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Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:00 PM

Perhaps our best hope is to convert John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Rand Paul...

Into Democrats and flip the Senate - or at least Independents that caucus with the Democrats.

Maybe even, gulp, Marco Rubio (either Paul or Rubio).

I know it sounds insane - the Hail Mary of all Hail Marys - but each of these guys hates Trump about as much as we do...

If they can be persuaded that the Republican Party is no more - that it is now THE PARTY OF TRUMP - who is partnered with the arch enemy of America - Vladimir Putin's Russia - well, why the hell wouldn't they bolt to try to STOP TRUMP? I think it's possible. (Graham has an election in 2 years - right? But he probably hates Trump the most - and he just may be able to survive that.)

I don't like any of these guys politically - but I do think that each of them believe that they have been trying to do what's best for America.

Anyone agree? If so, how do we give such a "campaign" some kind of subtle nudge? Perhaps contacting Democratic Senators - floating the idea their way that they should consider courting these guys? Perhaps they already are. Even still, hearing their constituents seconding the idea might entice them to consider it more seriously?

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Reply Perhaps our best hope is to convert John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Rand Paul... (Original post)
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 OP
get the red out Jan 2017 #1
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #2
Hortensis Jan 2017 #37
NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #3
MrPurple Jan 2017 #4
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #7
dionysus Jan 2017 #36
NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #10
Garrett78 Jan 2017 #11
NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #23
Hortensis Jan 2017 #38
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #18
Chasstev365 Jan 2017 #5
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #8
Alice11111 Jan 2017 #27
Garrett78 Jan 2017 #6
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #9
MrPurple Jan 2017 #12
Garrett78 Jan 2017 #13
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #16
Ken Burch Jan 2017 #31
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #14
vi5 Jan 2017 #15
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #17
kenfrequed Jan 2017 #19
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #20
kenfrequed Jan 2017 #21
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #22
Hortensis Jan 2017 #39
NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #25
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #41
Garrett78 Jan 2017 #26
NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #24
Alice11111 Jan 2017 #29
dubyadiprecession Jan 2017 #28
NCTraveler Jan 2017 #30
BainsBane Jan 2017 #32
JI7 Jan 2017 #33
KG Jan 2017 #34
dionysus Jan 2017 #35
ElementaryPenguin Jan 2017 #42
FSogol Jan 2017 #40

Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:03 PM

1. Or just to not be in lock step with the Rs

I think it would be worth a shot. I am a Rand Paul constituent.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:06 PM

2. RP was sure

The most reasonable of the bunch during the GOP debates. I like a lot of things about his father. If there are "mavericks" in that party - those guys are it.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:09 AM

37. All far too conservative to move, EP. RUBIO especially!

He was competing with Ted Cruz for the most extreme on the Republican primary stage, and I have him pegged as one of a number of possible conscienceless sociopaths in that lineup. Rubio seeks power and adopts whatever public positions will help him at the moment. And adopting a Democratic cloak would probably not help him with his Koch alliance backers. I hope.

My guess is Rand Paul's moves away from the party extremism are just part of a strategy to use that vacuum to move up in his party. McCaine's the only wild card, but a party leader abandoning his party rather than fighting for the GOP from within...?

But the general idea, of course. For sure our leadership is keeping a careful eye on the few moderate conservatives in congress for any signs that they might consider switching parties.

After all, Elizabeth Warren did back in the 1990s and has been a great asset. In fact, she's just been positioned to move in future up to top leadership.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:11 PM

3. Susan Collins from Maine is another one

 

I think there may be just enough moderate Republicans left who can save the country from Trump and a radical GOP. What would be beautiful would be if all the moderates grow so disgusted that they switch parties.

Two others are Ben Sasse and Jeff Flake that may stand up to the BS.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:19 PM

4. Collins spoke out in favor of Jeff Sessions

She might get more credit for being moderate than she deserves. She's up for re-election in 2018 and the Democrats should really try to get a good candidate to knock her out. Hang Trump around her neck as much as possible.

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Response to MrPurple (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:36 PM

7. Too bad...

Collins does seem like a pretty good prospect.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 08:50 AM

36. This is a (crack) pipe dream.

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Response to MrPurple (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:44 PM

10. They won't knock her out

 

And many Democrats in Maine like her. I'm guessing that she knows Sessions personally and that is why she would speak on his behalf. She will NOT support radical policy BS, though.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:48 PM

11. Sessions is extremely radical. And undeniably racist.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:01 PM

23. Since she knows him personally she may believe otherwise for whatever reason

 

Also, since she is from Maine, a state with practically no black people, racism is not going to be high on her radar. No Democrat in Maine will beat her. She is well liked and usually one of the first Republicans to come out with a rational voice when it's needed. People from Maine really support her, on both sides.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:12 AM

38. Good points. Plus, Sessions is likely to be approved anyway,

and if she believes he is, taking a losing stand that would cost her a great deal of political capital is probably doesn't seem like a good strategy.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 06:04 PM

18. I agree...

She certainly is no racist herself, though she may have had to work with a few (as most all of us have).

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:31 PM

5. Collins always talk a good game, but caves.

 

Look at her record

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:38 PM

8. I agree about Flake.

Good idea.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:11 PM

27. Yes, some of them recognized how dangerous he is early on

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:33 PM

6. You know the state of affairs is sad and downright scary when we're...

...counting on those folks to be reasonable and calling them "moderate."

The horror.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:39 PM

9. Isn't that the truth!!!

But that is where we're at.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:48 PM

12. McCain's 80 and just got another 6 years

So, if there's ever a time for him to stand for principle over party, this would be it.

I'm not sure how being up for re-election would affect Lindsey Graham. He could be worried about getting primaried by a pro Trump candidate in SC, which could happen if he stands up to Trump. That could possibly tone down his criticism.

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Response to MrPurple (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:50 PM

13. Graham is radically right wing. He just doesn't like Trump.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:56 PM

16. He hates Trump and Putin...

And that may be enough. If he gets primaried he can emphasis Trump's coddling of the Russians.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:56 PM

31. Graham supported McCain in '08.

 

The only scenario I can think of for Lindsay moving to I status would be if McCain said "screw it, I got nothing to lose now" pulled a Stafford himself, and put in a personal pitch for Lindsay to join him on "good of the nation" grounds.

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Response to MrPurple (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:53 PM

14. Definitely McCain's moment

He's not going to let Trump sell out America to the Russians, Trump disparaged him, and he's always promoted himself as a maverick. I think Lindsey Graham would follow McCain - and say the hell with it!

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:54 PM

15. Yeah, if they give up their seniority.....

 

..Sorry, but part of our problem is giving our most conservative members too much power and say and veto control over what we do as a party when in the majority. The last thing we need is to have any of those clowns running our party and calling the shots.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 06:01 PM

17. I'd say the LAST thing we need is to have Trump in control of all 3 branches of government...

We can try reclaim our party leadership tomorrow - let's just try to insure there'll be a tomorrow - and proceed from there .

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 06:05 PM

19. No.

Our best hope is not a new bunch of ultra right democrats.

Our best help is obstruction, filibustering, and grandstanding.

Do NOT let a single vote sneak by in the dead of night and burn them every chance we can get.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 06:12 PM

20. I appreciate your point, but we can do a helluva lot more obstruction as majority party -

heading committees and whatnot. A few members like that are not going to spoil the whole party - we've had blue dogs and dixiecrats, etc. This ain't going to be perfect - desperate measures for desperate times.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 06:15 PM

21. And I still say No.

If they want to join us in obstructing that is fine. But we should not invite these guys into the party. They are a big part of the problem.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 06:25 PM

22. Well...thanks for your thoughts

Admittedly, there would be some drawbacks...but I think you have to attack an enemy like Trump with whatever resources you can muster.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:15 AM

39. Yup. Though agree we absolutely would not want

some people in the party, the chance of strong conservatives moving over is nil anyway.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:08 PM

25. Stubborn purism is part of what elected Trump

 

Sorry, but I say welcome to ANYONE who wants to stop that orange rat bastard.

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Response to NoGoodNamesLeft (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 02:47 PM

41. I agree. We allied with Stalin to stop Hitler.

Late though it was. A handful of figures like this are not going to reverse all progressive policies in the Democratic party, for crying out loud. (though I do understand people's revulsion towards this suggestion - I'm not crazy about it either - but if these aren't desperate times...and the asshole hasn't even assumed power yet!)

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:10 PM

26. Yeah, we're talking about radical right wingers here. I welcome their opposition to Trump, though.

But they aren't Democrats and never will be.

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:05 PM

24. Doing those things won't stop jack shit. Dems will need some Republican votes.

 

EOM

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Response to kenfrequed (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:16 PM

29. I'm with you on that one


We have been the nice guys too long, and the Repubs have taken full advantage of every time we compromised.
Look what that has gotten us.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:12 PM

28. With their help, we should be stonger together to impeach trump.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2017, 08:24 PM

30. Depending on the legislation, I'm sure those will be people we work on.

 

Raise constitutional concerns with Paul, spending concerns with McCaine, etc. at the same time, they have built their image for times like this. Republicans will be sending some pork their way.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 02:26 AM

32. Not happening

They aren't even close to Democrats.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 05:03 AM

33. this is stupid

 

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 07:07 AM

34. lame.

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 08:46 AM

35. Jesus Christ. Nt

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Response to dionysus (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 02:52 PM

42. That's my exact comment every time I read some new horiffic Trump action!

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Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:16 AM

40. Fuck Rand Paul.

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