HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Bernie may be more of a D...

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:21 PM

Bernie may be more of a Democrat than the Democrats.

He is talking about issues that at one time formed the core of the Democratic ideal. If you read some old speeches by Franklin D. Roosevelt and other New Deal Democrats, you'll see that Bernie has come back to that core message; it is a message that saved America from going Communist in 1933, and created a powerful middle class that helped this nation become great. It created a 'great prosperity' from about 1950 to 1980 when the deterioration began.

So, you see, if you take a little longer view of history, you will see that beginning in the 1980s, the Democratic Party began its evolution toward the right as the Republicans 'evolved' even further right.

In the context of history, Obama and Clinton are what used to be called 'Eisenhower Republicans.' In fact, if you read Ike's brilliant 1963 essay, "Why I'm a Republican," and compare what he says in it, you'll see that Obama and Clinton are a little to the right of the ideas espoused therein, particularly on so-called 'free trade.'

So, what I'd say to you is that in Bernie, we have a reversal of the destructive neoliberal/neoconservative 'evolution' of Dems throughout the 80s, 90s, and 00s. Bernie is taking us back to the New Deal, which is basically a set of policies to strengthen the American middle class. Bernie does one better, though. He's got a good platform on racism and reform of the correctional system.

This is why so many of us are responding to Bernie. The American people are angry at how the game has been rigged against us, at how hard it is to get ahead now, at how dim the futures of our children are compared to ours. We are ripe for another New Deal - a Real Deal where our interests are once again put front and center.

119 replies, 7512 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 119 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie may be more of a Democrat than the Democrats. (Original post)
PatrickforO Aug 2015 OP
RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #1
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #66
Live and Learn Aug 2015 #84
cali Aug 2015 #85
billhicks76 Aug 2015 #105
dflprincess Aug 2015 #106
L0oniX Aug 2015 #111
yurbud Aug 2015 #112
dorkzilla Aug 2015 #2
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #3
emsimon33 Aug 2015 #13
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #17
MrMickeysMom Aug 2015 #22
RKP5637 Aug 2015 #53
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #63
Fawke Em Aug 2015 #75
jwirr Aug 2015 #90
Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #92
L0oniX Aug 2015 #107
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #36
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #62
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #67
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #69
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #72
cali Aug 2015 #88
L0oniX Aug 2015 #110
LineLineLineReply ~
L0oniX Aug 2015 #108
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #4
cantbeserious Aug 2015 #5
emsimon33 Aug 2015 #10
N_E_1 for Tennis Aug 2015 #48
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #65
Indepatriot Aug 2015 #78
bvar22 Aug 2015 #96
arlington.mass Aug 2015 #98
fbc Aug 2015 #6
wendylaroux Aug 2015 #7
dorkzilla Aug 2015 #8
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #68
Fawke Em Aug 2015 #76
MrMickeysMom Aug 2015 #81
L0oniX Aug 2015 #109
emsimon33 Aug 2015 #11
L0oniX Aug 2015 #56
emsimon33 Aug 2015 #9
rusty quoin Aug 2015 #12
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #70
Armstead Aug 2015 #14
yourout Aug 2015 #15
WillyT Aug 2015 #16
MissDeeds Aug 2015 #18
short circuit Aug 2015 #19
Post removed Aug 2015 #71
truebluegreen Aug 2015 #20
donf Aug 2015 #29
LovingA2andMI Aug 2015 #21
Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #23
glinda Aug 2015 #24
AgingAmerican Aug 2015 #25
SoapBox Aug 2015 #26
Fairgo Aug 2015 #27
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #28
libdem4life Aug 2015 #51
slipslidingaway Aug 2015 #30
Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #93
JDPriestly Aug 2015 #31
99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #32
Puzzledtraveller Aug 2015 #33
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #34
PatrickforO Aug 2015 #38
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #39
BlueJazz Aug 2015 #113
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #114
Milliesmom Aug 2015 #35
Post removed Aug 2015 #37
Michigan-Arizona Aug 2015 #40
mak3cats Aug 2015 #41
Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #42
jtuck004 Aug 2015 #43
navarth Aug 2015 #64
PatrickforO Aug 2015 #91
jtuck004 Aug 2015 #94
PatrickforO Aug 2015 #115
jtuck004 Aug 2015 #116
PatrickforO Aug 2015 #117
jtuck004 Aug 2015 #118
AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #44
Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #45
BeanMusical Aug 2015 #46
Vinca Aug 2015 #47
Scuba Aug 2015 #49
NorthCarolina Aug 2015 #50
RKP5637 Aug 2015 #52
cyberswede Aug 2015 #54
RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #55
rhett o rick Aug 2015 #57
Triana Aug 2015 #58
MisterP Aug 2015 #59
lewebley3 Aug 2015 #60
Indepatriot Aug 2015 #79
nxylas Aug 2015 #95
DirkGently Aug 2015 #61
moondust Aug 2015 #73
Lunabell Aug 2015 #74
cui bono Aug 2015 #77
Joe Chi Minh Aug 2015 #80
PeteSelman Aug 2015 #82
valerief Aug 2015 #83
Live and Learn Aug 2015 #86
George II Aug 2015 #87
d_legendary1 Aug 2015 #97
SunSeeker Aug 2015 #99
George II Aug 2015 #101
d_legendary1 Aug 2015 #102
SunSeeker Aug 2015 #103
George II Aug 2015 #100
d_legendary1 Aug 2015 #104
tblue Aug 2015 #89
John Poet Aug 2015 #119

Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:30 PM

1. K & R! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:57 PM

66. FDR was a rich trust fund baby: Sanders people would have rejected him: HIllary is FDR's legacy

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:24 PM

84. That was hillarious (misspelling intentional)!

It was satire, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:24 PM

85. Baloney. you are truly without a clue

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 08:03 PM

105. Hillary?

 

You gotta be kidding. Just because they were both wealthy trust fund kids doesn't mean they were similar democrats. The Clintons have colluded with the Bushes. FDR was a sworn enemy of guys like Prescott Bush and others who planned a coup d'état in the 30s. It's irrelevant anyway because times are different. We like Teddy Roosevelt's anti-trust campaign but not his racism or imperialism. The fact is Hillary isn't for real. She serves the military industrial complex and the NSA spying police state and it's wretched Drug War that has destroyed more families than any other thing in recent history. It's the biggest sham and shame perpetrated on our country and the Clintons and Bushes were instrumental in designing and implementing it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 08:22 PM

106. I'm a Sanders person

I was also a supporter of Ted Kennedy and am a big supporter of Minnesota governor Mark Dayton - trust fund babies whose heads and hearts were/are in the right place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:18 PM

111. It's a shame they aren't learning US history like they used to.

 

....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:20 PM

112. What does FDR being rich have to do with his policies?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:33 PM

2. K&R!!! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:41 PM

3. Brilliant!



And Bernie's record fighting for the rights of women, lgbt people and other minorities is impeccable. I have no doubt he'll continue to do the same as POTUS.

Anyone who paints him as a threat to the Democratic party cares more about party loyalty than the people it's supposed to represent.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:00 PM

13. He is a threat to the Third Way, Neoliberals in the Democratic Party

Obama threw out Dean and the 50-state strategy organization as soon as he could because the party fears grassroots. The Democratic Party leadership sold the people out years ago. We want our Party back and Bernie is our best hope. The Third Way, Neoliberal "Democrats" need to either start a third party or declare themselves the Republicans that they are and take back the Republican Party from the crazies!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emsimon33 (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:11 PM

17. We need to keep pushing to the left, not falling back to the right.

Bernie is appealing to people on both sides of the aisle without sacrificing his principles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emsimon33 (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:21 PM

22. Totally agree… How soon people forget...

I swear, there are a lot of people walking around in a confused fog on the history of actual history. I believe the controlled message of the 1% has worked very nicely on these people. They're so asleep…

Neoliberalism… Now, the connection of these ideas with the sleeping masses are what a REAL Democrat ought to be paying attention to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:17 AM

53. Exactly!!! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:54 PM

63. FDR was a rich man: He was the 1% of the !%: Sanders people would hate FDR

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #63)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:54 PM

75. No he wouldn't.

FDR believed in paying his fair share. That's all Bernie wants out of the corporations and the 1 percent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #63)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:42 PM

90. Is that why the older members of DU love FDR so much? We remember.

You need to go back and read history. FDR was rich and the rich called him a traitor because he stood with the people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #63)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:44 PM

92. The Second Bill of Rights by Franklin D Roosevelt...

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

FDR was born a rich man, but was in love with the Common Man.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #63)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:11 PM

107. So you think all the 1% from back then are just like the oligarchy today? Wow.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to emsimon33 (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:36 AM

36. The "Third Way" can't WAIT to get in to purge the Liberals from DC who followed Obama....

 

They've worked really hard to win over Wall Street to accept that Democrats can "work with them" to have it all undone now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:52 PM

62. FDR was a rich man, a Trust baby: Sanders would people would hate FDR: (even a Mama's boy)

 




FDR would be coporatist: Sanders people could not believe he
was for the people because of all his money ties.


Sanders people are loyal to idealouge they are not loyal Dem,
Sanders people are the ones that helped Nader take out Gore.

Hillary is FDR legacy: a loyal Dem for 30 years, a smart crafty politican
working for all of American's.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:57 PM

67. LMAO!

You're just a fountain of propaganda, aren't you?

I actually feel sorry for you.

It must suck - having to survive on canned talking points you scrounged up in the gutters of DU, never having a thought of your own.

Repeating the same memes over and over again like a mantra.

Poor thing.

There, there. I won't let the mean Bernie people get you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #67)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:00 PM

69. Just the truth: FDR is everything Sanders people would reject: Hillary is FDR legacy

 




Hillary is a loyal Dem: She has been in the fight: while
Sanders sat in the Senate for a one party state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #69)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:03 PM

72. Shhhh. It's okay.

Everything's going to be all right.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #69)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:28 PM

88. utter and complete nonsense

 

I hate to burst your bubble but I don't oppose Hillary because she's wealthy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #69)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:15 PM

110. Bwahahahah ridiculous LMFAO

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:12 PM

108. ~

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:42 PM

4. Brilliant!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:45 PM

5. No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

Always Remember That Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Are The Real Enemy Of The People.

The Establishment Parties Are Merely The Public Muscle Of The Enemy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:55 PM

10. "Public Muscle of the Enemy"--well said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:59 AM

48. And as I like to point out...

the lesser of two evils, is still evil.

Go Bernie!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:56 PM

65. FDR was a corporation evil by your def: He has the 1% you would have hated him

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #65)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:23 PM

78. Try as you might, there's no takers for that bait...

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #65)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:15 PM

96. BS

Being wealthy is not a sin.
What one decides to do with it makes a difference,
and we ALL know what Bernie does,
and how much lucre the Clinton's have amassed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:18 PM

98. well stated

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:47 PM

6. Republicans have gone full lunatic, but many democrats have gone full republican

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fbc (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:51 PM

7. word nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fbc (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:51 PM

8. Hear, hear!

Well said!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dorkzilla (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:58 PM

68. No, no not well: FDR was a rich man: 1% person: HIllary is his legacy: She is a fighter

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #68)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:59 PM

76. Seems someone let in a Myna bird. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fawke Em (Reply #76)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:30 PM

81. ...

I'm tempted to link the Myna bird to historical accounts, but if they're not willing to read history, what's the use?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #68)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:14 PM

109. LMFAO

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fbc (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:57 PM

11. What I have been saying for years

Also, if our elected officials do not like being beholden to lobbyists and big money, they could have long ago had public financing of elections and limited the influence of lobbyists as well as the revolving door.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fbc (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:39 AM

56. ^^^this^^^

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:55 PM

9. K&R and a big DUH!

The Democratic Party has been taken over by Third Way, Neoliberal "Democrats" who are little more than what was once moderate Republicans.

Bernie is the first presidential candidate in years who walks the walk and talks the talk of a true Democrat and has the voting history to prove it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:58 PM

12. I agree, and so does Thom Hartmann. These are our real values as a party.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rusty quoin (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:01 PM

70. Thom Hartmann for gets to tell you FDR was a rich man: Hillary is FDr legacy: not Sanders.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:02 PM

14. Kudos, great statement

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:03 PM

15. I think that is a given.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:05 PM

16. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

 


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:11 PM

18. Excellent post

 

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:12 PM

19. The sooner the Clinton supporters get it, the better chances for Bernie

 

because by then if they don't understand why we're working with Bernie, then they aren't part of the political revolution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to short circuit (Reply #19)


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:18 PM

20. Hear, hear!

 

The Bernie's-not-really-a-Democrat meme is such BS; the Democrats aren't really Democrats imo, and haven't been for decades. Bernie is an FDR Democrat (minus the racist bits).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to truebluegreen (Reply #20)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:50 PM

29. You're absolutely right!

In the last three decades the political center has been pulled so far to the right in this country that many people who wear the label "Democrat" don't seem to remember what it once stood for. Fortunately, the American people are realizing how desperately they need those values and the policies that spring from them, and they don't particularly care about the label. And that is why Bernie is gaining so much momentum.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:19 PM

21. K/R!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:21 PM

23. You convinced me!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:25 PM

24. THAT and the environment is why he gets my vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:34 PM

25. And that's really it

 

Most of Bernies positions are standard traditional Democratic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:35 PM

26. Bravo!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:43 PM

27. Evolving is more than change...

Evolution is movement to a superior construct. It requires work over time...a brave discourse, and guiding set of principles. What we have seen over recent decades is the devolution that follows when principles are abandoned for expediency. "Just-in-time evolution" is ideological camouflage; hard to know what lies beneath the surface.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fairgo (Reply #27)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:45 PM

28. "Just-in-time evolution"!

That is PERFECT!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fairgo (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:47 AM

51. Just-in-in-time evolution...pretty well covers it. My Dad used to say,

 

if someone can change your mind, then someone else can change it back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:50 PM

30. "We are ripe for another New Deal - a Real Deal where our interests are once again put front and ..

center"



You hit the nail on the head

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to slipslidingaway (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:48 PM

93. And A Good Deal for the 99%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:56 PM

31. Brilliant. Thank you. K&R.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:10 AM

32. Yep. Bernie's taking us back to where we took a wrong turn

 

so we can actually start making real progress.

Thanks for your OP.. I totally agree. In fact I've often said on DU that it's telling
how it's taking an Independent Socialist to remind the Democratic Party of what
a real Democrat looks and acts like.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:15 AM

33. Exactly!

Well said. A good cohesive explanation of where we are at and how we got here. I have been arriving at the same conclusions but I am not as articulate. Thanks for the post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:18 AM

34. Almost 70 recs in less than 2 hours?

And on a Saturday night?

You really struck a chord!

Congratulations!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #34)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:16 AM

38. LOL I guess! But you remember you said I should post this, so we made a good chord.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #38)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:18 AM

39. Beautiful music!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:29 PM

113. FDR was a rich man, a Trust baby: Sanders would people would hate FDR

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Damn, for a few posts there, I thought I was in the movie "Groundhog Day"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueJazz (Reply #113)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:33 PM

114. LMAO!

You got me!

I saw the title in my posts and was like you gotta be kidding me...

Groundhog Day - exactly!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:19 AM

35. Tom Hartmann said he may be our FDR

 

The video was posted on here a few days ago, it came from Daily Kos, just in case anyone missed it....



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/08/1400337/-Bernie-Sanders-could-be-the-next-FDR

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:49 AM

40. K&R n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:27 AM

41. K & R!!!

Both to the post and to the crickets...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:47 AM

42. Well said, PatrickforO, I believe you nailed it!

Thanks for the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:25 AM

43. "and created a powerful middle class " < Uh, using black folk for no pay helped with that too, eh?

 

Blowing the fuck out of the rest of Europe and Japan and then selling them what they needed to rebuild did a fair amount of that too, yes?

I don't think a message did that, except the one in which we lied to ourselves about how much better we were than everyone else. While denying black folk the vote.

There was no horrible communist threat. The threat was LABOR, trying to get a fair wage. Instead "communism" was thrown out as a scare tactic of the time, used partially by business unions, business, and the government who conspired to destroy the populist labor movement of the time, the democratic Industrial Labor Unions, because they threatened this capitalist way of life we know now.

What Bernie is tapping into is the frustration with the lies we have been told by people who are right in front of our face, people who we need to quit kidding ourselves about.

I don't mean to disrespect you, and you can go with all that rah-rah crap if you want to, but perhaps that is why we are in the hole we are in as a nation.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jtuck004 (Reply #43)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:55 PM

64. +1 agree wholeheartedly nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jtuck004 (Reply #43)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:43 PM

91. I agree with most of your post.

However, in 1932 when FDR was elected, labor was winning. Lots of people were looking at the new Soviet Union. Many Americans went there - yes they got disillusioned by Stalin - but they still went. And at that time people were marching in the streets and getting shot down by police.

You bet it was about labor. And you know what? FDR was the greatest friend the oligarchs had because the New Deal in fact delayed the revolution which would surely have come.

As to racial oppression, I'm in sad agreement with you.

Bernie is calling for a 'political' revolution, and I'm supporting it because I'm 57 on my next birthday and I really don't want to live through a pitchfork type of revolution. Because our system now is unsustainable, and as angry (justifiably) as you are about the profound racism that still grips this country, many more are getting angrier by the minute at the economic oppression we all face. The next step? Pitchforks. That's why I'm supporting Bernie.

It isn't rah-rah crap. It is one last tilt at the old windmill - one last try at doing it from within. FDR wasn't perfect by a long shot, nor was the New Deal, particularly through the eyes of Jim Crow. Bernie's plan is better because he does take racism into account.

So, we'll see where it goes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #91)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:21 PM

94. If you discount the Industrial Union and the IWW as nothing more than floor sweepings, sure. But

 

I don't.

The people's union, one big union, the Industrial Union, the IWW - it was kind of fluid, but THAT labor movement, which sought control, was not content to be subservient to business owners...had already been tortured, murdered, killed and jailed out of existence with the collaboration of government, the AF of L, and business by the time you choose to start counting. That's convenient. For you.

What you call "winning" was more collaboration. And if I might direct your attention to the bolded phrase below:

" First Red Scare"

A "Red Scare" is a somewhat like today in which one group chooses a non-existent scary thing to divide and subjugate others. There was no communist menace - it was business using this as a scare tactic against labor.

It was very effective. Got you, as you keep proving. And I bet you didn't feel a thing. Don't worry, it got hundreds of millions of Americans, and still does.

Labor had already lost a lot by the time you start keeping track. Maybe too much.


...
"In the 1910s and early '20s, the IWW achieved many of their short-term goals, particularly in the American west, and cut across traditional guild and union lines to organize workers in a variety of trades and industries. At their peak in August 1917, IWW membership was over 150,000.[9] However, the extremely high rate of IWW membership turnover during this era (estimated at 133% per decade) makes it difficult to state membership totals with any certainty, as workers tended to join the IWW in large numbers for relatively short periods (e.g., during labor strikes and periods of generalized economic distress).[10]

Nonetheless, membership declined dramatically in the 1920s due to several factors. There were conflicts with other labor groups, particularly the American Federation of Labor (AFL) which regarded the IWW as too radical while the IWW regarded the AFL as too staid and conservative.[11] Membership also declined in the wake of government crackdowns on radical, anarchist and socialist groups during the First Red Scare after WWI. The most decisive factor in the decline in IWW membership and influence, however, was a 1924 schism, from which the IWW never fully recovered."
...

-wiki, and about a dozen really good history biographies, autobiographies, and descriptions.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jtuck004 (Reply #94)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:07 PM

115. The Wobblies were great - but the government did put them down. Bloodily.

And you forgot the sedition act - I think that's what it is called - which allowed the government to charge people who were against the war, which most unions were.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #115)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:20 PM

116. Industrialists were making the money, using the workers as cannon fodder, and the workers were

 

against being used in war and at work for the profit of a few. Remember, many had left fascists, tyrants, and being owned before they came here. \ So business people and the AF of L lobbied and got a law passed which jailed or murdered the most effective activists and labor workers and organizers. They also murdered the governor of Idaho, a friend of labor, but that was earlier.

Your government at work. They made the Teaparty look weak in comparison. And I didn't forget anything. The government was in the pocket of business and together they were hurting American workers for the profit of their friends.

Not a thing has changed.

The communists were't the problem. It was the fascists in our government and business using their power to beat down American labor.

They depend on folks like you being misinformed in school, and then spreading those falsehoods far and wide, telling people the wrong story, so they can keep using the scary shadows to scare people for their own profit.

Just like Bush and his WMD. Heck of a job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jtuck004 (Reply #116)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:37 PM

117. So join the political revolution. We're on the same page.

We both want economic and social justice. An end to exploitation, racism and sexism. We should not be arguing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Reply #117)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:53 PM

118. We wouldn't be arguing if you would give proper respect to labor and pay attention to

 

history, quit relating the lies and falsehoods that our opponents want you to spread, people who are trying to manipulate you and others for their own greed, eh?

I've been encouraging those things you say we should be fighting for in a lot of ways for a long, long time. I found out that many people will pretend to be your friend, they will lie to your face, and the only defense you have is to know the history better than they do.

Know your subject else you will fall into their trap, and won't be of any use to anyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:26 AM

44. You've got that right

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:59 AM

45. Beautiful post.

A hearty, chunky kick!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:04 AM

46. Kick and R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:16 AM

47. He's definitely more of what a Democrat should be.

Over the years the party has edged to the right rather than standing its ground. Maybe this is a reversal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:00 AM

49. Kickety kick kick.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:02 AM

50. No "may be" about it. Bernie embodies what I want the Democratic Party to return to. eom

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:15 AM

52. Exceptionally well said! K&R! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:24 AM

54. Good post.

It's sad how far to the right the D party has drifted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:36 AM

55. Yes. Ever since Birchers co-opted the GOP, traditional Republicans were forced to flee

And guess where they wound up?
They didn't change their views. Just their party affiliation.

The time has come to restore the Democratic Party. And it makes sense that it takes an "outsider" to do it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #55)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:51 AM

57. I agree. Kick the conservatives out of our party. nm

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:12 PM

58. He IS more of Democrat than today's so-called Democrats

 

Bernie is embracing and speaking about policies and ideals that are traditionally Democratic ones but which today's "Democratic" party has long since forgotten about or abandoned. So much so that they don't even RECOGNIZE a true Democrat like Sanders anymore. Listen to FDR or read his speeches. Sounds much like Bernie Sanders!

The Democratic Party has lost its way. One way it can return to traditionally Democratic ideals is to EMBRACE and uphold Bernie Sanders as a true Democratic candidate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:24 PM

59. the party's been PREDICATED on not acting Dem while keeping the voters going

since like 1994
and Eisenhower was for infrastructure beyond "drill here, drill now"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:42 PM

60. FDR was a rich man: Sanders supporters would hate FDR : FDR was a 1% and a trust baby

 

Hillary is FDR's legacy: She educated, experience, successful,
she can play a good game of poker.

FDR said what it takes to be a good President is a good card player,
Sanders has never been in a poltical fight.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #60)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:25 PM

79. Is there an echo in here?...

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lewebley3 (Reply #60)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:59 PM

95. They say that if several people tell you something, however absurd, you start to believe it

One person saying the same thing over and over again, however, doesn't have the same effect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:44 PM

61. He's flying in the face of the donor-favored Republican Lite

branding being pushed so hard by corporate interests. Money people would very much like to turn the Democratic brand into nothing more than a more socially liberal version of the same platform Republicans are selling.

I think the fevered culture war the Republicans have been using to whip up their base is annoying the money people in the donor class and their corporate brethren. They don't really care one way or the other about civil rights or women's reproductive freedom or logical immigration policy or anything else. They want unregulated markets, no leverage for labor; no national ownership of resources or government-supplied social safety nets.

So a lot of corporatists have slid over under the Democratic banner. For some reason, they're comfortable with the "progressive" brand, and are working furiously to make sure that has nothing whatsoever to do with economic issues.

The rationale they typically deploy is that anyone not on Wall Street's good side is "unelectable" (read: won't be able to get enough corporate / billionaire support to compete).

Sanders is screwing that up, and you have to assume they don't like it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:30 PM

73. Yup.

Well framed. Time for a "correction."

K/R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 02:50 PM

74. Bernie gets it

He's a working class dude with a heckofalot of smarts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:09 PM

77. There's no "may" about it.

He most absolutely is!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:27 PM

80. Maybe? eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:45 PM

82. May be? I'd venture to say he's the ONLY real Democrat in it.

The rest of them are variants from Mostly (O'Malley) to Should have just stayed a Republican (Webb).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:21 PM

83. We know that. The "he's not a real Democrat" crowd have an agenda, and it's not

to see the 99% live in a democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:26 PM

86. +1 I certainly think so.

And he really listens to people and learns from them. I couldn't ask for a better candidate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:27 PM

87. Yes, he's doing a lot of talking....

....but he hasn't done two other things that may be more important than merely talking:

1. He's not doing any LISTENING, which is probably more important than talking!

2. He's not putting for credible solutions for all the problems and ills that he's pointing out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #87)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:15 PM

97. Where do you think he gets his positions come from?

His constituents are the one relaying their problems to him so of course he's going to be airing out the problems of the middle class. He's put out no-sense legislation to protect the middle class, but the bought and paid for Congress won't bring his ideas to a vote. This includes the blue dog (another term for sell out) Democrats who want to keep their donors in the game.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to d_legendary1 (Reply #97)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:26 PM

99. If he has been blocked by Congress, how is he going to get around that?

How is going to get his "no nonsense legislation" through? A solution that can never be implemented is not a solution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SunSeeker (Reply #99)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:37 PM

101. And he's rarely, if ever, provided a "solution". A solution is detailing how to get his ideas...

....implemented.

A President can have the best ideas in the history of the country, but if he's unable to get them implemented they're useless.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SunSeeker (Reply #99)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:19 PM

102. Maybe he can do what a lot of legislators do in order to pass legislation

Add tax cuts to his bills, deregulate an industry, or make it easier to outsource more jobs out of the country. That's what is called bipartisanship now a days, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to d_legendary1 (Reply #102)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:39 PM

103. Yeah, I figured you didn't know.

Don't feel bad, Bernie doesn't know how he'll do it either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to d_legendary1 (Reply #97)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:35 PM

100. "the bought and paid for Congress won't bring his ideas to a vote."

You hit the nail on the head. Regardless of how Congress got there (i.e., the obligatory dig at their campaign financing), THEY WON'T BRING HIS IDEAS TO A VOTE!!!

So how do you think he can be an effective President?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #100)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:44 PM

104. Well for one thing he can stop the TPP

unlike HRC who is gun-ho for its implementation. He can stop crappy legislation from ever getting implemented. He can enforce the laws we already have like the Sherman Acts. There's plenty of things he can do to disrupt the status quo. Bernie's a brilliant guy so I'm sure he'll think of something.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:37 PM

89. Yep. I guess I'm a Bernicrat!

Always have voted Dem, but my party is barely recognizable much of the time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PatrickforO (Original post)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 11:55 PM

119. There is no 'maybe' about it.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread