2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLiberals Need to Learn to Say No
Bernhard SchlinkThe legal theorist Richard Weisberg argues that rather than castigate conservatives for their intransigence, liberals ought to become more infliexible themselves.
The Latin proverb Times Change and We Change With Them used to be memorized by generations of students of Latin. Today its truth seems more obvious than ever before. The progress of science, the spread of the internet, the globalization of business and finance, the transformation of the working environment, the diversification of familial structures, the threats of terrorismhow might we cope with these changes without being adaptable and flexible? Given the speed of change, yesterdays experiences and beliefs seem inadequate to meeting tomorrows challenges, unless we constantly negotiate and compromise them with new demands.
The liberal mindset is particularly suited to flexibility and compromise. It lives with the heritage of the enlightenment, its idea that all human beings are rational and can find rational solutions for their problems and conflicts, its advocacy of tolerance, its affinity to relativism, its turn against dogmatism. And the liberal mindset is often irritated and even offended when it encounters others who are intransigent, inflexible, unwilling to compromise.
Richard Weisbergs In Praise of Intransigence: The Perils of Flexibility comes as a surprise and a provocationand is the right book at the right moment. It comes as a surprise because the author is himself an heir of the enlightenment and defines his political and moral position left of center. It is a provocation because it turns common liberal notions of whats right and whats wrong upside down. And it is the right book at the right moment, because today the political and moral position left of center does not run the risk of being too intransigent, but rather of being too compromising. In times of too much intransigence, we need a call for flexibility. In our times of too much flexibility, Weisbergs call for intransigence reminds us of our duty to hold on to whats right.
Weisberg begins with the present, with conflicts over abortion, over the teaching of creationism in school, over gun control, and over the use of torture, unlimited detention, and targeted killing in the fight against terrorism. He describes the lefts tendency to attack the rights unwillingness to compromise instead of answering the rights substantive arguments forcefully with its own substantive arguments. Instead of battling over beliefs, behavior, and politics, the left engages in battles over the willingness or unwillingness to compromise. And in proving its own willingness to compromise, the left, particularly in times of emergency, sells out its best and deepest values. Weisbergs American experience matches my German experience: he was as stunned as I was to watch colleagues abandon the taboo on torture because they felt that hard times justified hard means.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/10/liberals-need-to-learn-to-say-no.html
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Stop voting for weak appeasers and DINOs. They're half the reason we're in this mess.
awake
(3,226 posts)I do have a big problem with week kneed, appeasing whimsy ass Demarcates who cave to Republican pressure and do not back our president
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The only dems who cave to republican pressure are the dinos like our president. Otoh, the ones who oppose him are the real dems who are against endless war, union busting, school privatization, fracking, TPP, drone murder, etc.
Do you really believe everyone should support him on TPP???
awake
(3,226 posts)For example while I would like a single payer health care Obama Care is way better than what we had, but too many Democrats are afraid to support it out of fear.
samsingh
(17,602 posts)to defend their beliefs and to make liberal laws
corkhead
(6,119 posts)Why didnt Maher save his money? Or better yet, fund a group or a writer or an artist who promotes ideas he actually agrees with? Because he, like tens of millions of other liberals, are stuck in the two-party trap.
The relationship between liberals and Democrats is dysfunctional and enabling, abused pathetics sucking up to cruel abusers. Progressives like Maher are like a kid with two rotten parents. The dad drinks and hits him; the mom drinks less and hits him less. The best call is to run away from home instead, most children in that situation will draw closer to their mothers.
http://rall.com/2014/07/03/syndicated-column-at-some-point-progressives-need-to-grow-a-pair-and-stop-having-anything-to-do-with-the-democratic-party
littlemissmartypants
(22,852 posts)We can and do draw our lines in the sand.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)the last six years of Reid and Pelosi prove that.
littlemissmartypants
(22,852 posts)Shine a light.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,852 posts)A disappointment in many ways. Harry pipes up occasionally. But they all look old and tired too often.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But more, the OP neglects to describe the inevitable result of his "inflexible/unwilling to compromise" strategy in real life (of governing) ... Anarchy, as government breaks down further, since there is no way to find the common, or acceptable, ground upon which to govern.
It sounds good and makes for the appearance of toughness (a trait that has bled into the liberal psyche); but to what end?
littlemissmartypants
(22,852 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The hard stand against the IWar? Against tax cuts for the wealthy? Saving Social Security? Helping our vets?
What hard stands that liberals have taken don't you approve of?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The republicans have taken over by holding their ground on everything. 1sbm's post is completely absurd. It's the end result of worshipping someone who is supposed to work for you.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)And I won't argue. When we get down to little left to defend we have to draw the line and tell the bastards to fuck off. I am inflexible on a lot of things, like destroying SS and/or Medicare. Sorry, no compromise.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)There is no common ground with lying, criminal, war monger torturers.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)NealK
(1,893 posts)N... N... No! No! No! Ah, it feels good.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)put his theory to test is his marriage and get back to us.
We can all meet up at the local singles bar ... then, we can watch him apply that to his establishing other relationships.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)Also, you've had your way for twenty years and the shit is not really working for most of us and seems to be on a rather intolerable trajectory with ever less ability to change course.
No, appeasement and assimilation will not carry the day better chaos than cruel and wicked order based on soulless extraction.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Your analogy is cogent
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I've NOT had my way ... ever, in this society.
But that said ... we have two choices in governance in this/our form of government ... work together or get nothing done.
We can pretend that the OP's theory is a viable political strategy; but in the real world, it leads to none governance ... and that vacuum benefits only the 1%.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)It's really quite pathetic.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)Yeah, let's just turn "common liberal notions of whats right and whats wrong upside down". Yeah, that's the ticket.
Throw the baby out with the bath water.
Clever.
No! I am a liberal. I know how to say no.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)they even made a run at that. The few things we have gained didn't come from being flexible.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)A whole bunch.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)It shouldn't even be a matter of opinion. It is an entirely black and white issue. It was an impeachable offense.
If Republicans are so awful, stop telling us that we need to do more things they want.
If Republicans aren't that awful, stop pestering all of us about how important elections are.
We can't run on a platform that amounts to "That party is full of awful people that want to destroy the world and everything in it." then turn around and do whatever they want us to do so we look reasonable. It doesn't make us look reasonable, it makes us look weak and stupid.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)... move further right, we need to move half-way again. How is standing up for traditional Democratic Party principles ever going to inspire voters? Much better that we abandon them in search of the mythical "moderate Republican".
Cosmocat
(14,583 posts)is that the "middle" subscribes to this mindless "they are all the same" thing even when the republicans are absolute, 100 percent jackasses and dems (the pols and establishment) are cowering in a corner afraid of their own shadows.
They get the stink of being intransient even when they aren't.
I keep noting this, our focus is on just how extraordinarily horrible Rs are, but just the same, Democrats are all but worthless right now.
We have a Democratic President and because Rs scream like Banshees, Ds have left him out there all alone for all but a few moments of his entire tenure.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)the real differences in the parties and efforts to reduce them in actuality have borne the fruit of blowback.
I don't get the anger and frustration that folks are confused when that was the original intent. Did we think only the right leaning would be deceived? I don't get it.
Cosmocat
(14,583 posts)it is about being scared, frankly. Scared of the labels, scared of the anger.
ACA is an example. Democrats should have OWNED it, there was no other play. Fight for it and take a stand on it. Instead, they barely managed to get it passed then immediately cowered in a corner while republicans threw every bit of shit they could grab against the wall about it and while the results have been fairly decent and most everyone who HAS it likes it, the entire country thinks it is the worst thing ever.
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
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