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Tue Oct 20, 2015, 04:56 AM

 

Bernie has already Won

Lets be honest - do you think any of the candidates would be talking about "Income inequality" if Bernie was not in the race bringing the issue front and center to the American public

or Free College tuition

or Paid maternity leave

These were issues Democratic candidates dared not mention in fear of the GOP backlash yet they are issues Bernie has held dear to his heart to bring to the American people for decades.

Without Bernie in the race all we would be hearing about is finding "Middle Ground" with a bunch of Tea Farty fanatics

112 replies, 11319 views

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Arrow 112 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie has already Won (Original post)
FreakinDJ Oct 2015 OP
EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #1
ejbr Oct 2015 #11
FreakinDJ Oct 2015 #25
merrily Oct 2015 #28
Ikonoklast Oct 2015 #29
EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #33
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #2
Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #4
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #7
retrowire Oct 2015 #12
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #16
retrowire Oct 2015 #51
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #52
retrowire Oct 2015 #53
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #54
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #55
retrowire Oct 2015 #59
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #60
retrowire Oct 2015 #69
closeupready Oct 2015 #56
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #58
A Simple Game Oct 2015 #14
Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #15
FrodosPet Oct 2015 #35
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #18
beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #17
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #19
BlueJazz Oct 2015 #22
beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #66
Plucketeer Oct 2015 #92
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #94
Plucketeer Oct 2015 #96
rhett o rick Oct 2015 #62
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #63
rhett o rick Oct 2015 #64
Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #90
rhett o rick Oct 2015 #95
Lordquinton Oct 2015 #108
Chan790 Oct 2015 #50
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2015 #103
enid602 Oct 2015 #87
tecelote Oct 2015 #3
peacebird Oct 2015 #5
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2015 #104
Elmer S. E. Dump Oct 2015 #86
Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #6
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #9
Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #10
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #13
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #34
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #36
randys1 Oct 2015 #76
AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #45
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #46
AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #47
NCTraveler Oct 2015 #48
magical thyme Oct 2015 #8
cprise Oct 2015 #83
Walk away Oct 2015 #93
deutsey Oct 2015 #20
FreakinDJ Oct 2015 #42
Helen Borg Oct 2015 #21
djean111 Oct 2015 #24
FreakinDJ Oct 2015 #43
Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2015 #23
Armstead Oct 2015 #31
stevenleser Oct 2015 #68
DanTex Oct 2015 #26
merrily Oct 2015 #27
FreakinDJ Oct 2015 #44
Eric J in MN Oct 2015 #72
Vincardog Oct 2015 #73
merrily Oct 2015 #88
Armstead Oct 2015 #30
emulatorloo Oct 2015 #78
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2015 #105
emulatorloo Oct 2015 #109
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2015 #110
emulatorloo Oct 2015 #111
mmonk Oct 2015 #32
kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #37
Beaverhausen Oct 2015 #81
firebrand80 Oct 2015 #38
zipplewrath Oct 2015 #57
WHEN CRABS ROAR Oct 2015 #84
randome Oct 2015 #65
randome Oct 2015 #39
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2015 #85
Robbins Oct 2015 #40
Utopian Leftist Oct 2015 #61
Robbins Oct 2015 #67
sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #41
Zorra Oct 2015 #49
Duval Oct 2015 #70
Eric J in MN Oct 2015 #71
Demeter Oct 2015 #74
Bernblu Oct 2015 #75
sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #77
InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2015 #106
ErikJ Oct 2015 #79
liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #80
valerief Oct 2015 #82
WorseBeforeBetter Oct 2015 #98
Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #89
WillyT Oct 2015 #102
PosterChild Oct 2015 #91
TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #97
McKim Oct 2015 #99
Doctor_J Oct 2015 #100
DonCoquixote Oct 2015 #101
akbacchus_BC Oct 2015 #107
ismnotwasm Oct 2015 #112

Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:19 AM

1. welll...

It's all just that, talk, until someone does something about it... people have been talking about gun violence for decades and well... you know the story...

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:41 AM

11. Exactly n/t

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:30 AM

25. Ya middle ground is so much better to campaign on

 

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:52 AM

28. +1

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Response to EdwardBernays (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:06 AM

29. Except that gun violence has been *decreasing* for decades now.

It does work, people aren't just talking, if the various agencies involved get off their dead bureaucratic asses and enforce the laws already in place, even more guns would get out of the hands of criminals.

But that takes actual police work, and does not generate any revenue for the police departments. Real police work costs them money, way easier to bust a kid for smoking a joint and ruining his life.

Using gun violence as a boogey man, even as gun use is now and has been dropping for decades does get police departments all sorts of taxpayer money and military goodies though.

Makes one wonder what their agenda really is here.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:13 AM

33. yes and no

while it HAS been decreasing for decades it's still ANYWHERE NEAR as low as anywhere else worth talking about.

The US gun violence rate and murder rate are ridiculously high, so a reduction in something absurdly large is hardly proof of much.

Put it another way, in the 90s our murder rate was the same as Zimbabwe and Haiti have currently... now it's on average 4x higher than in any european country... is it BETTER? Yes... is it anything to brag about? Well.. I guess it depends if having the same murder rate as Niger is something you find acceptable...

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:38 AM

2. Paid Maternity Leave.

 

Obama brought it up in his SOTU and many Democrats have been fighting for it for a while. Including a bill introduced this year, not by Sanders. Very strange it is all Sanders when Hillary was talking about it before he launched his campaign.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:59 AM

4. Hillary has no affect on Washington or what bills are introduced.

She isn't in Congress, so most of her talk is just that, talk.

On top of that, it doesn't matter that Obama brought it up in his SOTU because he isn't actively pushing for it.
Even if he did, the Democrats in Congress are running in 250 different directions trying to keep their fucking seats in Congress!
They are no longer taking their cues from the President because he is a lame duck President who can't get re-elected.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:29 AM

7. Lol.

 

Sanders is in the Senate and it wasn't his bill. Your words are empty. As a woman, I know who is fighting for me. You might want to spend some time researching.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:42 AM

12. Are you implying

that Bernie isn't fighting for women?

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Response to retrowire (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:54 AM

16. I never implied that in any way.

 

Hence your need to ask.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:32 AM

51. well

you know who is fighting for women.

why not name them all?

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Response to retrowire (Reply #51)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:34 AM

52. You make an incorrect statement trying to put words in my mouth.

 

Then ask me to do things. This is strange.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #52)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:39 AM

53. just reading between the lines

"I don't like bernie, I know who's fighting for women's rights."

meh.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #53)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:41 AM

54. Who are you quoting? nt.

 

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Response to retrowire (Reply #53)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:52 AM

55. Link to your quote? nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #55)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 12:44 PM

59. you dont understand the phrase

"between the lines"?

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Response to retrowire (Reply #59)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 12:58 PM

60. I understand quotation marks and how you dishonestly use them.

 

I now understand that "reading between the lines" isn't your thing either. Says a lot that you would completely fabricate a quote.
I am laughing my ass off at the fact you truly just made up a quote and attributed it to me. This is great stuff.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #60)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:50 PM

69. great we're laughing together then. :)

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:56 AM

56. Sounded to me like that is exactly what you were implying.

 

In more ways than one.

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Response to closeupready (Reply #56)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:59 AM

58. You are wrong.

 

Clearly. As is the other poster. It is why they completely fabricated a post I supposedly made. It is the only way to come to the conclusion you are. Please look at the one hundred percent fabricated quote the poster making the claim attributed to me. A complete lie. That is what is necessary for them to hold the same thought you are.

What was implied is that I am smart enough in this area to know when propaganda is being shoved my way. What you are stating I am implying is simply strange. Specially considering I have stated as recently as today that Sanders is excellent on womens issues. Back off the fight a little and the written word will become more clear to you.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:51 AM

14. I may not be a woman but as a parent and grandparent I will not vote for someone that

refused to vote to ban cluster bombs all the time knowing that they mutilate and kill women and children collecting scrap metal even years after being dropped from our bombers.

Do you want to discuss depleted uranium munitions and their affect on women and children when they gather them for scrap metal? How about our surgical drone strikes that kill innocent people 90% of the time? Think Hillary will stop any of that?

"We came, we saw, we killed him" is that really the kind of person you want to vote for?

No more war mongers for President.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:54 AM

15. Will you vote for someone who supports keeping troops in Afghanistan

 

and also supports the continuation of the drone wars?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:18 AM

35. People are mistaking Sen Sanders for a pro-Palestinian pacifist

Just like in 2008 with President Obama, some people see what they want to see. and not what is really there.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:57 AM

18. I appreciate your input...

 

Though it has nothing to do with the deceptive op. You are currently supporting someone who has repeatedly voted to fund foreign armies. Many of whom love what you claim to detest right here.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:54 AM

17. I'm a woman and Bernie has always fought for me.

To imply he's only doing so now because of Hillary is disingenuous at best.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:58 AM

19. I did not imply that he doesn't.

 

I think he is excellent on women's rights. Virtually ineffective but his thoughts and words are solid. Doesn't change the deception and dishonest words in the op.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:17 AM

22. Why do you hate women?

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:21 PM

66. Yes you did:

Very strange it is all Sanders when Hillary was talking about it before he launched his campaign.


You implied that he didn't care about the issue until your candidate brought it up.

The fact that you're trying to deny it after you were called out proves that you were being disingenuous.

And you just made another snide implication about his record and his being "virtually ineffective".

I'm just glad Hillary's support for a ban on late term abortions was "ineffective" and thankful that Bernie has always been 100% pro-choice. Unfortunately her support for DOMA was very effective.

Bernie's always had our backs, Hillary - not so much.


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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:37 PM

92. Now ya got me wondering

 

"As a woman, I know who is fighting for me." Is it a secret or could you share? You've done alot of footwork to avoid saying it flat out. I'm not a woman, but I really, genuinely, seriously want them to be treated fairly and on as equal a footing as is possible. Your insights might sway my thinking if they bear more merit than mine.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #92)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:47 PM

94. I don't mean to deflect in any way.

 

When you say "saying it flat out," what are you referencing. I'll add some thoughts and I think it might answer it. Not sure though. Are you thinking I am beating around the bush not say Sanders isn't strong for women's rights. I wouldn't say that because I don't believe it to be true.

The only other option I can kind of see is my woman comment and am I one to believe men can't have as strong of a voice in this area. While I do believe I might have better understanding, our greatest allies and often leaders are men. So many more educated than I. I probably shouldn't have made that comment. Still not that concerned about it considering the manner the topic was being discussed.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #94)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 09:25 PM

96. I'm not all that deep

 

It was the ->who<- in "who's fighting for me" that I was trying to pull out. I thought specific individuals were the point of the back 'n forth. I guess that was an generalization as opposed to an identification. That's cool.

I'm hoping my favorite in the race wins. And in no small part because I'm certain they'll go out of their way to see that women are treated fairly in any way that they aren't. It sure to hell is time that women had equal participation in the governmental workings of our country. That sort of equality would make enormous changes, I think - and for the better. I doubt I'll live to see that day, but I do think it's inevitable - provided this grand experiment survives long enough.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 01:56 PM

62. Not sure why you are pointing out that it wasn't his bill. What are you trying to imply.

 

Not every Senator gets to introduce every bill. HRC may work for women but her first priority is to help Goldman-Sachs and her billionaire friends that don't donate without expecting a huge return. And Goldman-Sachs doesn't care at all about women's issues. Profits are number one. Sen Sanders, on the other hand, is not obliged to Goldman-Sachs and the big money. He is now and has always worked hard for the 99%.

There are two sides to this class war. You do recognize the class war? HRC is a member of the 1% thanks to her friends in the 1%. Her campaign is funded by the 1%. She is on the wrong side of this class war.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #62)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 01:59 PM

63. Deflection followed by a non-sequitur. Bravo. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #63)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:02 PM

64. Once again, apparently lost for a response. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #64)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:21 PM

90. Lol, s/he rolled a 10 but needed a 15.

 

Sorry, nerd humor.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #90)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 09:24 PM

95. I see her post as classic projection. I directly responded to her insinuation. nm

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:45 AM

108. So, just to set the record straight

Who, "as a woman" is fighting for you?

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:00 AM

50. "Democrats in Congress are running in 250 different directions"

 

which is proof that we haven't learned the lessons of our defeats. When you stumble across a winning agenda like the Sanders agenda is resonating with Americans...you make promises to fall-in and effect that agenda. That is the lesson we failed to take away from the 1990s and Gingrich with the "Contract for America."

Even if it was really the contract to fuck America over, that's besides the point. The saw an opportunity, they fell in-line on message and they promised to effect that "contract" if elected. As a result, they were elected. It wasn't magic or voodoo...they offered what large swaths of the public wanted and they delivered it when given the opportunity.

Americans want the progressive ideas that are coming out of this primary. It's time to promise to deliver if given the reins. It's time for a "Promise to All Americans" where Democrats fall-in to rally behind a compelling and cohesive progressive agenda that resonates with America.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:11 AM

103. Most of what Hillary said while IN Congress was just talk.

Bernie is the authentic progressive leader that is showing us the way forward. Go Bernie Go!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:12 PM

87. bs

Also, Obama has tried half a dozen times to have the Bush era tax decrease for the wealthy rolled back, and has worked tirelessly to increase capital gains taxes. The Tea Party thwarted him every step of the way. Republican legislators are sworn to vote against Obama. The Bernie people tell us BS will have no such problems, due to his 'long coattails.' I've never seen a list of congressional candidates that are running on his platform, however.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:50 AM

3. Bernie is the best thing to happen to American politics in a long time.



--- text version ---

"I am going to do my best to try to create a country in which children are not living in poverty, in which kids can go to college, in which old people have health care. Will I succeed? I can't guarantee you that, but I can tell you that from a human point of view it is better to show up than to give up."

- Bernie Sanders

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Response to tecelote (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:06 AM

5. Love that meme, just stole it & tweeted it!

Thank you!

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Response to peacebird (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:13 AM

104. Makes one proud to be an American. Go Bernie!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

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Response to tecelote (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:11 PM

86. Love the guy. Don't you just want to give him a hug?

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:26 AM

6. Obama mentioned paid leave in the SOTU speech and he also

 

used his executive authority to mandate it for federal workers/contractors:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/01/14/obama-to-propose-seven-days-paid-sick-leave-for-workers/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/07/politics/obama-mandatory-sick-leave/

The article also mentioned that he pushed Congress to implement the Healthy Families Act.

Also, Obama has called for tuition-free community college much like Sanders:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Obama-trying-to-boost-free-community-college-plan-6492631.php

The notion that Dems dared not mention these issues is false.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:31 AM

9. They made it clear in their reply to me.

 

Obamas actions are insignificant. They just can't believe what they are typing. I refuse to believe they are serious. It's something else.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:41 AM

10. Like you mentioned upthread...

 

Paid maternity leave is something Dems in Congress and President Obama have been fighting for....for a while now. There's a bill in Congress and Sanders wasn't even the one who sponsored it.

Also, tution-free community/public college is something Obama/Dems have been talking about for a while now.

Suddenly Bernie proposes these things and they swoon.

I don't know what to tell you.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:47 AM

13. It's something else.

 

I think this is the first time they have been involved in the process. It's the only way one can come to the conclusion that they aren't spreading outright falsehoods. They simply have never cared about any of this before. While misguided, it's at least nice that they are acting like they care today. I just doubt the same people will still care tomorrow considering how they present what they believe to be true here.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:17 AM

34. Wrong.

I've been involved before.

But I'm so tired of establishment corporate war hawks that I'm just, well, tired.

Couldn't pay me to vote for her.

I'll vote Dem down-ticket, but voting for her is signing my son's own death warrant. Won't do it.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:25 AM

36. None of which addresses my point...

 

About the blatant falsehoods in the op.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:02 PM

76. Then those of us who want to prevent dead Women in back alley abortions will work that

much harder to get someone to vote in your place, if Hillary is the nominee.

It is a matter of life and death.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:43 AM

45. Bizarre, baseless 'conclusion'

 

Where do you folks get this nonsense?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #45)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:45 AM

46. You will have to ask the op? nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #46)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:49 AM

47. When Bernie started doing these things

 

Hillary was still a 'Goldwater Girl'.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #47)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:51 AM

48. That's right. grrrrrr. nt.

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:29 AM

8. talk is cheap.

 

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:49 PM

83. That is my response, too.

Clinton likes to pull the rug out from underneath the poor, then give them little "humanitarian causes" as a consolation prize.

She urged Bill Clinton to end welfare. It was all downhill from there.

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Response to cprise (Reply #83)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:43 PM

93. Wow! This place is really somthing!

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:00 AM

20. Just as Occupy did, Bernie at the very least

has broken through the false narrative that the Establishment props up as reality and has tapped what many people who are shut out of that narrative really feel.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:29 AM

42. +1000

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:01 AM

21. But we need more than talking.

Last edited Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Do you really think that Hillary will actually do anything about this, if she wins?

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Response to Helen Borg (Reply #21)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:27 AM

24. No, I don't think will do anything about this. Campaign blather. n/t

 

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Response to Helen Borg (Reply #21)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:32 AM

43. She'll be swamped by GOP rumor mill

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:27 AM

23. Hillary Clinton in 2007.

 

She speaks about income inequality.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/21/clinton.trans.economy/


In other words, she's been addressing this for some time.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:12 AM

31. She talks about symptoms buit nut real causes

 

"Tweak a few things,ask nicely and those Corporate Empires will behave themselves, and eventually maybe pay your a little more."

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:34 PM

68. But the Bernie folks say this crap with such confidence in their assertions!

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:31 AM

26. I agree. Now we just need to consolidate that victory by putting Hillary in the White House.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:52 AM

27. Sanders has already won.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778005 (arcane1's thread) I have always thought that.

I will sound like a broken record, but Bernie is the ONLY one talking about wealth inequality. I can't think of much that the federal government can do about income inequality, other than raising the minimum wage. However, it can do a LOT about wealth inequality.

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Response to merrily (Reply #27)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:34 AM

44. Yet now it was the main topic of the first debate

 

Yes he has changed the political discussion

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Response to merrily (Reply #27)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 03:28 PM

72. What should the federal gov't do about wealth inequality? NT

NT

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #72)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 03:51 PM

73. The Federal governments' TRADE TAX and (lack of) ENERGY policies create inequality.

They are the causes of the inequality we suffer.

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Response to Eric J in MN (Reply #72)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:20 PM

88. Thanks for the question.

Not really on topic for this thread. However, I will say this: The government has always been creative about making sure wealth got to the top and stayed there. I am sure it can be just as creative and clever about making sure at least some of it actually does trickle down. I know that because the government demonstrated that with the New Deal and the Great Society, when the fear of revolution weighed heavily in the minds of the plutocrats.

It's not a question of the what but of the want to.

I'd start by doing all I could to get Sanders elected. At least, he wants to.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:09 AM

30. We'll end up with the usual Dem v R "Go Team Go" Bullshit in the general

 

Sorry to sound cynical, but I think if Clinton is the nominee, the Election will revert to the same centraist crapola we;ve had for the last 35 years.

"The only cause of problems are those Republicans."

V chips, school uniforms...blah,blah,blah

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Response to Armstead (Reply #30)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:07 PM

78. You forgot vaginal probes.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #78)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:15 AM

105. huh?

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #105)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 08:21 AM

109. The more Republicans we get, the more women will be forced to endure vaginal probes

Before receiving an Abortion. Just responding to posters comment about Dem vs Rep rah-rah. He doesn't believe their are differences between Republicans and Democrats. But no Democrat has suggested a women be violated by a vaginal probe. Just one example of many.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #109)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:59 AM

110. oh ok

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #110)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:04 PM

111. I know, pretty poor writing on my part! Clear as mud lol

Thanks for the post, I really appreciate it.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:12 AM

32. In many cases, yes. Or I would like to say we.

At least some of the conversation has changed.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:31 AM

37. Well John Edwards talked about it during his campaign and the poor. nt

 

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:13 PM

81. That is my first thought too

that's why I supported him until...well... you know.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:32 AM

38. Income Inequality, yes

*Warning: the following post may not fit into the "hate one candidate, love the other dynamic*

That issue has been gaining momentum for a few years now. As for free college tuition, etc. Bernie brought those issues to the table.

I respect the enthusiasm of Bernie supporters, but I don't think this is the time for Bernie, yet. He's not the right candidate, and the country isn't quite far left enough. I don't say this as a dig at Bernie. For the most part, he's the same candidate as Dennis Kucinich, a candidate that couldn't even get off the ground 10 years ago.

I predict that in 20-30 years from now, we're going to look back and see a bigger picture of the country moving left since 2000: The brief success of Howard Dean and the viability of the 50 State Strategy, leading Obama catching hell for pushing the country as left as he could, a self-described Democratic Socialist in Sanders mounting a credible campaign, which which I think will ultimately culminate in a President with Sanders-like views.

I don't think Sanders is going to be the nominee, but as part of the larger war, I hope he goes as far as possible.


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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #38)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:56 AM

57. Probably Closer to the Truth

I predict that in 20-30 years from now, we're going to look back and see a bigger picture of the country moving left since 2000: The brief success of Howard Dean and the viability of the 50 State Strategy, leading Obama catching hell for pushing the country as left as he could, a self-described Democratic Socialist in Sanders mounting a credible campaign, which which I think will ultimately culminate in a President with Sanders-like views.


I don't exactly agree with this, but I do think that there are "under currents" that proceed major changes and as you suggest we may have seen some of this already. The GOP has wandered into insanity land and the system is awaiting a major shift. I'm not saying it couldn't be a Trump like shift, but it equally could be a shift towards a more progressive system. The millennials are getting screwed six ways from Sunday and are going to be responsive to discussions about college costs, and pensions, and professional work opportunities, not just "jobs". We've had an AA president and are headed towards a female candidate with a serious shot at becoming president. One of the most popular senators is a progressive woman. We have watched LGBT rights on the move, and we have a resurgent civil rights movement in the BLM population. The OWS did put the concept of the 1% into the national discourse.

Basically, we've got a lot of pieces available and are awaiting them being assembled into a major shift.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #57)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:55 PM

84. Like I have said before.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win.

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Response to firebrand80 (Reply #38)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:07 PM

65. Good big-picture view of things. I hope you're right.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:47 AM

39. This is too common a pattern on DU.

 

When OWS peetered out, the refrain changed to "We won!" Now that it's obvious that Sanders will not be President, it's "He won!"

It's still divisive, isn't it? Why does anyone need to 'win' anything against our own party? Yes, Sanders has contributed to the overall debate. So has Clinton. So has Obama. No one person wins if we all contribute.

I detest this horse-race mentality. (No offense.)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #39)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:58 PM

85. Well said

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:55 AM

40. no he has lost

dems don't care about issues.they are proving there is no place for liberals and progressives In Democratic party.

Once primarys are over Clinton will move back to center/right and be all about finding middle ground.and majority of dems
support that since they support her.

The only way for bernie to win is to win nomination and that seems unlikely to happen since too many dems are prepared to vote for her nomatter what.

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Response to Robbins (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 01:00 PM

61. Don't give up hope.

A lot can happen in a year, and we all know that it's going to take a hell of a lot more than Bernie OR Hillary to affect meaningful change in America, from our current point.

It IS going to take a revolution of sorts. We progressives are capable because science is on OUR side. They have the money but we have the masses of reasonable people who sincerely care about the future of the country.

And the world cannot wait for the time to be right for socialism in America. Mother Nature will not tolerate more abuse. And that time will never come until we the people decide we've had enough and MAKE it come!

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Response to Utopian Leftist (Reply #61)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:24 PM

67. actuly it's more like 4 months

If bernie doesn'r win both iowa and NH it's over.and he has been losing ground since debate.

only way for Bernie to win is to win nomination.otherwise this campagin has been failure.you can't move clinton left.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:55 AM

41. Or the 'Corrosive effects of money on our electoral system' - Joe Biden

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:54 AM

49. The purpose of this revolution is to take our country back from the oligarchs,

and establish a genuine working democracy.

Occupy, and Bernie, have done much to change the national dialogue. But if Bernie is not elected POTUS, the establishment corporate government will do whatever it takes to maintain the privatized idiocracy of the oligarchy.

Changing the national dialogue is a gain, but it is not victory. Victory is Bernie in the White House, and all of us working together to transform our country from an inhumane and violent profit obsessed oligarchy, into a compassionate democracy, where the interests of human beings are of primary importance.

That is what real win is.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:56 PM

70. And there's more to come! eom

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 02:58 PM

71. They're talking about that stuff, but

...Hillary Clinton still opposes free state universities, instead promising a centrist band-aid she calls "debt-free college."

I don't feel that's a victory.


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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 04:54 PM

74. It's a nice start, to be sure, but I think we deserve a COMPLETE victory

 

After 50+ decades of abuse.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 04:54 PM

75. They will talk about Bernie's issues in the campaign

but unless Bernie wins the Democratic establishment will wipe them under the rug until the next election. If you want to end the third-way pretend progressive kubuki campaigns we get every election you must vote for Bernie.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 05:04 PM

77. Yes, he has! Go Bernie! He ignores all the noise, and just keeps going! Gathering more and more

support every single day!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #77)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:18 AM

106. What I love about Bernie - he's the real deal.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:03 PM

79. Bernie is a cheater though. No billionaire to brown nose. nt

 

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:04 PM

80. K&R

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 06:31 PM

82. We can also thank Occupy Wall Street for massive public awareness of income inequality. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #82)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 09:49 PM

98. Absolutely. (n/t)

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:19 PM

89. If Bernie isn't the nominee, all the happy talk will go up in smoke after the primary.

 

I don't trust Hillary to stick to anything she says, and she will say anything to get elected.

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Response to Jester Messiah (Reply #89)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:05 AM

102. + 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!!

 


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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 08:35 PM

91. Yep. And ironically enough...

.... he couldn't have pulled off this "victory " without pretending to be a serious candidate .

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 09:35 PM

97. Maybe but WE haven't won shit. Qualified lip service doesn't mean much.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 10:07 PM

99. All Talk and Later No Walk

Of course Hillary is now talking progressive. But once elected, she will revert to her old self. Just like Obama all talk and little walk.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2015, 11:17 PM

100. except that Mrs Clinton has no intention of actually following through on her newfound

 

populism. She will meet the teabaggers 9/10 of the way.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:01 AM

101. this

"Without Bernie in the race all we would be hearing about is finding "Middle Ground" with a bunch of Tea Farty fanatics "

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:29 AM

107. No, in as much as I admire Bernie's stand, you very well know that a

lot of Americans hate that socialist word. And no matter how Bernie tries to explain what he means by being a Democratic Socialist, those assholes will never understand. He is looking to achieve fairness for all Americans, but man, those clowns on the neocon side will never understand!

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Response to FreakinDJ (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:08 PM

112. Yes.

Hillary certainly would be. O'Malley certainly would be. Oddly phrased question

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