The much maligned PPP (D) Debate Poll's findings are confirmed by CBS Debate Poll findings

[DemocratSinceBirth]

A Public Policy Polling survey of Democratic primary voters nationally who watched tonight’s debate finds that it reinforced Hillary Clinton’s front runner status. Viewers overwhelmingly think she won the debate, and particularly trust her over the rest of the Democratic field when it comes to issues of national security.

Key findings from the survey include:

-67% of voters think Clinton won the debate, to 20% for Bernie Sanders and 7% for Martin O’Malley. On a related note 63% of viewers said the debate gave them a more positive opinion of Clinton, compared to 41% who said it gave them a more positive opinion of Sanders, and 37% who said it gave them a more positive opinion of O’Malley.

-Clinton is by a wide margin the candidate debate watchers trust the most on national security issues. 75% say they have the most faith in Clinton on that front, compared to only 17% for Sanders, and 5% for O’Malley. National security issues were a primary focus tonight in the aftermath of yesterday’s tragedy in France, and Democratic voters by far and away trust Clinton the most on that issue.

-What’s particularly striking is how universal the sentiment that Clinton won the debate tonight is among all the different groups within the Democratic Party. 86% of African Americans, 73% of women, 70% of moderates, 69% of seniors, 67% of Hispanics, 65% of liberals, 61% of white voters, 58% of men, and 50% of younger voters all think that Clinton was the winner of tonight’s debate.



...

* This research was conducted on behalf of Correct The Record.


http://tinyurl.com/npjgrhq

Immediately after Saturday night's Democratic debate, CBS News interviewed a nationally representative sample of debate watchers assembled by GfK's Knowledge Panel who identified themselves as Democrats or independents. By a 23 point margin, these debate watchers say Hillary Clinton won the debate. Fifty-one percent say Clinton won, compared to 28 percent who favor Bernie Sanders. Just 7 percent pick Martin O'Malley as the winner. Fourteen percent called it a tie.

Among Democrats, Clinton is seen as winning by more than two to one, while independents are split between Clinton and Sanders.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-who-won-the-second-democratic-debate-november-2015-cbs-news/

Let's recount:

PPP

HRC 67%
SBS 20%
MOM 7%

CBS

HRC 51%
SBS 28%
MOM 7%

Much of the difference can be attributed to the fact that the PPP poll was of Democrats only and the CBS poll was of Democrats and independents and margin of error.

[Scuba]

1. "Rigged poll confirmed by second rigged poll." There, fixed it for ya.

Many (most?) polls are designed to influence opinion, not measure it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I agree...The only polls I trust are of my facebook friends.

[NurseJackie]

6. Oh, stop it! (You crack me up!)

Don't stop! <3

[brooklynite]

3. Since you presumably discount ALL professional polls...

...and since the polls show Clinton leading by roughly 55%-30%...

...tell us what the "real" distribution of support is. Is he ahead? Down by 10? Down by 2?

[DURHAM D]

5. Up by 100% you silly guy. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. PPP was really dragged through the mud here...

Google PPP...They were dragged through the mud in 012 by cons who hated their swing state polls showing Obama with a consistent lead...

And as I demonstrated any difference between CBS and PPP can be attributed the the fact that PPP only polled Democrats and CBS polled Democrats and independents and margin of error.

[Jarqui]

23. If PPP doesn't want to get dragged through the mud

why didn't they do their little survey for the Clinton campaign under the polling company name XXX or $$$ - not under PPP? Or tell the Clinton Super PAC to publish the poll results under their name?

They took money from the Clinton campaign to do the poll and ok it by putting the super pac's name in small print - where hopefully, not many will notice.

I don't care what their record has been in the past. There's no two ways about it. That conduct smells real bad. And because of it, no matter what anyone says, that poll is tainted for me because it appears that Hillary paid for it entirely.

I don't understand why we'd even debate such a thing. It seems to clear cut to me. Just because PPP was great yesterday doesn't mean they can sell out and be great today.

This whole thing is starting to bother me. If she keeps it up and she wins the primary, I might be gone anyway. I can't support crap like this. When you do stuff like that, to me, you're not much better than the GOP. I'm sick of it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Seems transparent to me

PPP interviewed 510 Democratic primary voters nationally by telephone after the debate
who had been pre-screened on Thursday and Friday as planning to watch the debate and
willing to give their opinions about it afterward. The survey’s margin of error is +/-4.3%.
This research was conducted on behalf of Correct The Record.

[Jarqui]

25. It didn't to me

Up until now, I basically trusted PPP. Now, I have to read the small print every time they do a poll. That's sad. Shouldn't be that way for a good polling company.

[litlbilly]

4. PPP poll = corect the record = David Brock = Hillary superpac = totally rigged

[Nye Bevan]

9. What support for Bernie would a poll have to show to make you believe it wasn't "rigged"? (nt)

[litlbilly]

34. I dont put anything into any poll now matter what it shows. I actually look more at instant online

than these rigged corporate polls because they are real people. The PPP poll is basically Hillary's superpac so it has no value at all. You all just seem to think it means something...It doesn't.

[book_worm]

14. Of course if the polls showed Bernie out front you'd embrace them.

[DCBob]

15. Right.. only click polls are accurate.

[RandySF]

20. Yes of course

Everything that doesn't go Bernie's way is the result of some kind of rigging.

[BumRushDaShow]

27. Just like this one that you happily rec'd

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251549386

[kristopher]

44. The poll was bought and paid for by HRC super pac, the other was an PPP internal poll.

There is a huge difference in reliability.

[BumRushDaShow]

45. On DU, PPP

tends to be embraced when the outcome or trend favors the distaff contender.

In essence, it triggers the



Unfortunately, DUers will cherry-pick polls for the rest of this election season.

[kristopher]

46. You'd have a point if it wasn't a hired poll.

But since they people who pay for the poll are able to have the poll structured as they wish, then you don't have a point.

If you persist in your position in spite of that knowledge, then this applies to you.

[BumRushDaShow]

47. You'd have a point if hadn't missed my point

I.e., the rampant cherry-picking of polls on DU along with all sorts of CT about each and every one that comes out. But I am not surprised by that

[Adrahil]

48. I agree Dick Morris!

Romney in a landslide The polls are all wrong!!!!!


Please post any evidence you have that Many (most?) polls are designed to influence opinion.

I don't mean anecdotal nonsense, I mean real evidence of a wide-spread phenomenon. We all know there are hack pollster out there, but they tend to reveal themselves by performing badly. How do you explain pollsters that do well?

[Scuba]

51. Most polls are not published. People are called, "questions" are asked. Job done.

No one ever knows there was a poll except those who are asked "would you vote for so-and-so if you knew he ate kittens for breakfast?"

[MADem]

8. But....but....but....!!! Those INTERNET polls!!! The ones with Saddam-like approval ratings for

The Bern!!!!

WAAAH!



Click-clear cache-click....!

Or if you're really a savvy keyboarder, you can write a program to do it for you!

Kinda hard to clone yourself to answer dozens of phones.

[Cha]

17. OMGosh.. that's where I remember those fantastic polls from .. bernie fans rigged the last

debate's online polls.. but, strangely Hillary is still beating him by wide margins. So what's up with that?

[MADem]

21. It is, apparently, easy to rig an online poll. That's why they are a joke.

I would not be surprised if they find a way to lock that ability out in future--or at least slow it down...e.g., force people to vote using a fb account, or something. Sure, people could have multiple fb accounts, but it's more work than just clearing a cache and re-voting.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52524/15-polls-hijacked-internet

[Ferd Berfel]

10. Excuse me - Where are the HIllary people getting these niumbers? Bernie won Hands down!

Here are the numbers as of 11am Sunday:


Bernie Sanders 92.43% (10,802 votes)
Hillary Clinton 5.13% (600 votes)
Martin O'Malley 2.44% (285 votes)

Total Votes: 11,687

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/11/14/poll-who-do-you-think-won-the-second-democratic-presidential-debate/
------------------

Bernie Sanders 87.48% (7,274 votes)
Hillary Clinton 8.57% (713 votes)
Martin O'Malley 3.94% (328 votes)

Total Votes: 8,315

http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/11/poll_who_won_saturdays_democratic_2016_presidential_debate.html

------------
The 3 Democratic presidential candidates took to the stage for a debate Saturday night. Who do you think won?

Bernie Sanders 80 %
Hillary Clinton 15 %
Martin O'Malley 5 %

http://time.com/4110860/democratic-debate-poll-who-won/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Those are online , opt in polls. They are not random samples and are inherently unscientific.

Rather than me explain it to you here is the e-mail address for Simon Jackman, Professor Of Political Science, at Stanford University. He is one of the leaders in his field:


Email:
[e-mail]

https://politicalscience.stanford.edu/people/simon-d-jackman


If he doesn't respond to your inquiry please send me a private message and I will find another political science professor who will

[Nye Bevan]

12. Whoa. Looks like Hillary's in real trouble.

Thanks for posting some non-rigged polls.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

28. The scary thing is that I'm not totally sure you're joking. N.T.

[Dem2]

13. Bernie kicked some serious ass!

Seems Hillary has no chance now, I expect her poll numbers to dive after this debate.

[livetohike]

16. LOL the only ass he kicked was his own for his floundering foreign policy answers. No one sees him a

Commander in Chief. Sanders came in third in this debate behind Clinton and O'Malley.

[Dem2]

19. I previously called it a 3-way tie

Nothing I've read today has changed my opinion on last nights debate.

[RandySF]

22. You're funny

[brooklynite]

26. Those internet polls are great! I voted in one three times!

I STRONGLY support Clinton, so my vote should have more weight, shouldn't it?

[wyldwolf]

32. That's a funny nod to the tea party. Well played.

[Adrahil]

49. self-select online polls?

Really? You gotta be freakin' kidding me.

[Quixote1818]

18. Not surprising, these are probably the same folks who cheered for Hillary's Wall Street 9/11 comment

It was kind of stunning how the room lit up with cheers and clapping when she made those atrocious comments. I thought Democrats were smarter than that.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. A poll showing a 23% advantage does not confirm a poll showing a 47% adavantage. It does

the opposite of that, it confirms the first poll was wildly inaccurate.

[okasha]

33. They didn't sample the same demographics.

CBS included independents. PlPP was Democrats only.

[wyldwolf]

30. Arguing with some Bernie people about polling science is like...

... arguing with some conservatives about climate science. They don't get it because they don't want to get it.

[mcar]

31. Well well well

Nice to have it confirmed.

[jfern]

35. Nope, a 47 point gap is not the same as a 23 point gap

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. One is a poll of Democrats. The other is a poll of Democrats and independents

One is a poll of Democrats. The other is a poll of Democrats and independents, the latter group where Senator sanders is appreciably stronger. There is also a MOE.

Throw in the vagaries of flash polls (look at flash polls from previous debates) and the results aren't incongruous.

[jfern]

37. The point is they're not similar.

One pollster has a lead close to that of other polls, while the other is very biased in favor of the candidate who paid for it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. What other poll?

There are only two scientific post debate polls available and they come with all the limitations of flash debate polls.

[jfern]

39. Calling that PPP poll scientific really demeans the word scientific

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Some folks seem to want to discredit every poll whose results they don't like.

It's their right. I just don't see the efficacy of holding that position...All I can say is when the actual voting begins some folks are going to have their beliefs validated and some folks are going to have their beliefs invalidated. It's a mutually exclusive proposition.

[jfern]

41. That PPP poll was only 19% under 45 and was paid for by Hillary, and was 24 points

more of a lead for her than CBS. Not a credible poll.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. I have seen several posters suggest we are about to witness a systematic failure in polling...

I will be keeping my eyes open...

That PPP poll was only 19% under 45 and was paid for by Hillary, and was 24 points

Maybe, maybe not... The median age for debate viewers is around sixty one years old so debate viewership skews older. Autosearch is off or I would find the link. Riversedge posted it.

[jfern]

43. That 61 was for people who watched it on TV

Younger people are more likely to stream it. Anyways, that PPP poll simply isn't credible. The CBS poll will suffer from the limitations of a one day Saturday poll, but isn't paid propaganda for some campaign.

[DCBob]

50. They are both big for Hillary.

That's the point.

[jfern]

52. The WSJ poll has Bernie up

[DCBob]

53. Online poll that also had Bernie up last debate.. which was completely wrong.

I think we can easily dismiss that one.

[jfern]

54. The CBS one was also online

And the Hillary campaign paid for PPP. So then we're left with 0 polls.

[DCBob]

55. I wouldn't throw out all on-line polls but the WSJ/Google Consumer Survey has a bad track record.

They were completely wrong last time. That's why I would throw them out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. The only polls I trust are the ones I conduct of my facebook friends.

[brooklynite]

57. So poll commissioned by CORRECT THE RECORD: BAD; poll commissioned by the WSJ: GOOD

Politics is complicated.