Bernie Sanders Flips off Black Voters (figuratively) on his Way out the Door

[bravenak]

Note to Jury: This is a verbatim copy of the title and an excerpt of a source we use all the time at DU. This is not the opinion of the op.

But there’s something even more revealing about Bernie’s speech to supporters, because wrapped around those relevant 107 seconds was about 22 other minutes of Bernie boilerplate that neatly laid out his priorities. Throughout this campaign, Bernie and his supporters have continually insisted that if black voters would only stop and listen and give him a chance, they’d be dazzled by his down-ness and abandon their habitual support for Hillary. So in his speech Thursday night, here’s what Bernie had for black voters:


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4gysjy_bernie-sanders-talks-to-black-voters_news


That’s it. Black people got tacked onto a few lists of other things, and some lines about failing schools and criminal justice reform. Or to put it another way, what black voters could expect from a Rand Paul speech. Not a syllable about ending police brutality or racial profiling, nothing about the Voting Rights Act or any other Republican schemes to disenfranchise black voters, and those are just the easy ones. Fifty-six seconds out of 23 minutes, and none of the bullet points he rushed up onto his website when #BlackLivesMatter protesters hassled him almost a year ago. Yeah, black voters had Bernie all wrong, didn’t they?

http://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-sanders-flips-off-black-voters-on-his-way-out-the-door/














Note to Jury: This is a verbatim copy of the title and an excerpt of a source we use all the time at DU. This is not the opinion of the op.

[SFnomad]

1. I'd put that 'Note to Jury' at the top ... just so it wasn't missed n/t

[bravenak]

4. I'll post it at the top too

[MariaThinks]

58. thanks for posting. Bernie has no special love for minorities

[bravenak]

61. Very apparent

[thesquanderer]

252. Yes, his civil rights actions in the 60s were merely publicity stunts...

...in case he were to run for president some day.

[bravenak]

261. It was TOO LONG AGO to be relevant enough for us to feel a connection to him

You guys can run around screaming about that until you are blue in the face, it makes no difference in how we VOTE.

[thesquanderer]

272. More rules at whim.

First I heard the argument that Hillary had the advantage of having (in conjunction with Bill) demonstrations of solidarity with the black community that went back decades, making Bernie seem like a johnny-come-lately, well-meaning as he may have been. Now it's that Bernie's other demonstrations of solidarity went back *too* far. It seems for you it only counts if it was in some critical period in between. (A period in which he did endorse Jesse Jackson for president and arguably helped him win Vermont, fwiw. And also made some pretty impassioned statements in congress. Maybe he didn't showboat enough, but for those who were paying attention, his concerns were pretty clear... and more consistently on the side of minorities in the Clinton era than the Clintons' own policies and statements have actually been, IMO.)

Also it has been reported that southern AAs *did* like Sanders... just not *enough* to get people to change their votes. There's just a lot of love for Hillary there, and it would be hard for almost anyone (or maybe anyone not AA) to dislodge it. That's not a knock on Bernie.

But more than that, I think your response is a non-sequiter. You and Maria said he had no particular concern for minorities. I reminded you of evidence to the contrary. The fact that the ones I mentioned were too long ago to influence your vote is a different conversation. As would be the relative importance (or not) of the more recent things I mentioned above.

ETA: I thought this was an interesting take on the Clinton AA appeal... http://www.npr.org/2016/03/01/468185698/understanding-the-clintons-popularity-with-black-voters

the argument being it seems to be more image than substance. (Which doesn't make it any easier to counter. As they say, perception is reality...)

[bravenak]

273. We liked him just fine

He just had no connection to us. Which is unusual as hell when he works in DC. It wa not about him 'showboating'. Hell, half his problem was the fact tht those trying to drum up support were negative people. Pressuring us to feel like we owe him something for his work in the sixties. Telling us how he was our best friend. Getting angry and disrespectful we were not already on the bernie bus. Refusing to understand OUR concerns. Harassing John Lewis, why would we ignore that when we see John Lewis as a national fucking icon?

The fact that people were so sure they were in the right of it that they decided that anything they did or said to us in the name of helping bernie or 'correcting us' or 'educating us' was fine whether we liked it or not. Telling us what was best for us like we are children or somehow our brains don't work right gecause we are black, so we needed young white millennials to hound us with old photos of bernie chained to a woman and since she was black like us we were going to be so fucking impressed that we'd kick Hillary to the curb. Name dropping ever single black person that endorsed him like, since they were black like us, we were going to change our minds and follow the black guy. Treating us like we are stupid and hostages of evil hillary and that they were going to white saviour us.

That is the problem. I think they should try not to be so PATERNALISTIC if they want african american ADULTS to be the least bit Interested.

[thesquanderer]

276. Good point about over-zealous supporters. But still I don't think that justifies the premise that...

...Sanders has no particular concern for minorities.

[bravenak]

277. The concern for us is dwarfed by his concern about billionaires.

And his rallies in black populated places were always closer to the whitest area and even at HBCUs the crowds were more than half white, at a black college, which looked bad to us. We really did look at the crowd to decide WHO he was talking to. He did not know enough about us and had he cared to do so, it would have been very easy to figure out how, by hiring blacks in high positions on his staff. Talk about black unemployment but forget to hire blacks and we NOTICE. His top three staffers were white guys with no connection to us. We took that to mean he was not interested in hired us, just paying lip service to black unemployment. We don't care much what a politicians SAYS. We watch what they do. He said great shit.

[thesquanderer]

279. re: "His top three staffers were white guys"

Are any of Hillary's top three staffers AA? (Honestly, I don't know... not sure how you are calculating top three.)

Anyway, AA were represented pretty high up in Sanders' campaign... from a google search:

Christopher Smith is Sanders’ deputy national field director, and Nick Carter is his national deputy political outreach director. Symone Sanders is the face of the campaign as Sanders’ national press secretary. Marcus Ferrell is Sanders’ director, African-American outreach; his deputy is Roy Tatem. Sanders also has a senior adviser for African-American outreach: Donni Turner.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2016/01/a_who_s_who_of_who_s_black_on_the_campaign_trail/

And that was from an article on Jan 30, so not late additions once he saw he was having issues with the AA vote, as no primaries had yet been held.

[bravenak]

281. He started the campaign nearly a year before that date of jan 30

He should have laid the groundwork way before that. Hillary had HUNDREDS of people out giving small events to do outreach to AAs. People we like. People we respect. People who were not controversial in our community. He had liberal elitists from academia like Cornel West who had cause a lot of controversy with his racially charged language towards Obama. We sided with Obama over Cornel, so it showed how out of touch he was with our community when he used Cornel as a surrogate. Cornel became an Uncle Ruckus with his 'niggerized' comments. To choose him is like choosing one of those Fox News type black guys who denigrate the black community, to not know that is to not know the first thing about us. It was a slap in the face to us, regardless of the high esteem the progressive white community hold him in.

Without question, his top three said and did things that should have never been said or done. Calling the south the confederacy when a high number of southern DEMOCRATIC VOTERS are BLACK. That was a terrible mistake. Telling the North they were 'too smart' to not vote fir him, implied that the southern voters who rejected him were STUPID. Saying we'd come to him once we 'got it' implied that we did not 'get things' and were defective. On and on, one by one he LOST votes.

But I do realize that he said it was his intention to bring working class whites back to the party and we should not base our votes on our color. And he did say he was making a play for Trump voters and that he was not competing in the south. Why should we feel important when he avoided the area of the south where we were a large share of democratic voters, and tried for trump voters and the whitest states. He felt like we were distractions. That planned parenthood was the establishment. That class trumps race. He was just wrong. Next candidate needs to come to us early and often and not make us into a throw away line or a talking point in his message. He was talking to you, that is why you heard him the way you did and were satisfied.

So no. I do not think we were important. We were just votes. Not 'his' voters, not his revolution.

[thesquanderer]

282. re: "he was not competing in the south" - He tried hard in SC.

Once he saw that he was unable to make inroads, he made the strategic decision to commit fewer resources to states that the SC experience taught him he could not do well in no matter how much time and money he put into it.

re: "planned parenthood was the establishment." -- their political arm is part of the establishment in that, pretty much by definition, any established lobbying group is. (That doesn't mean he wouldn't have liked the endorsement, it just meant that he was not dumbstruck by not getting it.)

Anyway, no doubt, he could have done a better job. I also believe, though, that while he could have done better, he could not have unseated Hillary in most of these hearts and minds. Which again, I don't see as a knock on Bernie as much as a testament to the success of Hillary.

[bravenak]

283. I think it was less about money and more about how we operate

We do not go to huge rallys. We like to meet the candidate and know they are not scared of being seen 'pandering' to us. But yes, it is a testament to how well hillary salvaged her relationship with us. We were pissed at her in 08 but she embraced Obama. I honestly think he had no chance with us after calling for Obama to be primaried. I am surprised he did as well as he did, but do see it was mostly with those too young to have voted for Obama. If I had remembered that he had said O should face a primary, I would not have given him a first look, to be honest.

[floriduck]

62. Is it Monday yet? Maybe I'll sleep the weekend away.

[Hekate]

214. Always a good idea

[tonyt53]

2. But the truth hurts some people's feelings little too easily.

[bravenak]

6. It sure does

I call them sore losers

[Silver_Witch]

202. Unlike sore winners....

...amazing simply amazing.

[bravenak]

204. I thought it was not over until the convention?

If it's still on then it's on. Play hardball get hardball. Makes sense.

[Silver_Witch]

209. Actually no...you know it is over - stop pouting

Whining and pouting when you are the winner is so confusing. Seriously what is up with that?

[bravenak]

210. lol

[zappaman]

3. who?

[bravenak]

5. There was this guy once who wanted to be coronated

But he had no clothes so the pied piper took him away, like a rat or something. Or maybe he was the pied piper, idk. Ya know. It might be a myth, maybe he never really existed. But the kids loved when he plyed his pipes. Followed him and we will never see them on election day.

[workinclasszero]

7. Well he wrote PoC off when he dismissed the whole south

a long time ago.

So just like his stock speech he always gives, nothings changed.

[bravenak]

8. He never really says anything different

[WhiteTara]

9. I didn't listen to the speech

but did he even mention women't issues? Or was it all the same, "Millionaires and Billionaires"

[bravenak]

10. Mentioned us in passing

While trying to compare his 'movement' to the women's right movement, civil rights movement, etc.. Tone deaf

[WhiteTara]

11. No word on how he will change the way abortion is being

denied to women in this country? No wage disparity? No mention of the double burden on working women? No talk about national childcare?

[bravenak]

14. Not much about that stuff

Just rhetoric and 'support'. I would not call him a champion for our rights

[WhiteTara]

16. Me either. I think it was telling that

Hillary gave her first speech as the presumptive nominee to Planned Parenthood. That said to me that she is going to work for women's rights and needs.

[bravenak]

20. Once he called them the 'establishment' I knew what time it was

[bettyellen]

121. Hell to the yes, my friend! I saw what time it was....

And someone was directing us to the back of their bus again. Not happening.

[bravenak]

122. It was brutal how they went after PP

Time and time again the groups that help the marginalized were attacked. Not a revolution.

[bettyellen]

149. And dozens of people here explaining Bernie wants abortion on demand till they day of birth....

Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)

I guess when you're winging this shit, it's easy to miss that no one else supports that position. But I guess it's supposed to be okay because he was not planning on doing shit about it anyway.
Ridiculous. He lost me when he went sour grapes on PP. So foolish!

[bravenak]

153. He lost me last summer when I realized

That he does not seem to have our backs. I think he really doesn't know what we think because all he hears are his supporters singing his praises. I feel bad for him but we are going to move on. I really did like his ideas better but I could see no pathway.

[Maru Kitteh]

198. One-note Johnnie.

Planned Parenthood is the establishment? Just because they didn't support you?
White people don't know what it's like to live in "the ghetto?" ( and what is this, 1964?)

There isn't a subject on Earth he doesn't take straight back to Oligarchy! Big Banks! 1%!

This utterly dismisses the very real concerns of PoC, LGBTQ, and women in ALL strata of society. It's not all about the damn banks Mr. Sanders! It's about the bigotry. That's what really effects our day to day lives.

[bravenak]

200. Remember that Care-Bear who had that storm cloud for his patch?

Reminds me of him. Gloom and doom prevails.

[JCanete]

12. Jesus Bravenak, quit selling this crap.

Sanders is the only candidate I can think of who has actually brought white middle class white men over to a movement and policy platform that actually advocates for issues that help the poor and the marginalized, that actually abhores scape-goating minorities and isn't a party to it, that could have successfully united people towards a common cause of affordable education, livable minimum wage, government accountability campaign finance reform, and on and on and on.

It's you, you and the Brockian operatives and the establishment media at large, who helped to make sure that would never happen. Why? I know why the establishment did it, but why have you leant such a hand to the divide-and-conquer bullshit here on this board?

I'll leave it at that, because I tend to see that the more thorough my replies are the more likely they are to get ignored. Maybe I left a thread that you can pull on and show your selective outrage. At least then I'll get a response.

[bravenak]

18. Nope.

White middle class men have rarely had the issues of young black women at the forefront of their thoughts. So why should I care about bringing them in? Nothing is stopping them from participating in the democratic party excepting the fact that folks like me have collective power in the Democratic party - they want that for themselves.

Most democrats want similar things to him, but they have a plan and a DIVERSE group of supporters and are willing to accept when they were outvoted. Stop trying to analyze postes on the internet that you are not connected to or e-friends with. It's easier to just ignore those you dislike.

[JCanete]

34. I don't care whether you care about white middle class men. If you cared about policies that

actually impact people of color and other marginalized communities, then you would see bringing people who traditionally vote against those interests on board, not with lies but with galvanizing truths, as unprecedented and significant.

If you actually cared, you wouldn't have helped to marginalize good policies by painting the person bringing them as a black-hating tin-eared old white man.

Also, please have the decency to admit that you analyze Bernie supporters you don't know all the time. Why would you tell me not to do the same?

[Demsrule86]

112. The trouble is Bernie's policies are for white middle class men mostly

Not women and not POC.

[cherokeeprogressive]

137. So free education and income inequality is for white middle class men and not PoC or women.

Does it make you feel the slightest bit strange to make such bullshit statements? The slightest?

[Demsrule86]

172. He has no interest in social issues

like abortion rights and contraceptive rights...I have not heard him say anything about human rights...a $15.00 minimum won't increase job opportunities for POC...who have terrible unemployment ...or help a woman facing jail in a state that will try her for murder for taking the abortion pill. Everyone wants to fix income inequality...been talked about for a long time. But I need more than what Sanders is offering. This is why I am with her.

[Hekate]

217. +1000

[ForgoTheConsequence]

230. "Everyone wants to fix income inequality"

No they don't. If they did the divide wouldn't be growing every fucking year. Your entire post was a "fuck you" to poor people of all races and sexes.

[RogueTrooper]

289. Excellent points Demsrule86

Income inequality (or class, if you will) is the only degradation white men experience; thus it is, in their eyes, the most important issue to be addressed or, at the most extreme end, the only valid concern for progressives. This sort of progressive paternalism treats women and POC issues as either second class issues or issues that will magically disappear when their paternalistic "magic sauce" is applied.

[AntiBank]

246. do you actually believe the shit you say?

you cant possibly

[anigbrowl]

189. Argh, enough already

This post reeks of 'you don't know what's good for you,' an attitude that seems endemic among certain kinds of Marxists. It's not the leftist economic policy that I disagree with most of the time, but the notion that everything else flows from that policy - it's the left's version of 'a rising tide lifts all boats,' well-intentioned but somewhat naive to the point of being obstructive.

Lots of people on the left cling to the idea that if people can get an economic fair shake and make a decent living to the point that they're not under financial stress all the time, then they'll default to being nice to each other, because sexism/racism/whateverism is just part of the ruling elite's divide-and-conquer strategy to maintain superiority in the class struggle. This has its roots in the belief of French philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau that humanity is basically good if left alone. This in turn has its roots in the book of Genesis, with the religious conceit that humankind was created perfect until Satan showed up and tricked Eve into eating the apple, and that in turn has its roots in the naivete of childhood and dependence on parents followed by more or less painful adjustment to the rest of the world.

There's another school of thought, which follows the philosopher Thomas Hobbes in considering that life in a state of nature was typically 'nasty, brutish, and short' and that a lot of the time people are selfish assholes by default. I don't fully subscribe to this but it's not like we're short of evidence for the proposition that assholes beget more assholes. Myself, I think we're more creatures of our biology than we'd like to admit, and that while we tend slightly altruistic at the individual animal level the majority of us have a very strong drive towards group membership and competition between groups is fairly intense, historically speaking. Conflicts between groups and individuals almost always go badly for the individual actors.

[Hekate]

219. Oh gods yes. You articulate so well my central problem with Marxist economic critique.

So what if I make $15/hour and college is free?

It will still be well nigh impossible to go to college if I have no control over my own fertility because contraception and abortion are nowhere available in my state. Or affordable childcare.

And that is just ONE of the innumerable issues left unaddressed and/or dismissed by Bernie.

How is Planned Parenthood "The establishment"? Their clinics get shot up or burned down all the time, their doctors get assassinate, their staffers and their staffers' kids get stalked. What the hell, Bernie?

[JCanete]

253. Bernie has always been good on those issues. He's not the one with a "nuanced"

opinion on late term abortions. In what alternate universe did he not advocate for women's rights, because not this one.

It is not always the damning critique you want it to be when the Sanders camp calls an institution establishment. He had no animosity towards Planned Parenthood and neither do I. I've sent planned parenthood money in the past because I know it's constantly under attack, and that it is a fundamental institution. But nobody should be surprised that it aligned itself with the establishment candidate. And hell, why not. Bernie was going to be there for it no matter what. I'd like to think that Hillary would have been, but I don't know. Maybe her priorities get shuffled around some depending on whether or not these organizations have "done the right thing" and gone in on her campaign. And Its not like she wasn't almost a shoe-in for the GE.

The bottom line is these decisions are made politically. Not every institution playing ball is bad for playing ball. Its not on them that this is the system we have, but its hard to ignore that this is the system we have, so when people try, and this is always what the Bernie camp has responded to, to shame the Sanders campaign by saying, ..."er hey, how come if you're so good on these issues these organizations aren't endorsing you"... explaining that they are part of and working within the establishment is a legitimate and honest answer. It does not belittle the actual struggles that people in planned parenthood are dealing with.

[JCanete]

254. What did I say that was naive? You are characterizing my post and assuming that

I believe that dealing with these economic issues is a magic bullet. I'm not. I am saying that its crazy not to start with the economic issues, because of all the ways in which instability and fear and uncertainty make us less rational, and make people far more susceptible to all kinds of scapegoating and fear-mongering. It divides us.

Going after the power-brokers who fucking love to divide us, and getting people on the same side, seems like something we should all want.

It's almost a tactic of shutting down debate at this point to say that anytime somebody tries to explain why they think a candidate is the better candidate that that is saying "you don't know what is good for you." You do understand that plenty of people are avoiding the issues entirely, and just using voting results as "evidence" of the quality of the candidate don't you? Don't you think something about that is ridiculous?

As to people, we are absolutely a product of our biology and evolution. Part of that evolution is our development of empathy. The thing about empathy is that we only have it for those who we see as ourselves. So yes, people are brutish, and assholes do beget assholes, but as a society, the less we are capable of aligning people to the same side, the less we promote empathy and a brotherly spirit. The more we make them afraid for their security, the more they will try to find easy answers that fit their world views, and justifications for not sharing their scraps.

The more we show them that their interests are their neighbors, the more we can bridge that rift, the more we can try to tease out that other side of human nature, that is cooperative and loving. Again, the economics are a fundamental road-block to change, they aren't all that change amounts to.

[melman]

44. lol @ 'e-friends'

This is not Facebook. You don't get to control who sees or comments on your posts.

[bravenak]

53. I never told her not to comment

Just to not think about trying to control what strangers write. Thanks!

[stonecutter357]

81. +1000

[tonyt53]

19. "White middle class men" - what age are you talking about?

Better educated white men AND women have been and are backing Hillary. Are you by any chance talking about those white millennial males?

[JCanete]

22. I'm talking about the votes Bernie got early in the campaign that were denigrated, used

intentionally to sell a narrative that Bernie is a candidate for white people.

[JCanete]

45. Do you let policies do any talking? Or do you just like soft cooing sounds?

What is Hillary actually offering by way of policies that does a damn thing for marginalized communities?

And yes, I know who voted for him, particularly in the early states. I remember the very organized machinery that went to work undermining Sander's civil rights record, pointing to his favorability in white states as evidence in and of itself of where his interests lied, and all of this at a time when he was still mostly unknown in these states. That got to be the the message that people heard first about this candidate, that he was an old white dude who white people liked. Shit, if I were in the south and my trusted news sources were telling me this about him, I may not give him a second look either. Life is short, and nothing about that outward portrait is appealing, and we all use short hand.

[bravenak]

57. Policy takes compromise

I heard none of that coming from him. And it was not particulary the early states it was all the way through, except michigan. DC proved that by the wide spread and very diverse electorate. The electorate that looks most like me and my famiy gave Hillary an almost 60 point spread.

[JCanete]

73. Compromise takes starting from a place of wanting something and demanding it.

What we've mostly gotten for the last forty years is a compromise that has amounted to losing less than what people want to take away from us. Yay Team!

The problem that we are having, us Liberal Bernie Supporters, is that we don't believe any more, that our team captains aren't okay with stuff being taken away.

So when you say policy takes compromise, well where are you starting on any issue under the sun. What are you demanding, what is Hillary demanding for us, that we are going to then use as a starting point to get the needle to move left? And in how many other areas are we compromising to get that little bit of movement?

Hey, the incrementalism argument is a legitimate argument, but you've got to show us what we're getting. Make a case that we've made progress in the last 40 years. I can only think of 2 achievements ... Gay Marriage, and "affordable" care. The first one is amazing, but we should have gotten it sooner if we'd quit playing kabuki theater politics, and the second one remains to be seen. As is, it does some wonderful things but has no pricing controls. Now people are a captive clientele for the big bad insurance companies, and rates are crazy.

2 things in 40 years that moved us in the right direction as a nation. Maybe I'm leaving off some important achievements, and you can let me in on those, but I can think of way too many ways in which we've moved right. If that is incrementalism as you define it, it is not for me.

[bravenak]

78. Attacking segments of the Democratic party is not demanding change

Getting change takes way more than demanding things. It take the work to build a big enough coalition to out vote the other side. Not everyone in such a big ass coalition is going to agree on everything. But trying to take the party down because they lost is why things are what they are.

It took HUNDREDS OF YEARS of compromises to get black folks freedom. Hundred more to get voting rights. Will take more to get full equality and end insitutional racism. That is what we have been incrementalizing ourselves towards since we landed on these shores. You Feel impatient? How you think we feel after those years and generations of work and it is pissed on as not a real accomplishment because it was not instantaneous?

We watch folks bray and scream about hw bad shit is for them. It looks like privilege from down here cause you all is doing way better than us, so we just do nOT understand why YOU GUYS think you have reason to be madder than or pissed off at us. I guess we just see things from a different perspective.

[JCanete]

86. attacking the influence on the democratic party that is too cozy with Wall Street and big money

is something I want of my democratic candidate. Why on earth would you expect the establishment to change things if there is no popular demand for it to do so? We're not trying to take down the party, we're trying to reform it. You can continue to fight that reform, and you may win, but why is that what you're fighting for?

Have you looked at the conditions for people of color in the last 40 years? Surprise, there's been no financial improvement. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if you look at cost of living, there's been a decline. The very markets that industries that Clinton is cozy with do a number on people of color. They do a number on us all, but particularly poor and marginalized communities.

I'm not mad and braying or screaming. I'm not the one creating posts like this. I am frustrated that you, you in the specific(as well as others on this so called democratic board)are continuing to mischaracterize what Bernie stands for, to all of our detriment.

And I'm frustrated that you would continue to prop up a candidate who has done so badly for us all. I'm just as frustrated that nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to pull down the veil and tell us what it is that Hillary is going to do that you are so excited about. You have all seemed to reduce Hillary's platform down to practical, incremental change, but you still have nothing to point to as an example of that.

[bravenak]

93. There has most CERTAINLY been a rise in wages for black americans

Go look. Only white males have had a wage stagnation, in party because our wages were kept artificially low to give them that benefit of good wages. Many blacks were kept out of certain unions and had issues breaking the color barrier.

You are looking at it from the pov that all thing affected all groups equally. The reason the wage stagnation anger never came to us is that we have never done better than under Bill Clinton. Ever.

[JCanete]

98. I will look. but I'm not talking about there being a boost under Clinton.

Everybody got richer under Clinton, particularly the rich, but it wasn't without a cost, and his policies eroded some of those gains for the future..things like NAFTA in particular. I'm talking about where poc are now versus where they were in 1990.

I'll look though, and cop to it if I believe the numbers tell a different story than mine, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not off on this one. I've got to go to work now, so it will be later.

[bravenak]

99. Just look. Things are better for us now than forty years ago

That was the disconnect.

[JCanete]

255. Okay Bravenak, so here's a starting place. Tell me what I'm not understanding here, because

I'm not seeing how things are better for people of color today, based on the graphs and charts in this NYT article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/upshot/americas-racial-divide-charted.html?_r=0

There are a couple bright spots: poverty rates have gone down, though they're still staggering, for instance. But take a look at that wealth gap!!! Take a look at the trend of that wealth line and tell me our economic policies haven't screwed people of color in a big fucking way.

[bravenak]

262. White folks worry about the wealth gap between them and other rich white folks

We are still trying to get where you are so, think about yourselves as the oligarchs, if that helps you understand. You feel like the wealthy are keeping you down and we feel like you are keeping us down. It ain't the banksters that are on our juries. It aint the banksters who refuse to hire us. It aint the banksters at Donald Trump rallys, and it was not the banksters that invented the policies to keep us out of SS for so long. It was your average white jon q public., that is our fight and we are not done.

[JCanete]

265. look at the wealth gap between white folks and black folks!!! look at the fact that it has increased

and that black people, according to this data, have no increase in personal wealth in the last 30 years. In fact it looks like a slight decline.

Its the banksters who are continuing to beat us with divide and conquer, so yes it is the banksters doing all that. They like us fighting over the scraps, black people blaming the middle class white folks and middle class white folks blaming people of color and immigrants in general. It doesn't matter that there is more merit to the culpability of white people, because all of us are being played, and all of us are losing, but people of color in particular.

[bravenak]

268. We do not blame the banksters

There are layers of oppression between us and them and you are smack dab in the middle of it. We know it is the entirety of the nation that has preyed upon us. Look at the liberal bastion of Seattle, all nice and white and progressive. Check the arrest rate there fir blacks, how often black children are arrested at school, the poverty rate for blacks and yiu will see that it is not good. Progressive white liberals have not done well at giving up OPPORTUNITY. We lack the opportunity to close that wealth gap because of average joes standing in our way. And stepping on our necks. And refusing to hire us. And arresting our children. And sitting on Juries. And denying fund to our schools through the school boards city councils, state legislatures.

[JCanete]

274. All of that is true except that you insist on ignoring human psychology and how

that of white and black people continues to be manipulated. You don't think that the power of race-baiting messages is influenced by financial insecurity? You don't think that democrats and republicans love keeping the fight on the social issues while entirely ignoring those economics?

I agree with you, racism is not simply an issue of economics and I have never suggested otherwise. But if we don't look at the economics, and if we don't tear down the walls between us by uniting us against a common adversary that is real(look at where all the money is actually going), our situation is going to continue to be intractable on the social issues, because scapegoating and race-baiting are going to continue to be powerful rallying cries for people who are just scared and want to lash out, or want to make sure that nothing is taken away from them to give to someone else, so will continue to ameliorate their cognitive dissonance with justifications about "those people."

We absolutely don't need to shut up about racism and injustice, but we need to acknowledge the economic and psychological angle if we want to actually do something about it.

[bravenak]

275. If somebody is manipulated into harming you, do you give the actor a pass and just focus on

the 'puppet master'. All this here is is a way to shift all of the blame off of average people and onto a nameless and faceless oligarchy. Race baiting is done by average folks with no influence from the rich and powerful. In fact, many times through our history blacks have had to turn to those establishment power brokers to get assistance in dealing with the working or middle class whites. Take the Greenwood riot and read about it. Think about it. It was regular white folks who saw that black were accumulating wealth and they lynched them for it and destroyed their property. It was not rhetoric from the wealthy that caused it, it was petty human envy and jealousies and the fact that they saw us as animals who did not deserve our wealth. And so the world turns.

[JCanete]

288. It depends on what your agenda is. The question is do you want change, for the better,

and what course of action can actually make achieving it a possibility. If you continue to focus your energy on fighting the manipulated and not the manipulators, you will not be able to break this cycle. In fact, you'll help to feed it.

And while it's true that everybody but the top(and they are not nameless or faceless) are losing in this battle, marginalized populations continue to lose more. You say that life is better for black people since the early nineties, but the numbers don't paint a clear picture of that improvement at all. You say that things like the Greenwood riot happened in a vacuum of institutional racism, but you know that's not true. We're still living with the consequences of Slavery and how it was promoted and sold today. In the south, slavery was sold to poor white people in large part by selling their superiority over black people. It was economically bad for poor white people, but at least they had the right skin color, and got to think what ever bullshit they wanted about being I don't know, God's manifest chosen, or whatever nonsense, and so while Europe had long dismantled slavery not out of altruism, but out of economic self-interest of the working class, here in America, our ancestors were buying total bullshit because it stroked our egos and because it was good not to be a slave.

So yes it was a history of institutional forces that reinforced that sense of entitlement that those white people in Greenwood had. The reality was not matching the vision of the world they'd been sold, and outraged, and encouraged culturally to not think of black people as actual people, they exhibited the worst of human nature, a total lack of empathy that leant a hand in their murdering and destruction, and a greed and envy that helped to further entrench and justify that lack of empathy.

Yes, it is human, and because of their historic colonial dominance, particularly European, to be barbarically tribalistic. In fact, superficial indicators like skin color have been shown to be actual barriers to the firing of mirror neurons, which essentially means that at a fundamental level, some people are not seeing others as themselves. I can only assume that there is an evolutionary purpose for distinguishing people as other(even when they aren't) so that tribes would be more capable of killing people from enemy tribes and taking their food and resources, while being caring and cooperative with those members of their own tribe.

Well this is what our system of government continues to prey on. "look at those brown people taking your jobs or ruining your neighborhoods." "Look at those racist people! Down with racists!" And all the while the policies continue to bilk everybody. The lie is that people of color have anything to do with increased poverty or decreased incomes among whites. On the other hand, it is true that whites continue to institutionally have every leg up that could be had over people of color, which probably makes them more complacent even as they continue to lose. But everybody should be following the money! It is all going up!

Racism continues to be an almost insurmountable barrier for people of color to have a chance in this society, but if you want to change it, why continue to let a prevailing narrative be about what white people might lose? They aren't going to listen and nobody is going to make them listen, if they are too busy trying to hold onto their shit!!! But maybe they'll listen if we can help them realize that it isn't the people they've been told who are taking their shit. Maybe, as Bernie showed was possible, they'll even entertain notions of equality and equity if they aren't freaking the fuck out about "what is theirs." It doesn't have to be a zero sum game of either the white middle class or the poor and other marginalized communities winning. The wealth in this nation is staggering, and we could do so much with it, and so much of it was pilfered from the commons, or ripped from the hands of families who scraped honestly for it(particularly in vulnerable communities), through shady predatory practices, and now its all concentrated in the hands of the few and doing none of us any good.

It does take dismantling the machinery and not just wack-a-molling the toxic products it produces Bravenak. We will never win change that way.

[kacekwl]

249. +1000

[angrychair]

91. As I've stated many times

It's easy to talk about the virtues of compromise when you are not the one being compromised."
Angrychair

[SidDithers]

83. Jury results coming...nt

Sid

[bravenak]

88. Deleted it

Only can Hillary be talked about like she is clueless

[PeaceNikki]

85. just finished a jury for this. Results will be posted soon.

[bravenak]

90. I took it down so I can stay on this thread.

Sad they alert so many of my lovely posts.

[PeaceNikki]

92. It would have survived. Stupid alert, like most on you I've seen.

[bravenak]

96. I know. I find it very tedious

I would hate to be in the middle of a conversation and be barred from completing my discussion.

[PeaceNikki]

125. Which is the precise intent.

[Thinkingabout]

23. Its about more than white middle class men, this group has fewer numbers than POC and women.

In the past it was about white middle class men, it isn't anymore.

[JCanete]

38. Of course it is, and my point wasn't that was all that was ever needed. My point was that there was

a very concerted effort, since it was a strength of Bernie's to be able to pull these votes, to paint him as a candidate only for these votes. It was ridiculously successful at a time when Bernie was still just getting visibility in some of these early voting states. If the DNC had actually been behind him in any way, if the machinery of the establishment hadn't been so uniformly against him, maybe the numbers wouldn't have been so lopsided.

[Thinkingabout]

42. It is the responsibility of the candidates to present themselves in the primaries.

Why do you think the numbers may have been lopsided? Because the majority is not white middle class men. Ergo lopsided voting by the groups which did not fit in the white middle class men. If Sanders chose to target the white middle class men then it is not the DNC's responsibility to change his direction.

[JCanete]

48. Spoken like a person who must not believe that money has an influence on politics or the message.

I keep trying to explain to you how the machinery was a big part of this. Hell, this was just yesterday, and its still fresh in my memory. There are countless examples. You want to pretend that the playing field is even. You want to pretend that campaigns themselves control the message, and the best message wins, as if it doesn't get filtered, blocked, distorted, or preempted through messaging at a very sophisticated level and degree of penetration.

If that helps you sleep at night, that's great, but I'm a hell of a lot more cynical than you are about our process.

[Thinkingabout]

56. It isn't the money influence on politics, how many times has Sanders talked about

Raising money for his campaign? It is still the responsibility of the candidate to present their platform and see of the voters buy into it. The playing field is what the candidate brings to the field, some wins some loses. If Sanders had the platform and the experience Hillary has then he would be the nominee. Don't blame the DNC or Hillary for these facts, and it isn't the money.

[JCanete]

68. so you are saying, because I assume you believe it, that the media doesn't have a dog in the fight,

that big money doesn't have a dog in the fight, or that if it does, it just throws away all that money for the fuck of it and has no real influence. I am not saying that you should have voted for Bernie because you should care about campaign finance issues and money in politics. I am saying that the playing field was skewed in this primary because of that very money.

It's not simply about the money that the candidate raises. That's just part of the picture. It's the whole media machinery and the insider, chummy relationship that these "impartial" journalists and pundits have with the politicians, and about who they themselves work for.

Again, you can disagree. I envy that rose colored world, but at least understand what it is I'm saying.

[Thinkingabout]

84. Then after listening to Sanders he was not the one I should vote.

[brewens]

24. It's the don't take yes for an answer mentality. Of all the good things about Bernie that

should appeal to PoC, it's the one thing he didn't do that should stand out. He didn't take bribes from the for profit prison crooks.

[uponit7771]

26. No, the DNC needs to change this NOW... no more "movements" without PoC issues at the top

[JCanete]

39. what are you talking about uponit? Why don't you tell me how Hillary's policies are better for

POC than Bernie's? Just so you know, I expect you to avoid that relatively simple question in favor of focusing elsewhere, and I know I can count on you. But to your credit, you seem more willing than some to actually engage in a conversation. You don't simply hit-and-run and then block a person, so kudos.

[BootinUp]

40. Bernie's policies are pipe dreams. Compared to that Hillary's would kick ass. nt

[JCanete]

49. I think you just summed up a Hillary supporter's position, superbly, and even with

more substance than usual.

[BootinUp]

50. Cool. nt

[The Wielding Truth]

66. So you are saying universal health care, free public college, $15 min wage are pipe dreams?

So many other things were pipe dreams: Woman's right to vote, Black civil rights,Gay marriage, I could go on for a very long time. Is it our purpose as Democrats to dismiss the things this country needs as pipe dreams?

Sure would make the 1% happier. Not us.

[BootinUp]

67. This is a national election not an election in Vermont

or California.

[The Wielding Truth]

72. Well. We are going with Hillary, but our goals should still be our dreams. Even our "pipe" dreams.

This is a nation where dreamers of Progress and freedoms should be championed. I think even Hillary would agree with that.

[BootinUp]

74. If she has the Congress to do it, she will stick to her campaign promises.

If Congress came up with something that was arguably better and paid for etc. I am sure she would take a very hard look at it.

[JCanete]

89. ooh ooh ooh, what were those? I'm totally going to hold her to the nothing she promised. nt

[BootinUp]

95. The reason Bernie had to go after her character was exactly

because her promises were relatively close to his or close enough that he wasn't getting traction.

I would also point out that reviews and endorsements of her promises have found them to be very detailed and sound from a budget perspective.

If you are ever interested:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Later.

[The Wielding Truth]

164. So If congress takes the lead she my give it a hard look? Is that what you really said?

[BootinUp]

166. Its written the way I meant it. nt

[The Wielding Truth]

181. Thanks. It's all clear now.

[Demsrule86]

106. What about K-12...do you know how many poor kids are in crappy schools

or Wall Street schools also known as Charter schools? Not a word from Bernie about this. Poor people who don't have access to good schools would pay through payroll taxes for Bernies free college... many of them would not be able to go. He said he would use payroll taxes to fund this...how is that progressive?

[Amimnoch]

159. Here's a little exercise in reality...

Take the upcoming 115th congress... The first one either Hillary or Bernie would have to work with.

Take all of the remaining primary elections, and pick the candidate you want.. Think of this as picking your fantasy politician team.

Then, take the candidates that, if you were the sole selector, and assume they all win their seats in the General election.

Now, with your fantasy politician team, show me a roll call vote.. Senate or house or both, where ANY of those policies would be enacted into a bill that would make it to a President Sanders desk.

I've had my list in a spreadsheet since early last year, with a few updates as the season kicked off, and in February, I lost my dream fillibuster proof Senate majority, and in May I lost my majority house that would pass those bills.

Yes, for the forseeable future, they are.

It takes a Congress!

[The Wielding Truth]

178. Congress is controlled by the will of their constitutes unless(reality shows them corrupt) but

if the will of their constituents matter, then having a strong platform with pushy Progressives, will get their way,then it is more probable that we will have a better country.

Fortunately, this can be reality, in a strong healthy democracy which we must tweak into existence.

Reality can be molded. It may not be easy but it can be done. Look at the get reality shapers of our lifetime. Remember Cheney and Rumsfeld's realities? What they led us to? Now. Does Bernie's seem so far fetched or so bad. So you give a little so we have a smarter young America.

Congress is not unshakable.

[kacekwl]

250. Pipe dreams ? So

that means we can except nothing new from Hillary. If so please tell me what.

[Duval]

32. Here's a response..I agree and thanks!

[Armstead]

264. BINGO!

[politicaljunkie41910]

266. Are you saying that there were no middle class white men in the Dem party before Bernie.

Gee I'm sure that's news to a lot of white men I know. BTW, every four years there's a new group of young white men and women that reach voting age and join the Democratic party. Some even join in the off presidential election years. Bernie's folks were just a lot more obnoxious and garnered more attention. But by no means were they non-existent in previous years. And even though there were more registered, this year, they don't seem to have voted at the same rate as they registered.

[JCanete]

269. That sure isn't what I was saying. That would have been convenient for you, but it doesn't reflect

the reality. I'm a white male myself and I've been a democrat for over a decade. I'm saying that there is a swath of the voter base that has traditionally voted conservative, and given in large part that they had no good candidate, and that Bernie's message of corruption in Washington resonated with them, he was able to bring some over to a cause that united them with other interests that they would typically have been afraid of and opposed to, because they would have seen them as a threat to their own well being and financial security. Getting them to actually vote their best interests, that I'll repeat, were actually aligned to the best interests of poor and marginalized communities, was an impressive feat.

[politicaljunkie41910]

278. That is not what you said in the post that I responded to, so don't try and clean it up now.

If you said it somewhere else that's a different matter, though my response would still be the same based on what you said in the post that I responded to. If you're going to make statements with references somewhere else, I suggest you post links to those references or footnotes.

[JCanete]

280. Maybe I did some clarifying, but I never said anywhere in my post what you claimed,

which is that there were no white male democrats before Bernie.

[cali]

13. you really can't stop. it's revealing.

this is a man who literally put his body on the line for civil rights. And your hate for him- and boy, have you firmly demonstrated that it is hate, is something you embrace. It seems to be all you care about.

It's sad and petty and ultimately unhealthy.

[bravenak]

21. I don't hate anybody

Except those who fuck with me daily.

[cali]

31. So stop fucking with others. You post nasty, ugly op after op

no one is forcing you to behave in such a way.

It looks like hate. It sounds like hate. Frankly, it's beginning to look obsessive. And you certainly don't discuss issues.

[bravenak]

36. Nothing is wrong with this op

And blackness in america is an issue, my issue, an issue that many dismiss as a fucking distraction. Now, when they stop acting like black don't matter and we should stfu about blackness and antiblack racism,and let them do all the talking and deciding and calling us race baiters, I will stfu. Until then? Hell no. Respect or nothing. I won't play nicey nicey with all these fans following me to harass and bully. They need someone to hate and here I is. They can hate me and use their energy on me and leave everybody else tf alone.

[Demsrule86]

107. Having seen the stuff you post...that is hillarious.

You have no right to castigate her...I guess your usual alert failed huh. New jury system coming...the Bernie fun and games will end.

[Perogie]

186. I agree with Cali

You keep slinging mud. I can list a dozen or more things that Hilliary has said that should have made you post how bad she is, but alas you were silent.

Move on already, Hilliary won.

[bravenak]

193. Why should I post negative things about Hillary?

She has moved on to the general. Someone is still fighting a primary. The result is mediaite posted a piece on his stump speech he gave yesterday. If he were not still in primary mode, nobody would bring him up.

[msongs]

37. "put his body on the line"... like millions of others. boy is he something special or what?? nt

[bravenak]

60. We must owe him for all eternity

[cali]

128. no, millions of others- particularly millions of white people

did nothing like this. It is patently false to claim that. Unsurprised that you would make such a claim.

[bravenak]

131. So do we owe him for all eternity?

[cali]

138. did I say anything remotely like that? No. Of course not.

No one owes him anything but to blatantly lie and discount what he did, is despicable.

[bravenak]

139. So if we dont owe him, what does it matter what he did fifty years ago?

Unless he is in the movement today it is not as relevant as current activism.

[cali]

156. It matters as fact. Simple fact.

The person I responded to, made a blatantly false statement. I corrected it. History may not matter to you, it does to me. I care that Hillary Clinton worked for children 40 years ago. I think it's relevant. But what I think is flat wrong is to lie and say millions of people did what Bernie did in the early 60s.

Facts don't seem to be important to you. That's your business. Facts and history are important to me.

Look, I'm just done with people like you who have no problem twisting things to fit their narrative. I know that matters not to you, and there's no particular reason it should.

Our values are clearly quite different. I see no reason why we should continue to engage, but I wish you the best.

Have a lovely long Alaskan summer.

[bravenak]

160. Millions did do what he did

Most of them were black but many many other white did it too. People say it like he was a singular white male doing what others of his age and time were not doing. They were. Colleges all over the nation had white students fighting on our side. Millions of them were with us, not just him. Millions. I thank them all but that matters not a but at the ballot box.

[cali]

169. I'm done. That is demonstrably false.

As I said, I value facts.

No, millions certainly did not go to the lengths he did in pursuing civil rights. Certainly not millions of whites. You can take your extreme feelings about Bernie and nurture them through the long summer nights. Suckling vituperative feelings isn't my thing.

Goodbye, Bravenak.

You are now the sole person on my hide list.

[bravenak]

170. I am overjoyed

[George II]

115. John Lewis put his body on the line for civil rights. How specifically did Sanders....

...."literally put his body on the line for civil rights"?

[Hekate]

224. John Lewis, who had his skull bashed in for civil rights, was tossed under the bus for endorsing HRC

HE put his body on the line back in the day.

Dolores Huerta, who had her ribs stove in for civil rights/labor rights, was tossed under the bus for endorsing HRC.

SHE put her body on the line back in the day.

I appreciate Sanders' awareness and activities when he was young, as it was very important -- but Lewis and Huerta then spent their entire lives working for the cause and La Causa, only to be thoroughly disrespected by Sanders' supporters this past year. I argued with those supporters here at DU until I was disgusted and sickened and just gave up talking to them.

[SheilaT]

123. You'll be pleased at this.

The results of jury:

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I vote to leave this. The thread is accurate the hatred spewed has escalated ever since the posters return from a well deserved time-out it is very noticeable.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hate? Pot, meet Kettle.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alert on this post is yet another example of the Hillary supporters unable to tolerate any criticism of her, or any praise of Bernie. As a response to the original post it is quite appropriate.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Is it a "blatant personal attack on a DUer.", or a careful observation of a posters motivation. I'll give you a hint...... Leave it alone.

[coyote]

17. Whoomp! There it is!

[MelissaB]

69. LMFAO! Of course the crew hid that post.

The truth, it hurts.

[Bobbie Jo]

239. Good

Petty sideshow posts like that should be hidden. Glad we're getting back to actual standards around here.

and all that...

[MelissaB]

70. ***********People need to see this**********

to know what that poster is about. Hateful post after hateful post and sometimes reveals her true colors.

[katsy]

76. I couldn't understand the venom

against SBS. Now I get it. Anti Semite.

Op going on ignore. Not worth reading any more.

How terribly sad.

[840high]

180. We got it some time ago. Not worth reading.

[Fozzledick]

77. Yes, we all know where the real racism in here is coming from.

And yet, it just keeps coming back over and over while those who object to it get hidden.

What a system!

[NorthCarolina]

183. I can't believe that DU'ers voted to hide that one. -nt-

[Contrary1]

188. Because it wasn't prefaced in a similar way to this:

Note to Jury: This is a verbatim copy of the title and an excerpt of a source we use all the time at DU. This is not the opinion of the op.

[nc4bo]

226. It is the "new, improved" DU. Sickening isn't it?nt

[progressoid]

256. Oopsie.

[Arazi]

28. Hmmm, and what DUer was outed as a raging anti-semite recently?

Thinking, thinking, thinking

[bravenak]

29. I notice some folks talk about nithing but me

I wish they had things to do. But they don't.

[Arazi]

33. Lol, like that isn't your goal?!

[bravenak]

41. I love watching folks

Get all hot and off topic and get personal. I come back later and boom. Somebody has hidden them. It hapoens all day, I have seen that post posted for five months at various sites. Think I'm going to cry bitter tears cause folks follow me around and obsessively post about my personality or run around the internet to find posts they save from all over the web to try to beat me up with? Hee hee! They just prove they are here to start personal drama, have nothing of their own to bring to the table.

My favorite are the cosigners who come out of the woodwork to get in on it. They don't know me either and have nothing of their own to say. They don't write ops. If they did, who would care? They start no discussions. They talk about posters they hate, not politics. Insignificant. And soon to be gone under the new rules. I have patience. I won't be seeing many of them after the new rules. It will be nice, though boring for them.

[Arazi]

47. Oh yes, it is obvious you love it. Very obvious

[bravenak]

52. They should stop giving me thing to enjoy

Take their atrention from me and oh how I will suffer in stoney silence

[Demsrule86]

108. Fuck those who don't get what you are trying to do.

I love your posts.

[bravenak]

148. Thank you

[Demsrule86]

176. you are welcome...

Keep up the good fight.

[BootinUp]

27. Bernie made a conscious choice to de-emphasize civil rights issues in this campaign

Its fair game for political commentary.

[bravenak]

30. Apparently we are just distractions

[BootinUp]

35. Bernie's theory of how to get white working class votes forgot

to factor you in.

[bravenak]

51. IT damn sure did and I NOTICED

[Hekate]

227. Women's issues are just distractions, too. Oy.

[bravenak]

228. That's over half the population that are just 'distractions'

[Demsrule86]

110. Woman's issues too like abortion and contraceptive rights. nt

[BootinUp]

111. Yes. Basically most social all issues. If a campaign does not

represent certain views or constituents, you have to believe it represents how that person would govern no?

[Demsrule86]

113. Absolutely

I am with her. I got my woman's card today...so cool!!!

[Eric J in MN]

152. Bernie Sanders said in his stump speech that women have a right to control their bodies

...and to get paid as much as men.

"I know that every man here will demand pay equity for women," he said in his stump speech.

[Eric J in MN]

151. No, Sanders spoke out in his stump speech against police brutality and Trump's racism. NT

NT

[TheCowsCameHome]

46. "Dear Jury: I didn't write it, but

I sure as hell agree with it, so I'll coyly post it and stir the pot again".



Who are you kidding..........

[bravenak]

54. Oh bother

And the millions of FBI posts just escaped your notice of pot stirring, I see

[840high]

185. ...!100++++

[eastwestdem]

55. Good 'ole Bernie. Always inclusive. nt

[hobbit709]

59. once again

[Baitball Blogger]

63. I have to agree with you.

[NurseJackie]

64. Nobody likes being an afterthought.

[bravenak]

65. We always are

[cwydro]

71. I wonder how many POC he has even known as friends.

Or known in any way.

[bravenak]

79. Not very many in my opinion

[angrychair]

75. Interesting "note to jury"

This is not the opinion of the op.

This is becoming a thing here I guess.

Posting articles that call Sanders a racist, rapist, sexist, commie or whatever else they want, then adding the convenient disclaimer "not my opinion but I'll post it anyway" bullshit.

Reminds me of the OP that got 11+ recommendations ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251941346 ), that alluded to some derogatory things about Sanders from a source that is a Neo-Nazi, Holocaust denial hate site named tomatoebubble.

Now, this disclaimer that says that the article is "not the opinion of the OP." I must ask: Why post it???

Why put together an OP, then post below that OP in support of the OP, then claim it isn't your opinion??

It's all good and well to say you do not support or advocate the words or deeds of an anti-Semetic hate website, then recommend an OP that uses that website and their words.
It is all good and well to say an article is not your opinion (I assume the 'flipping off' part) but post it as an Original Post anyway and post comments below it that seem to support your OP.
It's ridiculous word parsing and hair-splitting.
This OP should be deleted or locked.

[bravenak]

124. Why not find something better to do with your time?

[bravenak]

135. This op is in no way racist

[azurnoir]

80. still countin' those spoons, eh?

[bravenak]

97. They are mostly missing

[azurnoir]

100. so who stole them?

[bravenak]

102. A person with no honor

[azurnoir]

104. who in your mind would that be? Name him please

[bravenak]

141. You already know

[azurnoir]

163. NO really I don't so please who is it?

[bravenak]

165. The man who speaks of his honor so loudly

That he can't hear the world passing him by

[azurnoir]

167. again still confused

[tonedevil]

184. I don't believe...

it is you who is confused.

[azurnoir]

287. Thanks but I don't think anyone here is confused

[mcar]

82. K&R

[angrychair]

87. What is amusing

For all the grief you make about people telling black people what to feel and now you are taking queues about what POC think about Sanders from a middle aged white man (Tommy Christopher)...I person fired from two different writing gigs.

[Agnosticsherbet]

94. If the Democratic Party is gong to Champion human rights, it must first make sure everyone shares

the same human rights.
Sanders campaign strategy was not inclusive. It never addressed the issues of POC or women. It assumed that everyone was equal under the shoes of millionaires.
It cost him the election.

[bravenak]

105. Exactly

Tone deaf and out of touch with the majority of the party.

[Demsrule86]

114. It cost Sanders my support. nt

[Eric J in MN]

175. Bernie Sanders talked about women's issues and POC issues in his stump speech.

Bernie Sanders:

===
THIS CAMPAIGN IS LISTENING TO WOMEN.

WHAT WOMEN ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY ARE SAYING IS, THEY ARE SICK AND TIRED OF WORKING FOR $.79 ON THE DOLLAR. COMPARED TO MEN.

I KNOW EVERY MAN IN THIS HUGE ROOM -- HUGE ROOM -- WILL STAND WITH THE WOMEN IN THE FIGHT FOR PAY EQUITY.

BY THE WAY, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS, I WHEN EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY -- IF REPUBLICANS RUNNING AROUND TALKING ABOUT FAMILY VALUES. LET US BE VERY CLEAR WHAT THESE REPUBLICANS MEAN. WHAT THEY MEAN IS THAT NO WOMAN HERE TONIGHT, OR IN THIS STATE, SHOULD THE RIGHT TO CONTROL HER OWN BODY. I DISAGREE. WHAT THEY ALSO MEAN IS THAT OUR GAY BROTHERS AND SISTERS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE MARRIED. I DISAGREE.

...THIS CAMPAIGN IS LISTENING TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

THEY ARE ASKING, HOW DOES IT HAPPEN, IF THIS COUNTRY COULD SPEND TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS FIGHTING A WAR IN IRAQ WE NEVER SHOULD'VE GOTTEN INTO, HOW DOES IT HAPPEN THAT WE DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO REBUILD CRUMBLING COMMUNITIES LIKE FLINT, MICHIGAN?

HOW DOES IT HAPPEN THAT THERE ARE MINORITY COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY WHERE UNEMPLOYMENT IS SKYHIGH? WHERE EDUCATION IS FAILING THE KIDS? WHERE HEALTH CARE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND WERE TOO MANY OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN INSTEAD OF GETTING GREAT JOBS, ARE ENDING UP IN JAIL. TOGETHER, WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE NATIONAL PRIORITIES OF THIS COUNTRY.

TOGETHER, WE ARE GOING TO INVEST IN OUR COMMUNITIES. TOGETHER, THEY'RE GOING TO REBUILD OUR CRUMBLING INFRASTRUCTURE TO GREAT MILLIONS OF JOBS. FLINT, MICHIGAN, IS NOT THE ONLY CITY IN AMERICA WITH SERIOUS WATER PROBLEMS. ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY, CITIES AND TOWNS HAVE WATER PROBLEMS. ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY ROADS AND BRIDGES ARE FAILING. OUR RAIL SYSTEM IS WHAT BEHIND OTHER COUNTRIES. OUR AIRPORTS, LEVIES -- AND DAMS ONLY TO BE REPAIRED.
===

The transcript above is from his March 22, 2016 speech at the San Diego Convention Center. It's his stump speech, and so he said practically the same thing hundreds of times over the past year.

[Agnosticsherbet]

187. A speach does not engage a community

According to his campaign he wrote off LOC in the South.

He lost the women's vote and the black vote. He failed to craft a message to them.

[Demsrule86]

101. I like how he thinks he criminal justice thing is so important to all Black voters.

No doubt Justice for Black voters is important...but to hear Bernie, you would think all Black people in the 'ghetto' as he once put it are criminals. How about the huge Black unemployment numbers Bernie?

[bravenak]

103. All we care about is jail

Oh, that and welfare. We love that.

[Demsrule86]

116. I had forgotten he did that...damn he sounds almot GOP at times. nt

[bravenak]

118. Shhhh!!!

Don't tell him. He think we like it and will 'understand' his message soon and move in his direction.

[Demsrule86]

120. Ok...our secret then...hehe nt

[NurseJackie]

126. "... hanging out on street corners ..."

WP

And yet, in Democrats’ debate Thursday, “Wall Street” made it into the first sentence of Sanders’s answer about what he’d do for race relations that President Obama hasn’t.

“Yes,” he said unequivocally when asked for a second time whether he really thinks race relations would improve under him.

The reason why he’s so confident, you probably won’t be surprised to hear, lies in taxing billionaires “to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so that they’re not hanging out on street corners.”

The problem with being so singularly focused on one solution to many problems is that, to many supporters who might sympathize with the aims of Black Lives Matter, it feels like Sanders hasn’t fully understood the magnitude of their problem. Sanders’s “they-will-eventually-get-it” argument, as The Fix’s Janell Ross wrote, can even come across as patronizing.

[bravenak]

130. It was shocking to hear him say that

I remember when I heard, "I said BLACK FIFTY TIMES!!'. I really was confused and then outraged.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-black-community-forum-219232

“I said ‘black’ 50 times,” he said. “That’s the 51st time.”
But, Sanders said, the issues at hand are more about economics than race.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-black-community-forum-219232#ixzz4BshGlLKz
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[Vinca]

109. Bravenak - Bernie is a bad, bad man. Evil, nasty, mean, horrible, cranky, testy.

He hates men, he hates women, he hates blacks, he hates whites, he hates Christians, he hates Muslims, he hates Jews, he hates atheists, he hates rich people, he hates poor people, he's just a sorry excuse for a human being. Does that cover just about everything to satisfy your anti-Bernie memes for the day? Is there any chance you can give this a rest and support your candidate? (Psssst . . . in case you haven't heard, she won. Apparently this is not enough to satisfy you. I don't think anything will satisfy you.)

[Demsrule86]

117. why don't you follow your own advice...some of the posts on your side are awful.

[Vinca]

244. My "side" is the side of the country.

I've said I'm voting for Hillary. What do you want a human sacrifice or . . . more likely . . . a pile of gold?

[bravenak]

119. You should not accuse him of hating those groups. He most certainly does NOT HATE anybody

Except OLIGARCHS. Obviously.

[Vinca]

245. It's a shame you don't read what you post.

Strange hobby just posting random "stuff." I would think, for the good of the country, you would work on getting Hillary elected rather than continuing to divide.

[leftinportland]

127. Fuck this and fuck identity politics

It will get us nowhere simply divides us...lesson we need to all learn.

[bravenak]

133. The GOP HATES identity politics

[leftinportland]

142. That is where you are wrong...

The GOP loves to divide and conquer.

[bravenak]

143. So do others who discount southern democrats as 'conservative' or 'confederates'

It is not us blacks who created the divisions, we just live in the world they created, best we can.

[leftinportland]

157. Advocating for a 50 state strategy

is some how divisive?

[bravenak]

161. Saying the south does not count is divisive

[leftinportland]

171. You attribute this statement to who...

The only one I heard these words from was some armchair strategist on DU.

[bravenak]

173. Weaver

[leftinportland]

179. Context?

[bravenak]

192. He was discussing the fact that he says they did not compete in the South

[anigbrowl]

190. Shut up faggot

Oh you didn't like that? Well imagine you had people saying that sort of thing to you all the time as a matter of course. It's easy to decry identity politics when you're not regularly attacked for your identity, whether that's something you're born with or something you choose later in life.

Note to jury: I thought long and hard before choosing this title, but I feel it's necessary to confront the poster above with a momentary experience of what it is like to be a member of a disfavored minority, especially since s/he so rudely dismisses the right of others to form their own political constituencies.

[leftinportland]

203. You know shit about me, who I am, where I've been....

Yes, fuck identity politics, again and again...it gets us no where. I want social justice, you just go ahead and continue to be pandered to and see where it gets us.

[anigbrowl]

205. That's the whole point

A lot of people who members of disadvantaged minorities have to put up with all sorts of shit not because of anything they did or bad decisions they made, but because people make snap judgments about who they are. You don't like being on the receiving end of that as we've just seen, but you think people in that position should adopt your favorite policy rather the one that they judge best suits their interests. As a queer person I've actually seen a whole lot of progress on these issues over the last couple of decades, as well as many challenges and setbacks.

[leftinportland]

243. No that was not the point...

You assumed, knowing nothing about me, that I have not had to put up with all sort of shit, you don't know what I've been at the receiving end of. You made the snap judgement not I.

Much progress has been made but I am tired of individualizing our struggles and doing such things as maligning politicians when they don't give proper billing to our various constituencies...United we stand, divided we fall.

[Sunsky]

129. He flipped us off way before this speech

especially us southern blacks. I don't care what he did many moons ago, I care about his actions now.

[bravenak]

134. Yep

I really just want him to concede so it can be over and done

[panader0]

136. Abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous.

Carry on.

[bravenak]

140. I thought it was very ridiculous that we are just a throw away line in a speech

Not fair. We matter just as much as everybody else

[panader0]

144. Yeah, Bernie never cared about civil rights, he never protested,

he never got arrested, he never marched, he never voted for civil rights.
Brave, I know you can't really believe this. Why do you do it?

[bravenak]

146. Why do you keep saying he never cared!

He cared fifty years ago when my mom was a kid. We just have not seen him around much since!!! Not our fault he did not stay in touch. I wrote a wonderful essay about love that I think applies here to this situation. I should post it sometime.

It takes trust and trust is built over time and worked at constantly. Dissapoear for a long time and one loses what connected them to others. We don't know him and the constant cries that we somehow owe him something for his civil rights work from the sixties, when we ourselves never actually went anywhere, and have been working on the front lines for the fifty years in between, and have been there all along is another disconnect.

We respect his past work but it take constant work to be considered a leader in civil rights for black americans.

[Eric J in MN]

177. In his stump speech this year, Bernie Sanders talked about African-American issues.

Bernie Sanders:
===
THIS CAMPAIGN IS LISTENING TO OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

THEY ARE ASKING, HOW DOES IT HAPPEN, IF THIS COUNTRY COULD SPEND TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS FIGHTING A WAR IN IRAQ WE NEVER SHOULD'VE GOTTEN INTO, HOW DOES IT HAPPEN THAT WE DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO REBUILD CRUMBLING COMMUNITIES LIKE FLINT, MICHIGAN?

HOW DOES IT HAPPEN THAT THERE ARE MINORITY COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY WHERE UNEMPLOYMENT IS SKYHIGH? WHERE EDUCATION IS FAILING THE KIDS? WHERE HEALTH CARE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND WERE TOO MANY OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN INSTEAD OF GETTING GREAT JOBS, ARE ENDING UP IN JAIL. TOGETHER, WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE NATIONAL PRIORITIES OF THIS COUNTRY.

TOGETHER, WE ARE GOING TO INVEST IN OUR COMMUNITIES. TOGETHER, THEY'RE GOING TO REBUILD OUR CRUMBLING INFRASTRUCTURE TO GREAT MILLIONS OF JOBS. FLINT, MICHIGAN, IS NOT THE ONLY CITY IN AMERICA WITH SERIOUS WATER PROBLEMS. ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY, CITIES AND TOWNS HAVE WATER PROBLEMS. ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY ROADS AND BRIDGES ARE FAILING. OUR RAIL SYSTEM IS WHAT BEHIND OTHER COUNTRIES. OUR AIRPORTS, LEVIES -- AND DAMS ONLY TO BE REPAIRED.
===

In the time between Sanders being a college student protesting for civil rights and his being a presidential candidate, his decades in Congress included a 100% rating from the NAACP for his votes.

[bravenak]

195. A speech and a rating is not a substitute for a connection with the community

[Marrah_G]

145. Finally just going to put you on ignore

I hate what the primaries do to DUers.

[bravenak]

147. Please hurry

[B Calm]

150. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Admini

Trashing divisive race baiting thread!

[bravenak]

154. Why not send it to the jury?

[betsuni]

155. K&R heh

[Eric J in MN]

158. Bernie Sanders talked about fighting racism in his speech last night.

===
This campaign is about defeating Donald Trump, the Republican candidate for president. After centuries of racism, sexism and discrimination of all forms in our country we do not need a major party candidate who makes bigotry the cornerstone of his campaign. We cannot have a president who insults Mexicans and Latinos, Muslims, women and African-Americans.
===

[bravenak]

162. Barely

Most time was spent on his pet issues and grievances.

[randome]

168. Well, at least he finally flipped SOMETHING.

[bravenak]

174. I know right

[LexVegas]

182. He's been doing that the whole primary. nt

[bravenak]

194. Yep

[riderinthestorm]

191. Narcissists gotta narcissist. Maybe you'll get over 300 on this one. nt

[Gothmog]

196. Sanders claim that voters in the south do not count irked me

[bravenak]

197. Me too

A lot of people felt personally insulted. Also the african american population is in great part, Southern. Both sides of my family came from that 'deep south' he talked about. Many many many still living there today.

[alittlelark]

199. What goes around comes around...Karma is a bitch...

Ya know. You get back what you put out there... Not a good outcome for you.

[bravenak]

201. Please don't think about me in a personal manner

Please

[alittlelark]

212. You throw yourself out there begging for attention.

You do not care whether it is positive or negative attention - but it seems you prefer the latter. I was just giving you what you ask for and crave over and over and over with these inflammatory posts....

******ATTENTION********

[bravenak]

215. That's nice

[alittlelark]

218. That's reality - and I think some part of you knows it.

Get off the 'hamster wheel' of circular logic and join those of us that are looking for positive constructive change.

It could only help, not hurt.

[bravenak]

220. Oh great. Umm hmm

[alittlelark]

225. ............

[fleabiscuit]

206. He is the Dragonslayer

The dragon that created mayhem and inequality in the community, and to restore order from the 1-percent the hero has to vanquish it. He must overcome the rigged evil system and the evil henchmen. The myth that is believed more than the truth and the evidence in front of eyes. You're battling the myth.

[Night Watchman]

207. Don't back down, bravenak!

Rec

[bravenak]

208. .

[Cha]

211. Thank you for posting this, brave.

[bravenak]

231. Thanks for coming to see me.

This place can be brutal, nice to see positive people.

[Cha]

240. My pleasure.. Monday Monday..

[bravenak]

242. Can't wait!

[akbacchus_BC]

213. Really, Bernie cares about all people of colour. Is something wrong with you?

You are so blinded that you need to play this crap on here!

[bravenak]

216. Nobody said he did not care

[Cha]

233. Exactly.

[Go Vols]

221. People don't respond to constant ridicule well

But you are quite the provocateur.

I was when I was younger,lots of fights irl.

Putting a litter sugar on my message seems to work better these days.

[bravenak]

223. That's nice

[Go Vols]

229. Quite

ty

[Cha]

234. yeah, but that's all BS did when ranting about Hillary and our Democratic Party.. we

sure the hell did not respond well to that.

[bravenak]

235. Only people like us need to say it with sugar and a smile

We're just Ladies. He can yell but we must not seem 'angry'.

[Cha]

237. Right.. no "shouting"...

[Go Vols]

238. +1 for effort

[cui bono]

222. .

.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

232. Not a word about Hillary's support for private prisons.

Not a word about Hillary's support for predatory for-profit schools.

Not a word about Hillary talking down to BLM protestors when they dare interrupted her speech to rich old white people.


I'll never forget this:



You apparently already have.

Or you haven't paid attention.





Or you're just fishing for attention.

[bravenak]

236. So stop giving me attention then

[JCanete]

257. seriously, if you didn't want the attention from Bernie supporters, you wouldn't be posting

inflammatory shit in the primaries section. You could circle jerk in the Hillary forum just fine. Don't be surprised or think it strange that people don't let your bullshit stand unchallenged, when it gets so many empty accolades from fellow Hillary supporters.

[bravenak]

260. This is no more inflammatory than the 'hillary going to jail' threads.

Real shit. You guys are so hypersensitive if someone even has the slightest criticism of Bernie, but have no problem ripping Hillary a new one and don't give one damn if we do not appreciate it. One side does not own all rights to criticise while we hav to stfu. Bernie did terribly with my group and this is why. We know he's not perfect but we are told we cannot complain about anything he ever says or does or we deserve to ne treated like crap.

Now, if you want thing to calm down? Go tell yr side to stop with the 'hillary is corrupt, own by the banjs, wall street shill, kills brown children, fbi is going to charge her, the election was stolen, etc.'. Otherwise the complaint are shallow and self serving. We are not going to watch her be torn down and stay silent on our issues with him just because you guys are feeling sorry for yourselves.

[MrWendel]

284. +1000

[progressoid]

258. " fishing for attention"

ding ding ding.

[JonLeibowitz]

241. Post #15 is ***fascinating***

[B Calm]

248. +1 the truth is hidden!

[Surya Gayatri]

247. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting. So spot on.

[Armstead]

251. You and the OP are too annoying and random to Alert on

Were I on a jury, I'd vote to leave it because you're not denying TOS

But you really are an insulting piece of work. Just because he did not aim his entire speech to POC issues, he's flipping them off? Really.

[Stellar]

259. If it's really true, I am shocked. I voted for him.

[bravenak]

263. Of course it's true

It's been this way the entire time. We are just a few throwaway lines and now that he lost DC he could skip all that stuff he tossed in after Black Lives Matter and get back to what he really thinks about. All his racial justice stuff was lifted from Project Zero, not verbatim but definately damn near the same thing. It was never his thing since the SJWs and the EJWs split in the seventies because his side wanted to focus on economics and the black civil rights movement wanted to focus on racism. It is what it is. Nothing changed.

[Stellar]

270. You're probably right, but I felt nothing for Clinton either.

[bravenak]

271. To Be honest I have no love for any politician

[Stellar]

285. hear, hear! nt

[coyote]

267. KnR for POST #15...let the truth set you free.

[Number23]

286. "Yeah, black voters had Bernie all wrong, didn’t they?" BAM!! BOOOOMM!!

Black folks -- especially black women -- have the most pristine, well maintained, and impeccably attuned bullshit detectors.

And they went off like firecrackers whenever we saw not only Sanders himself but more precisely, those who were most drawn to him. K&R

[FrenchieCat]

290. Cause gifting us with Cornell West

For Black outreach is like trump naming Clarence Thomas for his Black outreach....
So the slap in our faces was hard to ignore....but yet, it happened....to this day!

[Number23]

291. Tell it. And the fact that we were apparently all supposed to pretend that the slap in the face

was in fact the gentle caress of the wind or something other than what it was made it all even more amazing.

You can't pee on black folks' legs and tell us its raining. We got way too much sense for that.

[bravenak]

292. It was unbelievable how tone deaf one campaign could be.

[uponit7771]

293. +1, one of the reasons black women have a very low suicide rate is because of the BS detector and

... a sense of need.

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2014/08/why-black-women-dont-commit-suicide