Even freaking Rasmussen has Trump down 4 now

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Even freaking Rasmussen has Trump down 4 now

https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/740921750716874752

[LexVegas]

1. Bad news for the Bernie or Bust crowd. nt

[azurnoir]

2. How's that?

[TeacherB87]

4. Because

polling, as of late, is rendering the Bernie or Bust people irrelevant. Granted there hasn't been a deluge of polls yet, but I think this will continue to bear itself out. Bernie or Bust will be a bust...just wait. People that get indignant during an election year and do nothing else to advance a progressive agenda during the rest of the time get no sympathy from actual progressives including myself.

[azurnoir]

7. so you're saying Bernies supporters will come to heel for Hillary,

no matter how badly they're treated? and your saying actual progressives vote for someone willing to compromise abortion as long as the mothers life is taken into account? Do we file that under pragmatism?

[TeacherB87]

9. Come to heel?

Voting for the best among two, admittedly not ideal, choices is not "coming to heel." Nor are Hillary supporters, including the new ones coming from Bernie, dogs or horses or whatever insulting animal reference you were going for there.

Bernie supporters are not being treated badly. They've dug themselves a hole by embracing many right wing faux jabs at Clinton to try and score political points and they've gotten the response they deserve.

Clinton was talking about late-term abortions, I don't understand why people continue to bash her with this. This sort of accusation is yet another example of the hole they have dug themselves into. It's a bullshit criticism.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Hillary Clinton: Iraq War support, stance on the death penalty, possibly too cozy to Wall Street (though that hasn't really born fruit in the policy arena per se)....among others.

Progressives don't want to hear tired right-wing lies coming from other self-described progressives.

[azurnoir]

11. they are Hillary's own words and compromise on abortion is just that no matter how it is parsed

as to the rest you Bernie's aren't being treated badly but they are because they deserve to be

Bernie supporters are not being treated badly. They've dug themselves a hole by embracing many right wing faux jabs at Clinton to try and score political points and they've gotten the response they deserve.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2164790

[TeacherB87]

13. I'm pro-choice and I believe in restrictions on late-term in line with Roe v. Wade.

I agree with her position. So we can debate that if you like, but there's nothing wrong with her position on that as far as I'm concerned. Now if she said those same restrictions should be on first-trimester abortions, I would very much not be OK with that. My issue here is that you are deliberately misleading people when you refer to this quote and suggest that somehow she is compromising progressive values by having this opinion. That is patently false.

Being treated badly, "badly" implies that they don't deserve the treatment they are getting. I'm not going to sit here and defend every petty thing every person says about Bernie. But much of the criticism centers around these right-wing talking points being recycled by people who call themselves progressive. They deserve to be criticized for that. It's not an example of them being treated "badly."

[realmirage]

15. Very well put

[TeacherB87]

16. Thanks!

:-D

[azurnoir]

17. so your pro-choice as long as we're talking strictly first trimester? BTW Roe vs Wade

left the cut off up too states rights no hard legal cut was included

While acknowledging that the right to abortion was not unlimited, Justice Blackmun, speaking for the Court, created a trimester framework to balance the fundamental right to abortion with the government's two legitimate interests: protecting the mother's health and protecting the "potentiality of human life." The trimester framework addressed when a woman's fundamental right to abortion would be absolute, and when the state's interests would become compelling. In the first trimester, when it was believed that the procedure was safer than childbirth, the Court left the decision to abort completely to the woman and her physician.[36] From approximately the end of the first trimester until fetal viability, the state's interest in protecting the health of the mother would become "compelling." At that time, the state could regulate the abortion procedure if the regulation "reasonably relate[d] to the "preservation and protection of maternal health."[38] At the point of viability, which the Court believed to be in the third trimester, the state's interest in "potential life" would become compelling, and the state could regulate abortion to protect "potential life." At that point, the state could even forbid abortion so long as it made an exception to preserve the life or health of the mother. The Court added that the primary right being preserved in the Roe decision was that of the physician to practice medicine freely absent a compelling state interest – not women's rights in general.[40] In 1992, however, the plurality of Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, David Souter, and Anthony Kennedy made a subtle move away from the physician's-rights approach of Roe and toward a patient's-rights approach in Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey. The plurality in Casey, explicitly confirming that women had a constitutional right to abortion and further upholding the "essential holding" of Roe, stated that women had a right to choose abortion before viability and that this right could not be unduly interfered with by the state. They asserted that this right was rooted in the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

and as to how Bernies supporters are being treated you essentially repeated yourself, so I'll put it to you another way does Clinton actually need the votes of Bernies supporters yes or no?

[TeacherB87]

20. In line with

the opinion expressed by Justice Blackmun. I should have been clearer. Point accepted. But that has nothing to do with your misrepresentation of Hillary Clinton's words which you have yet to address.

My statement was pretty clear and you're still reacting as if it doesn't make sense to you, that's why I repeated what I said with somewhat different wording. The word "badly" is the key here.

No, Clinton does not need all Bernie supporters to vote for her. The vast majority are already going to regardless.
The few that don't deserve to be criticized for their poor decision-making because if you put your indefensible opinion into the public sphere then you should expect it to be criticized. If criticism is unacceptable to this subset of Bernie supporters then maybe they should avoid posting their opinions in this public forum. Or, alternatively, they could go to a different one or create their own in which they can live in an echo-chamber and share all of the silly conspiracy theories they want.

I don't think Bernie would want his supporters to think of themselves as such maligned victims anyway. Being Bernie or Bust does not situate a person on a moral pedestal so I really wish they would stop acting so damn "above it."....Like some Bernie supporters haven't been spreading vicious lies about Clinton and the process for several months. But no, go ahead...the self-annointed morally privileged people in the Bernie or Bust club clearly have the right to tell us how to feel about what they say in public as well.

[azurnoir]

23. Oh it makes sense in that you are okay with abortion timetables to left to states rights?

an no I'm not telling you how to feel you're 'feelings' are fine with me - they speak quite loudly infact - apparently women can not be trusted to make their own decisions at least beyond the first trimester because gosh if allowed women might just line up in their 3rd trimester for abortions or something or at least that seems the case

as to Sanders supporters you seem to feel they deserve the treatment they're getting-that is also fine with me

[TeacherB87]

24. What?

You're just being offensive and argumentative for no reason.

Obviously women should be able to make their own reproductive choices. I don't think there are virtually any women that would abort a healthy fetus in the third trimester. But if a woman wants to abort a healthy third trimester fetus that should not be legal...it doesn't matter how often it happens. All rights have limits, and this is no exception.

It does not mean that I think women cannot make their own decisions. Quite the contrary, I think women make better choices than most men.

Nice try though, try again?

[azurnoir]

25. your comment title line

TeacherB87 (143 posts)
13. I'm pro-choice and I believe in restrictions on late-term in line with Roe v. Wade.

I agree with her position. So we can debate that if you like, but there's nothing wrong with her position on that as far as I'm concerned. Now if she said those same restrictions should be on first-trimester abortions, I would very much not be OK with that. My issue here is that you are deliberately misleading people when you refer to this quote and suggest that somehow she is compromising progressive values by having this opinion. That is patently false.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2164884

Roe vs Wade as I have shown you left the abortion timetable up to states rights

[MariaThinks]

28. She needs the support of the Bernie supporters that are truly progressive and left

I don't think she needs the support of the naderite Bernie supporters or those who just hate her.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Hi, Teacher.

Please tell your interlocutor that no civilized nation allows a woman an unfettered right to abortion up to the moment of birth. Roe V Wade established a schedule which balances the right of the woman versus the viability of the fetus; the more viable the fetus the greater the state's interest in regulating abortion.

[TeacherB87]

21. Unfortunately

the conversation is so far beneath that at this point we may never get to it. This person is making no sense.

Point well taken though!

[azurnoir]

22. Thank you I love interpersonal tete's between comrades

[Demsrule86]

32. Yeah well since you all seem to want Trump because of bitternes and anger

Trump wants to overturn Roe V Wade and criminalize abortion and with five court picks, he does it. ...puts women in jail. Already with the rightie court, we have women in jail for abortion...funny never heard Bernie mention that even once.

[azurnoir]

34. oh stop already seem all you've got -you won -be happy

[bettyellen]

30. As far as reproductive rights go, Sanders support of abortion with no restrictions till birth is

Unsupported by both voters and fellow legislators. It's unrealistic and he's only said it because it sounds good on paper. I don't appreciate how people pretend he is better on women's reproductive health when it's always been an afterthought for him.

[Demsrule86]

33. He said abortion was a distraction.

[azurnoir]

35. who said that?

[Gore1FL]

27. So Bernie supporters shouldn't vote for Hillary in the Fall?

Is that really the strategy you want to espouse?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. ...

[NCTraveler]

5. Fuck Trump. He is going down. nt.

[azurnoir]

8. got data to back that up? other than a single push poll?

[azurnoir]

12. out of 678 Democrats polled hardly impressive also taken taken well before the 6/4 surprise

[randome]

14. And yet it's in line with what most have said all along.

That pre-Primary polls are essentially meaningless. Not sure why listening to the experts on this is so hard for some.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[azurnoir]

19. well by all means listen to them if you wish

[MariaThinks]

29. you sound so disappointed that Trump may lose.

[leftofcool]

26. That means Trump is really down by 15

[Adrahil]

31. And no polls really showing the effects of his openly racist remarks yet.

Also, as the party unites behind Clinton, expect her number to bump up for 5% or so in the next week and a half. She'll be up by 9-10 point in 2 weeks. THEN watch the GOP panic....