2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumYou don’t support our President because of an issue thats been around for 7 years?
Last edited Sat Jun 8, 2013, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)
Then its time for you to join the ranks of the republican party.. President Christie certainly will
curtail all electronic surveillance programs within 30 days of taking office..
If you dont think Tea Baggers, Right wing racists, Fundamentalist, Moderate Republicans, Xenophobic
Nationalists, Wall Street. Corporations and banks, MSM wont close ranks around Christie, you better think again.. He will be our next President..
Lets remind ourselves of the debate we had in 2006.. This link sums it up perfectly.
Just perfectly..
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/08/flashback-watch-this-2006-pbs-newshour-debate-on-the-nsas-phone-call-surveillance-program/
randr
(12,412 posts)Someone I could name could have stood up for our rights and removed this egregious breach of trust.
Now we will be subjects of whatever realm is chosen for us by the MSM.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)you HAVE to like it because, well, you know, SOMEONE ELSE COULD BE WORSE!!!!
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)How about a drive to privatize Medicare and S.S. Repealing anything Obama accomplished over 8 yrs.
Perhaps nominating 2 more Scalias? .........Worse?
Skittles
(153,160 posts)we are SICK of voting AGAINST people - how about working to ensure we actually ENTHUSIASTICALLY vote FOR someone? THAT would be nice. Or is that just TOO MUCH TO ASK ???
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)realistic chance? You are just asking for another Ralph Nader moment!!
Skittles
(153,160 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I have a broken bridge for sale, dirt cheap!
bornskeptic
(1,330 posts)You want someone who agrees with you on everything.I'd like someone who agrees with me on everything too, but I've known for many years that that was never going to happen.
villager
(26,001 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)think in black and white, do you?
You do not "have to like it".
Politicians will fail and will disappoint. Politics is contingent and no one can possibly accomplish what they say they will. So, failure and disappointment cannot be escaped.
No. you do not have to "like it"
I, certainly, do not expect people to "like it".
markiv
(1,489 posts)reminds me of a passage from Orwell's 'Animal Farm'
(Jones is the farmer the animals ran off in their revolution)
The mystery of where the milk went to was soon cleared up. It was mixed every day into the pigs' mash. The early apples were now ripening, and the grass of the orchard was littered with windfalls. The animals had assumed as a matter of course that these would be shared out equally; one day, however, the order went forth that all the windfalls were to be collected and brought to the harness?room for the use of the pigs. At this some of the other animals murmured, but it was no use. All the pigs were in full agreement on this point, even Snowball and Napoleon. Squealer was sent to make the necessary explanations to the others.
"Comrades!" he cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well?being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The wholemanagement and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would come back! Surely, comrades," cried Squealer almost pleadingly, skipping from side to side and whisking his tail, "surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?"
Now if there was one thing that the animals were completely certain of, it was that they did not want Jones back. When it was put to them in this light, they had no more to say. The importance of keeping the pigs in good health was all too obvious. So it was agreed without further argument that the milk and the windfall apples (and also the main crop of apples when they ripened) should be reserved for the pigs alone
Politicians can usually be relied upon:
to fail
to disappoint
to be hated.
to be lied about.
Frequently, accomplish all four.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)here is another: "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which
truth2power
(8,219 posts)In that case, one would support Obama no matter what he does because there's always a more dire scenario one could imagine. You are engaging in fear-mongering in order to muster for the President.
What President Obama is doing now is what's important. It stands on it's own merits, or lack thereof.
I have yet to see what anyone here would consider a deal-breaker where the President is concerned. I suspect that's because their loyalty to him is everlasting. That one would pledge undying loyalty to ANY person or ideology is ludicrous.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)YOU SAY IT WELL
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)A Chris Christie Presidency with at least 2 appointments to the S.C. is frightening.
The media message right now is overwhelming...There are a hell of a lot of low informed voters out
there who think this is Obamas program and problem... Dumb bells out there saying, I dont want him looking at me through my computer...or listening in on my calls.
If you think my examples are insane turn on Fox today!!
mimi85
(1,805 posts)At least this has put Benghazi, the IRS and the AP on the back burner. It's amazing how many people I've talked to about this - or attempted to - and I'd say 99% of them hadn't even heard about it, when I tried to explain, most of them had that look on their face that says "so"? They're just going about their lives.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Many many voters remember the last thing they see on T.V. and go into the booth and vote based on that recollection!
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02fisa.html?_r=1&
Truth
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Kinda narrows the field.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)corporate union busting, defending and expanding Patriot Act activities, abandoning any form of single payer health programs, not enforcing new banking regulations, nope can't see any deal breakers around this president Is fifty/fifty or less all we should hope for.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)seems to be the order of the day. He will never be forgiven for not being the liberal bastion some thought, and others hoped, he would be
While PRISM is kinda new, NSA and ECHELON has been around since the beginning of the Cold War, with Carnivore close behind.
But, never let the facts about gummint spying on us get in the way of a good rant.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)suckers, buster.
PSPS
(13,598 posts)"My president, right or wrong" is the currency of the simple minded. Instead of holding obama up for comparison to "someone even worse," how about expecting the president, whoever they are, to uphold proper American values. "Well, it's been going on for a long time anyway, so who cares?" Really? That's the new standard?
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)How long did it take for him to go after unions in N.J.?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)to go after teacher's unions?
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)And there are a few more like them under this Administration who are useless...
But you shouldnt conflate these idiots to Republican Govs. or Tea Bagger Reps.. If Christie wins he will
be indebted to these extremists..
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)both parties are proving themselves hostile to unions.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)premium
(3,731 posts)you can oppose a policy and still support him, we don't all walk in lockstep like the repubs do.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)But in fact you are giving MSM a huge hand in keeping the story that this is now Obamas program
alone, alive.... And that is crap!!
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)and we shouldn't want the program changed?
Because that would be crap. I don't give a rip about Obama personally, I just want programs that make sense and respect my liberties. This one, no matter who started it or how long it has been going on, isn't one of them.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)But realize that Tea bagger Republicans, Conservatives, Racists, Corporations, Healthcare Companies,
Wall Street and Banks are going to use this issue big time to sway peoples vote away from Dems. in the next two election cycles.. Things are changing very slowly for the better.
Medicaid dollars have now entered Cali. and I as well as many others are being helped immensely.
I dont want to give the right wing any more ammunition to undermine the good stuff which might happened by spewing lies about this situation.
Listen to Fox today and see how they are spinning this thing as Obamas ( which means Democratic party) personal program to spy on political enemies.. Fuck that, big time..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/07/1214548/-Community-health-centers-in-states-refusing-Medicaid-expansion-at-nbsp-risk
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)but Obama doesn't have any more elections to run and if necessary we can separate ourselves from him on this. Fortunately the Republicans are still acting like a bunch of horses' patooties on everything else, and also, outside the beltway and people like us, who actually pays attention to civil liberties? I bet many moderates are just fine with the (alleged) liberty for security swap.*
*I say "alleged" because of course these cretins have no proof that their obscene spying does any good at all.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)and I hate to loose a large block of voters who usually clump everything the president does to the party that brung him to the dance. That scares me..
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)But some do here.
-p
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)I don't think it's us that should be in the Republican party. It sounds like George Bush's parrot in here sometimes.
WITH US OR AGIN' US! WITH US OR AGIN' US! BRAWWWWK!
So basically we have no way to defend him on this, all the spin and halftruths going around fell through, so we're down to the whining about how No True Democrat would be so mean to Him. Right on schedule.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)Republicans over Democrats for his own administration lately.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)How's that been working out for us?
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)How about the House, Senate and Presidency all in one ball in 2016 wound up by two S.C. appointments.
See how that works out for you....Looking forward to that Voucher in order to buy your 2018 healthcare
package? Thats what scares the shit out of me.. Not because my cell phone is being used to contact my mother who is sick over seas 5 times a day..
By the way:: Warren 2016...
No more moderates.
I pick my fights carefully..
creon
(1,183 posts)I have no problem with Warren being nominated and elected.
But, if she is elected, she will disappoint millions. Presidents tend to do that.
If she is elected, she will be hated by millions. That comes with the job.
creon
(1,183 posts)someone who is liberal enough to pass muster with some people here - cannot be elected president.
I do not know what can be done about that.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Nobody should be surprised this is happening, we've known about it for years.
But not being surprised doesn't mean we shouldn't be disappointed in the president's lame ass effort to explain/excuse/justify it.
Cha
(297,221 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)I am not a robot. I think for myself. I generally support President Obama and I voted for him twice. But these revelations about NSA spying, while not necessarily new, stink to high heaven. I didn't vote for Obama thinking he would sign off on things like this.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)on our country.. The House, Senate and Presidency would be lost for at least 3 election cycles.
I think thats how much time it will take before the American people wake up..
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)effect another terrorist attack might have.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)kid brother.. Mainstream America loves that stuff. I doubt however that could ever work again..for any president who has the watch during a Terrorists Attack. Especially Liberals who for the last 40 years have been perceived as weak... Vietnam War.....McCarthy, Iranian Crisis...Carter, labeled the party
as weak when it comes to military affairs. And of course the aforementioned is all bullshit!
Iggo
(47,552 posts)Second, that word "support" gets thrown around a lot on this board. What exactly does it mean to you, at least as you used it in your subject line?
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)You dont support our president when you encourage MSM to continue covering a story which might lead to a take over of the 3 branches of govt, by Nov 2016.. by extremists..
I was reading some posts from the Magistrate last night and he stated that this is war and he wont give an inch to these idiots..
Many of us now have healthcare because of the influx of medicaid funds about to come in from the
Presidents plan...I now have a great plan because I only receive S.S@..62....I was paying Anthem $500
with a 7,000 deductible..Thats a savings of over $6,0000 a year. Life Changing!
Fear is not having a healthcare plan for 3 years which could make me homeless. That is real fear! having my cell phone monitored for statistical data only because I call Nigeria 5 times a day is certainly not in the same ball park..
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)extremists." Since this series of so-called scandals broke, and I agree it has been abetted by the MSM, President Obama's poll ratings have not suffered. The American people aren't that stupid. Hillary Clinton will wipe the floor with anyone they decide to put up.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)the right wing in general, conservatives, corporations, wall street and Banks..If things are not much better economically, he stands a good chance of defeating Hillary.
Besides Id rather see Elizabeth Warren as our nominee..
But what we dont need right now is a lot of banter on the internet by Dems, Progressives or Liberals
blaming Obama for the mess we are in with regards to electronic Surveillance .. Its dangerous...
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)He:
-Extended the Bush Tax Cuts
-Extended the "patriot act"
-Twice signed the NDAA with its section 1021 provision for the indefinite detention with neither trial nor representation of US citizens
-Fought in court to have section 1021 reinstated after Chris Hedges etc. managed to get it struck down as unConstitutional
-Did not veto the 5-year extension of FISA
-Ordered or allowed more than a year of domestic terrorism against the Occupy movement, including FBI and DHS spying and attacks
And fuck the republicans too.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)probably be asked to become a Blogger for the Daily Caller..
By the way he passed a healthcare bill that has added an influx of Medicaid dollars that had already
helped thousands of people.. I know this is a fact because I now have healthcare coverage because of it.. I live in California, by the way..
He ended, Dont ask dont tell...
He saved the American Auto Manufacturers ....
as a matter of fact....
Obama has overhauled the food safety system
Advanced women's rights in the work place
Ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) in our military
Stopped defending DOMA in court.
Passed the Hate Crimes bill.
Appointed two pro-choice women to the Supreme Court.
Expanded access to medical care and provided subsidies for people who can't afford it.
Expanded the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP)
Fixed the preexisting conditions travesty [and rescissions] in health insurance.
Invested in clean energy.
Overhauled the credit card industry, making it much more consumer-friendly.
While Dodd-Frank bill was weak in many respects, it was still an extremely worthwhile start at re-regulating the financial sector.
He created a Elizabeth Warren's dream agency: The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
He's done a lot for veterans
He got help for people whose health was injured during the clean-up after the 9/11 attacks.
None of these things were priorities for Republicans.
By the way, I agree with your list entirely.. but this is war..And I dont want to give one inch to the tea bagging right wing extremists who will moderate a bit and join the Corporations, Wall Street and Bankers in order to take back the Presidency.. President Christi and the House and Senate, plus 2 more Anthony Scalia type S.C judges.. Scares the shit out of me. So Im gonna tone down my anger towards Obama!
You should too!
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/corporate-profits-have-grown-171-percent-under-obama-highest-rate-1900
"Average annual corporate profit growth under Obama is the highest since 1900, whereas profit growth declined during both Bush presidencies. As a share of the economy, corporate profits have never been higher.
Unfortunately, this profit deluge has not been shared by workers, whose wages as a percentage of the economy have fallen to all-time lows. Workers also got dinged by the recent increase in the payroll tax, which was large enough to wipe out a minimum wage increase in some states."
8 Huge Corporate Handouts in the Fiscal Cliff Bill
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/8-huge-corporate-handouts-fiscal-cliff-bill
"Throughout the months of November and December, a steady stream of corporate CEOs flowed in and out of the White House to discuss the impending fiscal cliff. Many of them, such as Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, would then publicly come out and talk about how modest increases of tax rates on the wealthy were reasonable in order to deal with the deficit problem. What wasnt mentioned is what these leaders wanted, which is whats known as tax extenders, or roughly $205B of tax breaks for corporations. With such a banal name, and boring and difficult to read line items in the bill, few political operatives have bothered to pay attention to this part of the bill. But it is critical to understanding what is going on.
5) Subsidies for Goldman Sachs Headquarters Sec. 328 extends 'tax exempt financing for York Liberty Zone,' which was a program to provide post-9/11 recovery funds. Rather than going to small businesses affected, however, this was, according to Bloomberg, 'little more than a subsidy for fancy Manhattan apartments and office towers for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America Corp.' Michael Bloomberg himself actually thought the program was excessive, so thats saying something. According to David Cay Johnstons The Fine Print, Goldman got $1.6 billion in tax free financing for its new massive headquarters through Liberty Bonds."
The Untouchables: How the Obama administration protected Wall Street from prosecutions
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/23/untouchables-wall-street-prosecutions-obama
Yes, Virginia, the Rich Continue to Get Richer: the Top 1% Got 121% of Income Gains Since 2009
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/02/yes-virginia-the-rich-continue-to-get-richer-the-1-got-121-of-income-gains-since-2009.html
U.S. banks in 2012 post highest profits since '06
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/26/us-usa-fdic-earnings-idUSBRE91P0N820130226?utm_source=Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=de8376aab3-DD_2_27_132_27_2013&utm_medium=email#.US5jjkXSlU8.twitter
This Years Subsidy to Wall Street = the Amount of This Years Sequester Cuts
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/this-years-subsidy-to-wall-street-the-amount-of-this-years-sequester-cuts.html#.US_yiFwwnHY.facebook
Dont Blink, or Youll Miss Another Bailout
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100466032
America faces more than a dozen deadlines, all caused by billionaires and wealth transfer
http://americablog.com/2013/02/america-faces-more-than-a-dozen-deadlines-all-caused-by-billionaires-and-wealth-transfer.html
Bank Bailout 2: Obama Lets Mortgage Abusers Off the Hook
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/02/09-5
Visualization of wealth inequality in America:
&feature=player_embedded
And by the way, none of the items you posted appears to address my concern about the NSA destruction of the 4th Amendment, continuing through Obama's time in office. And as an American, I have grave fucking concern about the other points I posted.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)As I said the man is flawed, But who the hell do you think is gonna fix it..Ralph Nader? Bernie Sanders?
Alan Grayson? Elizabeth Warren who will be attached to all of Obamas faults?
Nah, Chris Christi will fix it all.
Youre world is far from reality and if you keep up the good work... Well find ourselves at the mercy of
a bunch of Oligarchs, who will speed up our decent to hell.
At least Obama has put this descent on pause... Give me a break.. The guy does not possess a wand..
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)You may have MISSED IN MY LAST POST where I listed a great number of links regarding Obama's direct support and "get out of jail free" coddling of the very oligarchs and plutonomists you mention. The descent is in part because of Obama's actions, directly.
Obama did NOTHING to stop or even slow down programs such as PRISM and organizations such as the NSA. He's empowered them through the NDAA section 1021, HR347, extending the "patriot act", etc.
All of that, plus domestic terrorism against the Occupy movement. Who needs enemies with a government like this?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Any post that starts out trying to make it about Obama ends up being in the propaganda category. It never fails.
The Third Way has used these "circle the wagons" arguments for years now to excuse some pretty egregious betrayals. However, I think they sorely underestimate the anger they are creating now by trying to use the same old, tired manipulations to try to excuse an assault as grave and massive as government surveillance of its own citizens.
People resent being lied to.
People resent being spied upon.
And people especially resent treated as though they were stupid and called upon to rally, out of sheer partisan loyalty, around an assault on their own Constitutional protections.