2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Case for Bernie from an Expat
The Case for Bernie from an Expat
by beachten
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By now most of us are familiar with what Sanders means when he calls himself a 'democratic socialist'. He insists that the US, one of the wealthiest nations in the world, can afford to provide its workers with paid vacation time, with universal health care, with a free college education (again, something Hillary does not support). He knows that we have the wealth to improve our nation's infrastructure--every time I return to the US, I'm horrified by how dilapidated this country has become. The position of many Hillary supporters is that (some of) these things are pie-in-the sky dreaming, unrealistic, and unattainable in the US. There is indeed some truth to this--Republicans are committed to obstructing social progress.
But this attitude reflects just how far we have fallen, how far right our discourse has gone, how deeply disconnected we are from the rest of the world, particularly northern Europeans, who view the US with a combination of horror, disgust (at our foreign policy), and at times, sympathy. They fundamentally do not understand how we still do not have single-payer health care, strong public education that is state subsidized from preschool through specialty training or university education and beyond, unemployment benefits, job-placement and paid retraining services, paid parental leave, generous pensions, and more (much more!).
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My point here is that we will never get there if we don't plan it, and if we don't demand it. And we will certainly NEVER get there by supporting a candidate that is silent on what should be viewed as basic workers and human rights. I'm not even getting into foreign policy or Wall Street--again, no need to get into Hillary's relationship with Wall Street--we know what it is. But it should be obvious to all that without a fundamental change of the role of Wall Street and corporate power in our nation, none of the social values our party should support will be realized.
So when you tell me that these "socialist" values are not realistic, and that most Americans won't vote for them, I'll tell you that the only way to bring this country back from the abyss the right has taken us is to fight for these values and support the candidates that best represent them. The choice is obvious.
More:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/30/1416741/-The-Case-for-Bernie-from-an-Expat
ms liberty
(8,574 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,361 posts)Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
Frederick Douglass
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/frederickd134371.html#xuKmuCJvBgJaMTKY.99
Thanks for the thread, kpete.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)That's why, for too many, the choice isn't obvious.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I'm voting for WHAT I want this time.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)The US would have to consider a VAT....and I don't see too many Americans not howling bloody murder about that. Stick a 20% VAT on goods and see how well that goes over.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)My own state doesn't have an income tax, so we're taxed on every purchase, including food.
If we haven't howled now, why would we howl then? Especially, if the tax benefits us. The sales tax barely does now.
But hey keep shoveling that right wing nonsense. Not sure what's more pathetic and sad: you spouting that crap here or you being so pathetically misinformed.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)BooScout
(10,406 posts)See I live in one of those 'socialist countries'. I am an ex-pat.
Not only does the UK have an income tax but it also has a 20% VAT. If you want a single payer health care system you will have to have a VAT like the European countries that Bernie often singles out in his examples of political nirvana. EU countries have a minimum VAT rate of 15%. The VAT rate in Croatia, Denmark, Norway and Sweden is 25%. In Finland it is 24%. Some countries have reduced VAT for some services such as food, housing, etc, but not all...The reduced rate for food in Norway, and by food, I mean groceries, not restaurant meals, is 15%...which is still pretty substantial.
Virtually all EU countries also have income tax rates on top of the VAT rates. Bernie makes his ideas seem a magical elixir to cure all the evils of capitalism. I am merely pointing out that nothing is actually free in this world. Everything has a price.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)have the highest life satisfaction, for a plurality, in the world. We have the greatest wealth disparity, highest crime and incarceration rates, most expensive and least effective health care, highest student debt... on and on...
What the fuck kind of country do you want to live in? I'm going with the Rainbow Pony Rancher.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)ish of the hammer
(444 posts)thanks for the input.
I guess taxing Capital Gains at the same rate as Ordinary Income is too much?
Carried Interest?
Oil and Gas depletion allowance?
The Pentagon paper clip budget?
I think one of Sanders talking points (as opposed to the Repubs) is that we CAN afford what we (the people) need.
Oh wait. I see!
Your point is Bernie Sanders is a SOCIALIST !!
nice Rebulican talking point, Claire
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I've made contact and they are more than happy to help curb uniformed perceptions of "socialism" from their perspective, which is also Bernie's perspective.
They agree the term, "socialism" or "democratic socialism," are broad, but know that when Sanders uses those terms, he means the way it's applied in the Netherlands.
xocet
(3,871 posts)turbinetree
(24,701 posts)This election is on the ISSUES and the U.S Supreme Court and if anyone doesn't see what this right wing majority court has done to the worker then you don't get it.
When we had a justices that stood for the worker, education, and other facets that helped this society we moved forward, that is a fact, what we have now is corporate oligarchy developing right before our eyes, enabled by this court.
There are many other ISSUES that need to be dealt with and we can do this, that is why I support Sander's , at least I know where my money is going and will go.
Honk----------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016