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uppityperson

(115,694 posts)
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 03:27 PM Aug 2016

I was in an abusive relationship

This was many years ago and the lessons learned have never left me. Trump's strategy reminds me of it.

They say or do something and immediately contradict themself, then get angry at others for not understanding and use that an excuse to lash out. It's always something else's fault for their nasty tantrums. They spread fear and offer a chance to belong to a tribe to deal with those fears.

Spread unreasonable fears, isolate your followers by pretending to be the only one who really understands them, inspire dependence, be unclear and contradictory, then blame everyone else for your own actions.

"You made me act this way". "How can you be so stupid to not understand?" "How dare you question me? ". Etc.

It's appalling to see so many fall for this abusive behavior and I am very glad the press is starting to call him on it.

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I was in an abusive relationship (Original Post) uppityperson Aug 2016 OP
I'm sorry you went through that. sarae Aug 2016 #1
I wouldn't be surprised if his family tolerates all of that behind closed doors lindysalsagal Aug 2016 #2
Back To The Future 2 Wednesdays Aug 2016 #52
K&R. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2016 #3
... In_The_Wind Aug 2016 #4
I agree with you. fun n serious Aug 2016 #5
Lots of drama in the Trump household vlyons Aug 2016 #43
Very interesting point matt819 Aug 2016 #6
Some would call it toxic bucolic_frolic Aug 2016 #7
I just got out of a 6 month 'relationship' with a narcissist ram2008 Aug 2016 #50
The best thing to do bucolic_frolic Aug 2016 #51
I was raised that way. Google "gaslighting". Crash2Parties Aug 2016 #8
. KMOD Aug 2016 #9
Also was in a 12 year abusive relationship Canoe52 Aug 2016 #10
I was as well -- it was my father. Raine1967 Aug 2016 #11
So sorry you endured that. But you do profile an abuser, and Rump is one. MoonRiver Aug 2016 #12
i agree SheriffBob Aug 2016 #18
Yes. Exactly. nolabear Aug 2016 #13
Sometimes it's not that simple. Francis Booth Aug 2016 #15
No kidding. At some point you don't know there is a world where you can "just leave". Crash2Parties Aug 2016 #16
Oh believe me, I know. I didn't mean to imply it's simple at all, or even possible. nolabear Aug 2016 #19
My mother was also a devout Catholic, and that Francis Booth Aug 2016 #24
Yes, the churches were cruel to women in those situations. nolabear Aug 2016 #28
They didn't have many options. Even their own family Francis Booth Aug 2016 #39
I'm glad. Sometimes that makes all the difference. nolabear Aug 2016 #40
I attended a Catholic college RoBear Aug 2016 #44
Ah, maybe it was an annulment that would have been Francis Booth Aug 2016 #49
yeah RoBear Aug 2016 #53
You have a lovely day too. It was nice chatting. nt Francis Booth Aug 2016 #54
So glad you wrote this electron_blue Aug 2016 #14
I have often thought that the Trumpets are like enablers randr Aug 2016 #17
More than enablers SheriffBob Aug 2016 #20
I was there, also. Kath1 Aug 2016 #21
As I said last weeek in another thread Shankapotomus Aug 2016 #22
domestic abuse survivor here jodymarie aimee Aug 2016 #23
I haven't heard about that. Kath1 Aug 2016 #34
I see it exactly the same way: MrScorpio Aug 2016 #25
That is a great term and explanation. uppityperson Aug 2016 #26
He is a gaslighter extraordinaire. nt tblue37 Aug 2016 #27
If Trump is elected, all of America..... lastlib Aug 2016 #29
Fellow survivor....I completely agree with your assessment. BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2016 #30
I too was in an abusive relationship worstexever Aug 2016 #31
Exactly. Figuring out why it feels so bad can help us not tolerate him but deal with it better uppityperson Aug 2016 #32
I too had a very abusive ex unapatriciated Aug 2016 #33
Agreed. Kath1 Aug 2016 #35
You got that right. amandabeech Aug 2016 #36
I ended up recording some phone conversations so I could check later, which I only did twice uppityperson Aug 2016 #37
I caught on to that late. amandabeech Aug 2016 #38
In another life, I'd call him Adolph. raven mad Aug 2016 #41
You certainly found your wings once you got away from it. I am so glad you survived!! marble falls Aug 2016 #42
I was married to someone who'd been through that. So sorry you had that experience Ken Burch Aug 2016 #45
Wow. rivegauche Aug 2016 #46
Amazing how repetitive and similar the behavior is. NCTraveler Aug 2016 #47
Google " NARCISSISTIC ABUSE SYNDROME " and " NARCISSISTIC ABUSE " NAO Aug 2016 #48

sarae

(3,284 posts)
1. I'm sorry you went through that.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 03:39 PM
Aug 2016

Trump seems like a classically abusive person. His whole entire campaign seems to be based on gaslighting the American electorate (I learned that term recently, and I always associate it with Trump now).

Gaslighting definition

lindysalsagal

(21,102 posts)
2. I wouldn't be surprised if his family tolerates all of that behind closed doors
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 03:40 PM
Aug 2016

money can make people tolerate alot. Especially if they feel they have nowhere else to go.

I don't know much about his wives, but it wouldn't surprise me if they came from nothing and had no back-up plan. Abusers choose such vulnerable people to get their way.

Wednesdays

(18,231 posts)
52. Back To The Future 2
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:52 PM
Aug 2016

and Marty's mom's hypothetical marriage to Biff comes to mind. In fact, the whole scenario of Biff becoming the richest man in America could be taken as a parody of Trump's status today, if it hadn't been filmed nearly 30 years ago!

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
5. I agree with you.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 04:02 PM
Aug 2016

In some cases people can have PTSD and get flashbacks when listening to Trump BS, at least that is how I feel.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
43. Lots of drama in the Trump household
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:19 PM
Aug 2016

Manipulative people create lots of drama, temper tantrums, slammed doors, silent treatment, acting out, feigned hurts and insults, abusive language, physical harm. His poor kids must have learned to step very very carefully, when Dad was in the house. Probably much much worse than the glimpses that he has shown in public.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
6. Very interesting point
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 04:04 PM
Aug 2016

Your comment touches on why the rest of us in the reality-based universe are baffled and increasingly uncomfortable. We don't know how to respond because we don't know what Trump will do or say as a followup.

There was a post a few above this one with a partial transcript of a CNN interview with a Trump minion. The issue was Trump's use of fringe websites for his economic policy information. The minion refused to answer the question and then changed the subject. How do you deal with that? You're always in a constant state of tension, no know what's going to happen next.

The further advantage Trump has is surrogates who will do his dirty work for him. For example, the utterly vile comments by NY former gubernatorial candidate Carl Paladino, wherein Paladino shit on the Khan family. It made me sick. Along the lines of what you're talking about in your post, that is abusive, but you don't know how to respond becuase it's not coming from the candidate (abusive spouse) and how he will comment on that later.

It's the constant state of uncertainty that is exhausting and, for a person in an abusive relationship, terrifying.

bucolic_frolic

(44,630 posts)
7. Some would call it toxic
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 04:36 PM
Aug 2016

I've met people like that. The narcissist will be exciting and charming
initially, to gain people's confidence. Slowly the dependence aspects
emerge, the double messages, inconsistencies. It's like the victims are
being probed to test their loyalty. The narcissist seeks what is termed
online as "narcissistic supply" - adoration. Eventually the victims seem
boring or they are not providing enough excitement, and the narcissist
blames the victim and abuses them to make themselves feel powerful
and rejects them. Then they move on to the next victim. 'What a piece
of trash those victims were, I'm better than THEM!'

ram2008

(1,238 posts)
50. I just got out of a 6 month 'relationship' with a narcissist
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 05:48 PM
Aug 2016

Your description is spot on. I'm not sure how long it will take to recover, but right now I feel very broken, manipulated, and used. It hurts. A lot.

The sad thing is part of me thinks I would go back... it is a very bad addiction-- the highs, the lows -- makes you feel alive. You can see all the red flags, but by then it is already too late.

bucolic_frolic

(44,630 posts)
51. The best thing to do
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 06:23 PM
Aug 2016

is to interact with people. And monitor your own mind, don't let it
dwell on the broken relationship trying to mend the turning points.
There is no fixing it. There is just understanding.

Incredibly a lot has been written about thei subject in the last 5 years.
I got onto it randomly. I bumped into someone I hadn't seen in 10 years
who said, "What the matter with you?" A brief explanation followed.

"You don't need the drama."

That night I was googling. Drama led to drama queen, which led to
narcissist. It took longer than I care to admit to get over it, but I rooted
it out myself.

And it is like we are programmed to be victims of narcissists. There is the
book "Toxic Parents". When we leave the nest, we seek the same familial
roles from others. Ready made victims for these dominant types.

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
8. I was raised that way. Google "gaslighting".
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 04:38 PM
Aug 2016

Hope life is much better for you now. The "lessons" don't ever leave you, but maybe that's a good thing, as they serve as a built in BS detector that cannot be fooled ever again (triggering & stressful as they are to hear or read about).

Trump truly comes off as the sort of charismatic, narcissistic person that in a different life would have led a cult that meets with a violent end, or maybe a "prosperity gospel" televangelist.


Canoe52

(2,952 posts)
10. Also was in a 12 year abusive relationship
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 04:55 PM
Aug 2016

And what the whole republican, conservative, tea party, and trumpets have been doing since nixon, has reminded me of that relationship. Just a whole "wonderful" dysfunctional family.

Raine1967

(11,590 posts)
11. I was as well -- it was my father.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 05:02 PM
Aug 2016

and I have been telling this to trusted friends that Trump has a way of triggering me.

The RNC convention was when I finally realized how toxic this man and his followers are to my personal health.

I know treat the words he says as one who is abusive and I treat it as such.

Excellent post, and I stand with you stand, Uppity.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
12. So sorry you endured that. But you do profile an abuser, and Rump is one.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 05:13 PM
Aug 2016

I definitely think Ivanka was abused.

Francis Booth

(162 posts)
15. Sometimes it's not that simple.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 05:21 PM
Aug 2016

Sometimes it's not that simple. My father used to threaten my mother with death if she ever left him, but only after he murdered us kids first before her eyes.

Mom just outlasted him. He drink himself to death by 50.

nolabear

(42,212 posts)
19. Oh believe me, I know. I didn't mean to imply it's simple at all, or even possible.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 05:50 PM
Aug 2016

But I do know that it's extremely rare that a chronic abuser changes. The power they have by being willing to do the unthinkable is vast.

I'm very sorry your father was like that, and felt the way he did. It's one of the most difficult situations ever when it gets to the point where someone threatens that kind of thing, and now and then they carry out that threat. The stress of living with that is almost unimaginable to those who haven't lived it.

Francis Booth

(162 posts)
24. My mother was also a devout Catholic, and that
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 06:17 PM
Aug 2016

in those days (the early 60s) you could actually be excommunicated from the church for getting a divorce. That was something she was not willing to consider.

As my mother got older, there was quite a bit of resentment by us kids towards her, for staying with such a madman and fucking us all up for the rest of our lives.

I finally achieved some kind of peace by age 60 after a life filled with anxiety, distrust, and depression.

nolabear

(42,212 posts)
28. Yes, the churches were cruel to women in those situations.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 07:11 PM
Aug 2016

Incredible how we have lost touch with how recent that history is.

Francis Booth

(162 posts)
39. They didn't have many options. Even their own family
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 11:12 PM
Aug 2016

would ostracize them for letting the marriage fail.

Oh well, life could have been worse. I had good friends to help me along, and my siblings and I, survivors all, remain very close to this day.

RoBear

(1,188 posts)
44. I attended a Catholic college
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:31 PM
Aug 2016

(graduated in '63), and I don't remember ever being taught that one could be excommunicated for divorce.

It may have been seen as "not done," but there were people who got civil divorces; in the eyes of the church it was a separation. Small distinction, but allowing one to remain in the church, but unmarried. One could get an annulment on specific grounds and could then remarry, as an annulment was a ruling that the marriage was not valid in the first place. (I'm tempted to comment that annulments were for those who had the money to pay for them, but that's perhaps too snarky even for me.)

I'm pretty sure that divorce was never grounds for excommunication; it was what you did then that was the "eject" button.

Francis Booth

(162 posts)
49. Ah, maybe it was an annulment that would have been
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 04:34 PM
Aug 2016

the desired process, but those must have been very difficult to get, because almost no Catholics of my parents generation got divorced. It just wasn't done.

The WWII dads of my childhood were largely a very tough and hardened bunch. Sent off to war at 17 or 18, many of them came back messed up and also addicted to alcohol and pain killers. My friends and I spent most of the time avoiding our fathers.

They also struggled financially, as it was a very blue-collar neighborhood. Somehow my parents raised 3 kids on a custodians wage, but things were tight. I remember our car died and we went about a year without one.

RoBear

(1,188 posts)
53. yeah
Tue Aug 16, 2016, 09:22 AM
Aug 2016

divorce was certainly a curiosity, probably because the church didn't allow it.

I think probably annulments involved a fairly substantial amount of cash, probably justified by cost associated with past marriages, etc. I had a sister-in-law who was apparently negotiating with the Wichita diocese for an annulment of a past marriage (even though she was not herself Catholic) so she could have a church wedding with my brother. We found letters between her and the diocese while sorting things out after my brother's death, one of which mentioned an amount she still owed. So far as I know, the matter wasn't settled before her death.

My brother was married in a civil ceremony but he maintained a good relationship with the priest and parishioners in our hometown, even helping out with church events from time to time. It was good to see things had changed, even a little bit, for the better.

Sorry this is so scattered, but I'm on my way out the door. Have a great day!

electron_blue

(3,592 posts)
14. So glad you wrote this
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 05:16 PM
Aug 2016

I went through the same thing many years ago and Trump's actions also echo what I went through. Immediately contradicting themselves is a great way to throw off the other person.

My advice to the world: Quit thinking Trump is trying to communicate. He is trying to manipulate.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
22. As I said last weeek in another thread
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 06:13 PM
Aug 2016

Trump is a domestic abuser and America is a battered spouse.

Never feel there aren't people out there who don't understand.

 

jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
23. domestic abuse survivor here
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 06:16 PM
Aug 2016

I am also a survivor. 1989 Trump after going to Ivana's plastic surgeon for a scalp reduction, stormed in on her. They had not had sex in 16 months. Don catted around. He proceeded to scream" I want you to feel the pain your fucking doctor inflicted on me" He pulled out her hair in clumps and then ripped off her clothes and raped her. This is all in the divorce transcripts and Henry Hunt's book. She got $14M so had to shut her mouth. NOBODY IN THE PRESS WILL TOUCH THIS....HOW COME?

lastlib

(23,719 posts)
29. If Trump is elected, all of America.....
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 07:32 PM
Aug 2016

...could be in a similar abusive relationship........just as Germany was under Hitler, Italy under Mussolini.....

. .

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
30. Fellow survivor....I completely agree with your assessment.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 07:40 PM
Aug 2016

I was raised in a scary, abusive, gaslit environment, never knowing when she (my mother) would go on attack again. When you're trapped in a seething world of rage/fawning/lies/denial, you become desperate for approval and affection.
Any crumb.

Took me a long line of abusive relationships to finally get the message, but now I'm good at spotting the type.

I wonder what will happen to the US citizens who bought into the abusive system of the GOPee will process this in years hence.

It takes a deep desire to get better and years of good therapy to learn to see reality. Some never do.

worstexever

(265 posts)
31. I too was in an abusive relationship
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 07:55 PM
Aug 2016

Now I get why hearing Trump speak makes me so extremely uncomfortable, more so than seems called for. His behavior and speech trigger old patterns that after many years of psychotherapy I am free of. I can't stand the man.

uppityperson

(115,694 posts)
32. Exactly. Figuring out why it feels so bad can help us not tolerate him but deal with it better
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 08:02 PM
Aug 2016

within ourselves. It's taken a bit of time to figure out why it's triggering me, why it's familiar and nauseating. We learned, and having it show up on a national platform is amazing.

Kath1

(4,309 posts)
35. Agreed.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 09:31 PM
Aug 2016

Thought I would die when I went through that divorce but found that that being a single liberated woman is a great thing. I had been so brainwashed to believe otherwise.

 

amandabeech

(9,893 posts)
36. You got that right.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 09:43 PM
Aug 2016

The worst thing is when people tell you that what you experienced didn't happen.

The worst.

You have to learn to trust your own eyes and ears.

uppityperson

(115,694 posts)
37. I ended up recording some phone conversations so I could check later, which I only did twice
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 09:53 PM
Aug 2016

Both times I recalled what he said correctly. It was a great help, knowing I could do that if I needed to.

 

amandabeech

(9,893 posts)
38. I caught on to that late.
Sun Aug 14, 2016, 09:56 PM
Aug 2016

I'm more up on it now. Fortunately, I have some hand written documents from my abuser.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
45. I was married to someone who'd been through that. So sorry you had that experience
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:42 PM
Aug 2016

And I know exactly what you mean by that.

His sons all sound the same way.

rivegauche

(601 posts)
46. Wow.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:46 PM
Aug 2016

That's a take I had never considered, but it makes so much sense! I'm glad you were able to get out of that bad relationship and retain such a strong understanding of the effed-up dynamics.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
47. Amazing how repetitive and similar the behavior is.
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 12:47 PM
Aug 2016

Not to start some flame war but it is why many of us women watch Grayson and that is proof in itself. We have seen how abusers act and the repetitive manifestations of their abuse. They are similar in many verbal and physical abusers.

NAO

(3,425 posts)
48. Google " NARCISSISTIC ABUSE SYNDROME " and " NARCISSISTIC ABUSE "
Mon Aug 15, 2016, 01:37 PM
Aug 2016

You will see how this same dynamic plays out in personal relationships

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