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Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:00 PM

I support Bernie because the Democratic Party leadership is long overdue for a shakeup

Since Bernie Sanders announced his candidacy I have heard many people question his party loyalty.

I am going to speak a truth that a lot of party loyalists don't want to hear, but the reality is that a huge number of us who consistently vote Democratic do not particularly like the Democratic Party establishment.

We don't vote Democratic because we believe the candidates we are presented with represent us, we vote Democratic because the Republicans are even worse.

I know that I am not alone in thinking that the leadership of the Democratic Party is terrible. The money that has flowed to the top Democrats from corporate interests have thoroughly corrupted the leadership and the party is in desperate need of a house cleaning.

That is a big part of the reason I support Bernie Sanders, because I don't want a President who is loyal to the party establishment, I want a President that is loyal to progressive values.

I know Bernie will shake things up in the party leadership if given the opportunity, and I am sure that is a big part of the reason he is not getting many endorsements from establishment Democrats. The establishment knows that if he becomes President he is going to want big changes in the party leadership, and they don't want a change to the system they personally benefit from.

While the establishment may not want a shakeup, I know I am far from alone in saying that I do want a shakeup.

I want a party leadership who puts progressive values above big donors. I want a party leadership that stands up for what is right and does not sell out the rich and powerful.

We need a President that will shake up the party leadership and Bernie is the only candidate that I can see doing that, that is one of the many reasons why I support him.

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Reply I support Bernie because the Democratic Party leadership is long overdue for a shakeup (Original post)
Bjorn Against Dec 2015 OP
Bonobo Dec 2015 #1
slipslidingaway Dec 2015 #3
aidbo Dec 2015 #14
Maedhros Dec 2015 #35
HerbChestnut Dec 2015 #2
Triana Dec 2015 #4
Paka Dec 2015 #5
marym625 Dec 2015 #23
newfie11 Dec 2015 #27
Segami Dec 2015 #6
CorporatistNation Dec 2015 #7
MisterP Dec 2015 #8
bvf Dec 2015 #9
erronis Dec 2015 #44
Name removed Dec 2015 #10
WillyT Dec 2015 #11
DissidentVoice Dec 2015 #12
Cynical Sam Dec 2015 #13
George II Dec 2015 #15
Armstead Dec 2015 #36
seabeyond Dec 2015 #16
Bjorn Against Dec 2015 #17
artislife Dec 2015 #24
rusty quoin Dec 2015 #19
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #26
stillwaiting Dec 2015 #31
AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #18
rusty quoin Dec 2015 #20
marym625 Dec 2015 #21
cantbeserious Dec 2015 #22
Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #25
Scuba Dec 2015 #28
anamnua Dec 2015 #29
Sancho Dec 2015 #30
wildeyed Dec 2015 #33
Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #48
wildeyed Dec 2015 #49
Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #50
wildeyed Dec 2015 #51
Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #52
Armstead Dec 2015 #39
LWolf Dec 2015 #32
mindwalker_i Dec 2015 #34
Enthusiast Dec 2015 #38
mindwalker_i Dec 2015 #41
Enthusiast Dec 2015 #37
Armstead Dec 2015 #40
kacekwl Dec 2015 #42
artislife Dec 2015 #43
in_cog_ni_to Dec 2015 #45
Historic NY Dec 2015 #46
Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #47
UglyGreed Dec 2015 #53

Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:09 PM

1. In constant "resist the Repubs" mode, we have become complacent.

Playing defense all the time, we have forgotten what it is to move forward. There is too much comfort in the current arrangement between R VS. D...

When we say good cop vs. bad cop, this is what we mean. There is a complex dance, an interrelationship between the Dems and the Repubs.. they PLAY off each other while little changes.

I kick and recommend your post.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:19 PM

3. "...we have become complacent ... and play off of each other while little changes ..."

for most people anyway.

Some lives are improved, while most lives are not, and the teams play games and throw a few bones to the spectators.







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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:42 PM

14. +1

 

Failing to act because you are always re-acting lets the other party define your positions.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:51 PM

35. ...and "resist" in this context means "hem and haw for a bit, then give in." [n/t]

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:10 PM

2. Yup, absolutely.

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:22 PM

4. For me, that's one reason.

 

The entire nation needs a radical shakeup. When some animal like Herr Trumpenfuhrer is considered a serious nominee, we're a hair's breath from beyond any salvation at all.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:42 PM

5. I'm too old to wait around and hope for change.

It's time we the people help bring about the change. That's what supporting Bernie is all about, taking charge and letting him lead.

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Response to Paka (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:44 AM

23. +1000!

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Response to Paka (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 03:49 AM

27. I'm old enough to see how far down this country has sunk

I remember a time when only one spouse could earn enough to support a family. Now it seems for some two is not enough.

So many people are stressed out from working long hours.

Then there the accusations that people are lazy and want to live off the government dole.

Our "Christian values" apparently only goes so far.
Reagan saw to that when he closed the homeless shelters kicking people out on the street.

Our chronic war machine stirring the pot world wide does not help and neither does our CIA/NSA buying/selling drugs!

We are so far down the rabbit hole I'm not sure we will find a way out.

Yes I will vote as I've done since 1967, but I do so with little expectations that things will change.
I fully expect the votes to be tampered with.
Seems to me we play this game to often!

I can hope maybe just maybe this time the voice of the American people will be heard, not corporations and oligarchs!

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:58 PM

6. K&R

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:05 PM

7. Dump Debbie would Be Likely First Move...

Plenty more...

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:11 PM

8. it's the old sweatshop model, applied to a party: put in your labor, work for little,

see the guys at the top get everything, and just be grateful that you're not starving under some bridge!

political machines at least get things done to appeal to this or that ward

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:15 PM

9. Great post--every word of it!

 

Republican-lite has got to go.

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Response to bvf (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:23 PM

44. Echo. Hear, hear! And it's not just DWS and the top-dem brass. Make the party new/fresh!

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:25 PM

11. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

 


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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:26 PM

12. Me too...positively and negatively

Me too...positively...because virtually any Democrat, as DLC-diluted as they may be, has always been a much better alternative than virtually any Republican, ever since any moderate, old-style, old-school Republican (pre-Reagan) has been quashed. I blame talk radio and Fox largely, not exclusively for that.

Negatively...the "me-too'ism" of the DLC to be as Republican-lite as possible, starting especially with Bill Clinton's second term, after he rolled over and played dead on health care and jumped on virtually everything the Gingrich "revolution" advocated, soured me from being an advocate for the Democratic Party to being a "hold-my-nose-and-vote" Democratic because I loathe virtually everything the Republicans stand for.

Frankly, President Obama has elicited a similar reaction with me (especially caving on single-payer health care) but I voted for him solidly in both 2008 and 2012 to keep Palin/McCain (yes, I got the order right) or Romney/Ayn Rand out of the White House.

I'm glad my grandfather, who went from running bathtub gin to building bridges for the WPA, who had a huge portrait of FDR in his living room, isn't here to see what the Democratic Party has morphed into.

Especially now, with Donald Trump...I don't want to be alarmist but I'm going to be. Stopping this man from getting anywhere near the Oval Office is crucial to our future as a representative democracy. It's a slippery slope from "keeping Muslims out" (one of my wife's colleagues is married to a man from Yemen and I honestly fear for his safety) to "tightening the borders" (I live within walking distance of Canada) so that "political undesirables" are kept IN, as in exit visas.

Honestly, the man scares the hell out of me and I can't recall saying that about any other candidate.

As a social democrat I shall be voting for Bernie Sanders in the primary but if he is not the candidate in November, I shall be solidly in Hillary Clinton's corner.

A choice between Hillary's diluted-DLC and Trump's right-wing authoritarianism? No contest.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:37 PM

13. This post has been

DELETED BY AUTHOR due to misreading.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 11:58 PM

15. Perhaps he should have joined our Democratic Party decades ago.........

.......he might have been in a position to shape the Party leadership.

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Response to George II (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 05:55 PM

36. Naw....The partry leaders don't like "radicals"

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:04 AM

16. I get it is about the chaos and destruction if Democratic Party. Teabaggers did the same with repug

 

Party. Silly me. At first I thought Sanders would be gracious enough to expand and be respectful using the Democratic party's tools and structure. But it is about tearing it down while he uses it, and asking for the base votes while setting them aside to win repug vote. It has been interesting to watch.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:16 AM

17. No, a change in leadership is not chaos and destruction.

If you want to know what chaos and destruction is think about the Iraq War, a war which was supported by too many in the party leadership. Removing the people who support destructive policies from leadership positions does not cause chaos and destruction, it prevents it.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 01:58 AM

24. The sky is falling, the sky is falling

 

There just seems to be such a fear of losing what little we have.


But nothing comes from being timid. Great risks are what moves things to the higher level. There is just a sense of defeatism in thinking about a h presidency. Don't they know that you have to churn things up to make butter!

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:18 AM

19. Aww...no. We have never been extreme. We are about holding on to what we once had.

 

We were right always. Bernie was right always. The other side was never right. It's not about tearing down, it is about doing what works.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 02:11 AM

26. ...

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:55 AM

31. What did you think of Bill Clinton, Al From, and the DLC when they radically changed what the

Democratic Party stood for?

They openly stated what their intentions were, and they have MANY times since then reiterated their agenda.

It was a RADICAL change in what the Democratic Party stood for.

Did the DLC, its supporters, and the Clintons' tear down the Democratic Party and use it to win?

I guess I might believe so to some extent.

Bernie wanting to radically shift the Democratic Party values back to more traditional Democratic Party values and not continue this "New Democratic" Party values is just what we need. Back to basic Democratic values.

Look at the abysmal approval ratings of Congress even when Democrats had full control (and with Obama in the White House):

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

Now, if the Democratic Party wasn't so thoroughly compromised, they would have been able to do a lot more to make more Americans believe they were fighting for their interests. They failed us as they worked for their corporate masters. And, MOST Americans believe this to be true. Bernie's values are a healing elixir for what ails the current state of the Democratic Party.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:18 AM

18. The Democratic Party is part of the reason why politics has moved rightward in America

The Democratic Party shifted the "left" rightwards, and the Republicans shifted themselves even more rightward till the point now that Reagan would be a moderate in today's politics in America.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:19 AM

20. That's true

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:43 AM

21. K&R!

Great post!! Thank you

#FeelTheBern #Bernie2016

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:44 AM

22. This Citizen Wishes That This OP Could Truly Receive A Billion Recommendations

eom

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 02:01 AM

25. It's one more reason to support him, agreed. n/t

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:46 AM

28. K and effing R

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:04 AM

29. Good but not the best

I think Bernie Sanders is a good guy but he is just not as well equipped as Hillary to subserve the office of POTUS.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:20 AM

30. Hmmm...does anyone think this is new?

I've been a political junkie since the days of burning draft cards, getting the 18 year old vote, and the ERA. There has never been a time that someone didn't want a change in the Democratic leadership. Maybe an outlier Democratic group will allow a Trump or Jeb to win???!!! Bernie has not been a loyal Democrat, and he is being opportunistic now - but his heart and values are not with the Democratic party.

Right now is pretty mild in the total view of things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention

In 1968 the Democratic Party was divided. Senators Eugene McCarthy and Robert F. Kennedy had entered the campaign in March, challenging Johnson for the Democratic nomination. Johnson, facing dissent within his party, had dropped out of the race on March 31.[6] Vice President Hubert Humphrey then entered into the race, but did not compete in any primaries, compiling his delegates in caucus states that were controlled by party leaders. After Kennedy's assassination on June 5, the Democratic Party's divisions grew.[5] At the moment of Kennedy's death the delegate count stood at Humphrey 561.5, Kennedy 393.5, McCarthy 258.[7] Kennedy's murder left his delegates uncommitted.
When it came to choosing a candidate, on one side stood supporters of Senator McCarthy, who ran a decidedly anti-war campaign and who was seen as the peace candidate.[8] On the other side was Vice President Humphrey, who was seen as the candidate who represented the Johnson point of view.[9] In the end, the Democratic Party nominated Humphrey. Even though 80 percent of the primary voters had been for anti-war candidates, the delegates had defeated the peace plank by 1,567¾ to 1,041¼.[10] The perceived cause of this loss was the result of Mayor of Chicago Richard Daley, and President Johnson pulling strings behind the scenes.[10] Humphrey, even though he had not entered a single primary, had won the Democratic nomination, and went on to lose the election to the Republican Richard Nixon.[11]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention_protest_activity

The start of the convention week’s violence is sometimes traced to the shooting of Dean Johnson by Chicago police officers. Dean Johnson, age 17, and another boy were stopped on the sidewalk by the officers for a curfew violation early on the morning of Thursday, August 22. When Johnson drew and fired a pistol at police (the gun misfired), police officers returned fire, hitting Johnson three times.[10] The Yippies and SDS hastily organized a memorial service for Johnson, but as one observer noted, due to poor planning “it turned out that no one had made any plans to actually do anything. We just milled around and began to fill up the intersection. Two squad cars pulled up and the cops got out and told us to keep moving ... but they were pretty gentle about it”.[11]
On Friday, August 23, the planned protests began. Jerry Rubin and other Yippies attempted to formally nominate the Yippie candidate for president, Pigasus the Pig. By the time Rubin arrived with Pigasus, several hundred spectators and reporters had gathered on the Civic Center plaza.[citation needed] Police officers were waiting, and as soon as the pig was released, Rubin, folk singer Phil Ochs, and five other Yippies were arrested.[citation needed]

The rest of the convention week violence followed the pattern set Sunday night. Protestors were joined on 28 August by the Poor People's Campaign, now led by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference's Ralph Abernathy. This group had a permit and was split off from other demonstrators before being allowed to proceed to the amphitheater.[citation needed] The hard line taken by the City was also seen on the convention floor itself.[15] In 1968, Terry Southern described the convention hall as "exactly like approaching a military installation; barbed-wire, checkpoints, the whole bit".[19] Inside the convention, journalists such as Mike Wallace and Dan Rather were roughed up by security; both these events were broadcast live on television.[citation needed]
Subsequently, the Walker Report to the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence assigned blame for the mayhem in the streets to the police force, calling the violence a "police riot". It later became said that on that night, America voted for Richard M. Nixon.[20]

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Response to Sancho (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 10:47 AM

33. True.

I pulled out my People's History of the US (young persons edition, couldn't find the other)

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

So we got Carter, who was a good man (we all agree on that) but an incredibly weak politician who left the door wide open for Ronald Reagan. And so it goes. Sigh....

Jimmy Carter ran as a reformer who was "untainted" by Washington political scandals,[4] which many voters found attractive in the wake of the Watergate scandal,


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1976

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 08:47 PM

48. Reagan ran as a "reformer" who would eliminate the massive bureaucracy,....

 

.....and bring "glamour" back to DC.



He was presented as the new JFK.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #48)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 09:28 PM

49. Trying to get the gumption to read an actual biography of the man.

I was in middle and high school when he was in office. Old enough to loathe him, but not to really understand what he was and who he represented. He would be a moderate by current GOP standards, I guess. We thought he was the worst, as conservative s this country would ever get.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 09:50 PM

50. Dubya reminded me that I spent a lot of the Reagan Era yelling at my TV.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 10:01 PM

51. I yelled a bunch at TV GWB too.

I lived in DC during Reagan. They let us do an actual punk rock show ON the National Mall the day after the 4th of July (I think) called Rock Against Reagan. Can you imagine that today? It was wonderful to be a teen then, in a subversive kind of way. Parents basically let us do anything, so I roamed the city at will. Went to Go-Go shows (a DC-centric style of funk music, not strippers) and dive bars even though I was only 16. No one carded back then. And who could be a better authority figure to rebel against than Nancy "Just Say No" Reagan and her darling Ronny? That was a couple a teenager could really hate

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 10:47 PM

52. Especially after she bought those damn dishes.

 

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Response to Sancho (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:13 PM

39. It's cyclical...The old order gets too stale and entrenched, and there's a clamor for reform

 

Then eventually the reformers become too stale and entrenched and it's time for a new set of reforms.

Right now we're at a stage where the pro-corporate, anti-liberal reformers of the late 80's and 90's have become stale and entrenched. Therefore...

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 09:43 AM

32. You are not alone. nt

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 11:43 AM

34. Big-ass 40 megaton K&R

Having faith in a political party is as dangerous as having faith in a religion: it leave one open to abuse by the officials of that religion or party. It's critical to keep questioning people, to look at the positions they hold or how often those change.

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Response to mindwalker_i (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:10 PM

38. That's an excellent post.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:53 PM

41. Thank you

Yeah, it's really weird to get into Hillary supporters' heads. It shows me that there are people, all over the political spectrum, who "believe in" something whether it's a sky-wizard or a political party. That's so different from the way I at least try to think and make decisions.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:09 PM

37. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:14 PM

40. Yep hit the nail on the head....as did many of the replies

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:08 PM

42. Amen !

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:08 PM

43. kick

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:23 PM

45. K&R!

Thank you! Great post!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:30 PM

46. Bernie Sanders will never lead the Democratic Party, period....

eom.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 08:42 PM

47. "...do not particularly like the Democratic Party establishment..."

 

***GASP!!!***

You were against, "impeachment is off the table"???

TRAITOR!!!

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Dec 11, 2015, 01:10 PM

53. K/R

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