HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » I am not a Hillary suppor...

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:37 PM

I am not a Hillary supporter, but I need to defend her. She did not lie about Trump.

There are certain things that we all know to to be true.

We all know that Donald Trump is on the television a lot.

We all know that when Donald Trump is on the television he says some really nasty things about Muslims.

We know that the nasty things Trump says about Muslims get broadcast all over the world including the Middle East.

These things are all facts that are easily proven. There are other facts that may not be quite as easy to prove, but should be obvious to everyone.

We may not be able to prove that Muslims in the Middle East get pissed off when they turn on the television and hear Donald Trump saying these nasty things about them, but I think any reasonable person would agree that it is certain that some of them do get pissed off.

I think that any reasonable person would also agree that a pissed off Islamic Fundamentalist is far more likely to join ISIS than a Muslim that had nothing to be upset about.

Hillary may not be able to provide physical proof of her claim, but the claim she made is such an obvious statement that I don't even understand how anyone could doubt it.

I am a strong Bernie supporter, but I don't have to be a Hillary fan to see that the media is distracting us with a gotcha game instead of focusing on the real issues.

53 replies, 4551 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply I am not a Hillary supporter, but I need to defend her. She did not lie about Trump. (Original post)
Bjorn Against Dec 2015 OP
JoePhilly Dec 2015 #1
trueblue2007 Dec 2015 #2
99th_Monkey Dec 2015 #3
George II Dec 2015 #10
rhett o rick Dec 2015 #53
katsy Dec 2015 #4
Andy823 Dec 2015 #6
riversedge Dec 2015 #5
Andy823 Dec 2015 #7
kacekwl Dec 2015 #8
oasis Dec 2015 #9
George II Dec 2015 #11
Lazy Daisy Dec 2015 #12
bigtree Dec 2015 #13
polichick Dec 2015 #14
oasis Dec 2015 #15
yardwork Dec 2015 #16
one_voice Dec 2015 #17
Laser102 Dec 2015 #18
SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #19
pnwmom Dec 2015 #20
MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #21
Hiraeth Dec 2015 #22
okasha Dec 2015 #23
gordyfl Dec 2015 #24
Bjorn Against Dec 2015 #26
uponit7771 Dec 2015 #31
drm604 Dec 2015 #25
mountain grammy Dec 2015 #27
stage left Dec 2015 #28
artislife Dec 2015 #29
rosesaylavee Dec 2015 #30
tavernier Dec 2015 #32
angrychair Dec 2015 #33
Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #34
onenote Dec 2015 #38
Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #42
Bjorn Against Dec 2015 #39
Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #41
Bjorn Against Dec 2015 #43
Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #44
SolutionisSolidarity Dec 2015 #40
joshcryer Dec 2015 #35
Persondem Dec 2015 #36
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #37
Enrique Dec 2015 #45
dsc Dec 2015 #48
ecstatic Dec 2015 #46
cali Dec 2015 #47
EndElectoral Dec 2015 #49
Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #50
Maedhros Dec 2015 #51
Jarqui Dec 2015 #52

Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:40 PM

1. Trump's message to moderate Mulsims, and that of ISIS are the same.

Trump and ISIS agree ... Americans should/do hate all Muslims.

And as a result, all Muslims should join ISIS to fight America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:41 PM

2. Does DU adminstration really care if Dems are being trashed?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:45 PM

3. Who's trashing Dems? Can you be a little more specific? n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:20 PM

10. Sadly, I fear not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:03 PM

53. I suggest you ask them directly. But some seem to equate anything other than devotion as

 

trashing. Democrats disagree, argue and hold their politicians accountable. It's the conservatives that walk in lock step, everyone afraid to speak out.

Vote for a true DEmocrat, vote for Sen Sanders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:51 PM

4. You are spot on.

I'm a Bernie supporter also.

None of our candidates are liars.

They are human. Fallible. They misspeak and maybe embellish. But they are not extremists like the gop.

In this case, former SOS Clinton knows what she is talking about. Words matter and tRump is daesh's recruiter in chief. Common sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to katsy (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:55 PM

6. I feel the same way. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:52 PM

5. Thank you so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:56 PM

7. I couldn't agree more

Thanks for the post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 08:59 PM

8. All ISIS has to do is watch one Trump

speech and they know they are winning .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:03 PM

9. My vote for Stand UP OP of the Week.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:22 PM

11. This is the greatest thread I've seen on DU in months. Supporters of all three candidates....

....have come forth and defended the spurious claim that Clinton lied about Trump.

Sincerely, thank you all very much!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:24 PM

12. Agree

 

I too support Bernie, BUT Hillary has nothing to apologize for here. Saying Trump is a big recruitment tool for ISIS isn't a lie, and no way she deserves any flack over her statement.

At best she's guilty of an extremely small stretch, but doubtful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:27 PM

13. it's not just the media

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:38 PM

14. That's how I see it too. k&r

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:40 PM

15. Kick for an informed DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:43 PM

16. Thank you. I have to say that the past days have been a real low for DU.

Thank you for your sane post. It's sad that this even has to be said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:46 PM

17. K&R

Nice to see this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:47 PM

18. K&R! Well said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:50 PM

19. Really.

It's something that's obvious on the face of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:52 PM

20. Thank you for realizing that spreading lies about Hillary

is not a good way to encourage people to take another look at Bernie.

I cannot believe anyone here seriously believes that Hillary lied. They're just trying to make mountains out of molehills. And that doesn't make them look very confident about their candidate's ability to win without fighting dirty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:53 PM

21. This is the DU I remember.

 

Fistbump Bjorn. I bet ya Sanders would say much the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:53 PM

22. I agree. In solidarity, K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:54 PM

23. K&R



Thank you for this common sensical post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 09:57 PM

24. Who Saw the Recruitment Video?

So it's safe to say Hillary did not actually see the video she was talking about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gordyfl (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:04 PM

26. She never claimed that ISIS produced a Trump video

She only said that ISIS showed people videos of Trump, she never said where those videos came from or who they were produced by. If ISIS showed the same Trump videos that we all see on YouTube then Hillary's claim is true, and I have a really hard time believing ISIS has never shown a Donald Trump video.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:37 PM

31. +1, "... he hates you and he's a leading candidate for American president..." (roll vid)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:00 PM

25. Agreed.

She was just stating the blatantly obvious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:05 PM

27. Agree!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:19 PM

28. k&R

I'm a Bernie supporter and it saddens me to know that someone supporting Bernie would defend pond scum like Trump. My apologies to pond scum. Go get him, Hillary!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:23 PM

29. This has been weird, even for us.

 

Trump has trashed the Mexicans, Muslims, and who knows who else...I try not to read his crap.

Hillary doesn't deserve the "liar" label for this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:29 PM

30. Agreed. Thank you for posting this.

I am a Sanders supporter and HRC is not my choice for President. However, that said, she deserves respect. She's a former US Senator, Secy of State -- and as a Democratic candidate for office now, this being a Democratic site, she should be defended against monsters like Trump.

He's a bigot and all that's wrong with the GOP, an extremist. No doubt at all that she is right on about that. Glad someone had the guts to say it out loud. He's endangering a lot of people every time he spouts forth -- people will die because of this ass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:44 PM

32. It makes no difference. The msm has chosen Trump

and if you don't agree, look at the evidence!

Every word he speaks is news. Everytime he turns around he is photographed. His "after debates" meetings are all a press conference "breaking news" free for all.

If he farts, it's news.

They have crowned him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:52 PM

33. Trying to bite my tongue

Seeing certain posts about this have given me pause.
This one has too.

Watching a video clip of HRC about her statement, re-writing, reframing, it in the context of news broadcast of tRump's ignorant shit influencing Muslim opinions of Americans. That statement is even more irritating. That is not the words she used.
To me it is not about what she said, it is about how she has handled it after the fact.

tRump is a piece of crap, I could care less about him.

Dont make excuses for what she said or don't you or her reword her statement when I, as well as millions of others, heard her say it on live TV.

Don't do a teapublican Sith mind trick to rewrite your own public statements to fit your new narrative
("These are not the droids you're looking for"

I don't give a shit about an apology.

I don't give a shit what she said.

It's not about tRump.
It's not about what kind of person he is or the things he says.
Don't use a negative to excuse a negative.

As Democrats we ask more of our candidates, at least we should. We are better than any teapublican, on any day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:05 PM

34. Then you must not know what she said. The exact quote was

 

http://time.com/4156164/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-isis/

^snip^


Clinton also said that the country needed ďto make sure the really discriminatory messages that Trump is sending around the world donít fall on receptive ears. He is becoming ISISís best recruiter. They are going out people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.Ē



There is no evidence to support that claim. What she said today in Iowa was different and is accurate. Arabic Television does show videos of Trump and that does play into the hands of radical terrorists.



What she said Saturday was an untrue statement which should have been corrected immediately. Unfortunately, Hillary can't admit a mistake within a reasonable period of time so this got all blown out of proportion for a couple of days. The opposition now has more video for attack ads against her and her already terrible trustworthy numbers will be worse because of it.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:29 PM

38. This story appeared in the national media on December 8

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/donald-trumps-muslim-bashing-aids-cause-terror-networks-say-experts-n476221

"Donald Trump's call for closing America's door to Muslims is opening a window of opportunity for groups like ISIS, counter-terrorism experts and human rights advocates say.

The Republican presidential candidate's controversial proposal for barring all Muslims from entering the United States is being used by the head-chopping fanatics and other terrorist groups like al Qaeda to attract recruits by painting the land of the free as opposed to Islam, experts told NBC News on Tuesday.

"They love him from the sense that he is supporting their rhetoric," said Rita Katz with the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors the social media activities of Islamic terrorist groups. "They follow everything Donald Trump says," she noted. "When he says, 'No Muslims should be allowed in America,' they tell people, 'We told you America hates Muslims and here is proof.'"

I'd say that stories like this one provided a pretty reasonable basis for Clinton's statement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onenote (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 08:51 AM

42. Clinton's statement was an assumption presented as a fact.

 


She changed things up at a town hall in Iowa and is now making the correct statements.

What she said in the debate is not acceptable for a Presidential candidate and should have been corrected immediately. If she had done that before the Sunday shows got a hold of it then this would have been seen as a simple misstatement. Instead, she refused to admit making a mistake and the whole thing blew up out of proportion.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:31 PM

39. Read that quote you bolded again and tell me which part you think is false

When you read that quote again however I not only want you to think about what it says, I want you to think about what it does not say.

The quote you bolded does not say anything about who produced the videos that are being shown. She only suggests ISIS is showing videos, she never claimed they are creating them. This means that if ISIS showed any video of Donald Trump, even the same videos we can watch on YouTube then Hillary's claim is correct.

Now considering how many hundreds of millions of people around the world have seen Donald Trump videos do you really think ISIS ignored them all?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 08:47 AM

41. "are"

 


There is no evidence that they ARE going around showing videos.....

The potential exists. Maybe you believe they are, that isn't the point. People (like Hillary) believed Saddam had WMD. It turned out to not be true.

A Presidential candidate needs to make truthful statements. Not just blurt out things they think might be happening as if they were facts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 08:52 AM

43. I am sorry but claims of showing videos are not the same as claims of WMDs

Literally hundreds of millions of people have watched videos of Donald Trump. It would defy logic to think these videos have been shown everywhere except by ISIS recruiters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 08:56 AM

44. But the ability to turn assumptions into facts within your own mind is.

 



Hillary has proven once again that she thinks her assumptions are facts.

Just because you agree with the assumption does not mean that it should be presented as a fact.

She was wrong and nothing you can say will change that.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:36 PM

40. People around here prefer to believe comforting fictions.

Sure, ISIS exists because Donald Trump says mean things. That's much more plausible than it being the product of regional forces taking advantage of the power vacuum created by our "liberation" of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria (ish) in a 10 year period. Hillary was a constant hawk in every conflict, of course, and each one the very pinnacle of humanitarian warfare.

I can't wait to see what we liberate next.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:20 PM

35. I'm just waiting for the ISIS video using Trump.

On a scale of political rhetoric it was really mild. For the media to be hammering it is silly because it's only a matter of time before ISIS features Trump prominently in their propaganda videos, followed by a couple of beheadings or torturous deaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:26 PM

36. perfectly stated. K & R nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:28 PM

37. as another strong Bernie supporter who is NOT a big fan of Hillary: I absolutely 100% agree

Bernie would be ashamed of this nonsense

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 08:56 AM

45. her lie undermines the truth in your OP

what you say is true, and important for everyone to make those points.

Her lie makes it harder for anyone to criticize Trump on his rhetoric.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enrique (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:19 AM

48. where is the lie

the fact is she didn't say ISIS is making videos she said ISIS is showing videos. And frankly, the chances that they aren't doing exactly that is slim and none and slim has left the building.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:11 AM

46. So true. I was really disappointed in Lawrence O'Donnell

for feeding into the apology Bullshit. He's usually very keen on these matters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:16 AM

47. absolutely agree

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:43 AM

49. Not a fan of Trump at all, but here is the flaw in your logic with your own words.

"Hillary may not be able to provide physical proof of her claim, but the claim she made is such an obvious statement that I don't even understand how anyone could doubt it."


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 04:16 PM

50. I am caucusing for Bernie. I want it on record that I defend Hillary in this Trump media crap.


Trump is not a harmless carnival barker - his statements are incitement and stochastic terrorism. PERIOD. He is dangerous, bigoted and utterly irresponsible.


Hillary is right to point out the obvious -- it is plain and obvious that his ignorant statements about Muslims will serve as a recruiting tool for extreme factions including ISIL.

But beyond speaking about foreign policy matters, every Dem Pol and liberal and moderate citizen should be calling him out on his rhetoric NON-STOP in a tidal wave of condemnation over every damned thing that comes out of his mouth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 04:25 PM

51. I am ALL FOR criticizing Hillary FOR THE THINGS SHE DESERVES.

 

This isn't one of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2015, 04:29 PM

52. Everyone knows exactly what she was talking about and many know she's right.

I tried to research it a little a couple of days ago. Didn't have time yet to document it. I got on al jazeera middle east english site when this dispute popped up.
http://www.aljazeera.com/topics/regions/middleeast.html

The story about Trump banning Muslims was more prominent than it is now
http://video.aljazeera.com/searchresults?keyword=Donald+Trump
you can see some of what they had at that link

Not quite an ISIS propaganda recruitment video but it can't be helping the US fight against terrorism to have that ignorant pig of a racist spewing his hate speech to Muslims in the Middle East.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread