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Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:21 PM

Team Bernie: "Hillary f*cking ignored us in swing states"

Last edited Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Interesting interview with Sanders staffers who reached out to the Clinton campaign at the convention, but were rebuffed.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/20/team-bernie-hillary-fucking-ignored-us-in-swing-states.html

Democrats who hope to win in 2018 and beyond will ignore the lesson of this error by HRC's team at their own peril.

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Arrow 70 replies Author Time Post
Reply Team Bernie: "Hillary f*cking ignored us in swing states" (Original post)
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 OP
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #1
TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #44
Chasstev365 Dec 2016 #2
TexasBushwhacker Dec 2016 #32
Name removed Dec 2016 #57
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #35
Post removed Dec 2016 #3
PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #4
mythology Dec 2016 #5
Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #18
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #36
UCmeNdc Dec 2016 #46
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #62
Bettie Dec 2016 #52
Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #63
Bettie Dec 2016 #68
ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #6
duffyduff Dec 2016 #7
Name removed Dec 2016 #8
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #13
Name removed Dec 2016 #14
Justice Dec 2016 #33
still_one Dec 2016 #56
radical noodle Dec 2016 #37
JI7 Dec 2016 #9
jalan48 Dec 2016 #10
Name removed Dec 2016 #21
jalan48 Dec 2016 #26
oasis Dec 2016 #11
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #12
Name removed Dec 2016 #24
emulatorloo Dec 2016 #61
Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #19
oasis Dec 2016 #20
Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #64
oasis Dec 2016 #65
Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #66
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #69
NWCorona Dec 2016 #25
Lil Missy Dec 2016 #15
SidDithers Dec 2016 #16
oasis Dec 2016 #22
LenaBaby61 Dec 2016 #39
NWCorona Dec 2016 #27
radical noodle Dec 2016 #38
Yavin4 Dec 2016 #17
Name removed Dec 2016 #23
NWCorona Dec 2016 #28
Justice Dec 2016 #29
NWCorona Dec 2016 #31
NWCorona Dec 2016 #34
Justice Dec 2016 #45
NWCorona Dec 2016 #59
LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #48
NWCorona Dec 2016 #60
Truth321 Dec 2016 #30
HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #40
MFM008 Dec 2016 #41
bravenak Dec 2016 #42
GoCubsGo Dec 2016 #67
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #43
Justice Dec 2016 #47
kcr Dec 2016 #49
Kentonio Dec 2016 #53
kcr Dec 2016 #54
Joe941 Dec 2016 #50
crazycatlady Dec 2016 #58
Kolesar Dec 2016 #51
vi5 Dec 2016 #55
treestar Dec 2016 #70

Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:26 PM

1. Interesting read.

As the days and weeks flew by, the Bernie delegation kept underscoring TPP, jobs, union allies, the youth vote, and the environment, and pitched multiple rallies with Sanders in states such as Pennsylvania and Michigan (a state where Sanders unexpectedly beat Clinton in the Democratic primary, and a state that Clinton actively neglected during the general).

“The math that they lost on, is the math we won on,” Konst said. “So we wrote out a plan, and sent it to them, telling them to stop thinking you’re going to get this ‘Obama coalition,’ it’s not going to happen.”

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:18 AM

44. And what fomented the loss of Indys, X-Over Reps and Millennials? HRC selecting Kaine over Sanders

.


Before the flamers hit, I am a staunch Democrat & voted and promoted for her election.


It completely overlooks the sentiment of many towards HRC, the resentment of the DNC and political institutions.


There were a multitude of factors that led to the stars aligning the way they did.


While Sanders attracted more Indys, Cross-over Republicans, Millennials, and true progressives, HRC was more centered on traditional Democratic base support. As public perception changed though the primary, when people actually saw that there might be a valid alternative, HRC selectively co-opted Sanders' positions only when they were politically expedient to win a state. One state she'd denounce his positions, because they were Dem strongholds, then she'd co-opt him in coal country or areas of extreme liberalism to neutralize any difference between the two. Then, she'd switch back. This behavior fed into the GOP narrative that she'd do anything to win. This is political reality, if one were to step out of the Democratic Party lens for a moment.


But, without me writing a 10 page dissertation, I'll summarize it in a short paragraph.


Ronald Reagan and GHW Bush really fucking hated each other, to the point where it created a schism in the party. Instead of remaining divisive, they came together to defeat Carter and win three presidential elections. Clinton chose to kick dirt in the Sanders' supporters eyes by selecting Kaine, not learning from political history. She took the gamble that voters would go binary and not vote for Trump, because he is, well... Trump. That act prevented her from having a 60-40 win, something that would have survived any Comey or other last minute trick, by jettisoning those Indys and disillusioned voters. The belief that women would side with her, when the past 45 years, since ERA, shows a solid 45% of women vote GOP--due mainly from evangelical/orthodox support for paternalism. This trend denial is an astonishing contortion of political historical fact. This was a tactical failure on HRC's part, as the collective nation gasped and then said, "Who the fuck is Tim Kaine?"


.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 11:26 PM

2. Much like the Gore team in 2000, the Clinton team was arrogant

 

They should have been reaching out to ANYONE who wanted to defeat King Donald the 1st, but they didn't.

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Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:37 AM

32. They ignored their state campaigns too

"There were the numerous pleas from state party leaders to get Clinton to specific states – like Michigan – earlier, and to devote more resources to state party operations, which provide the oil and expertise to get out the vote.

"But it was all about analytics with them," the DNC source says. "They were too reliant on analytics and not enough on instinct and human intel from the ground."

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-run-2016/articles/2016-11-11/dnc-staff-arrogance-cost-hillary-clinton-the-election-vs-donald-trump

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #32)


Response to Chasstev365 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:51 AM

35. It was painful to watch.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 06:47 PM

4. I'm not surprised.

I love Nomiki Konst by the way and would love to see her run for office. She's tough, smart, and knows how to fight.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 07:05 PM

5. It sounds like it could just be sniping after a losing campaign

 

In particular this bit

“They mocked us, they made fun of us. They always had a… model that was supposed to save the day. We were street activists and they don’t get that. And that’s a fundamental divide. They ran a check-the-box, sanitized campaign. And voters don’t think like that. You don’t win elections that way.”

comes across as rather silly in light of losing to Clinton. Also trying to act like they can tell the Clinton campaign how they should outreach to BLM is amusing given how poorly Sanders did with black voters in the primaries.

Clinton was ahead in the polls up until the second Comey announcement. I don't know if the Sanders campaign staffers would have had a plan for that (other than inventing a time machine and not setting the stupid thing up in the first place which is really the correct answer).

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Response to mythology (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:12 AM

18. That attitude was seen here

 

When points were brought up about how to win over Sanders voters, many just said "we don't need them." Seems like that might have been a bad attitude and one that, from what is being said in the OP and elsewhere, an attitude that was in the Clinton campaign, too. Hopefully that changes before the next election.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:53 AM

36. Amazing when you think back on it... Hillary would have been wise to pick Bernie to be her running mate.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 08:08 AM

46. I posted this here on DU...... Hillary should have picked Bernie Sanders as her VP

I wonder why people cannot see the obvious as world events development .......

Bernie would have made the perfect running mate and helped Hillary's overall image problem. Plus he is a logical political fighter.

Just like I am telling all who will listen right now......

Trump is totally corrupt. He stole the election from Clinton by using the Russian intelligence assets. Trump sees nothing wrong in this since all he cares about is getting what he wants. Obvious!

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Response to UCmeNdc (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:07 PM

62. Yes, making Bernie the VP pick was an obvious move that would have GUARANTEED Hillary the Presidency... but, you just know her supporters would have gone ballistic.

Talk about a slam dunk, Russian hackers be damned!! (But, more satisfying to blame Bernie for the loss.)

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:13 AM

52. Nearly every day, this was brought up

we don't need Sanders voters...you guys are just loony leftists, she's got this and doesn't need you...you lost, we won, we don't need your votes, there aren't enough of you to make a difference.

Any critique of Clinton or question about her was followed up with "we don't need you".

And yet, most of us sucked it up and voted for Clinton, even though we were told repeatedly that we were neither needed nor wanted.

Here's an idea: welcome those to the Left of wherever center is these days. Listen to what they have to say, even if it challenges your paradigms (this is to the party in general).

Of course, that assumes there will be real elections again. I'm not so sure that is a possibility any more.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:11 PM

63. It is very frustrating.

 

First I (we) had to go through those arguments of not needing us and now we are the reason she lost.

It would be nice if Clinton and the DNC actually took some responsibility for losing to Trump rather than looking for the scapegoat of the day. Unless we figure out why the campaign didn't resonate, we are doomed to lose again.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #63)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 03:02 PM

68. I don't think it had anything to really do with Clinton herself

beyond the fact that there was a concentrated 20+ year marketing campaign to make people distrust her.

That is why she wasn't the best choice, because it takes an awful lot of time to overcome that.

And yes, it is frustrating that people latch on to the fact that someone else dared to run in the primary and THAT is the sole reason she did not win the EC.

Voter suppression, election fraud, many millions in free advertising for Trump, overconfidence...these are not factors, it is all 100% the fault of those whose first choice wasn't Clinton.

I voted for her, I even made phone calls (which I wasn't planning to do, because people were so very adamant that she didn't need it, she had it in the bag).

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 07:38 PM

6. Oh bullshit.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:50 PM

7. Plus 1000

 

NT

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:00 PM

13. If that's your takeaway...

Then I hope you're not involved in the Dems campaign in 2020. If If the HRC team was offered hard assets (both workers and information) in states they lost to Sanders, they should not have turned them away.

Did you read the article? I didn't see anyone from sanders' team express a desire to have their ass kissed, just disappointment and frustration at having valuable resources ignored.

If the Dems don't learn from their mistakes (and the rejection of Sanders team's support, specifically in the rust belt, was a mistake), then the Dems will continue to lose elections. Weren't we supposed to be "stronger together"?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #13)


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:38 AM

33. Many Sanders supporters were openly hostile during and after convention.



Hard to know who was on the Democrats team and who was on Bernie's team

No trust there. Trust had to come from Bernie and his leadership and from Hillary and her leadership.

We know Hillary was able to get her people to support Obama in 2008 so have no reason to believe
she or her people were the problem.

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Response to Justice (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:23 AM

56. they sure were, and the fact that Russ Feingold, and every Democrat running for Senate in a swing

state lost to the establishment, incumbent republican, was a result of enough self-identified progressives, not just refusing to vote for Hillary, but also not voting down ticket.

In Wisconsin, if everyone who voted third party, had voted down ticket for Feingold, Russ would be the Senator today. In fact Russ lost by a bigger percentage than Hillary, and while if everyone who voted for Jill Stein voted for Hillary, she would have won Wisconsin, the fact that Russ Feingold lost by a much greater percentage is really sad. This pattern was also not unique to Wisconsin.

In Michigan, Hillary lost by .3%. Jill Stein received 1.1% of the vote. Pennsylvania, very similar along with other states

There is no excuse why we didn't win the Senate race in those critical swing states, and thus control the Senate.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:03 AM

37. Except they seem to forget the changes made to the platform

to win the Bernie voters. Their crap at the convention was tolerated when it should not have been. All the while Bernie supporters were cheering on the Jill Stein "Trump and Hillary are the same" campaign. I'm not buying.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 09:56 PM

9. they sound like fucking assholes.

And of course nothing in why the senate races were lost by an even larger amount.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:12 PM

10. "She's Got This".

Yeah, right.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #10)


Response to Name removed (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:32 AM

26. You're angry?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:19 PM

11. Losing team giving a seminar on "how to win". Great! sign me up.

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Response to oasis (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:51 PM

12. Which team was the "losing team"?

Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Pride goeth before the fall...

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #12)


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:48 AM

61. Jeff Weaver's band of inept strategy advisors.

Bernie primary supporter here. Weaver failed to broaden Bernie's coalition. The only person with any sense was Symone Sanders.

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Response to oasis (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:12 AM

19. Clinton lost, you know.

 

Not sure if you heard.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:18 AM

20. The Bernie team was done early on. So what's your point?

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Response to oasis (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:14 PM

64. My point

 

is that Clinton supporters and campaign giving a lecture on how to win is equally silly.

She made mistakes. A lot of them. She lost. We need to learn from that and not just point fingers and say it was the Sanders supporters that caused the loss. Because that is just silly.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #64)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:56 PM

65. If you find the time do do a little research you'll discover that Russian

hacking and F.BI. Director Comey played a large part in Hillary's defeat. Bernie's campaign wasn't saddled with anything close to that kind of disadvantage, but was roundly dispatched by Clinton early in the primary.

No, the Clinton machine didn't request nor require any help from the Bernie bunch.

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Response to oasis (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 02:03 PM

66. "the Clinton machine didn't request nor require any help from the Bernie bunch."

 

Then I expect nobody on DU is going to say it was his supporters' fault that she lost. Though I keep seeing that a lot. I expect you will be setting people straight about that from now on.

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Response to oasis (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:01 PM

69. There were many factors beyond HRC's control contributing to her loss

But accepting support from the Sanders campaign, especially in the Rust Belt swing states, was one thing within the HRC campaign's control that might have mitigated those factors that were out of their control.

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Response to oasis (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:32 AM

25. That being what it is. The fact that crucial swing states were ignored and lost

Can't be overlooked. Especially when valuable resources were offered and denied.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:55 PM

15. Me thinks the losing team that feels this way ought to go piss up a rope. n/t

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:07 AM

16. Team Bernie put fucking Cornel West on the platform committee at the Democratic Convention...

That was a giant "Fuck You" to Hillary and the rest of the Democratic party.

And they're complaining they were rebuffed?

Give me a fucking break.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:26 AM

22. Cornel West should be permanently banned from any Democratic

Party organizing function.

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Response to oasis (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:15 AM

39. Cornel West should be permanently banned from any Democratic.

He's STILL criticizing Team Hillary.

Meanwhile, the Dems were voter disenfranchised and voter suppressed to DEATH by the GOP. Plus, the ruskies were "invited" by tRumputin to go after Hillary, and they did BIGLY with cyber-hacking and russian propaganda/bots disinformation etc.

I've not heard much that loud mouth has to say about tRumputin. He, along with Sarandon will be totally irrelevant as these next 4 years progress. Hell, they're irrelevant NOW. I could be mistaken, but neither have said anything about tRumputin draining his billionaire swamp into the White House nor about him selling every piece of himself and that grifting family of his to the highest bidder.

When is that loud mouth cow Sarandon and that weasel-looking West gonna take on tRumputin? Probably never. West especially will probably still be talking about Pres. Obama in the negative even though his boy tRumputin will be in the White House with his posse of swamp billionaire, putin-loving alligators destroying this country.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:33 AM

27. What does the fact that West was on the committee have to do

With the point being made?

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:05 AM

38. It was a Fuck You to our President as well

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:09 AM

17. This Bernie "I told you so" tour is not helpful and is getting old. n/t

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #17)


Response to Name removed (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:34 AM

28. It's happening on both sides.

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:35 AM

29. No it is not.

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Response to Justice (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:36 AM

31. We will just have to agree to disagree

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 08:03 AM

45. ??? Linked to a deleted post?

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Response to Justice (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:03 AM

59. It wasn't always deleted

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Response to NWCorona (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 08:32 AM

48. No. It's not.

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:04 AM

60. We will just have to agree to disagree

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:36 AM

30. They are right

 

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:18 AM

40. That same fight continues today

 

Between the old guard staying the course and the new guard changing the course

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:31 AM

41. It's over

For Sanders
For HRC.
I'll never vote for anyone older than me again.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 01:52 AM

42. Time to get over it

 

This 'I told you so' tour is pretty sad shit considering he never has won a Democratic primary yet. If he runs again I bet the exact same thing happens.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 02:23 PM

67. Yep. A bunch of useful idiots.

I'm sure Comrade Trump and his ilk just love this. More "divide and conquer." It makes their job a lot easier to have us fighting among ourselves. I think the best thing to do when we see these sorts of threads from now on is to hit that little box with the "X" in it, and move along. We have FAR more important battles to wage right now than arguing this shit over and over and over again.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 02:54 AM

43. Absolutely.

The Dems should take advice from the non-Democrat on how to run their party - the party Bernie ONLY briefly signed-onto when it served his own political goals.

That would be the same Bernie "Mr. Transparency" Sanders who couldn't cough up his complete tax returns - and then blamed it on his wife - when he could have phoned the IRS and had those returns in-hand within hours?

That would be the same Bernie who only ran on the Dem ticket because, as he himself said, it was the only way he could get media attention?

That would be the same Bernie who once said: "It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party," and then went on to run for that party, regardless of the hypocrisy, when it suited his personal agenda?

THAT Bernie Sanders?

The only lesson to be learned here is that non-Democrats should never be permitted to run as Democrats. And heeding their sage advice AFTER they've lost the nomination of that party - by a huge amount of votes - seems more than counter-productive. It seems downright insane.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 08:11 AM

47. Amen

Worth repeating -
The only lesson to be learned here is that non-Democrats should never be permitted to run as Democrats.

When Democrats run in primary, they pick a winner and then close ranks together to go into the general election.

Bernie did not close ranks with Hillary completely. He did not move all of his supporters to close ranks with Hillary's supporters to go into the general election. He helped her sure, but you could see daylight between them. You could see it in Bernie's face and his wife's face at the convention. He did not do for Clinton what Clinton did for Obama in 2008. This after the Clinton team included Bernie in the platform and emphasized many of his themes - which were also her themes.

On the GOP side, there was fracture, and that fracture almost cost them the election.

But when Trump started getting traction in the last couple of weeks, because of Comey - you noticed the fracture quickly healed and the GOP came together. People who spoke against him suddenly were okay with him.

Yeah, that bit of daylight -- people like Susan Sarandon and others who were team Bernie wavered for Clinton. In such a squeaker election in a few states - that daylight was enough.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 09:44 AM

49. Of course, it goes both ways I'm sure.

They never ignore any advice they're given. When they're told they need to reach out more to minorities because they come off real bad there, they were totally receptive to that!

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Response to kcr (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:18 AM

53. They did.

But it was too late, and Clinton's people were having far too much fun playing the 'old white racist guy' card to let it go. The fault was in believing that being a lifetime activist for minority rights was an actual qualification. It turns out it means absolutely nothing if you don't have the right optics.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:20 AM

54. Exhibit A, right here

Last edited Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

And what did I just see, but you in another thread posting that BB canard about Hillary doing well in primaries in the south. Wow. What a shock.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:02 AM

50. This is spot on!

Bernie in 2020!

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:25 AM

58. No

Bernie will be pushing 80 in 2020 (as will Joe Biden). Younger candidates please.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:12 AM

51. I did all that I could to ignore them on Facebook

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:20 AM

55. Let's not also forget....

 

..that her own Hispanic/Latino outreach coordinator said similar things with regard to how they treated his suggestions and his area of expertise. And he obviously was not a "sour grapes" Bernie supporter.

Nobody should discount that there were a ton of other factors as well, which were well outside of the HRC campaigns control that influenced the outcome of the election. But there's also enough evidence that the campaign itself made some pretty big blunders, often rooted in their own hubris that also could have swung things the other way if they had acted differently.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Fri Dec 23, 2016, 01:46 PM

70. We can get out and do shit ourselves

We the People.

How weak to blame others as if they could not do anything without attention from the top.

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