The "States Rights" anti-Bernie meme is just deflection and a distorting distraction

[Armstead]

I guess Message Central has decided to turn up the volume on the claims that Sanders is an "anti-progressive Socialist" by dragging up and misrepresenting his positions at various times on various issues where he has supported states rights.

Sanders is somehow a Gun Nut who opposed Gay Rights because he has supported states rights on those issues,

"Proof that he's just a Libertarian Conservative Socialist using the "racist" concept of states rights to advance his right wing communist agenda."

But, in truth, "states rights" is a neutral concept.

It is simply a perennial question of how much power should be centralized, and how much should be at the state and local level on any given issue.

It can be used in many different ways for good or ill. Yes conservatives have misused the concept to support things like segregation and overturning abortion rights and other right-wing goals.

But it can also be used for good, and to advance progressive goals. And as a pragmatic way to allow for governance in a state level to adapt to local conditions.

If Massachusetts had been denied its "states rights" to legalize same sex marriage, it is quite possible that would still be a remote possibility on thee national level, rather than the law of the land. That (and other states) opened the door for national adoption of it.

If we were to have strong national gun control policies as a baseline, and a state with a large urban population decided to implement even stricter ones, then that state would be allowed to do so.

The fact that many states have higher minimum wages than the Federal baseline is a matter of "states rights." Unless one thinks that all states should be denied that rights and stay at the comparatively low national minimum minimum wage.

In one wants to criticize an actual position Sanders (or any politician) has on a particular issue, fine. But please don't use inaccurate cliches in an effort to paint him as something he is not.

[TeddyR]

1. I completely agree that there's nothing wrong with the concept of states rights

As would the founding fathers. In fact, they codified as much in the Tenth Amendment, which reads "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." As the OP suggests, the rub is how the individual states implement (or alternatively prohibit) the rights provided to the state citizens.

[Armstead]

5. Exactly. It's a basic concept that is neutral beyond the concept

It's relative, like the idea of "activist courts."

When a court shoots down or supports a policy or law, opponents of the decision say the court is "overreaching" and viplating the Constitution, while those who support the decision will say the court is upholding the Constitution.

[leftofcool]

2. The tea party would agree with you. Especially Rand Paul who is big on states rights.

[Armstead]

4. I love your intellectual honesty

So I assume Massachusetts "states rights" should have been denied and shot down when they exercised their states rights to legalize marriage equality, and its justices confirmed it.

And if a state like New York or Connecticut wanted to adopt stronger than national gun control laws, they should not be allowed to?

Hooookay

[leftofcool]

6. Why don't you Google all those groups who believe in states rights

You can start with the tea party groups, the 10th amendment group, the Center for American Progress and other scumbag groups who are saying the same thing you are then you can thank gawd for the Supreme Court. Oh, and don't forget the "Oath Keepers"

[Armstead]

9. Why don't you read plain English?

You deftly avoid answering my questions by throwing out a lot of unrelated hoo hah.

"State's rights" was used by racist assholes in the South to perpetuate segregation. Tue and a bad use of the concept.

The rights of states also allowed Massachusetts to legalize and uphold same-sex marriage, and to open the floodgates for national legalization of it. YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

You're just using labels and miscategorizations, instead of dealing with actual issues.

[leftofcool]

10. Believe as you will. I refuse to use that meme at any time.

[Armstead]

11. That's a meme?

The fact that a state allowed same sex marriage, which was one factor that set off a national wave of similar actions by otehr states, ending up with the SC legalizing it on a nationwide basis is a meme?

That fact that a state might enact especially tough gun laws using states rights is a meme?

Hooookay. Whatever.

[sabrina 1]

7. Are you saying you were FOR having Vt's historic legalization of Marriage Equality struck down by

Fed Govt? Why?

I totally supported Sanders on this at the time. But then, like Bernie, and unlike Hillary who at the time opposed Marriage Equality, I always supported it.

[emulatorloo]

13. Stop putting words in other people's mouths.

You are better than that.

[frylock]

14. Seems like a fair summary of the poster's protestations to states rights.

[workinclasszero]

17. Teadaddists agree for sure

Its so bizarre to see so-called leftists defending regressive states rights BS for Bernie.


Hey this racist champion of segregation has the same opinion about states rights, go figure.

[Prism]

3. LGBTers won't buy this bucket of horseshit

The fact they're even attempting to paint Sanders as anti-LGBT is hilariously desperate. No one believes this. I don't even think they people writing these articles believe it. They're just carrying water.

A lot of pro-LGBT activists and politicians were operating in an anti-FMA context at the time. When Bush and the Religious Right wanted to write anti-gay language in our very constitution, a major argument at the time was that states should be allowed to chart their own course on social progress. We were facing elections where popular vote was banning gay marriage in state constitutions all over the country, and we needed to preserve and protect the few places where progress was happening.

This was ten years ago, so why people are pretending they don't know this is beyond me. It's all so pointlessly dishonest, and I am just loving all the heterosexuals who are now going to stand there and assert that we have no idea what was happening with our rights a couple cycles ago, when even Democrats were telling us to STFU because it was losing them elections.

Seriously. This takes some titanium ones.

And we all knew this was coming. HRC's campaign and surrogates will exploit anything with the kind of imagination and testicular fortitude that defies imagination.

[djean111]

8. Plus a million. very well said! n/t

[whatchamacallit]

12. +1 n/t

[beam me up scottie]

16. Thank you, Prism.

You knew this was going to happen when you posted your op Pre-emptive: Sanders doesn't have a problem with LGBTers.

You called it.

And they have no shame.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Yes, it is. Bernie voted against DOMA in 1996, to claim he opposed marriage equality is absurd.