2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat is so difficult about letting Bernie exit on his own terms?
It's not like he's bashing Hillary. It's not like he hasn't made it clear that he'll be working with her campaign to defeat Trump. The gleeful bashing of Bernie by many, many HRC supporters is childish and counterproductive.
I don't expect it to stop. In fact, my guess is that the petty malice will only increase.
A little self-discipline would cost little. Your candidate won. The losing candidate is doing her no harm. Maybe you all really do feel you don't need the votes of Bernie's supporters.
The lack of graciousness on the part of winning Hillary supporters is only matched by the lack of graciousness exhibited by Hillary supporters when she lost in 2008.
Can't you celebrate without attacking Bernie and his supporters?
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)Check GD-P the last week. Almost 2 to 1 opposite of what you say. Many of us have been congratulatory.
Also, congrats. Only one hide in all of June. Progress.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)There is time...there is time.
cali
(114,904 posts)about her a couple of weeks ago. One more time, bitterness on the part of the losing side may not be admirable, but it's certainly more understandable than the bitterness and malice of those on the winning side.
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I have seen cali call out fellow Bernie supporters who were out of line on many occasions. He/she has also defended Hillary and gone out of his/her way to say nice things about her.
And then the constant victim stance that it's all of us somehow piling onto them.
People need to check the front page and see the crap that's been said about a guy trying to improve our lives and our Party.
They won. They've spiked the football in the end zone long enough.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)on juries allowing even the most vile and disgusting posts which were nothing but personal attacks on Clinton supporters to stand (this one for example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=30492 ), Clinton supporters have been released from being gagged. It is not really surprising that they are letting off some steam.
This is mild compared to what went on here for months. And it will pass a lot more quickly than the months when BS supporters were spiking the football at the 50 yard line.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)do not act like it was a one way street.
Both sides were awful at different points in this campaign. Right now is not one of those times.
And released from being gagged? Anti-semitic remarks usually require a gag on a website. So mind your own yard before worrying about the neighbors.
I would love to see some stats on hidden posts (if it were possible) to refute your 8 to 1 ratio. Because Sanders supporters posts, which gotten hidden in LARGE numbers, would not have been in the scenario you painted.
Enjoy your night
I apologize to Cali for getting away from her OP
Squinch
(50,949 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Has he said some things I don't like much? Yeah. So do a lot of Democrats including Clinton. I consider the aggravation to be a part of being a Democrat. I see his run as overall positive to this point.
cali
(114,904 posts)Hillary supporters and clash as we have, I appreciate it.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)These "New Dems" can't keep winning if actual liberal ideals are being discussed and given credibility.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Your ideas lost and badly. We are all progressive. Bernie pretending like he invented something new is so much BS.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)elias7
(3,998 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/
Some people just can't follow instructions
choie
(4,111 posts)are you kidding? you wouldn't know it by some of the posts around here...
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)pissed.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Do you think that's a good reason to keep bashing him and his supporters? As I said, what's the problem with letting him exit on his own terms in his own time?
I'll add a caveat to that: If he takes it to the convention, then the bashing will be justifiable. As of now, it is not.
senz
(11,945 posts)The nomination will be decided at the convention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016#Process
Here are the pledged delegate counts:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/
UPDATED 7:09 AM EDT | Jun 15, 2016:
Clinton 2,218 pledged delegates won
Sanders 1,833 pledged delegates won
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)According to your side's math:
Being against Hillary = Supporting Trump
Why then is
Against Trump NOT supporting Hillary?
Exactly.. Gotta teach us how it's possible to enunciate out of both sides of the mouth.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)But any criticism of Hillary is met with "HAVE FUN WITH TRUMP"
Bernie is saying he will do anything in his power to stop Trump, but that isn't good enough in this binary (used many times here) situation?
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Let's see:
1) Criticize Trump
That's it.
renate
(13,776 posts)... I have to assume that his goal is just as it's been all his adult life--to give a voice to those who normally are not listened to, and to promote social justice and equality. Whether his influence has peaked already or won't peak till the convention remains to be seen. I suspect the former but maybe he'll be given a prime-time slot or something by staying in.
I've never thought that his continuing to stay in the race was about him. Well, maybe a little. It must be incredibly difficult to have come from SO far behind and to come so much closer than anyone would have dreamed possible.
But given that his entire life has been about progressive values, I think his main impetus is that he finally has a huge bully pulpit to use on behalf of those who desperately need it, after working all his life to get the powers that be to pay attention to the issues he cares about, and he wants to make the most of it.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)want anything to do with. He is hurting our GE effort and must concede...and soon...or we should just cut our losses.
renate
(13,776 posts)He is playing by the rules. He's allowed to stay in until the convention. I'm not going to argue that it's the best choice, but he's playing by the rules.
And he's tacitly admitted he's lost. He's not campaigning any more or talking about trying to swing delegates. He just wants a role in the convention, which I think is fair enough considering how competitive the primaries were. A lot of people still really like what he has to say and really want the progressive point of view to be represented.
I don't want to get into an argument--I am sick to death of arguments on DU and at this point they're utterly counterproductive--but I think there could be valid reasons that Bernie has not officially ended his campaign.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Seeinghope
(786 posts)bask in victory and be thankful and gracious instead of focusing on that really shouldn't matter to them any longer. Hillary Clinton appears to be doing wonderfully without Bernie Sanders and his endorsement and/or his supporters so why worry about it or even mention it. Rejoice and focus is on Hillary Clinton moving onto the White House. Be positive and move forward. Get out of the mud pit and just claim your victory!
merkins
(399 posts)to see the same concerted effort so many Hillary supporters on here take in bashing Bernie as they will to Trump in the GE. Sometimes reading these forums leaves me wondering...
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)JI7
(89,248 posts)It's clear the campaign has moved on to the GE and nothing Sanders is doing is getting in the way of that.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)How dare he refuse to concede when he as lost by all measures.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)And the mean-spirited smearing of Hillary by many, many SBS supporters is, what? Helpful?
Apparently, ANY celebration and even the expression of joy is considered to be in poor taste and taunting. There's just no pleasing you guys. Always griping about something.
... she said without realizing the irony of her words, and feeling a bit confused as everyone else began to chuckle audibly.
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)that.^
Squinch
(50,949 posts)shit on by zealots for BS.
Response to cali (Original post)
Post removed
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)He said she wasn't qualified to be President.
Bernie is making himself irrelevant.
cali
(114,904 posts)couple of weeks.
And no one with millions of followers and the mother of all email lists, can be classified as irrelevant.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/06/clinton-questions-whether-sanders-is-qualified-to-be-president/
Bernie: (I made the ifs bold because everyone seems to have ignored them)
I dont think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your super PAC.
I dont think you are qualified if you voted for the disastrous war in Iraq.
I dont think youre qualified if you supported almost every disastrous trade agreement.
I dont think you are qualified if you supported the Panama free trade agreement, something I very strongly opposed, which has gave the green light to wealthy people and corporations all over the world to avoid paying taxes owed to their countries.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/477294/
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Personally, I don't think he will concede and endorse. If he has not done so by Monday, then we need to cut our losses...no convention goodies...and he is out of the convention after the first vote...he can not run a shadow campaign with the Democratic nominee...sorry he has to go and soon.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I know we still have some trolls here, working both sides, and all they want to do is keep on stirring shit as long as they can, but both sides need to come to grips with reality and stop the bashing. Hillary won, no need to continue bashing Bernie. Bernie lost, no need to keep posting trash about Hillary. We need to grow up, and ignore the trolls, so we can unite and take on Trump, making damn sure he never become president.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)a Democrat. It's time he endorse her. She won. He did not. Why is it so hard for him to endorse her?
Squinch
(50,949 posts)is entirely in his hands how he is treated. He is squandering his influence and there is very, very little left to salvage.
elleng
(130,895 posts)That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:09 PM - Edit history (1)
Inside the Beltway, (according to Taibbi) the Democratic Party insiders view Sanders as: "an oddball amateur and radical who jumped the line" and "a kind of self-centered huckster who made a failed play for power". Something to think about when you see the "drop out Bernie" posts. It also explains the bizarre "Bernie has a Big Ego" posts, that make no sense to anyone familiar with Senator Sanders.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609?page=3
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Anti left is not only our foreign policy but our domestic as well. What's surprising is the number of people on a site like this that don't seem to care about the rightward turn of "the party".
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)From all indications, he will drop out at some point between now and the convention, which is fine by me. Then it seems like he will work to unite the party and prevent Donald Trump from winning the white house, which is also fine by me.
k8conant
(3,030 posts)after I get to vote for him in Philly.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)I think it's pure fear that he might somehow pull off a win if he stays in.
Otherwise why give a shit.
LisaM
(27,808 posts)which, as I understand it, is something he wants - primaries totally open to Independents and Republicans. I do have a problem with that. It's not about trying to disenfranchise people. Anybody can be a Democrat. It's about people with different agendas meddling in the process of a party picking its candidate (I am not accusing people of necessarily doing that this time around). If there was no GOP primary or if it had been wrapped up earlier, the chance for mischief was enormous and it could have hurt Sanders as much as Clinton. I just think that needs to be off the table.
cali
(114,904 posts)voters by party.
LisaM
(27,808 posts)And I think those rules should be tightened up. I also understand it is state by state. But I also read that he would like all open primaries and to the extent he wants the DNC to condone it, I say no thanks.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Your problem is with the individual state Democratic Partys that have decided that this is what they want.
Take your problems to them....not Bernie.
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)imho people just aren't actually listening to Bernie and what he is saying.
Instead they put words in his mouth and have these ugly knee-jerk reactions.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,001 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)best not being helpful to that cause, and at worst actually helping Trump.
This is serious. What's wrong with criticizing actions that my mind are currently placing his own sense of importance above the importance of defeating Trump?
elias7
(3,998 posts)I'm pro Bernie and pro Hillary. The best thing about sanders always has been his selflessness. This meme is pure Rovian, and it is transparent and disingenuous to use it.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)He's not going to be the nominee. He's not going to be able to effect any actual changes in anything by doing this. He lost the primary. By a lot.
Right now, it's going to be either Hillary or Trump as president. And he's not helping, arguably he's hurting. Explain how something other than ego is driving this. There's nothing he can possibly accomplish that will actually achieve policy changes. Nothing that will help the 99%, or anyone else. He might satisfy some of his angry supporters by saying angry things. He can also piss of Democrats, which also will make some of his angry supporters happy, but accomplishes nothing. He's not going to get single payer, or anything else he campaigned on, by refusing to endorse Hillary.
In the real world, all he can do is make Trump more likely to become president. Explain why he's risking that.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)altogether. Sanders and his supporters have exposed Mrs Clinton as a de facto republican with a lot of lying, flip flopping, and corruption in her past, and the cult finds that intolerable. They don't want healthcare, public education, an end to fracking, an end to dark money in elections, or big military cutbacks. They don't want liberals in the party, and they don't even want Sanders vote in the Senate. They are consumed by their hatred. That is the simple answer.
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)"de facto Republican"
"the cult" - aw, aren't you just the cutest thing?
Clinton supporters don't want healthcare or public education? Sure, they don't.
"Don't even want Sanders vote in the Senate" - Good luck with that. This is one of the goofier assertions I've seen on DU.
"Don't want liberals in the party." - Considering that Hillary beat Sanders among liberals, I guarantee this isn't true.
You might want to think about looking in the mirror. It would seem that your assertion that others are consumed by hatred might be a wee bit of projection.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Remember ... Trump is the one to fight not our fellow democrats.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)To any dispassionate observer, it was fairly obvious back in March and certainly by April that Senator Sanders would not win the Democratic nomination for president. However, he has the right to his convictions and principles and it's up to him to decide when to give up.
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton will continue her march to the White House with or without Senator Sanders.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)he rather pointedly has said there will be no endorsement before the convention. and as of yet hasn't even conceded that she won.
right now, there's a non-aggression pact, not an alliance
instead, his priorities are:
1) collecting scalps of people on his enemies list, like Barney Frank and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz;
2) trying to push a series of 'reforms' whose transparent purpose is to delegitimize Clinton's win, as the only thing they have in common is they address things that would have helped Bernie get more votes, upshot being "the voting process was unfair and that's why I lost"
3) acting as if he won and thus gets to write the platform
4) making demands of Clinton before he fulfills his promise to do whatever it takes to defeat Trump.
If he wants credit for making a promise, he doesn't get to attach strings.
when he says "she won because more people voted for her" then we'll know he's serious.
But he needs to acknowledge the legitimacy of her win and the need to respect the will of the voters--the latter point he clearly threw in rubbish when he pursued his stupid superdelegate flip talking points.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... on the same terms as every other runner-up in a primary contest, not on the terms he seems to think he is entitled to dictate.
Think about this scenario: BS and HRC are at this point in opposite positions, i.e. Bernie is far ahead in delegates and votes, and he has far more SDs supporting him than Hillary does.
Now imagine the reaction from Bernie supporters if Hillary still refused to concede, started making demands, and refused to acknowledge Bernie's rightful win and endorse him unless those demands were met.
I can tell you what the reaction would be. The BS supporters would claim that Hillary was attempting to deprive Bernie of his rightful "win" and his place as the presumptive nominee. They would say she is an egotistical bitch who is lashing out because she can't handle having lost. They would say she is willing to sow disunity and discord rather than graciously admit defeat and get behind the nominee.
And if their positions were reversed right now, and people said those things about Hillary, they would be completely justified in doing so.
Where is Bernie's "self-discipline"? Where is his strength of character when it comes to saying "I fought a great fight, but in the end I lost"?
Where is the "Congratulations, Hillary, you won" message from the man who says he stands for "the People", but refuses to acknowledge that the People have spoken?
"Can't you celebrate without attacking Bernie and his supporters?"
More to the point, can't we celebrate without Bernie supporters continuing to attack us? Can't we celebrate Hillary's obvious "win" without having to listen to Bernie's self-serving demands, and his obstinate refusal to concede and endorse our nominee until those demands are met?