2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI will not be gracious in victory over the FBI investigation.
Those who spread that smear with such zeal and such vitriol should be ashamed of themselves. They never had anything to go on except rumors from right-wing news sources and were proven decisively wrong. I hope this hurts for them.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)The FBI director came out and said Hillary and her team were careless in their handling of classified materials. That isn't a victory, it's a confirmation. The fact that there are no consequences for her, when there most certainly would be for anyone else, only highlights a problem that we already knew existed.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)Sloppy record keeping practices are pretty damn common.
brooklynboy49
(287 posts)"No reasonable prosecutor would bring charges" doesn't mean no reasonable prosecutor would find that no crimes were committed, it means no reasonable prosecutor, knowing that guilt must be established beyond a reasonable doubt, would bring charges with the evidence he or she had to meet that burden of proof.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)If the case is so weak that they don't think they could obtain a conviction in court, there's not much there. It's a flimsy thing you're clinging on to, and I have serious questions about why you want to cling to it.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)and came up empty? That was a pretty big indicator that NO, there most certainly would NOT be consequences "for anyone else" because there never has been.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)emulatorloo
(45,646 posts)to spin the fact there will be no indictment as a 'negative.'
Fuck all the bullshit armchair lawyers.
Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(100,400 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(100,400 posts)Thank you in advance.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...If not, my mistake.
DemocratSinceBirth
(100,400 posts)uponit7771
(92,126 posts)Dem2
(8,178 posts)There are other sites you can go to if you want to help Republicans
Gothmog
(156,305 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)what the thread condemns. For those who ignored all evidence to hope for an indictment, this thread is their indictment.
"No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." -- FBI Director Comey, who also stated that over a year's intensive investigation found no willful or intentional misconduct, no indications of disloyalty to the United States, no efforts to obstruct justice.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...why would I want to see our candidate indicted? That isn't good for anyone!
What I don't like is seeing statements where wrongs are clearly outlined without consequences. What is the use of having rules in place regarding the handing of classified materials if the mishandling of classified materials doesn't matter?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Maybe send her a card to let her know?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesnt always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one youre already in.[/center][/font][hr]
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...and generally there were consequences for those actions. Also, none of them came anywhere close to mishandling classified material.
randome
(34,845 posts)Let Trump bloviate about it all he wants. We have better things to do.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesnt always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one youre already in.[/center][/font][hr]
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)They looked at everything and found her innocent of every possible charge.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesnt always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one youre already in.[/center][/font][hr]
larkrake
(1,674 posts)Arneoker
(375 posts)I work for the government myself, and I would acknowledge that Hillary made mistakes on this. So did a lot of people at State. Did you catch where Comey spoke about the dysfunctional culture at State where it came to handling classified material? That doesn't excuse Hillary, or many others, but it should add some perspective.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)Cordy
(82 posts)Comey did not say she proven negligent.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)whitewater?
in what court of law did he PROVE this malfeasance?
oh, wait a minute.......
thanks for playing
learn to play better next time
brooklynboy49
(287 posts)nt
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I have. It happens. Generally speaking, if the mishandling was not intentional, and did not result in material falling into the wrong hands, the concern was more about fixing the problem than punishing someone. There is, after all, a difference between a mistake and a crime.
3catwoman3
(25,859 posts)If no harm was caused, what is there to pursue?
I vaguely remember something from a nursing and the law course about misfeasance - doing something badly, but no harm arising, therefore nothing actionable.
calimary
(84,825 posts)I think we all know. Hillary hatred is running so ridiculously, bewilderingly high these days that all the haters want at this point is to see her almost literally sent to Death Row. I've never seen such blindingly virulent hatred in all my years. Good Grief how threatened they are by her!
It does make me wonder, though, were these emails that were considered sensitive or top secret, were they clearly marked as such? Back then? It's awfully easy to say "she shoulda known." Well, with everything else she had on her plate, I imagine she relied on staff to lay things out clearly for her, as any executive would, and has, so she could make quick responses and decisions and reactions. Was she served in a sloppy manner? Kinda looks like it. Did she have time to micromanage every detail? In a job like Secretary of State, I'd guess probably not. Particularly since she was busy with her own top priority, which was trying to rehabilitate America's image with multiple countries and even allies in whose eyes we failed, and lost our moral high ground thanks to the WAR CRIMINALS bush & cheney and their marauding, exploitive, opportunistic Torture-on-Parade regime. They violated the Geneva Conventions forcryingoutloud! And here we are, lo these many years later, quibbling about some fucking emails while bush/cheney walk free 'n' clear, unindicted, uninvestigated, unaccountable.
treestar
(82,383 posts)this whole "investigation" thing. Did the FBI look into it?
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Bless their concerned hearts.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Yes, not criminal - no intent.
And I guess that's all the FBI does - criminal investigations
But he left the door open for so many other lesser charges - and has a report to back up those lesser charges.
It will be up to someone else (guess who?) to initiate that.
F**k! Just when you hoped the runway would be cleared of debris.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)No basis for crminal charges. Pretty darned clear.
MADem
(135,425 posts)A rightwing nutjob hater might, but a reasonable prosecutor? "Comey" don't play that, now, does he?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The people who want to be UNREASONABLE will continue to whine and cry about this matter.
Director Comey has quite thoughtfully characterized those people already, so we don't have to!
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Doesn't matter til it matters.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)If not that one, how about Comey's finding: "NO WILLFUL OR INTENTIONAL MISCONDUCT?" or "NO INDICATIONS OF DISLOYALTY TO THE UNITED STATES?"
Of course these do matter, tremendously, to those who've been wet-dreaming about destroying this nice woman, wife, friend, mother, grandmother, presidential candidate. That Hillary is PROVEN innocent is turning out to be a tremendous disappointment to many, right wing nutjob haters and unfortunately others, for whom, frankly, that little detail never did matter.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences, Comey said. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.
That's the door that was left open, and its almost as if he taunting 'someone' to follow-up.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and while there Hillary was the boss, a presidential appointee, not one of the many thousands of employees this was meant for. I listened to every word, but if you want to dig around for another fingerling potato go to it.
Comey regarding carelessness in the State Department: "No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." And the huge BIGGIEs, the three aircraft carrier-size potatoes: "No willful or intentional misconduct, no indications of disloyalty to the United States, no efforts to obstruct justice."
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)I know what the difference is. You can all move on from 'indictment' now.
Response to floppyboo (Reply #114)
AgadorSparticus This message was self-deleted by its author.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)the e-mails were always nothing to be concerned about, but the findings confirmed negligence, not innocense. she skated and it is time to put it to bed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)There is the issue of security clearances, which my gut says the DOJ will be fine with. It's all the other noise.
Back to listening to Obama. He's knockin it out of the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maru Kitteh
(29,312 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)special rights and privileges that place them above the law. It takes a certain level of money, connections, and power to get to the point where "I didn't mean to do it" carries weight with the federal justice system.
brush
(58,304 posts)And I would bet that many of the ones praying for a Clinton indictment are big supporters of Snowden.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Huh? Too much coffee and information for my fly brain.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)When I read that stuff out there about her from Snowden supporters, it just reeks of the idea that they wouldn't even care if she were innocent of something. They'd want to send her to jail anyway if it helps their candidate. It's so despicable.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and hypocritical see the expectations of others for honesty as opportunity to exploit for attacks, and, as with this current issue, occasionally as an imaginary bunkered position to take over, use, and abandon.
sheshe2
(88,600 posts)You are correct.
Gothmog
(156,305 posts)How are you doing my friend?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)so that starting back in August I will refreshed and ready to grind ... We have a Senator to replace and in my Township a team of 4 (out of seven) incumbent Council members to re-elect!
Gothmog
(156,305 posts)I am a Clinton delegate to the National Convention. It is an once in a lifetime chance and there may be some real floor fights.
obamanut2012
(27,961 posts)JustAnotherGen
(33,960 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Well, well, well--there it is!! Worth repeating, several times, too:
"No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." -- FBI Director Comey
"No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." -- FBI Director Comey
"No reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." -- FBI Director Comey
DCBob
(24,689 posts)If the FBI recommended legal action that would have been a huge unfair injustice to a dedicated public servant.
She didnt follow all the rules and regs precisely but she is no criminal... far from it.. very far from it.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)he left the door wide open for GOP to step through and you know they will
DCBob
(24,689 posts)No crime.. no criminal.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)that does not mean she is innocent of gross negligence as he clearly accuses her of. Her obsession for secrecy got her into this trouble, it is self destruction and no one else's fault. As Pres, she can classify what she wishes and avoid daylight, but trust is really hard to reclaim.
Hillary's followers are celebrating that she is innocent, when the findings state she is not. The charges were negligence, not intent to share data with enemies. The foundation e-mails were not part of this investigation, and will not be brought forth for many months, a separate investigation with too many players to cover up. Luckily the Clintons have allies in high places and will never see a jail cell, but the people will know just how corrupt politics are and those they adored are just as corrupt as the next one. Salaries in DC are low, they do not seek office to serve the people, clearly, but go to wheel and deal under the table for millions.
The public sees the corruption in DC so they praise the very few innocent politicians who stay out of the pool. Those who Adore any candidate and assume any are clean and cares are just fooling themselves. The few clean and caring politicians are trampled daily, and are hated by the few people who want to be blind, for no reason at all. These good politicians say "We", not "Me", and they care about cleaning the toilet that is DC.You can count them on two hands.
Hillary's opponent is not a politician, so he draws those who are sick of DC, and that number is vast, and unfortunately he can use shades of gray to attack Hillary. He is a buffoon and spontaneous liar, he spouts absurdities and is not liked either. His followers do not believe his flip flops, they are just sick of the corruption in DC so will vote for the non-politician and hope Congress will neuter him. It is a revolution of another breed than Bernie's, but a social uproar nevertheless.
It is a time for a revolution, we cannot go on for the next four years of the same old crap. I prefer Bernie's organized plan over Trumps violent followers just venting. I do not see a plan with Hillary for productive changes to save our country, especially with this critical statement from Comey and the GOP just waiting to launch so many investigations. It will be another 4 yrs of gridlock while bridges fall down
DCBob
(24,689 posts)She is guilty of simply being a bit too controlling and not following all the rules and regs perfectly. It is my understanding the "mishandling" of classified information is quite common among government officials and staff. Often is out of necessity to simply get the job done. She is a long-time dedicated public servant who would never intentionally do anything to risk this country's security.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Otherwise its just a mistake.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)secrecy was the intent, not a crime, but suspect. Sharing data with the enemy is a crime which she did not intend, clearly.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)larkrake
(1,674 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)larkrake
(1,674 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)That wasnt the intent.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)perhaps born of being a target forever, but I believe where there is smoke there is fire, especially after 40 yrs of smoke
Cordy
(82 posts)creeksneakers2
(7,613 posts)Comey is untouchable. He made a decision based on the facts, which were extensively investigated.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Months we could have focused on terrorists or some real crime???
lapucelle
(19,641 posts)"the fact that there are no consequences for her, when there most certainly would be for anyone else..."
That's not a fact. You made that up.
I'm more concerned with why the FBI director felt entitled to engage in partisan speculation concerning a presidential candidate. That was a clear breach in ethics. Comey should step down.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...here it is in Comey's statement:
"To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now."
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)There are many who were hoping upon hope that there would be an indictment, and the disappointment is so overwhelming, that they can't bring themselves to see it for what it is.
A victory.
obamanut2012
(27,961 posts)No one else would have smeared like this but Hillary. No one else who was INNOCENT would have been subjected to that presser.
underpants
(187,732 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Thanks for asking.
underpants
(187,732 posts)It's happened to me before too
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)It certainly doesn't sound that way.
pnwmom
(109,651 posts)comments to his announcement of his decision that the facts did not support a "reasonable prosecutor" pressing charges.
This was no confirmation of anything except that she never broke any law. But the Rethugs were determined to crucify her while ignoring the fact that during the immediately preceding administration, 22 million White House emails held on the RNC server were purposefully deleted and withheld from the investigation about the US attorneys scandal.
pnwmom
(109,651 posts)All he could do was say that in his opinion certain conversations were too sensitive to be handled in email.
But his personal opinion didn't matter, as he clearly understands. The law did.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Now,can we get back to the people issues within this campaign.
Remember,Comey was the lead investigator for Ken Starr,and we know how that Witch Hunt ended.
Hekate
(95,577 posts)Or at least repeat it often.
Thanks for the reminder.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)there are a few of us here that are trying to get our Party back to the people issues.
BTW,Cable News are in full test various Frank Luntz focus group themes today. Appears the so called independent media are going to make a run at dumping Trump.
The other theme is Hillary is guilty of something,and we don't know what it is. Next one is Polls show less honest than Trump. The latter is in major play in our Vegas market. Every TV station runs this as the lead in their News updates.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)him rushing to AG Ashcroft's ICU bed to keep him from being pressured into reauthorizing W's illegal surveillance program.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)Dem2
(8,178 posts)I can't even call these people Democrats at this point
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Boojah!
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Anybody participating was probably not a real democrat anyway.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)morons. This is the final nail in the coffin of all the 10 percent of Sanders supporters were holding out for (when the other 10 percent went Trump). They will now find something new to hold out for.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)in game of life.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Alfresco
(1,698 posts)HamiltonSwan
(38 posts)The entire site is full of unbalanced people who don't know a damn thing about politics, or civics and how our elections work for that matter.
Crackpots and cranks every one of them.
okasha
(11,573 posts)PJMcK
(23,194 posts)Maru Kitteh
(29,312 posts)Jackass Delusionals website is full of 100% certifiable, low-information, low-capacity morons.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)And the instant about face after the fact.
Amazing.
obamanut2012
(27,961 posts)joshcryer
(62,511 posts)obamanut2012
(27,961 posts)PJMcK
(23,194 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)so far around the bend they run into each other from opposite directions
obamanut2012
(27,961 posts)larkrake
(1,674 posts)obamanut2012
(27,961 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)They are either completely delusional on how clearances, or the federal government operates or they are completely detached from reality. Either way I'm happy they found somewhere new to spew all if their nonsense & hate.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Well I hope they hold their collective breaths.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Here is a newsflash for them, the Greens already have their Presidential nominee and it's not Bernie.
Squinch
(53,459 posts)DemonGoddess
(5,125 posts)gademocrat7
(11,249 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)"Clinton Email Investigation and Timeline" That would be over the top.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)In spite of what the haters and concern trolls think, it's OVAH!
riversedge
(73,708 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)fall for RW propaganda against one of our own without considering the facts and without considering how the RW have hunted and hounded President Bill Clinton for eight-plus years? How can they so easily fall for RW-gossip and propaganda that attacks any Democrat?
I always say to this...if you don't stand for anything (taking a stand on a political Party, for example), you'll fall for everything.
riversedge
(73,708 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Glad there was no indictment, but this whole situation was not a good look for Ms. Clinton, imo.
She done f-ed up. Big time.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)SidDithers
(44,273 posts)fortunately, most of the most zealous smearers have decamped for viler pastures.
Fuck 'em.
Sid
Vinca
(51,360 posts)Reckless and careless are not attributes usually considered positive in a presidential candidate and I'm sure the right will be using Comey's words in their advertising.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)No one cares anymore. The story won't even be mentioned by the middle of next week.
Vinca
(51,360 posts)emulatorloo
(45,646 posts)He's a liar and a birther.
Of course he will campaign on this. So what?
(Not to mention he has plenty of lawsuits against him as we speak)
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)campaign pitch?
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Vinca
(51,360 posts)Comey says no intent so no indictment. I'm only warning that Trump is going to make a whole lot of hay over this. At this point I want Hillary to win the damn election because Trump is fucking crazy.
Cordy
(82 posts)In the Comey report the word reckless and negligent are not there, it was never said of Hillary. Kind of like when the right said her server was "unsecure." It was secure, and unsecure was a media hype word. During her tenor the SD was hacked twice, while her system was never breached.
Save those terms for Trump, like untrustworthy.
stonecutter357
(12,788 posts)AwareOne
(404 posts)Why start now
Zynx
(21,328 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)attention beyond a quick "point/laugh." Trump and his minions are the ones who have been flogging this hare-brained hope, which we KNEW was not an issue because the FBI long, LONG ago said Clinton was not a target of their investigation.
Why these Trumpeteers--and Trump, himself--continued to ignore this rather key fact has everything to do with trying to win while fomenting "Hillary Hatred." It wasn't ever going to work, anyone with half a toe in the pool of reality knew this months ago, and they're just going to have to deal with their disappointment in any way they can manage:
Poor Donald and his Orangemen...he must be SO disappointed!
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)I couldn't help but peer over at a certain jaded, pathetic, and rabid hate site (and no, I'm not talking about the Freepers) and saw a meltdown of massive proportions. I don't think I've seen people this freaking out. I wish I could say it wasn't fun to watch but it kinda was.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Can't say I didn't LMAO the whole time because many of them are very vile people and deserve to hurt right now.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Guided by a link in a post above. And I don't think I ever seen such a large collection of "revolutionary" trash gathered on a single site at the same time. But then again......
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)There's as much vitriol against our presumptive candidate on that website as there is on any right wing news source, blog, or hate site.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Better luck with your post.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Squinch
(53,459 posts)joshcryer
(62,511 posts)I cannot in good conscious consider those people anything but trolls if they come come back to DU. And to think some of them are HOSTS here.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)They might as well link Stormfront.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)It provided more than a year of feeding frenzy and conspiracy fodder.
There was nothing to it.
R B Garr
(17,454 posts)alone tells you what sort of bullshit was underfoot. It was obvious this whole fake "scandal" was just more of the same.
I won't even bother to try and pretend this was ever about "issues". I don't care either how upset people are that another phony "scandal" blew up in their faces. I'll just smirk quietly at all the 'splodey heads.
Gothmog
(156,305 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)Maru Kitteh
(29,312 posts)Screw the Jackass Delusionals.
Screw FOX noise.
Screw Trump & Co.
They're all one and the same, and they can all go to hell.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)anymore about those damned emails.
Let's talk issues.
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)It's not a matter of being gracious...
It's a matter of being "not" totally clueless. Okay, so a lot of folks didn't know a RW smear when they saw one. Hopefully, they were very, very young folks.
Beacool
(30,335 posts)RW heads are exploding everywhere. Those on the Left who were counting on an indictment, like nut job H.A. Goodman, are also having a bad day.
Cha
(306,162 posts)larkrake
(1,674 posts)not fool yourself. Nothing said was flattering or a cause for relief, in fact Comey was a bit brutal.
DemocratSinceBirth
(100,400 posts)What part of that don't you understand?
Folks like the seminal poster and myself were right and our nemeses were wrong.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I don't like many things about her, but I agreed with Bernie that the email stuff was a distraction.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Take five deep breathes and then watch it as if they were talking about someone that you had no vested interest it. The speech was funnel shaped in that a lot of important information at the top was spelled out and as he went on, at the bottom of the speech where few words remained ....you thought you heard that she was innocent. Listen again because that is not what was said.
I think we could look at it as a victory for her in that it looks like she has avoided prosecution. She would have liked to hear, 'no crimes committed' but unfortunately she did not.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)The rest of it is an area that doesn't terribly interest most people.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Maru Kitteh
(29,312 posts)Duh.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)indictment? If so, I really don't have much to say to you other than "Ha! Ha!"
Zynx
(21,328 posts)They have a lot to apologize for and I will not be magnanimous toward them.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Blue_Tires
(57,259 posts)Goodman , Greenwald, Sirota and the rest of the Emoprog scribes can shove it straight up their assholes with the rest of the garbage...
NYC Liberal
(20,359 posts)Hillary Clinton, and Democrats, are celebrating the end of yet another partisan anti-Clinton witch hunt.