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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:07 AM Nov 2016

Why the fixation with trying to prove trade didn't matter?

We already know nothing progressive came of NAFTA or would have of TPP.

We know those deals were never good for any Democratic voting blocs or any blue states.

What is the point in trying to get right-wing trade deals off the hook?

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why the fixation with trying to prove trade didn't matter? (Original Post) Ken Burch Nov 2016 OP
because it's usually used to avoid the real reason people voted the way they did JI7 Nov 2016 #1
Feingold lost because of the massive number of negative ads run against him. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #2
but it was the issue when they support someone like Trump and a free trade candidate who aligns with JI7 Nov 2016 #3
You can't assume it's universal among those voters on that. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #4
nothing is 100 percent . but it's a much bigger part of it than anything else JI7 Nov 2016 #5
"we all agree that Trump appealed to hate". Much it directed at Mexicans and NAFTA. Nobody pampango Nov 2016 #6
Wrong. You are thirty years too late to the party. n/t duffyduff Nov 2016 #18
Cause that would mean acknowledging we nominated the wrong candidate. nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2016 #7
Because manufacturing jobs are never coming back. It's a fantasy to believe otherwise. randome Nov 2016 #8
Jobs must come back or this country is over and they can come back. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #11
It's the Information Age. The jobs are out there for anyone in IT and mobile. randome Nov 2016 #14
That is untrue. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #15
Thank you! And coal jobs are not coming back either... it's a new world. NurseJackie Nov 2016 #12
And that should ALSO have been done. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #20
What's with 4/5 OPs about this? bettyellen Nov 2016 #9
I think trade did matter personally Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #10
"Fixation" ... HA! That cracks me up! NurseJackie Nov 2016 #13
I am not to blame for the defeat. And the Sanders supporters did nothing to deserve your hatred. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #21
Every class is brought up they need to accuse others of been racist. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #16
Why should I care about the aggrieved white dudes who wouldn't have voted Dem anyway? duffyduff Nov 2016 #17
If you think that trade deals are the reasons why the factories, then you're mis-informed. Yavin4 Nov 2016 #19

JI7

(89,334 posts)
1. because it's usually used to avoid the real reason people voted the way they did
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:10 AM
Nov 2016

Why Trump and not FEingold ?

what is it about Feingold that those who claim to oppose trade ended up voting for his opponent who is a big supporter of free trade ?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
2. Feingold lost because of the massive number of negative ads run against him.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:17 AM
Nov 2016

And also because Johnson, the incumbent, tied himself heavily to Trump even while opposing him on that one issue.

Look, we all agree that Trump appealed to hate, but we can't ever increase our vote share in future elections by pretending bigotry the only issue. Putting the role bigotry first means opposing any progressive changes in our program on anything else.

It isn't either/or. We don't have to backburner the anti-oppression fight OR backburner economic justice. We can fight for both at the same time.

JI7

(89,334 posts)
3. but it was the issue when they support someone like Trump and a free trade candidate who aligns with
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:19 AM
Nov 2016

Trump while voting against the candidate who is criticial of trade.

it means they didn't vote on trade. it means they voted on bigotry .

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
4. You can't assume it's universal among those voters on that.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:29 AM
Nov 2016

After all, a significant number of Johnson voters would have had to have voted for Tammy Baldwin(an "out" lesbian and an athiest or agnostic of Jewish ancestry) and Barack Obama.

It's not as that large of a group of voters would turn into bigots between 2012 and 2016. Or from the the previous elections that Feingold won.

Also, the largest bloc of people who voted for Johnson are people who would automatically vote for ANY Republican.

I agree with you that Trump appealed to hate...but it isn't as simple as that and if it was the fight would be lost forever. There would be no hope of ever recovering from this year.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
6. "we all agree that Trump appealed to hate". Much it directed at Mexicans and NAFTA. Nobody
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 06:59 AM
Nov 2016

seems to complain about Canadians and NAFTA. And we trade with Canada more than we do with Mexico.

Was Trump's appeal to hate the only reason for that difference? No. Did it play a role? I bet Trump thinks it did. If you want to build a wall to keep the evil Mexicans out, why would you want to trade with them and let their stuff into the country?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
8. Because manufacturing jobs are never coming back. It's a fantasy to believe otherwise.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 07:24 AM
Nov 2016

Perhaps trade-related issues could have been more at the forefront of the campaign, but the way to do that would be to press home the GOP's obstruction toward infrastructure spending.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
14. It's the Information Age. The jobs are out there for anyone in IT and mobile.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 11:40 AM
Nov 2016

This is a long, drawn-out transition period. Perhaps it isn't fair to put everything into IT but that's what's happening.

IT isn't for everyone but that's what's happening.

Ignoring reality will not make things better. The closest to manufacturing we can come now is infrastructure spending and we all know who's to blame for that not taking off.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Demsrule86

(68,979 posts)
15. That is untrue.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:15 PM
Nov 2016

And the sorts of jobs you describe are already being moved overseas for cheap labor. Sorry, the idea that we don't need to make stuff is simply wrong...no nation without a strong economy based on hard goods will remain a powerful company. And what you say is why we lost the Mid-West. China is making money hand over fist with the jobs we gave them. And we are already seeing white collar jobs leaving this country as well.

Demsrule86

(68,979 posts)
10. I think trade did matter personally
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 11:07 AM
Nov 2016

However, other DUer's look at Feingold's loss to a free trader, and also Hillary voted against CAFTA while in the Senate. She had nothing to do with NAFTA. Trump, on the other hand, imported illegal steel from China. I can see both sides.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
21. I am not to blame for the defeat. And the Sanders supporters did nothing to deserve your hatred.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:32 PM
Nov 2016

Most of us DID support and campaign for Bernie...and we're just as heartsick about the loss as you are.

Stop the abusiveness already.

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
16. Every class is brought up they need to accuse others of been racist.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:27 PM
Nov 2016

I don't feel like any lessons were learned. After coming here I feel like 2018 and 2020 are going to be just as bad. Nothing learned just blaming the victims. The victims of a neo-liberal democratic party establishment.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
17. Why should I care about the aggrieved white dudes who wouldn't have voted Dem anyway?
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:59 PM
Nov 2016

The GOP created NAFTA, specifically Bush I and not Clinton though it became reality during his term, not the Dems, but go ahead and peddle that fiction.

I don't give a shit these guys lost those jobs. They voted for the very people who started the mess.

They are racist, sexist assholes, and they have always been that way. You can't fix them at all. They are stupid and were raised that way.

You still don't have a clue what happened. It was entirely the media's fault for creating Donald Trump the candidate.



Yavin4

(35,475 posts)
19. If you think that trade deals are the reasons why the factories, then you're mis-informed.
Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:14 PM
Nov 2016

It's called GLOBAL COMPETITION. Take away the trade agreements, and the factories would still close. Hell, they were closing BEFORE the trade deals were made in the late 80s and early 90s.

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