protocol

[Bucky]

How should she be addressed?

23 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Madame President
	6 (26%)
	Madam President
	11 (48%)
	Mrs. President
	2 (9%)
	Ms. President
	4 (17%)
	4 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Bucky]

1. For the record, "Ms. President" is the best answer

It's status neutral and has an American etymology.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. I agree. It is the proper equivalent to "Mr. President"

I suspect it will end uo being "madam President", though, similar to the way she has been "Madam Secretary"

[DURHAM D]

10. Agree. Should be an option. nt

[zenabby]

16. I like Madame President ...

but by just saying that we need to use a special title such as "madame" shows how Ms. is not as respectable or as adequate as Mr.

[Bucky]

22. the same reason why we say "Sir President" instead of "Mister President"

it just sounds so... so... equal to the common people

[drray23]

2. i chose madame president

because the fact Hillary Clinton is married is besides the point. She will be the president not just Bill Clinton's wife.
Why do I think it matters ? Because many rwingers were pushing the narrative that the only reason Hillary is sucessful is because she is married to Bill.

[Bucky]

3. but Madame is French. The English word is Madam

Not that I'm an English-firster, but surely we can agree that a honorific that changes with marital status is sexist.

The advantage of Ms. is that it doesn't imply marriage changes a woman's status as a person.

[drray23]

5. sure madam will work.

Full disclosure, I was born in France.. Yes, I know what the usage is for Ms but since its often pronounced miss it is ambiguous sometimes. I like Madam as in Madam Secretary. It just seems to carry more weight.
But yes we both agree it should not be a term referring to her marital status.

[forest444]

4. I can just hear some Faux News bleachjob complain:

"Madame President!? Like - this isn't France!"

[drray23]

6. well maybe its a good idea then.

After all we need to give them something to be outraged about.. . to keep us entertained.

[forest444]

11. Well said.

Watching Ailes' bimbos hyperventilate will be half the fun - at least!

[Warren DeMontague]

7. How about we ask her, after the inauguration?

Since she's first, she should have some say in establishing the proper precedent.

[Native]

9. I hope her campaign settles on whatever will piss the right off most!

[MineralMan]

12. The Repubs think it will be Your Majesty.

Perhaps a few other discontented folks, too.

[okasha]

13. The only real difference

between madame and madam in English is the spelling. I prefer these two because the are generally attached to a woman of authority.

[Bucky]

23. John Adams and George Washington had this same argument.

Adams thought the honorific "Mr. President" was too common. He said it sounded like the chief executive was only the president of a fire company or a cricket club. He suggested the new president be addressed as "His highness, the President of the United States of America, and Protector of the Rights of the Same."

Washington, who relied on his own merit and personal dignity, shot down Adams's proposal. He said he should be called only "Mister President" in a move toward "republican simplicity." The president, he believed, would have respect by behaving in a way that commanded respect, without the fetters and pomp of elevation above the status of equal citizen.

I'm with George on this one. Ms President will receive the respect she warrants by leading us wisely. We don't need Latin American style sashes and festoons to dignify the office. Getting the majority of the Electoral College and the votes of her fellow citizens will embue her all the dignity she needs.

Harry Truman considered leaving the White House to become a private citizen to be a promotion. I'm with Harry too.

[Adrahil]

14. They'll use Madam.

They already used Madam Speaker when Pelosi was Speaker.

[Orangepeel]

18. And Madam Secretary...

[Adrahil]

19. +1

[Bucky]

20. Which is silly. We don't say "Sir Speaker" or "Sir President". We use the common honorific, "Mister"

Why employ the formal honorific for a female office holder?

Sir = Madam
Mr. = Ms.

[okasha]

27. The counterpart of "Sir' is "Lady," not Madam.

We do, however, use "Sir," as a direct address for the President. Staff will similarly address Hillary as "Ma'am," which is just the short form of "Madam," and in the US can be used to address any adult woman, from a bag lady to the Queen of England. Pretty egalitarian.

[Bucky]

28. I guess I see your point, sir. Or, if you're a madam, I guess I see your point, lady.

The counterpoint of Madam (or ma'am) is "Sir". The counter point of Lady is "Gentleman". You don't get to reinvent the English language.

The counterpoint of Mr is Miss if you're single, Mrs if you're married, or Ms. if you choose not to be defined by your marital status. That is well established in the English language ever since Gloria Steinem reinvented it.

[okasha]

29. Uh, no.

If you use "Sir, as in "Sir President," you are addressing him, perhaps unwittingly, as a knight or baronet. "Sir Richard," "Lady Anne."

The precise counterpart of "gentleman" is "gentlewoman.". Apparently one extra syllable is too much for American idiom.

And anyone can add new usages to the English language. Neologisms occur almost daily.

[Bucky]

30. except the counterpart to Lady is also "Lord"

There's a difference between an honorific and a title, which you seem to be conflating here.

You're still not addressing the main point. The equivalent of Mister <Title> is Ms. <Title>
.
Obviously common usage is going to trump linguistic logic, and so the unthinking masses will embrace Madam President. But I still assert that the implication that a woman needs a more elevated sounding formal address than a man (ie, Madam Prez instead of the logical equivalent Ms Prez) is implicitly sexist. It is the high heeled shoes of protocol.

[aikoaiko]

15. Is there supposed to be a period after Ms?

[tblue37]

17. American usage = period; British usage = no period. nt

[Bucky]

21. Like Harry S. Truman

The S didn't stand for anything, but he used a period behind it most of the time anyway.

[LanternWaste]

24. 'Madam President' for me until/unless both Robert's Rules of Orders and AP Style Book update it.

'Madam President' for me until/unless both Robert's Rules of Orders and AP Style Book update it.

[Motown_Johnny]

25. However she wants.

I say it is her call.

[name not needed]

26. Our Lord and Savior, Praise Be Unto Her.