I'm getting really sick of Hillary supporters telling me why Bernie is bad for America

[Fearless]

Really sick and fucking tired of it.

Hillary runs to the RIGHT of Bernie on EVERY issue.

Her voting history shows it.

Her public stances show it.

She is a center-right Democrat.

Bernie is a left of center Democrat.

Why is this even a debate??



--------------------------

And yes I fully expect the same six people that always respond to these threads to insert some nonsensical silliness in three... two... one...

[bkkyosemite]

1. And they like that rolling laughing thingy too

[Populist_Prole]

47. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Pathetic denial as sign they ( corporatist toadies ) are at the second stage. It'll get better; and more interesting.

[Kalidurga]

2. What do they say about Hillary parroting most of Bernie's ideas?

The ideas are swell but when Bernie has them they are bad for America. I am really confused on this issue.

[Robbins]

3. What we need

is debate on issues.and that includes where they have been.

With bernie he has been clear.Clinton hasn't always talked like she does now.She can't even decide if she is moderate or
Progressive.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. She's like a copy cat

[RobertEarl]

5. They fear the Bern!

It's like there is a cult of Hillary supporters here. They duck facts and carry on as if Bernie is just getting in the way of the coronation. As if we were not a republic but a monarchy with appointed rulers.

[Armstead]

11. Sorry to say its not a cult and not just here

A lot of people like her, and are enthusiastic about her.

We all tend to get cult-like on DU during elections.

I do not like the thought of The Clinton Industrial Complex strong-arming their way to the nomination, but its not a cult.

[RobertEarl]

22. If what you say is true

Then they need to quit acting that way.

We have a choice. More the same, or an opportunity to vote for a POTUS that will open up government to many new, young leftists who have great ideas about the future.

People need to realize that we do not appoint Kings or Queens in the USA.

[Armstead]

27. I totally agree with you, but not on the cult thing

I wish it were. But she's popular among a lot of people.

It is largely on personality and history and the fact she is female, and not on actual issues. But it is what it is.

[Bernblu]

49. She's unpopular, even among Democrats

I live in New York City and many of the people I've spoken to, mostly Democrats, do not like her and even more do not believe her. Many say, however, they will vote for her because they've brought into the conventional wisdom that she can win and they are afraid of a Republican president. The people who know Bernie like him but are afraid he can't win. I think this is the main obstacle for Bernie in winning the primary. Ironically, I think the conventional wisdom is wrong and Bernie would be the better GE candidate. It would be a shame if Democrats gave up their chance for real change and backed the weaker candidate

[cpompilo]

53. Fear based voting... Democrats are beginning to sound a lot like republicons.

Thanks Hillary and your fear mongering coronation machine.

[taught_me_patience]

6. It's the imaginary voices in your head

[Fearless]

7. Mental illness is not a joke. Please stop.

[taught_me_patience]

10. Then post some evidence for your assertion

You're interpreting things that aren't there. The vast majority of Hillary supporters on this site like and admire Bernie, but just don't feel that he'd be a better candidate than Hillary in the general (for various reasons). I have yet to see a single Hillary supporter on this site claim that they would not vote for Bernie if he were the nominee. The basis of your OP is simply not true.

[Agschmid]

13. To be fair...

I've seen a few on both sides say they won't vote for the nominee if it isn't their candidate. I think it's probably not true even for most who say that, but hey who knows.

[taught_me_patience]

16. Post a link. I'd like to see it. On this site only.

[Agschmid]

25. Which side?

[taught_me_patience]

28. The Hillary side

There are full threads of Bernie supporter proclaiming they won't vote for Hillary that has hundreds of recs.

[Agschmid]

31. Your right it does seem to be more extreme on one side...

This persons sig line is pretty close... But still isn't a direct "I won't vote for Sanders"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=313736

But people are allowed not to vote, it's just foolish IMO.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. Gosh I had one Hillary supporter tell me she'd never vote for Bernie, wants to keep her property

taxes low so she's working mostly with Republicans to get more liquor stores open. One of the most openly conservative, Republican friendly posts I have ever seen on DU. I'll remember her name eventually Gen something. I was disgusted by the post.

Personally, I blame individuals for their choices, not their candidates and certainly not other supporters of that candidate. This is because I am not a chump.

[Fearless]

17. I'm not going to argue about the quality of your judgement with comments such as...

In response to why people are so "stressed out" these days...

"Maybe they should save more?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5904241

--------------------------------

Which for the record was the first post that appeared in a DU search of your screen name.

[appalachiablue]

71. That's a real gem, 'maybe they should save more'. Unbelievable, almost.

[Live and Learn]

35. Here is one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=587175

[taught_me_patience]

45. I stand corrected. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Another

"I'm not that keen on voting anyone - at any level - back in that is currently wherever they are at. One exception - I'm working with a few (mostly republicans) to get our liquor laws changed. They are from 1949 - it's time to change things. Bring my preoperty taxes down and lets get some wine and cigar bars on our main street.

That said - point blank - I don't believe in Sanders platform or approach and I won't vote for him.

I simply won't."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251700805

Bring MY property taxes down! Working with Republicans! Dislikes Bernie!
It's in the thread.

[redstateblues]

40. They like thinking they are being victimized

By all of us mean culty corporatist Hillary supporters who are idiots in their eyes because we think HRC is better qualified even tho we like and respect Bernie.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Agree with you there. Those cracks are right up there with fat shaming.

[brooklynite]

8. Care to name one?

I've said I don't think he can win; never said he'd be "bad"...

...and I'm not aware of anyone who has.

[Skittles]

52. HERE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=721524

OH WAIT.........

[Agschmid]

9. Some of us don't do that.

Bernie is a great guy, I'm proud I helped get him elected to the Senate. I'm still sticking with my choice for the nomination, but should he win I will do everything I can to get him elected.

I guess you can end the countdown?

[taught_me_patience]

15. Most of us don't do that

The OP is pure bunk. Not a single Hillary supporter on this site, to my knowledge, has pledged to not vote for Sanders if he were the nominee. Same cannot be said for Sander's supporters who refuse to vote for Hillary if she were the nominee.

[Fearless]

18. You're changing the subject. That's not what I said.

But you don't care what I said.

Please defer future comments to the cat...

[gwheezie]

12. HRC supporter here

I was one of the people who thought he should run as a dem and I'm glad he did there's no reason I can see why he wouldn't be a good nominee. I think Hillary would be better but that's my opinion.

[NCTraveler]

14. I think Sanders is great for America. Nt

[bravenak]

19. I like him in the Senate. He pulls people left on economics.

[Fearless]

20. And social issues?

[bravenak]

21. He is far to my right on that.

I believe that pre k should be a part of free public education and that all N.A. should recieve free education through Grad School as a payback for the harm we have done them until they fully recover from genocide, along with cash payments monthly as reparations and periodic returns of more stolen land and portions of our national parks, among other things. We also need to have a month of remembrance and sorrow and honor for them and their murdered ancestors and give them more of a vioce in our government.
Not only that pass the ERA, provide more rural poverty and education assictance and more urban poverty and education programs for all ages. End the pushing out of minorities by gentrification, fund arts and music education to poor students, end defacto separate but equal. Much more.

I have so many ways he is to my right on both economics and social issues.

[Fearless]

23. So you're going to vote for Hillary who is to Bernie's right?

Help me understand the logic here?

[bravenak]

26. She is not to bernie's right on social justice.

She knows that money is not always the solution. Also, I don't think he campaigns for many in the congressional black congress or other black politicians other that Jesse Jackson, endorsing and helping to promote poc is social justice to me, help magnify our voices. Let me know if he really does campaign for more black politicians than Jesse. I cannot find anything.

[Fearless]

30. She is actually.

But you don't believe that because you bought into the "Bernie only cares about economic justice" meme.

It's simply untrue.

It is two sides of the same coin.

People should have equitable treatment under the law in both economic situations and social ones.

He's only been talking about it for fifty years.

[bravenak]

32. That is not the only measure of social justice.

There is much more to it. He has a narrow view of social justice that he has tried to expand, but he is depressing. His speeches, they depress me. He never explains the how. How will his platform or policy pass the congress? How? What is his plan to address this stuff from fifty years ago? He basically has taken his policy on racial justice straight from BLM. The same BLM who his fans hated and harassed this summer. He never addressed thevharassment, that is a aign of how he will respond to the concerns of blacks in his admin, we will have to interrupt him and heckle him to get him to notice us.

How many blacks has he campaigned for to bring them into legislating? How many? I see Jesse Jackson but this is also a measure of social justice. Where was he on hiring blacks and promoting them and campaigning for them for the lasy fifty years? In fifty years he must have campaigned for and endorsed humdreds of poc, right? I cannot find any evidence of it.

[jfern]

59. Campaign Zero says otherwise

https://www.joincampaignzero.org/s/2016trackingtool.pdf

[bravenak]

62. I am not them.

[RobertEarl]

24. You think Hillary will deliver that?

Hillary is far to the right of Bernie, so you and Bernie are like in the same boat. Keep paddling. Bernie needs you to keep paddling while he steers.

[bravenak]

29. Neither will deliver it. Both are to MY right. And look at congress. Nothing new is passing until

they are gone. To tell me Bernie can get anything passed by revolution feel like blowing smoke.

[Skidmore]

63. This!

Policy is passed in the real world and expecting Rs to jump on board for revolution other than fomenting an armed one now is naive at best.

[restorefreedom]

33. some really good issues here

have you run into any links as to how they stand on these issues? i plan to read up on the candidates as these are very important and often ignored issues. and i have not heard anyone mention the status of first nation people in a significant way, but i think your ideas are great.

[bravenak]

34. Most of my issues are not listed as actual issues. Sadly. I make tons of lists of thing I want to C.

[restorefreedom]

36. me too. but those are the kinds of things

candidates need to talk about...i mean, we know how they stand on social security, trade, guns, campaign finance, blah blah. but i would love to hear someone talk about gentrification or lifting fn people out of the poverty we collectively and ancestrally put them in and keep them in.

[bravenak]

37. I wish. That's why I feel ambivalent about politicians.

[restorefreedom]

38. i am not so ambivalent...i despise most of them...sad but true. nt

[bravenak]

41. Me too. Necessary evil. I couldn't do the job.

[restorefreedom]

42. ugh me either. not in a zillion years nt

[ucrdem]

44. Rest easy little brother

For a while it looked like Sanders was going to be King Lear, and split the party and leave Cordelia SOL on Nov 8, but then came the debate and he turned out to be the real McCoy, who roars like a lion but is gentle as a lamb:



So all's well that ends well.

[Fearless]

46. I'm not your little brother.

[Feeling the Bern]

56. Ah. . .Walter Brennan. . .one of the most conservative people in Hollywood history.

[Bluenorthwest]

67. A few words on Walter Brennan:

Always an ideological conservative, it was during this period that his political views began taking a sharp turn to the right in response to the strife he saw around him. During the '60s, he was convinced that the anti-war and civil rights movements were being run by overseas communists -- and said as much in interviews. He told reporters that he believed the civil rights movement, in particular, and the riots in places like Watts and Newark, and demonstrations in Birmingham, AL, were the result of perfectly content "Negroes" being stirred up by a handful of trouble-makers with an anti-American agenda. Those on the set of his last series, The Guns of Will Sonnett -- in which he played the surprisingly complex role of an ex-army scout trying to undo the damage caused by his being a mostly absentee father -- say that he cackled with delight upon learning of Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination in 1968. Brennan later worked on the 1972 presidential campaign of reactionary right-wing California Congressman John Schmitz, a nominee of the American Party, whose campaign was predicated on the notion that the Republican Party under Richard Nixon had become too moderate.
http://www.nytimes.com/movies/person/8313/Walter-Brennan/biography


So quite a choice you have made there!

[Populist_Prole]

48. I don't think they think Bernie "is bad for America" as such

I just think they're well-heeled "limousine liberals" who are supporting her for more or less "fanboy" ( or woman ) reasons. Boutique voters who like the idea of a socially liberal woman president.....As long as it isn't Elizabeth Warren. ( The Big $$$ donors don't like that at all )

[Skidmore]

58. "limousine liberals"???

Such a tired right wing cliche and equally shallow projection.

[stillwaiting]

61. It's very descriptive and quite valid.

Not all wealthy liberals are limousine liberals.

Limousine liberals will NOT fight for the economic well-being of the working class, middle class, and poor if it comes at any cost (perceived or actual) to their ability to amass more money. They are generally good on social issues though.

A wealthy Democrat that fights for economic policies that will benefit the wealthy at the expense of everyone else (i.e. right-wing) while being socially liberal is a limousine liberal. They think of themselves as liberals, they call themselves liberals, but on economic issues they are not liberals. At all. They are a huge obstacle to actual progressive reforms in this country.

[Populist_Prole]

68. Excellent summation n/t

[Skittles]

50. I AM SICK OF BOTH SIDES

YES INDEED

[Hydra]

51. There's a very real fear of changing the status quo here

That's a lot of what I see among the disrupters and naysayers- "I'm happy with how things are, don't you dare rock my boat!"

Sorry, the boat is sinking. If you want to go down with it, jump off the side now and let us try to bail it out.

[RandySF]

54. So we are to just shut up and listen to you tell us what's wrong with Hillary?

[chillfactor]

55. And I am really getting sick of Sander's supporters telling me why Hillary is bad for America....

you Sanders supporters are bad for Bernie's image....

[Fawke Em]

69. I think Hillary's smug and condescending attitudes are bad for hers. eom

[zappaman]

57. Ok. n/t

[djean111]

60. Why care what Hillary supporters say, at all? I don't.

It is just the usual primaries bullshit, trying to dishearten or whatever. Any more, I feel like Ginger the dog (Gary Larson, bless him!) or Fluffy the cat - all I hear is "blah blah blah BERNIE blah blah HILLARY!!!! blah blah blah BERNIE'S SUPPORTERS blah blah blah!". None of it is designed to to make anyone change their mind on issues or support. Because to think that would be the result of condescension and ridicule would be unhinged.

[DCBob]

65. Not necessarily bad but simply naive and unrealistic.

Bernie has some great ideas and has pushed for some great things to strive for but the reality is much of it simply cant be done. There are some powerful forces on the right that cannot be overcome easily. We need a strong experienced intelligent pragmatic leader who knows the ropes and knows how to get things done. Hillary is that person... Bernie is not.

[onehandle]

70. BERNIE IS BAD FOR AMERICA

Now you have a post to link to to support your bullshit thread title.















I'm talking about Bernie Kopell, btw.

[img][/img]