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Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:22 PM

Hillary should beat Trump like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64. Goldwater was a Republican outsider

distrusted by many in his own party, and Johnson was a stay-the-course Democratic establishment candidate trying to build on the legacy of the previous Democratic President.

The good news is Johnson won handily (and so should Hillary).

The more worrisome aspect of the analogy is that Kennedy-Johnson were the agents of change at a time when the nation desperately wanted the change that Kennedy outlined and Johnson brought to fruition, but then Johnson's inclination toward foreign intervention brought his tenure in office to a premature end when the populist wing of the Democratic Party would not unite around him.

Likewise, Obama was the agent of change when elected, but he accomplished his agenda in the first two years of his first term and has been playing defense since then; now, Hillary is the defender of Obama's status quo and Trump is the agent of change at a time when the nation desperately wants change again.

Hillary defeats Trump like Johnson beat Goldwater, but she needs to be the agent for further change which the people want to avoid Johnson's fate in the long run.

The country is no longer divided on ideological lines (both Melania and Ivanka Trump's speeches could have been {or were} given at a Democratic convention, and both got wild applause with traditionally progressive lines). The country (the globe, really) is dividing on populist versus establishment/elitist lines. The powerful right-wing machine will define us on the wrong side of that line if we let them.

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Reply Hillary should beat Trump like Johnson beat Goldwater in '64. Goldwater was a Republican outsider (Original post)
Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 OP
RandySF Jul 2016 #1
RonniePudding Jul 2016 #2
emulatorloo Jul 2016 #3
Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #6
emulatorloo Jul 2016 #7
frazzled Jul 2016 #4
L. Coyote Jul 2016 #5
Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #8
Lord Magus Jul 2016 #9
Sheepshank Jul 2016 #10

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:26 PM

1. If that were true

An OB/GYN who sterilized women without their consent would never be elected Senator, but it happened because he had an (R) next to his name in Oklahoma. People acting civilized at a convention does not reflect the reality of today's Republican Party. Trump's floor is 40%.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:32 PM

2. You mean 40 is his ceiling?

 

Because I think it's right around that, 40-44 percent, at the moment.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:51 PM

3. If you think a predatory capitalist is an 'agent for change' I have some beachfront property

in West Texas to sell you.

As to Ivanka's speech, it described Bernie and HRC perfectly. Unfortunately she was pretending it described her racist elitist father. Melania's described Barack Obama, because as you know, a big chunk of it was from Michelle's speech about Barack in '08

You know I always enjoy your posts, but the problem here is I feel you are swallowing Trump's false framing rather than recognizing it for the sham it is.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:33 PM

6. Undoubtedly, Trump is an agent of change (not good change, of course, but real -- if bad -- change).

I'm not swallowing Trump's framing -- I'm proposing that we prepare to rebut it instead of taking acts that reinforce it.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:34 PM

7. Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:52 PM

4. Goldwater was a five-term senator

Hardly an outsider.

DJT has never spent a day in any kind of public service, elected or not.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:13 PM

5. AuH2O got creamed. Here's the electoral map:

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Response to L. Coyote (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:50 PM

8. Exactly

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:59 PM

9. Is this "desperation for change" actually real or just precieved by the media?

Certainly Trump cultists are desperate for a particular type of change, the type that involves white supremacy being restored. But the idea that the country isn't divided on ideological lines is baffling. Rarely has the ideological divide been more stark.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:33 PM

10. Johnson won with 61% of the popular vote. The highest amount of any race.

 

Hillary could do this.

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