus numbers are only estimates — the difference is slight enough that Clinton’s claim, made before the Wisconsin vote, earns a rare Geppetto Checkmark.

Geppetto Checkmark



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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:45 PM

54. Sanders Campaign's failure to tailor his message to appeal to Southern voters, most of them black,

is the single biggest reason he will not win the nomination. He tried, but it was already too late.

I think we have a good chance to see O'Malley in 2024. He would make a good President.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:48 PM

56. I swear some of you Bernie supporters are allergic to Google

Here are the vote totals by state on RCP:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html

You can go see for yourself the vote totals and where Clinton got her 3+ million votes.

You may be right, some people are voting for her because of name recognition, some may be voting for her because her husband did a damn good job with the budget--leaving us with a surplus--some people may be voting against Trump by voting for her and, believe it or not, some people just may like her.

She also does really well with people of color, something that could have put Sanders over the top if he didn't come across as quasi-bigoted (I'm not saying he is but he certainly comes across that way with his lack of outreach). The fastest growing segment of the voting bloc are Hispanics and Clinton seems to have a lock on the Hispanic vote--probably because they seem to trend more conservative.

There are tons of reasons that Clinton has more popular votes but since it isn't happening inside your personal bubble, you don't get it or want to get it.

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:17 AM

65. Watch it man...

You need a trigger warning before posting the truth!

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:26 AM

69. Try a Google Image Search for 'thumb on the scale'

 

This comes up #4:

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 11:55 PM

58. So it comes down to attacking

To the part of the country that gave us our first African-American president. Can it go any lower?

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:21 AM

67. They're not counting the number of voters in the caucuses she isn't millions of votes ahead

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:40 AM

75. Where did thay COME from?? THAT'S what Matters? No, honey, MATH is what matters

 

and not just 3 million, but 3 million MORE than your guy

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:51 AM

76. There was likely an early-voting campaign as well

 

that's the impression I got, that people had voted before
they'd heard of Bernie, and more than a few were kicking themselves..

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #76)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:54 AM

84. And who is to blame if a person votes before researching the candidates?

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #84)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 04:37 PM

116. that's what I said... kicking themselves

 

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 06:35 AM

80. It was never intended to be "fair"

There is only ever one winner. The process is intended to test how candidates use their advantages and minimize their disadvantages. This is not equal opportunity employment or ever intended to be. If a candidate can use their skills and assets to create a completely unfair advantage in their favor, then that is exactly what they are supposed to do. This is the nature of the system.

I do not happen to like the way this is coming out, but that does not mean there is something "wrong" about it. This is a game based on "survival of the fittest" rules. Unfortunately even with actual evolution "survival of the fittest" rules will occasionally produce dead end results.

I do not think "socialist" had much to do with it. Only Barack broke into the Clinton hold on the AA vote, and only Barack could have. The primary system is front loaded with a massive portion of the AA vote, and this is intentional. Bernie has done just fine when he has had time to explain what he is about to an audience where the decision has not already been made. The decision in the early southern primaries was largely made a long time ago and only interrupted by Barack temporarily.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:14 AM

81. That was a part of it, but did you see those posts about how they count the votes?

 

For instance, Bernie won 72% of the vote in Washington. There are 7.2 Million people in Washington. Do you know who many votes they added to Bernie's vote total? ZERO!

In all those caucus states that Bernie won by Yuuuuuge margins, he got ZERO votes for them. I think that pretty well explains away those nonsense "3 Million" more votes Hillary supposedly has.

Again, all you have to do is look at the size of their crowds. Hillary's are counted in dozens of people, maybe even hundreds, and Bernie's are in the THOUSANDS. One candidate has inspired the public and one has only inspired the 1%.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 08:46 AM

83. 25 years in the Senate and hardly anyone knew who he was.

 

That says a lot about why he lost. He didn't prepare.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #83)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 09:40 AM

90. 257 of the SDs worked with BS in Congress...and the majority of them are with Her.

So the people that have worked with him for 25 years, and know him best, don't like him much either.

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Response to Henhouse (Reply #90)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:24 AM

96. Wow.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:24 AM

97. Actually its 13 million voters and they mostly came from states that Obama won

26 states plus DC went for Obama in 2012, giving him the election. (Referred to herein as the Obama States).

23 of the Obama States have had primaries or caucuses thus far (CA, DC, NJ, and NM have not voted yet).

Clinton has won 12 of those contests, Sanders has won 11.

In terms of popular vote, almost 8.5 million of Clinton's popular vote has come from Obama States.
Sanders has picked up a slight more than 7 million votes in the Obama States.
So one-half of Clinton's 3 million vote edge comes in Obama States.

The Obama States won by Clinton represent 172 electoral college votes.
The Obama States won by Sanders represent 83 electoral college votes.
(The four Obama States that have voted yet represent 77 electoral college votes, meaning that if Sanders swept them he still would have won Obama States with fewer electoral votes than Clinton).

The Obama States won by Clinton represent 797 pledged delegates.
The Obama States won by Sanders represent 390 pledged delegates.

Sorry if this doesn't fit your meme.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:29 AM

98. Sanders got obliterated in Maryland because demographically

 

the Democratic primary electorate there is similar to other southern states (Maryland is a border state).

He got thumped in Pennsylvania and New York.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:37 AM

99. No it DOESN'T matter where they came from, and it's offensive to suggest such a thing.

In a democracy, all votes matter. Not just ones from favored populations.

It's also offensive to say that the campaign was "unfair" because Hillary was more famous than the other candidates, and that she should've just not run in order to give them a "fair" chance.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:40 AM

101. I was well informed about Bernie when I voted for Hillary in the NC primary.

This may come as a surprise to you, but even Democrats living in the south can read and write and a lot of us have internet.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 10:54 AM

103. There's regret in the early voting states

Quite a bit among my friends at least. I've had several friends tell me they wish they had voted for Bernie instead of Hillary but they just hadn't heard of him at the time of their primary. Most of them only bothered to go vote because of local races and they just picked HRC assuming she was inevitable. The media made sure that was the narrative and they primarily get their news from TV.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 12:56 PM

111. There was a caucus in the Virgin Islands yesterday and there will be a primary in Puerto Rico today.

Bernard Sanders was not viable in the former and might not be viable in the latter...


So much for the time argument. Best to look elsewhere for your explanation.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)

Sun Jun 5, 2016, 03:52 PM

115. 3 milllion could not vote in the NY primary alone

so those numbers don't mean

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