Conversation with an Undecided Voter

[rpannier]

Friend of mine, Iowa voter
We both live overseas (Korea)
He's in a quandary, he loathes HRC, but doesn't like Trump
Unlike me, an Illinois voter, his vote is rather important since his state is a toss up

I said, "Well... try this. If you can, give me three reasons to vote for HRC. They can't have anything to do with Trump. It can't be, I hate Trump. Trump is dangerous. Trump's hair is ugly. Whatever. Only For."

He gave me 1. She understands the political process in Washington. 2. She was a fairly successful SoS. 3. She seems competent.

I said, "Okay. Give me three reasons to vote for Trump. Can't be I hate Hillary. Or... anything about Bill. Or she ran over my dog. Why vote for Trump?"

He sat, thought about it and couldn't come up with anything.
I said, "I think you answered your own question."

I've noticed, since his 900 million dollar loss when 900 million was a whole lotta money and the US had many fewer billionaires, that the 'businessman' attraction has kind of died as a reason.
So, he really has nothing to offer the non-delusional

It's easier when they decide for themselves

[Cha]

4. Brilliant.. like

a mini-handbook for letting undecideds come to their own decisions.

It's too bad that so many have been brainwashed by years of HDS from the rwing and propagated by the m$m.

And, actually amazing that so many millions don't buy into that and are aware of her actual history of trying to help people and getting it done.

The candidates are a 180 degrees. trump is a ******* lunatic and Hillary has decades of experience in real life crisis situations and the internal workings of gov.

the trump fans say they're rabid about him because he's different and an outsider.. but, just because someone is different doesn't make them qualified for the job. trump is a vicious, vindictive, immature, predatory, psycho. Anyone who's ok with that must have those same failings.

8 years of bush2 was a tragic disaster and trump would be that only worse on steroids. Our country doesn't need to hand the keys to the White House to another repub Ever.. no matter how much they lie and promise a rosy future.

You're so exactly right.. nothing to offer the non-delusional! pin point!

[rpannier]

5. I think Pres Obama put it best

when he addressed the question of pulling for an outsider because people didn't want a politician
He compared it to being sick.
See a doctor with 20 years experience or some guy who espouses 10th century medical practices

[Cha]

7. I'm smiling @ the President Obama

example/analogy.

It can be the difference between life and death.

Thank you, rpannier

[lastlib]

20. (off topic--I looked at your tag-line...)

with the candle emoji right next to Hillary's pic, in which she appears to be extending her arm, that emoji kinda makes it look like she's flipping somebody off. That was my thought when I first glanced at it......

any way, you make some GREAT points! I did an OP last week comparing Trump to a baby copperhead snake--both kinda orange, venomous, thin-skinned, and scaly.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. When you hear someone say, "It takes a businessman to be president" say,...

"If all you care about is businessmen."

[Cha]

8. Wasn't bush2 promoted as an outsider and a businessman?

darth cheney, too?

[rpannier]

27. I just ask them to name some really good presidents who were successful businessmen

There aren't many.
The most successful usually started with money
Many US Presidents were failures in business: Truman was a failed haberdasher, Adams' farm was a mess, Jefferson was pretty much broke, Washington inherited, Roosevelt inherited, etc
Most successful presidents were lawyers and career politicians

[LittleGirl]

10. Finding a conservative while you live abroad

is like finding a needle in a haystack but they exist. This is a great way to help someone that doesn't like either candidate.

I have a few friends here and some are British and they cannot believe how Trump has come so far in this election. They are just dumb struck.

I tried to explain it on Monday with one of my British friends (who actually voted for Brexit) that part of it is that the Republicans have obstructed Obama from the get-go and some of that was racism but some of that was that they were left out, politically. They believe neither party has helped them in their middle class lives and they have Fox Spews to watch every night to feed their right wing propaganda. I explained that the MSM is owned by conservatives and there is no true liberal news organization. I said, most of trump supporters are white bred, uneducated males that don't support abortion rights, civil rights for LGBT or marriage equality and are religious hypocrites. Their factories closed and they have no where else to work but don't see that Trump has done with his business what they are fighting about, meaning sent the jobs to China instead of the US. I also said that they never see people of color, or different nationalities and don't understand anything except their pure bred whiteness that Fox is telling them is in jeopardy. All they are fed is that Obama and Clinton are devils, evil people that want to give welfare to lazy people and healthcare to boot! They just don't get it at all and are fed lies constantly about how the world works and not only don't have a passport, have never left the country. They are isolated and have no clue about the world in general.

[oberliner]

12. You have British friends that can't believe how far Trump has come in this election?

Were they out of town for the Brexit vote?

Nigel Farage?

He is literally on the campaign trail with Trump at time and serving as his surrogate on tv.

[Benney_S]

18. Nigel Farage is pretty much on his own

Prominent Brexiters like Rees-Mogg and Ian Dunderhead Smith wouldn't vote for him now and Boris the Buffoon has never liked him.

Trump is an out and out nut job and would have next to no support in the UK. Nobody I know would vote for him

[oberliner]

23. The UKIP has done quite well lately

Isn't there some overlap between the UKIP types and the Trump types in the US?

[LittleGirl]

28. this person

can't stand Nigel. She's a good one and very liberal so I was surprised to hear she voted for Brexit too. She's not a racist.

[oberliner]

29. Understood

But isn't there a bit of a Trump-like vibe among the UKIP folks?

[LittleGirl]

30. yes most of them are racists

but I can assure you, she isn't one of them. She comes from an area of the UK that has accepted lots of refugees and the gov't has not provided enough funds to help them. She wanted the gov't to provide better education funds which she thought the brexit would provide. I can see her point but at first I was a bit shocked. She's actually livid from all of the lies.

[Feeling the Bern]

16. In ten years overseas, I met one.

[LittleGirl]

31. some of the American military

members I've met are conservatives but have kept a friendship across the pond (that moved back to the states) with some of the liberals that can think for themselves.

[oberliner]

11. Do they air Hannity in Korea?

I think the problem is that there is so much Hillary hate floating around on Fox News and its ilk that it's hard to get folks who are Republicans but don't like Trump to cross over and vote for Clinton.

[Feeling the Bern]

14. Didn't when I was there. They don't in China where I am now.

Luckily, all the Americans I know in China think Trump is an asshole and will vote for HRC.

[oberliner]

15. That's good

I think it's hard to explain the passionate Hillary hate without understanding Fox and the RW talk shows.

[FailureToCommunicate]

17. Hopefully they'll just stay home...or vote on Nov 28. Give Congress back to the Dems.

The toxic sewage that beams out daily from RW radio is way worse than FOX. Those listeners will never vote FOR Clinton. The best we can hope is that they'll skip voting.

[oberliner]

25. Or they can write in Mike Pence or vote for McMuffin

As long as they don't vote for Trump.

[rpannier]

24. They show fox on AFN (Armed Forces Network)

or did when I was in Seoul/Bucheon
But, I'm now further south, Gwangju and they don't show AFN anywhere

[Coolest Ranger]

13. Thanks for having that conversation

Your friend would never listen to me, a person of color

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Masterfully played. Great example of a good technique for reaching voters. Thanks! . . . nt

[Vinca]

21. A very good tactic.

When you rule out the talking points generated by the right wing cottage industry of hate, it seems rather obvious what the best choice is.

[TNNurse]

22. As we see it.

they have chosen to believe that Hillary murdered people, caused the deaths in Benghazi and tormented Bill's other women.
They have no proof, do not care about the investigations which have proved nothing. Fox told them so it is true.


They ignore Trump's foul mouth, adultery, total ignorance of how government works or foreign affairs. They do not care that he declared bankruptcy multiple times, has a long history of not paying people for work and services and admitted to sexual assault on tape.

They have decided he is a great businessman because he says so, his denial of saying things that can be proved by tape means nothing.

Their hatred for her and for Bill is so strong it blinds them to everything.

Did I mention insulting military heroes and gold star families???? And are wiling to believe the story about him being a Christian and accepting Jesus....that is BS. But saying those words means everything to them, no matter if there is anything behind the words.

They support and love a lying bigot. It is very very sad.


]

[Grins]

26. Flip it!!

Ha! You could have flipped his own answers right back to him:

1. Trump understands the political process in Washington? Bwahahahahaha!!! Next.

2. Trump was a fairly successful (businessman)? With four bankruptcies? And aided by the Mafia? He has as his “Russia adviser” a guy who built a money-grubbing career out of kissing Putin’s ass? That a Saudi Prince had to bail him out of another financial disaster? That he paid bribes to both pols and prosecutors...? That an avowed white nationalist group ran campaign ads for him and he never disavowed them? Before you declare him a success - show me his taxes.

3. Trump seems competent? With the thinnest of skin and driven for revenge for any slight? Trump Univ? Trump Inst.? He just ruined a money-making titty contest. How can a narcissist who can't control his own pie-hole be called competent?