2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie's D- rating from the NRA is the lowest of any recent major Vermont politician
Last edited Thu Oct 15, 2015, 05:39 AM - Edit history (1)
Some places say he has an F rating, so it might be even lower.
Leahy got a C. Welch had a C.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/19/us/politics/nra.html?_r=0
Dean had an A.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Gun_Control.htm
Shumlin had an A.
https://www.nrapvf.org/articles/20121005/nra-pvf-endorses-peter-shumlin-for-governor-in-vermont
Douglass had an A.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/212789/voting-target-dave-kopel
I couldn't find an actual rating from Jeffords, but he was clearly pretty pro-gun.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Jim_Jeffords_Gun_Control.htm
That's every senator, representative, and governor from Vermont since 1991.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It's all they have.
stone space
(6,498 posts)There's a real gun crisis in Vermont!
artislife
(9,497 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)...
Sanderss record on gun legislation is somewhat mixed. He used to be a National Rifle Association candidate of choice, but these days, given his support for tepid gun-control measures, hes persona non grata with the NRA. Even so, Sanders has been opposed for the most part to greater government oversight of ownership and sale of firearms. During his long tenure in Congressfor 16 years in the House of Representatives before being elected to the Senate in 2006Sanders opposed universal background checks, and after the Sandy Hook killings in 2012 he said that even the strongest gun-control law would not have prevented a massacre of innocents.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/bernie-sanders-gets-his-gun/
jfern
(5,204 posts)It make you think he opposed background checks since Sandy Hook, which is certainly false.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... Brady bill and hold gun manufacturers responsible for making a dangerous item more dangerous.
Sanders stance on guns is well known
jfern
(5,204 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)her Iraq war vote.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Let's see the record of your assertion please.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... rating was political not one that they gave because he earned it.
Sanders likes guns, like his constituents ... running from that stance is out of character
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... bill.
Do Sanders supporters just want to present the guy as the perfect?!
Or that he can throw a stone!?
He can't, in this area Sanders doesn't get the highest marks... so what... I don't expect perfection
This is why he's being set up for failure, shit... if people are defending his obvious negatives what are they going to do with the rest of them!?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... Hillary says she shoots or if she wears pants suites or if her hair is blonde one day and brunette the other.
Small shit that doesn't matter....
Sanders life stance on guns does matter to me
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)WAUSAU, WIS. -- At a campaign stop this afternoon, Hillary Clinton's focus was on the economy and health care but some in the crowd had other things on their minds. Clinton was asked to discuss gun control which prompted Clinton to talk about her days holding a rifle in the cold, shallow waters in backwoods Arkansas.
"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was," Clinton said drawing laughter from the crowd.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... what comes out of his mouth in the areas he's criticized others in.
I don't see the difference that's worth the risk
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Seems to me you're the one throwing stones at Bernie from Hillary's glass shooting range.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts).... votes something that's a negative for Hillary
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Or it could be that he was representing his constituents because that's his fucking job?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Keep digging, this is hillaryous!
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... convictions.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)And yeah, where did he say he likes guns?
He is voted in to represent his constituency. Vermont is mostly country area, gun ownership there is not the same as gun ownership in a metropolitan area. So considering his constituency probably has a lot of hunters in it it's pretty good that he got a D- from the NRA.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)WASHINGTON, April 17 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities, Sanders said. There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others, Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories, Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales up to 40 percent of all gun transfers at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between family, friends, and neighbors.
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Is it safe to assume now that she has completely divested from Walmart to free herself so she can advocate for gun control?
Isn't Walmart now and weren't they when she sat on the BOD, this country's largest firearms and ammo retailer?
Have you ever asked yourself if any of the firearms or ammo sold by Walmart during her tenure and or while being a shareholder, had been used in mass shootings?
Did she have mixed feelings during the lead up to the Brady Bill vote knowing she was profiting from the sale of firearms as a shareholder?
Do you think it is in her best interest that her supporters are making such a big issue about Bernie Sanders position on whether firearms manufactures should be held liable for firearms deaths and not also focusing on all who are profiting or have profited from firearms sales, including Hillary Clinton herself?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... the standard of all progressivism and promising pink unicorns through congress like Sanders is.
Today on MTP he couldn't answer practically (except for some millions of people platitude) how he'd deal with congress who's gerrymandered and doesn't answer to the people.
Not worth taking a chance on right now
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... Sanders has been in congress or government for over 30 years and there are swaths of America who don't know who he is.
How is that?!!??!
Al Sharpton is more well known than Sanders...
Sanders hasn't been the person he wants Obama to be and that's what bothers me most about his Obama criticism ...
Sanders wasn't leading a million person march in favor of single payer even in his own damn state!!!!
and thinking 1234123 trillion people will persuade a republican isn't wishful thinking or naive, it's just talking shit.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And all because he dared challenge Hillary on her way to the coronation.
Tsk.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Gun nut is a snarl word referring to a person (often, but not always, male and Republican, and usually in the United States, though they exist elsewhere) who not only believes in the right to keep and bear arms, but makes a point of doing so with gusto.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gun_nut
1. A person who takes a keen interest in firearms and ammunition, possibly including the study, peer discussion, ownership, bearing and use thereof - usually used playingly by oneself or by other firearms enthusiasts in this sense. Often associates with people with similar interests.
2. A person who takes seemingly morbid interest in firearms out of a belief that they provide protection, security and freedom while appearing scary to the uninitiated - usually used derogatively by non-gun people, particularly those who are scared of firearms.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gun+nut
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... meily mouth about guns
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The Slate author who called him that is a tool.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... the rest of it is nicking at pits
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... switch on assault weapons ban.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html
As a candidate in 1990, Sanders won over gun rights groups by promising to oppose one bill they hated a measure that would establish a waiting period for handgun sales.
But lets continue this whole conversation as if Sanders has a stance on guns that's totally in line with the DNC.....
if that makes you feel better.
Grass is still green
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's the talking point you've glommed onto and I have yet to see proof that they called him that.
Try again.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... the designation was.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... somehow that changes anything?!
Whatever man, 1990 he was supported by the Taliban ... er... uh the NRA because of his pro gun stances and now it's down to wording in regards to his overall stance on guns.
This is ridiculous.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)when his pro-gun control record is right there for everyone to see.
You keep flinging feces but it's not sticking, time to find another meme, this one's dead.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... for gun manufacturers and guns... everything else is syntax.
His record is there for everyone to see, including his vote against the Brady Bill.
Everything is ...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)You sure do like your right-wing sources don't you?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... with some other red herring about Sanders gun record no matter how factual the source (which you havne't stated where they're wrong)
tia
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I have seen Bernie's record in which he has supported the assault weapons ban and other gun control measures, those who try to portray him as a gun nut are liars whether they are on the right or the left.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernieto test his mettle after Smiths about-face.
Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation? he asked. Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?
Yes, he replied. Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsmans Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
I said that before the election, he continued. The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We dont know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.
I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.
As has been the case in Sanders 2016 presidential campaign, he was accused by Smith in 1990 of taking some positions held by the NRAopposing some gun controls. He didnt take that bait. Bernie stood by his defense the rights of rural hunters, and in his closing statement did what he always doesturn the conversation toward what he thinks is the most relevant and big picture issue.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)....However, the Nation and the other reports like it dont shed real light on where Sanders is coming from. They dont explain why he supports some gun controls but not others. Nor do they ask if theres a consistency to Sanders positions and votes over the years? They simply suggest that Bernies position is muddled and makes a good target for Hillary.
Yet there is an explanation. Its consistent and simpler than many pundits think. And its in Bernies own words dating back to the campaign where he was first elected to the U.S. Housein 1990where he was endorsed by the NRA, even after Sanders told them that he would ban assault rifles. That year, Bernie faced Republican incumbent Peter Smith, who beat him by less than 4 percentage points in a three-way race two years before.
In that 1988 race, Bernie told Vermont sportsmen that he backed an assault weapons ban. Smith told the same sportsmens groups that he opposed it, but midway through his first term he changed his mind and co-sponsored an assault rifle baneven bringing an AK-47 to his press conference. That about-face was seen as a betrayal and is the background to a June 1990 debate sponsored by the Vermont Federation of Sportsmens Clubs.
I was at that debate with Smith and three other candidatesas the Sanders campaign press secretaryand recorded it. Bernie spoke at length three times and much of what he said is relevant today, and anticipates his congressional record on gun control ever since. Look at how Bernie describes what being a sportsperson is in a rural state, where he is quick to draw the line with weapons that threaten police and have no legitimate use in huntinghe previously was mayor of Vermonts biggest city, and his record of being very clear with the gun lobby and rural people about where he stands. His approach, despite the Nations characterization, isnt open-minded.
As you can see, Berniewho moved to rural northeastern Vermont in the late 1960shas an appreciation and feeling for where hunting and fishing fit into the lives of lower income rural people. Hes not a hunter or a fisherman. When he grew up in Brooklyn, he was a nerdy jockbeing captivated by ideas and a high school miler who hoped for a track scholarship for college. But like many people who settled in Vermont for generations, he was drawn to its freer and greener pastures and respected its local culture.
I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.
That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. Its also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980sbefore he was in Congresswhich he reiterated to the moderator.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/what_bernies_gun_control_critics_get_wrong_partner/
artislife
(9,497 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... her term as SOS has changed her character and a good portion of the criticism is because she's a woman seeing a good portion of her male counterparts haven't done any worse or better in some areas.
artislife
(9,497 posts)trust me, I don't think of her a woman first. Especially the way it was far too easy for her to the promote bombing of women and children.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)she must be protected right? Are you saying she is to weak to take any criticism?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... criticism.
Come to think of it, she's been doing damn good relative to the attacks against her.
To get her numbers down and Bernies up polls have to throw in someone who's not even running yet
we'll see
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You mean that poster was wrong???
jfern
(5,204 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #26)
Name removed Message auto-removed
shenmue
(38,506 posts)It's a tiny state.
Response to shenmue (Reply #39)
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