2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes it make sense or is it fair for Senator Durbin to blame President Obama
for not informing the Senate about the NSA data collection on the basis that "Very few lawmakers avail themselves of such briefings. . . ."
NO!
GIVE ME A BREAK! What is Obama supposed to do to make sure they're informed? Send guards to drag them into the briefings?
If they wanted to know, they'd attend the briefings or they'd read the classified documents they're sent. Clearly, Senators like Durbin just want to complain.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/us/politics/officials-say-congress-was-fully-briefed-on-surveillance.html
Senior Obama administration officials, including the directors of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and of national intelligence, have held 13 classified hearings and briefings for members of Congress since 2009 to explain the broad authority they say they have to sweep up electronic records for national security purposes, a senior administration official said Saturday.
The administration, by disclosing the briefings, sought to push back on claims by Democrats and Republicans in Congress that they were either not aware of programs to mine vast amounts of Internet data and business telephone records or were insufficiently briefed on the details.
Lawmakers said that what they knew was vague and broad and that strict rules of classification prevented them from truly debating the programs or conducting proper oversight.
In separate but identical letters sent on Oct. 19, 2011, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich told two of Congresss most outspoken critics of the efforts, Senators Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado, both Democrats, that in December 2009 and February 2011 the Justice Department and intelligence agencies provided a classified document to Congress describing the surveillance efforts in detail.
SNIP
But Senator Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, the Senates No. 2 Democrat, draws a distinction between the holding of such briefings and the informed consent of Congress. Very few lawmakers avail themselves of such briefings, he suggested, and only the most senior leaders are kept fully abreast of intelligence activities.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Fuck Durbin.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Congressional oversight. Don't you think that was at least somewhat deceptive in its description? It was weasel words.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And, to attend hearings and meetings and avail themselves of any and all disclosed material.
It may be a distinction without a difference, but I think the burden is on congress and not on the administration, provided the admins didn't do anything to hamper the oversight.
In reality, there's enough blame to go around all three branches, no?
dkf
(37,305 posts)If they wanted full congressional oversight surely there's a way to address the whole body?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)...but I expect that it does not.
For all the various defense, energy, economic, etc., matters of critical national interest, for full disclosure to occur to all 535 would be quite a work load, and they don't work that hard.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Senate:
2013-2014
Dianne Feinstein, California
Chairman Saxby Chambliss, Georgia
Vice Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV, West Virginia
Richard Burr, North Carolina
Ron Wyden, Oregon
James E. Risch, Idaho
Barbara A. Mikulski, Maryland
Daniel Coats, Indiana
Mark Udall, Colorado
Marco Rubio, Florida
Mark Warner, Virginia
Susan Collins, Maine
Martin Heinrich, New Mexico
Tom Coburn, Oklahoma
Angus King, Maine
Harry Reid, Nevada, Ex Officio
Mitch McConnell, Kentucky, Ex Officio
Carl Levin, Michigan, Ex Officio
James Inhofe, Oklahoma, Ex Officio
http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/memberscurrent.html
House:
Mike Rogers, Chairman
8th District of Michigan
Mac Thornberry
13th District of Texas
Jeff Miller
1st District of Florida
Mike Conaway
11th District of Texas
Peter King
3rd District of New York
Frank LoBiondo
2nd District of New Jersey
Devin Nunes
21st District of California
Lynn Westmoreland
3rd District of Georgia
Michele Bachmann
6th District of Minnesota
Thomas J Rooney
16th District of Florida
Joe Heck
3rd District of Nevada
Mike Pompeo
4th District of Kansas
HPSCI Minority Members
C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger, Ranking Member
2nd District of Maryland
Mike Thompson
1st District of California
Jan Schakowsky
9th District of Illinois
Jim Langevin
2nd District of Rhode Island
Adam Schiff
29th District of California
Luis Gutierrez
4th District of Illinois
Ed Pastor
7th District of Arizona
Jim Himes
4th District of Connecticut
Terri Sewell
7th District of Alabama
http://intelligence.house.gov/about/hpsci-minority-members
So this is the totality of the "fully briefed" members. All 40 of them.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Can't they all read? And if there were some documents that the Intelligence Committees chose not to share that should have been shared, shouldn't they be complaining about that, rather than about Obama?
"In separate but identical letters sent on Oct. 19, 2011, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich told two of Congresss most outspoken critics of the efforts, Senators Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado, both Democrats, that in December 2009 and February 2011 the Justice Department and intelligence agencies provided a classified document to Congress describing the surveillance efforts in detail.
"The letter said the House and Senate Intelligence Committees had been briefed on these operations multiple times and have had access to copies of the classified orders and opinions of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Members of the committee were invited to share the information with other lawmakers."
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)but some of them didn't bother reading the documents or attending the meetings.
That's not Obama's fault. The program got as much oversight as the individual Senators felt like giving it.
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)for Durbin to blame Obama for Durbin not doing his own job.
<<< Becoming more and more necessary hereabouts.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)That's become a standard joke between my husband and I. Whenever anything goes wrong, we both yell, "Thanks, OBAMA!"
dkf
(37,305 posts)This supposed congressional oversight is beginning to look like more BS too. GOD when does it end.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)give a shit or excuse it. Sad that we are so afraid of terror
dkf
(37,305 posts)That can't be good. There's always so much more to the story.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)they're secrets. It's a nice little setup to stop debate.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)the announcement of the briefings?
They have brains, don't they? They should use them.
savalez
(3,517 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)dsc
(52,160 posts)Is this a case of what lawyers often do doing discovery where they send boxes and boxes of documents and burried somewhere in all those boxes are the one or two relevant to the case or is this a case where there are meetings that are always relevent and always short. My bet is we are talking something in between.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)He simply said that Senators didn't go to the briefings that the administration officials gave, and acted as if that was Obama's fault somehow.
dsc
(52,160 posts)Ellison was on ABC and made it fairly clear that these breifings weren't exactly intended to be convenient to the Congress
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)and who was just sandbagging and not doing their job reading stuff? I tend to think Senator Wyden does know what's going on given his continued objections about surveillance.
My take is Congress is just flat out not doing their work. They should know what's going on and if they don't feel they are getting answers they should be asking for them. After all they are direct representatives of the people of their states for fucksakes (with an approval rating so low a dead rat in a pool would be more popular).