2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary being a "copycat" is a good thing - more please!
Yeah, it's frustrating to watch an establishment figure trumpeted for ambling easily up the trails that others, largely ignored, took risks to blaze: gay rights; corporate-focused trade agreements; private prisons; Keystone; and on and on forever. But being the shifty late arrival to mass movement ideals after the struggle for legitimacy has been fought is all you can expect of members of the establishment.
Who expects establishment pols to stake out high-risk lonely positions? May as well expect a dog to speak, or a cat to listen. It is expectation against the thing's nature - every sinew and synapse of it.
This is an establishment trait because it works - it rewards the ambitious with power and money. Enlistment in uncertain struggles and resignation to obscurity just are not in their nature. This is not at all limited to Hillary of course, and it's not to say establishment pols don't have ideals, feelings or thoughts - these are just subordinated to goals of personal elevation and public prominence, denominated in money or power. The ideals are still in there and still have influence, or there would be no Democrats.
Bernie obviously hews far more to the idealistic side, taking some lonely and risky positions but maintaining enough establishment in him to be elected Senator. Idealist upsets against the establishment are supremely rare in a race for positions of power and accumulation of money.
When it comes to deciding the paths establishment pols use to pursue money or power, however, idealists are the natural rulers there. We've come off a period of "Great Moderation" - the establishment succeeded in controlling their own paths to success for a time, leading to public apathy and the Great Recession. Now people are grasping after idealism again in any form, and the establishment is going to run to where the idealists arrive safely. Establishment GOP candidates will talk fences and deportations, establishment Democratic candidates will talk de-privatizing prisons and scuttling trade agreements. This would seem nuts 15 years ago.
That Bernie was on board earlier with many now-safe ideals, in some cases much earlier, than Hillary should come as no surprise; however, it's no bad thing to have idealists like Bernie (and more importantly the ones who blazed the trail for Bernie!) pressuring establishment figures and guiding them up that trail. After all, establishment figures are very likely to win. It's what they're best at. If they end up winning after ambling to a spot where socialism has made a comeback in public perception, that's no bad thing! They still won't be socialist, but they might be a lot better! Call it the "I support civil unions" of socialism.
Bernie's correct that the best president with the best progressive ideals could do nothing without a mass movement, as plenty of pressure exists from the reactionaries whether any mass movement exists or not. An establishment president can be an awesome president with the right amount of pressure from us - much better than an incredible idealist wonder-unicorn president without that pressure. The establishment will maintain a majority (in whatever party) and simply laugh at him/her.
To be clear, I support the wonder-unicorn, and Bernie's the best I've seen in some time. We're still likelier to get the establishment figure. If we've made it necessary to oppose Keystone, TPP and private prisons, at least in the primary, the next aim should be to make it necessary to publicly support expanding Social Security.
The stronger and more specific the primary promise on this and other issues ("any plan I sign ... must include a public option" notwithstanding), the better Hillary will be as president. She's very smart and tough. Can we agree that if she fails to be utterly consistent with 2002 establishment Hillary, or with 2010 Hillary on some issues, that can often be a VERY GOOD THING?
azmom
(5,208 posts)Progressive now, that's all wonderful and good, but what about after the election.
And what of her donors, what type of influence will they exert after the election.
No, thank you.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)We know she's not really for any of this stuff- unless there's some sort of pressure on her in the WH, she's going to laugh and say "Just kidding!"
She leaves issues open by using words/phrases like "may", "favor", "open to", and "from what I have seen (insert issue), I disagree"
That's what a politician does when he/she know they favor the opposing side of the issue.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)She'll say and do whatever is expedient.
PoliticalMalcontent
(449 posts)Bernie can push her during the Primaries to act progressive, but once the general election comes around who will push her to be progressive? In the General Election she'll be competing for votes against one of these amazingly incompetent Republicans... Once that happens progressive Hillary will disappear and we'll get Hillary catering to centrists/independents. It's good politics, but it makes me wonder where she actually stands on the issues.
I like Bernie because I know exactly where he stands, and I like where he stands. If Independents would rather vote for the Republicans' ugly brand of Conservativism over Bernie I'd be shocked.
Also, when it comes to copy-cat politics, there's something to be said about being a leader. Right now she seems to be leading from behind. Again, politically safe, but not an indication of a strong leader who will take initiative with politically difficult decisions. Hillary WANTS this presidency. She has for a LONG time. Once she gets it I'd imagine she'll play it safe so she can make it to term #2.