Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Segami

(14,923 posts)
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:43 PM Nov 2015

In New Shock Poll, Bernie Sanders Has LANDSLIDES Over BOTH Trump and Bush




In a general election, Bernie Sanders would mop the floor with these republican clowns......



In a new McClatchy-Marist poll, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) leads Republican candidate Donald Trump by a landslide margin of 12 percentage points, 53 to 41. In the McClatchy poll, Sanders also leads former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) by a landslide margin of 10 points, 51 to 41.

The huge Sanders advantage over Trump is not new. In the last four match-up polls between them reported by Real Clear Politics, Sanders defeated Trump by margins of 12, 9, 9 and 2 percentage points. The huge Sanders advantage over Bush is new. In previous match-ups, the polling showed Sanders and Bush running virtually even, with Bush holding a 1-point lead over Sanders in most of the polls. Future polls will be needed to test whether the huge Sanders lead over Bush in the McClatchy poll will be repeated in future polling or whether the McClatchy poll is an outlier.

It is shocking that the data suggests that Sanders has a lead over Trump that could be so huge that he would win a landslide victory in the presidential campaign, with margins that would almost certainly lead Democrats to regain control of the Senate and could help Democrats regain control of the House of Representative — if, of course, the three polls that show Sanders beating Trump by 9 to 12 points reflect final voting in the presidential election. It would be equally shocking if future polling shows that the Sanders lead over Bush remains at landslide margins. For today, there are two issues these polls present. First, the national reporting of the presidential campaign completely fails to reflect Sanders's strength in a general election, especially against Trump, and against Bush as well.

Second, and perhaps more important, Sanders's strength in general election polling gives credence to the argument I have been making in recent years, that American voters favor progressive populist positions which, if taken by Democrats in the general election, would lead to a progressive populist Democratic president and far greater Democratic strength in Congress.



cont'

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/259812-in-new-shock-poll-sanders-has-landslides-over-both
81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
In New Shock Poll, Bernie Sanders Has LANDSLIDES Over BOTH Trump and Bush (Original Post) Segami Nov 2015 OP
Clinton takes Trump by fifteen and Bush by eight in that poll. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #1
Don't see what's shocking about the poll. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2015 #7
I DO!! But no one is talking about it!! SkyDaddy7 Nov 2015 #79
True that. mmonk Nov 2015 #20
Neither Trump or Bush will be the nominee. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #22
I fully agree. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #23
Not will Hillary don't worry. Fearless Nov 2015 #26
Maybe the Republicans will find that "Generic Republican" that does well in the polls.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #70
I tried to make this point yesterday but floriduck Nov 2015 #2
Real progressive vs. fake progressive. Segami Nov 2015 #6
The real question is which way do you want the party to go? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #41
Yay for that! vlakitti Nov 2015 #42
I support Bernie but it is ludicrous to think Bernie will receive more cross-overs than Hillary LonePirate Nov 2015 #18
No it's not. Fearless Nov 2015 #27
noop stonecutter357 Nov 2015 #75
I see many comments from right wingers on other MBs that they RESPECT Bernie as being honest!... cascadiance Nov 2015 #28
I think the reverse is ludicrous. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #29
How many Republican women will vote for Hillary? floriduck Nov 2015 #30
I completely disagree with your assessment. Look at every red state poll for proof. LonePirate Nov 2015 #33
Yes, I see your thought process. floriduck Nov 2015 #57
This thinking is detatched from reality. Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #34
And you think the theory of more repubs voting for Bernie is based on reality? LonePirate Nov 2015 #37
Partisan republicans might not come over en masse Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #40
I think you're wrong... tex-wyo-dem Nov 2015 #50
Thank you for shedding more light on this. floriduck Nov 2015 #58
You're welcome! tex-wyo-dem Nov 2015 #80
I'm MUCH more interested in electing a GOOD, DEMOCRATIC President. bvar22 Nov 2015 #39
Wrong, Hillary has practically ZERO crossover appeal. Bernie has intense support from disillusioned sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #45
That's not what I'm seeing among my independent and sane Republican friends Blue_In_AK Nov 2015 #46
REPUBS HATE, I repeat, HATE Hillary with a burning passion. There's no way on this green Earth in_cog_ni_to Nov 2015 #47
My fear, too: Hillary will GALVANIZE mass quantities of Republicans... Beartracks Nov 2015 #74
Hillary's ties to the banks only attract latte liberals - TBF Nov 2015 #54
Strange; this poll shows both to be about equally, and easily, electable whatthehey Nov 2015 #51
Actually it was a jury that had your post hidden. Agschmid Nov 2015 #55
they've been so obsessed with policing the party line on DU since 2001 that they've forgotten MisterP Nov 2015 #71
I am not sure why it is shocking (not sure if the title is from the Hill or Brent Budowski) Mass Nov 2015 #3
In even more shocking news frazzled Nov 2015 #4
Nevertheless, I expect many HRC supporters will still insist she's more electable (n/t) thesquanderer Nov 2015 #9
Should Sanders ever have the GOP's big guns turned on him, his electability will Persondem Nov 2015 #10
There are a very limited number of republicans and they always vote. Half-Century Man Nov 2015 #17
Except that Bernie's points take explaining and the GOP hit pieces can be done in sound bites Persondem Nov 2015 #24
You do realize a huge portion of the American population Half-Century Man Nov 2015 #32
Anybody who believes the two parties are similar isn't paying attention mythology Nov 2015 #56
A lot of people aren't paying attention. Half-Century Man Nov 2015 #63
Yep, you certainly have that right. Short attention spans and 200 channels of crap = Persondem Nov 2015 #65
It was the widely-held perception that the two parties are both the same, Utopian Leftist Nov 2015 #60
Your first point may have been a strategic consideration in the 200 loss, but Persondem Nov 2015 #64
The USA is far from moderate. Utopian Leftist Nov 2015 #69
I have a couple of comments about your post Samantha Nov 2015 #73
Thank you for the info. I did not know that about Tenn. as regards the 2000 election Persondem Nov 2015 #81
I think the point is frazzled Nov 2015 #11
Kickin' with gusto! Faux pas Nov 2015 #5
K/R UglyGreed Nov 2015 #8
Get thee to the greatest page! Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #12
McClatchy/Marist Poll: Hillary Clinton Leads All Republicans Nationally...This is your same poll... riversedge Nov 2015 #13
This post is not about Hillary... Segami Nov 2015 #15
Hillary has also gone through the vetting process at the national level. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #21
yes. agree. riversedge Nov 2015 #25
What we're seeing here is that the GOP is not a factor in the 2016 election Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #35
I've been saying it, too, but some people need the GOP to be a factor to sell their candidate. winter is coming Nov 2015 #52
Anyone on our side beating a repub is good news to me. tishaLA Nov 2015 #14
And, yet, despite the facts, the false rumor that... bvar22 Nov 2015 #16
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #31
Can't be. He's unelectable and doesn't look presidential. tk2kewl Nov 2015 #19
So much for the electability arguement... blackspade Nov 2015 #36
Go Bernie! SoapBox Nov 2015 #38
Doesn't surprise me at all bluestateguy Nov 2015 #43
Nice for both of them but national polls mean zip Gloria Nov 2015 #44
Wait..wait...wait! He's unelectable!! Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #48
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #66
Crossover votes AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #49
It's still early, but Bush is looking more and more irrelevant with each debate. merrily Nov 2015 #53
It's only a shock to those bleating otherwise. Fearless Nov 2015 #59
K&R leftcoastmountains Nov 2015 #61
Go Bernie! azmom Nov 2015 #62
But how reliable is any poll. I WOULD LOVE BERNIE TO BE PRESIDENT.....LOVE IT onecent Nov 2015 #67
So the whole "Hillary is the only one who can win" was bullshit. Color me unsurprised. n/t winter is coming Nov 2015 #68
Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #72
typical Bernie supporter. stonecutter357 Nov 2015 #76
First things first. If he can win the nomination NurseJackie Nov 2015 #77
Bernie pulls very strong among Independents and pissed-off Republicans 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #78

SkyDaddy7

(6,045 posts)
79. I DO!! But no one is talking about it!!
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 11:50 AM
Nov 2015

The fact that Ben Carson is doing so good vs Hillary...Could not find any data vs Sanders but I would imagine it would be similar. Hopefully this is changing now that people are learning what a QUACK Carson is?!?!?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
23. I fully agree.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:46 PM
Nov 2015

That in itself makes things more interesting. I truly have no clue who it is going to be. They are going to have to start gaining name recognition in the general itself. The other positive aspect, is their other candidate, similar Sanders, will have never been vetted at the national level. The first months will be the vetting of a new person. That is always fun on the national stage.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
2. I tried to make this point yesterday but
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:51 PM
Nov 2015

one of Hill's fans had my post deleted because they thought I said I'd take Trump over Hill. My point was and is that she is NOT electable, contrary to her followers.

I said I was voting for Bernie, even in the GE, because he is the only one that represents my interests. And if Hill beats him in the primary, she may well lose to a GOPer. Polls mean very little because they only represent Dem voters. But Bernie will get cross-over votes. That is why he is the BEST matchup against any Republican.

 

Segami

(14,923 posts)
6. Real progressive vs. fake progressive.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:57 PM
Nov 2015

Truthful candidate vs. lying candidate.

Democratic Socialist vs. Third Way New Democrat

Who best represents you?

Is it so complicated?


 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
41. The real question is which way do you want the party to go?
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:27 PM
Nov 2015

Some actually WANT the Democrats to represent Wall Street since the Republicans have come to represent angry white guys in funny hats.

LonePirate

(13,420 posts)
18. I support Bernie but it is ludicrous to think Bernie will receive more cross-overs than Hillary
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:33 PM
Nov 2015

Bernie has the better economic message but it does not surpass the enticement and history making opportunity to elect a female President.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
28. I see many comments from right wingers on other MBs that they RESPECT Bernie as being honest!...
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:08 PM
Nov 2015

... whereas most of them don't trust Hillary Clinton, even far more than many of us Bernie supporters here. I think he wins many independents and Republicans on that note alone, and so is isn't "ludicrous" to believe that he'll get more crossover votes. I get the feeling even if they feel that there are lot of issues that they disagree with him on, when it comes to certain ones such as TPP, etc. where he has a lot stronger viewpoint and record rejecting than any other presidential candidate from either party, that he will potentially get their vote if they perceive him honestly working for that goal.

The "socialist" thing won't be the deciding factor that the corporatist media wants it to be to help those that pay for their campaign ad dollars or the small number of large companies that own it.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
29. I think the reverse is ludicrous.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:09 PM
Nov 2015

Republicans have decades of hate invested in the Clinton brand, where Sanders wasn't even on their radar. And he's already attracting all sorts of interest on the right, even beating out the Republican candidates in New Hampshire in THEIR primary, among THEIR voters.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
30. How many Republican women will vote for Hillary?
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:38 PM
Nov 2015

I'll take a wild guess at zero. But I can see a lot of Indies and GOP women voting for Bernie because he represents their interests more than any GOP candidate.

LonePirate

(13,420 posts)
33. I completely disagree with your assessment. Look at every red state poll for proof.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:55 PM
Nov 2015

Like it or not, Clinton is crushing Sanders in pretty much every poll conducted in red states. If your hypothesis is true, Repubs would need to be more willing to cross a larger political spectrum gap to vote for Bernie than they would be to vote for Clinton, whom some of their neighbors support and is closer to them ideologically. Repubs are cowardly, pack animals. They seldom make bold, courageous moves and they certainly do not want to appear out of step with their family and social circles, especially in the south. Supporting Bernie is simply not psychologically possible for many of them.

Bernie's message will resonate with some Republicans, at least those who value their lives over political identity or other nonsense (like that spouted by the poor voters in KY who voted for Bevin despite his vows to eliminate their health insurance). That bridge is simply too far to travel for most Repubs.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
57. Yes, I see your thought process.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 05:50 PM
Nov 2015

But it is faulty in my opinion. Polls in Red or Blue states only poll one political party. South Carolina's numbers favor Hillary based on polls of Democrats! Have you never heard of people voting against their party because they say their party left them? It happens every election. I'm not saying they will do so in ungodly numbers. But it happens.

LonePirate

(13,420 posts)
37. And you think the theory of more repubs voting for Bernie is based on reality?
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:16 PM
Nov 2015

Repubs do not cross over, by and large, based on economic reasons. The entire premise that fiscally conservative Repubs are going to cross over en masse to vote for the candidate that the complete antithesis of their core economic values is preposterous to say the least.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
80. You're welcome!
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 12:17 PM
Nov 2015

👍

Seriously, the RW (those who identify themselves as conservative, republican, RW, etc) is not one homogeneous blob, just like the LW isn't. Most are as, or more, sick of the establishment as we are and many of those don't buy into what Trump/Carson/Bush/Rubio are trying to sell them. Many would consider Bernie as a good alternative.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
39. I'm MUCH more interested in electing a GOOD, DEMOCRATIC President.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:20 PM
Nov 2015

Gender is worthless in determining my vote.
After all, Sarah Palin is a woman,
so is Michele Bachmann,
so is Mean Jean Schmidt,
so is Diane Feinstein.

Gender does NOT confer some special Presidential ability on anyone.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
45. Wrong, Hillary has practically ZERO crossover appeal. Bernie has intense support from disillusioned
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:33 PM
Nov 2015

voters across the political spectrum.

In the only poll I've seen so far of JUST registered Independents, now the largest registered 'party' in the country as both parties lose membership, Bernie defeats Hillary which makes sense. Independent registered voters are not going to elect someone who represents all the reasons WHY they are registered Independents.

And then there are non voters, out of the system BECAUSE they do not believe either party represents them.

We've been signing up these non voters for Bernie since the beginnning, now feeling they HAVE someone that actually speaks for them.

Republicans, sick of the extremism in their own party, and opposed to the wars etc, are also coming over to Bernie.

What IS ludicrous to say is that Hillary has much if any appeal to any of these demographics.

Her appeal is limited to the base of the Dem Party which is now just 32% of registered voters and Bernie has already cut into that demographic also.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
46. That's not what I'm seeing among my independent and sane Republican friends
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:34 PM
Nov 2015

(yes, there are occasional sane Republicans) most of whom support Bernie.



in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
47. REPUBS HATE, I repeat, HATE Hillary with a burning passion. There's no way on this green Earth
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:56 PM
Nov 2015

ANY Repubs will be voting for Hillary. And Independents left the Democratic Party BECAUSE OF THE THIRD WAY THAT TOOK OVER THE PARTY! Hillary IS Third Way. She and her husband started the DLC.

The Repubs will be coming out in droves to vote AGAINST her, not FOR her. Whereas, most Independents and disenfranchised Repubs, WILL GLADLY VOTE FOR BERNIE.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

Beartracks

(12,809 posts)
74. My fear, too: Hillary will GALVANIZE mass quantities of Republicans...
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 03:25 AM
Nov 2015

... to run, not walk, RUN to the polls en masse to keep her out of office.

Bernie, on the other hand, not so much. He may even steal significant votes from the Republican candidate.

===================

TBF

(32,058 posts)
54. Hillary's ties to the banks only attract latte liberals -
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 05:34 PM
Nov 2015

ie conservatives that are socially liberal. The right-wing will turn out en masse to defeat her. When I voted for Obama in the 2008 primary there were republicans in line voting for him because they would rather have him than Clinton (in Texas we have an open primary). I'm not under any wild illusions that we can turn Texas blue in 2016 - but I think in the general we have a shot at cross-over votes.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
51. Strange; this poll shows both to be about equally, and easily, electable
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 04:15 PM
Nov 2015

So do you believe it for Sanders but not Clinton? On what rational basis?

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
71. they've been so obsessed with policing the party line on DU since 2001 that they've forgotten
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 11:44 PM
Nov 2015

that there's a meatspace outside of it: they really do think that if Clinton loses the general it'll be because of the 100,000+ active DUers here (even subtracting the 10% diehard Clintonistas, and the 80% of Sandernistas who'll hold their noses, and the 80% of those not in swing states)

the notion that the commoners that Sanders mobilized wouldn't be enthused by Clinton can't really enter their heads: they think "Sanders mobilized for the Democrats, they're safe Dem voters"

Mass

(27,315 posts)
3. I am not sure why it is shocking (not sure if the title is from the Hill or Brent Budowski)
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

There are many polls showing the same thing. Most polls show Sanders competitive in the general election.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
4. In even more shocking news
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

from the exact same poll, Clinton would also "mop the floor" with Trump and Bush (Trump by 15 points, as opposed to Sanders' 12; Bush by 8 points, as opposed to Sanders' 10). Essentially, given MOE, they BOTH trounce Trump and Bush by about the same amounts.

In other words, the shocking news is that any DEMOCRATIC candidate will beat these two jokers.

Next ...

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
10. Should Sanders ever have the GOP's big guns turned on him, his electability will
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:10 PM
Nov 2015

take a serious hit. Tax and spend socialist ads write themselves. They are being relatively nice to him because they would rather face him in the GE.

Clinton is still kicking their butts even with the GOP taking shots at her for 20+ years. Her current electability is more of a floor whereas Sanders's is more like a ceiling.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
17. There are a very limited number of republicans and they always vote.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:28 PM
Nov 2015

There are huge numbers of people who do not vote (for various reasons) who are being inspired by the populism of Bernie Sanders.
So, we will get the votes from Democrats who usually vote, the Democrats who vote during Presidential races, the Democrats who are worried about a Clinton dynasty, new voters inspired to the election by populism, cross over republicans tired/scared of the tea party manics, independent voters who now feel like someone they have been associated with in the past has a chance, and nearly everyone who relies on the social safety net.
We vastly out number them. We just need to be brought together. Something the DNCC and the Third Way have been unable to do.


Every hit piece the RWNJs can spin can be reversed to hurt them. In some cases attacking Bernie Sanders on policies might be the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot with a grenade launcher.

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
24. Except that Bernie's points take explaining and the GOP hit pieces can be done in sound bites
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:03 PM
Nov 2015

bumper stickers and pictures. People do not have much of an attention span these days so a picture with Marx, Mao and Sanders and a few choice words about socialism is all it takes to bring down Sanders.

"We just need to be brought together. Something the DNCC and the Third Way have been unable to do."


Not sure about this. You do realize that Dems have won 5 of the last 6 popular votes in the GE.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
32. You do realize a huge portion of the American population
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 02:51 PM
Nov 2015

Last edited Wed Nov 11, 2015, 07:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Feels left out and doesn't vote because both parties feel so similar.
We the political fanatics see the difference clearly, most people not so much.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
63. A lot of people aren't paying attention.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 07:43 PM
Nov 2015

That is my point.
We are here because we live and breath this shit. A fairly large portion of the population isn't as dedicated as us. Due to a variety of factors (Telcom act of 1996, the continual erosion of the middle class for the last forty years no matter which party had majorities/POTUS, elimination of civics classes, popular culture, etc) the American public is....disenchanted, with American government.


I hold that that disenchantment was intentionally grafted onto the American public. Moneyed interests do far better when voter turnout is low.
The only way the DNCC could lose so much in one decade is by intent.

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
65. Yep, you certainly have that right. Short attention spans and 200 channels of crap =
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 08:43 PM
Nov 2015

uninformed non-voters.

Utopian Leftist

(534 posts)
60. It was the widely-held perception that the two parties are both the same,
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 07:06 PM
Nov 2015

which caused Democrats to lose the White House in 2000. Had the majority of the public realized what huge differences actually exist, Shrubya would never have been President. Never.

But after eight years of Clinton's compromising away the baby with the bathwater, few of us were certain anymore that such a huge difference did exist. Now we know better, or should know better, but there are still millions of voters confused by the likes of Hillary and Obama, who have both admitted to being moderates.

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
64. Your first point may have been a strategic consideration in the 200 loss, but
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 08:42 PM
Nov 2015

would be difficult to quantify. Tere were some other tactical consideration that did measureable damage to Gore chances: He didn't carry his home state, he lost NH and FL by a margin of less than the number of Nader votes, Gore not pushing for a full recount, and FL's unlawful voter purge all could be said to have influenced the outcome in 2000. Nevertheless, Dems did win the popular vote that year.

Also, the USA is a moderate country that leans one way or the other so a moderate candidate is a good fit.

Utopian Leftist

(534 posts)
69. The USA is far from moderate.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 09:08 PM
Nov 2015

We have been pulled so far to the right that a "moderate Democrat" like Obama is really a Republican, even Barack Obama has admitted as much.

You are accepting a main$tream media meme: that the US is a moderate country. But in fact, polls show that the public supports the positions of Social Democrats by an overwhelming majority. For the past 30 years we have been pulled far-right, and now is our one and only real chance to fight the oligarchy and change that mess.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
73. I have a couple of comments about your post
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 01:54 AM
Nov 2015

Gore did not carry Tennessee because Rove especially targeted Tennessee for a win simply to embarrass Gore. The margin by which Bush* carried Tennessee was not all that great, I think it was about 40,000 (just something like that). But what a lot of people never really realized was that Tennessee was riddled with the same type of voting "irregularities" that waffled through Florida. It was in fact for voter suppression "a little Florida." I only am aware of this because my family is from Tennessee and I read about a number of the shyster tricks Republicans played down there. Eventually, some of these complaints were investigated by the government and settled, just as those in Florida were. Long, long voting lines at polling places where African-Americans were in the majority, reduced number of places to cast ballots, people turned away because they didn't have required id, polls closing while long lines where still in place and subsequent court complaints -- you name it, and it happened.

Gore did not push for a full recount because that was not an option presented in the State constitution. The only way to obtain a full state recount was by court order (which eventually came down the Florida Supreme Court) or by permission of the Governor (and we remember who the Governor of Florida was at that time). The Florida Supreme Court should have had the last word on this election dispute as the rules for conducting Presidential elections are defined in our U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Supreme Court had no, I repeat no, Constitutional authority to intervene as long as the State of Florida conducted the election according to election laws previously written into the Constitution (which Gore was following and the Republicans were not).

And once the U.S. Supreme Court usurped the matter, the two laws it used to justify stopping the recount were nothing but bullsh*t. That Safe Harbor law (the one setting the deadline for when the slate of electors had to be submitted to the Elector College) was originally written when states forwarded their slates to the electors BY PONY EXPRESS. So the law was written to mandate the couriers be dispatched in a timely manner by the riders on horseback. There was plenty of time for that recount to have been conducted and the slate sent to the Electoral College. Secondly, that equal protection law stating that the voters whose votes might be recaptured in a recount would carry more weight than the votes of the original voters that were counted, and thus the original voters would be discriminated against should a recount change the result of the election. And in that latter statement, the Supreme Court negated the 5 million popular vote advantage Al Gore had over Bush* nationwide. So if one is to give any nod of agreement to the Supreme Court's falling back on that asinine equal protection plank, how does that same person justify the nullification of the 5 million votes on a national basis that rationale generated.

Sorry for the length of this post, but this is one subject that always pushes my buttons....

Sam

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
81. Thank you for the info. I did not know that about Tenn. as regards the 2000 election
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 05:54 PM
Nov 2015

And indeed, SCOTUS sure screwed the pooch ... and the whole country.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
11. I think the point is
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:11 PM
Nov 2015

Theoretical Democratic nominees are beating theoretical Republican nominees.

The reality is, you have to actually become the Democratic nominee first to do it. And right now, at this point in time, that is not looking likely for Sanders. And I don't think that simply by convincing people that Sanders could beat x or y R candidate is going to change that very much. There are way too many other factors at play, including the candidates' organizational efforts, their outreach, their performances and demeanors, etc. I also don't think that the nostrum offered so often here—that people don't really know him, and once they hear him they will certainly be won over (in conjunction with being convinced he could perform well in the general)—is particularly working either. That didn't happen with the first debate or the forum, or with the many many TV appearances ... thus far.

I'll be happy to eat my words on all this if things suddenly change. But I am trying to look at reality here. Magical thinking is not my bag.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
12. Get thee to the greatest page!
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:12 PM
Nov 2015

Those who care about electabiliuty should know this, and no two ways about it.

riversedge

(70,208 posts)
13. McClatchy/Marist Poll: Hillary Clinton Leads All Republicans Nationally...This is your same poll...
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:16 PM
Nov 2015




http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/9/1447820/-McClatchy-Marist-Poll-Hillary-Clinton-Leads-All-Republicans-Nationally

McClatchy/Marist Poll: Hillary Clinton Leads All Republicans Nationally

By DerekJack30

Monday Nov 09, 2015 4:02 PM CST


According to a new McClatchy/Marist poll of 1465 voters, Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and even Ben Carson, their strongest (of course if he doesn’t collapse under the weight of imaginary stabbings and pyramids full of grain)
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton McClatchy/Marist Clinton 56, Trump 41 Clinton +15
General Election: Carson vs. Clinton McClatchy/Marist Carson 48, Clinton 50 Clinton +2
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton McClatchy/Marist Clinton 50, Rubio 45 Clinton +5
General Election: Bush vs. Clinton McClatchy/Marist Clinton 52, Bush 44 Clinton +8
General Election: Cruz vs. Clinton McClatchy/Marist Clinton 53, Cruz 43 Clinton +10
General Election: Fiorina vs. Clinton McClatchy/Marist Clinton 53, Fiorina 43 Clinton +10

Beautiful! ..........................

Marist polls are rated rather well by 538. BTW, if the election is a 15 point landslide, I predict a good electoral map.
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
21. Hillary has also gone through the vetting process at the national level.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:42 PM
Nov 2015

Very strong numbers for democrats.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
35. What we're seeing here is that the GOP is not a factor in the 2016 election
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:13 PM
Nov 2015

Hey, I've been saying that all year.

The next president will be chosen in Philadelphia.

I'm for the democrat, not the corporatist.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
52. I've been saying it, too, but some people need the GOP to be a factor to sell their candidate.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 04:17 PM
Nov 2015

"Lesser of two evils" doesn't work well if you know evil's gonna lose.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
16. And, yet, despite the facts, the false rumor that...
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 01:22 PM
Nov 2015

...that Bernie can't win the General persists.

Time to bury THAT dead horse.

Response to bvar22 (Reply #16)

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
43. Doesn't surprise me at all
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:30 PM
Nov 2015

Why? Because as he is in 2nd place, Bernie Sanders is not being subjected to the same level of scrutiny--from the media and from Republicans-- as Hillary.

If Bernie were to become the frontrunner, that would obviously change, as would the head to head poll numbers.

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
44. Nice for both of them but national polls mean zip
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:32 PM
Nov 2015

It's about each state, and very few at that...and it will be a close race ....

Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #48)

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
49. Crossover votes
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 04:03 PM
Nov 2015

A Republican I work with the other day said he would vote Sanders over any Republican. Because of his stance on marijuana. I asked him about Hillary's 'Me too!' and he said he hadn't heard it yet lol.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
53. It's still early, but Bush is looking more and more irrelevant with each debate.
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 04:44 PM
Nov 2015

Trump, on the other hand, is still strong and is likely to be stronger as Dr. Nutcase continues to make an a$$ of himself.

onecent

(6,096 posts)
67. But how reliable is any poll. I WOULD LOVE BERNIE TO BE PRESIDENT.....LOVE IT
Wed Nov 11, 2015, 08:46 PM
Nov 2015

but i think the powers that be will have the final say so...
and IT WILL BE HILARY.

i can only say THANK GOD bush is only getting less than 6 percent. there is a God...
well, not really but if there were......

YIPPEE

Response to Segami (Original post)

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
78. Bernie pulls very strong among Independents and pissed-off Republicans
Thu Nov 12, 2015, 11:37 AM
Nov 2015

who can't believe what's happened to their party of late.

Remember, he regularly gets 21-25% of REPUBLICAN voters in his home state, who know
him and love him, because he's the real deal.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»In New Shock Poll, Bernie...