2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy HRC is bad for black people, the shorter version
Theres just no nice way to say it and it since it must be said..
She protects the beneficiaries of division, racial division included. She supports the very reasons race was invented in the first place, shes got their backs, not ours. While she may create policies that target structural racism, Missy H does this while America morphs into a country of worsening class division. Poor black people are not going to benefit because opportunities are not enough to level the playing field for them. On the contrary, her friends up top need their chattel in jails. Latte liberals are the new "moderate" republican.
To go one further, who better than Trump to scare people into voting against their own interests? The Clintons didnt just do their part in co-opting the Democratic Party with neoliberalism, they use GOP tactics to keep the co-option going.
Not a damn thing would change under another Clinton presidency, just more of the same with new labels, new faces and more races.
The second she doesnt need us anymore, shell disappear. Count on it. You know how that go.
I am prepared for her to prove me wrong.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)And you'll see that in DC as well.
senz
(11,945 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)Such arrogance and so condescending...no wonder POC do not like Bernie for the most part.
840high
(17,196 posts)Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)Pointing out what poster is doing in a shorter version an article that has been hidden before. This is an attack post.
rock
(13,218 posts)Demsrule86 is saying that PoC should decide who's best for Poc.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)The primaries are over. It's Clinton v Trump. Is she trying to convince a large segment of the Democratic base to not vote for our nominee?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)so the poster was not "whitesplaining" to people of color.
It never stops
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...Hillary's bad for black people? What led you to this conclusion?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)How many total groups of people do you find mentioned?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That puts the OP in a somewhat different light.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I'm sure the OP knows better than Obama.
senz
(11,945 posts)apcalc
(4,465 posts)Wothout evidence.
Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)you are saying that all the other Black people are too stupid to vote for their own best interests. You should delete this.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)all attacks against Clinton and her history and current policies on race and economics as untouchable, because somehow attacking them means that you are calling people of color stupid or ignorant. The truth is people do vote against their self-interest all the time, which is why we got Reagan, And W.
And in this primary, there was a concerted effort to ensure that that happened this time, by successfully painting Sanders as a candidate for white males. Propaganda does work, especially against an unknown quantity. People knew Clinton. They knew what they were getting. When the first thing you hear about a candidate is that he is an old white guy who is popular with white men, and you're hearing that from other democrats and national black leaders are saying things like "I never met the man" its not an unreasonable thing to assume the worst and not give the candidate a second look. We all have a certain amount of bandwidth, so we use a lot of shorthand to make our decisions. That's hardly an indictment of black people. Its an indictment of the party that sold the lie.
840high
(17,196 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)that it is no surprise that they have stooped to this low point.
Califonz
(465 posts)Suppressing free speech, just another day at DU.
annavictorious
(934 posts)Sanders supporters damaged his run and ruined his chances to expand his base.
...ever.
jzodda
(2,124 posts)So please give her the opportunity to do just that! You will never know if that Trump wins.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I can't wait till shit like this will get people banned.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)the spectrum of race. Its just that most of us who do aren't in the top 1%. Its ridiculous to try to teflon somebody and her policies by saying attacking them is attacking the intelligence of those who have voted for her.
840high
(17,196 posts)MFM008
(19,814 posts)For this.
That is all.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)Renaissance Man
(669 posts)As a person of color (black male) who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and this was before she ran for the nomination in 2008, considering she supported welfare reform and the 1994 Crime Bill, while she dog whistled during the 2008 primary, and while she used race to divide (with John Lewis and Delores Huerta) during this primary.
I don't forget easily. Because of that, I didn't vote for her in 2008, didn't vote for her in this primary, and I will not be voting for her in the general election. I'm sure there are some third party candidates that align with my values. Jill Stein comes to mind.
... AND I DON'T CARE WHO LIKES IT OR WHO WANTS TO ENGAGE IN "BUT TRUMP" SCARE TACTICS.
I also don't care that President Obama just endorsed her. I will not partake in pretending that Hillary cares about our community. She doesn't. AT ALL.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)That crime bill?
I'm guessing you don't see the irony here.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)Oh, you're referring to the 1994 Crime Bill that had the Violence Against Women provision attached to it. The provision which, if he would have voted against, would have made you call him a raging sexist, misogynist, a "bro," or whatever other nonsensical crap you can muster.
You mean this video:
Yes, that bill.
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)Gotcha. And you don't see the problem with that?
I wouldn't have called Sanders anything for voting for the Crime Bill. Nearly everyone supported it. Unlike you, however, I'm not selective in my outrage and I understand context. I also understand that hindsight is 20/20.
The fact that you use it as a tool against Clinton but as a plus for Sanders is some impressive cognitive dissonance.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)Actually, there's nothing about my post that is remotely dissonant. I understand how the legislative process works and how amendments can be placed on bills that place elected officials in the position where they are hamstrung to vote for one provision (in this instance, for the Violence Against Women provision of the 1994 Crime Bill), while being vehemently against other provisions.
I think the video speaks volumes of where Bernie's character has always been, as it relates to his position on that bill.
Now, about those alleged "super predators" in the community ...
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)cognitive dissonance.
"vehemently against other provisions"
Then he shouldn't have voted for it. Giving him a pass for *knowingly* voting for a bill he knew was problematic while criticizing Hillary Clinton 20 years of hindsight later is the very definition of cognitive dissonance.
Don't like cognitive dissonance? Well, hypocrisy is just as accurate. Better?
Response to TwilightZone (Reply #38)
Post removed
Number23
(24,544 posts)times worse than the person who actually voted for it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Your creative rationalizations are bemusing. It certainly allows you the convenience of holding individuals to two different standards.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)*intended as constructive criticism
840high
(17,196 posts)can I ever believe her?
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)*Intended as constructive criticism
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)I had forgotten how shamefully the HC campaign used John Lewis. Dolores Huerta sold out long ago.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)LMAO.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)SMH
840high
(17,196 posts)atomingai
(71 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)Ok.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Ban worthy in 6 days.
yardwork
(61,634 posts)I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how Trump will improve things.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)more people telling black people they made the wrong choice and that they made the wrong choice.
This kind of condescension is precisely why, in part, PoC did not vote for Bernie in the first place.
If you care about justice then have a plan for how you are going to work to push her administration in a progressive direction.
Because standing on a pedestal of privilege and pontificating to PoC comes off as reactionary, not progressive.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)TeacherB87
(249 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)One learns quickly to identify lost causes. Carry on.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)That makes a lot of sense. As for your condescending comment about me being a "lost cause," I hope that makes you feel better about yourself. You don't know me. You could have taken the small effort of letting me know what you are talking about, but I read the OP's entire profile AND .sig and don't know what point your trying to make.
Next time, maybe you should just not reply in a situation like this. Do you enjoy this sort of exchange? I won't assume you enjoy being condescending to people because I don't know you. See how that works?
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)That's because the clue in that .sig as to just why your upbraiding the poster for "condescending" to people of color was ironic and off-target was about as obvious as a hippo in a tutu.
In fact, I'm still not convinced otherwise, so...bye, Felicia. Reply if you like; I won't see it.
athena
(4,187 posts)discriminate against that minority, by definition?
If you really think that, you haven't read or thought much about sexism, racism, or any other kind of discrimination.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I should think that's obvious.
athena
(4,187 posts)As far as I can tell, you've been suggesting, without coming out and saying it, that the OP cannot possibly be condescending toward people of color because s/he is a person of color.
Spazito
(50,358 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Race was "invented"?
What the hell does this even mean??
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)It means this: http://www.bolshevik.org/1917/no12/no12capitalismandracism.html
And I do believe there is a strong relationship between racism and capitalism. What I don't understand is why this is the reason to vote against Hillary when literally every other president in US history has also been a capitalist. Even FDR. Why is it suddenly impossible to vote for a capitalist?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)It flopped then, it flops now.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)So now a vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote against my own interests?? I'm not trusted to know what's good for myself? You have a wonderful method of winning people over to your side...
So... Since you believe Clinton is so bad for everyone, I take it you're voting for Stein or Johnson or Trump?
Gothmog
(145,293 posts)There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics
On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only hed fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.
They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.
On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.
It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.
Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.
I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.
yardwork
(61,634 posts)Here in the south, the struggle for civil rights required survival in a hard, mean, life-threatening environment, and that struggle continues to this day. Black people survived and gained rights by forging very close bonds with one another and trusted allies. Once earned, a place at the table is a sacred trust. Perfection is not expected or demanded. Loyalty is.
Some of Bernie's white supporters never knew this, and others who should know it seem to have forgotten.
You can't waltz into the south and demand black people's vote and expect to get it. You have to be invited to the table, and that only happens after years of loyal, hard work.
The Clintons are imperfect. People get that. It's an imperfect world. But in the south, the new guy in town is going to be greeted with a a fair amount of polite skepticism. Especially if he seems to be just passing through.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)And then your post would have come full circle.
Now where is that damned fly swatter.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)JSup
(740 posts), while I disagree with the rest, shows that at least if you end up wrong you won't pretend not to be.
yardwork
(61,634 posts)I don't recognize many of the 15 posters who recced this OP, and I don't recognize any of them as people who identify as Black or People of Color on DU. Just curious.
oasis
(49,389 posts)history available to them. They strongly disagree with you.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I guess tee em number number was busy, so it was your turn.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Damn, b. That was fucking brutal.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... different result?
tia
Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)Beacool
(30,249 posts)Missy H???? Really???
Why are you preemptively blaming Hillary for "worsening" class divisions? Did class divisions disappear under president Obama? Would they disappear if Sanders were to be president? I think that Sanders is well versed on economic inequality, but he's tone deaf to the inherit effect of racism and discrimination that AA and other people of color face in their daily lives. That's why he got so little support from them.
I don't see Hillary as one of those politicians who only shows up when they are up for reelection. I have been around Hillary, her staffers are a diverse group of people, unlike Sanders'. Notice who are some of her closest advisers, Cheryl Mills is near the top of her list. Also Maggie Williams.
rock
(13,218 posts)jamese777
(546 posts)where the black population is at an equal or greater percentage than the black population nationally (13%).
Bernie Sanders won in Michigan (14% black) and he won by 1.5%. Hillary Clinton won in every other state that is at least 13% African American.
Obviously African American Democratic voters did not buy the OP's meme. I just don't see many African Americans accepting the proposition that a Donald Trump presidency will be better than a Hillary Clinton presidency
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)that's the best thing you could have said
Hekate
(90,714 posts)...speak for themselves. As voters, they are by definition adults, and know their own lives better than anyone else.
Or do you perhaps subscribe to the notion that African Americans are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome? I ask because that theory has come up here before.
Mmm-mm.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Florencenj2point0
(435 posts)still racist.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)this one was left up in a 1-6 vote. Next week can't get here soon enough.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And there are at least five of us here.
Squinch
(50,954 posts)you were going for? NAILED it!
Number23
(24,544 posts)I've long thought you were an incredibly intelligent and gentle soul. This OP is completely beneath you.
She supports the very reasons race was invented in the first place, shes got their backs, not ours.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.
While she may create policies that target structural racism, Missy H does this while America morphs into a country of worsening class division.
Like I said, completely beneath you.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)jamese777
(546 posts)I'm voting for Trump. I'm sure he'll be good for HIS African Americans.
Donald loves me, this I know
Omarosa told me so
All the world to him belongs
They are weak, but he is strong
Yes Donald loves me
Yes Donald loves me
Yes Donald loves me
Omarosa told me so.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Because they already voted and made it ABUNDANTLY clear which candidate they prefer. Being rude and condescending about it is not going to change that. In fact, it does the opposite by pissing people off and pushing them farther away from your candidate and views. It is massive, huge, ginormous amounts of fail, proved over and over during this primary, yet you want to do it some more.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Soooo tired last night while posting..... But still mystified as to why anyone would want to re-fight this particular issue.