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Yallow

(1,926 posts)
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:45 PM Dec 2015

Would Bernie Be Leading Hillary In A Fair Fight?

I ask the question. I watch the news more than most people, and rarely see the "pundits" talking about Bernie's platform. I see more coverage now, from the almost complete blackout we had, but very little mention of what he wants, or stands for.

I am not saying I have not heard of his free college education, but hardly anything else about the terms he uses. The billionaire class, and him talking about the fact that we are being screwed.

Remember, Bernie has more supporters overall than Trump, and not once have I heard this on my teevee. No mention of the fact that he has had more individual donations than any candidate in history either. How about the fact that Bernie correctly chose to not give Bush authorization to invade Iraq, and blow the hell out of the place. Maybe he was Nostradamus. Hillary sure wasn't smart enough to see the chaos that would ensue. Zero coverage.

Hey CNN, and MSNBC, let's not talk about it ok? (Forget the Fox Propaganda Channel)

Let's just do horserace 100% of the time, and ignore issues, and differences, and records!!!!

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would Bernie Be Leading Hillary In A Fair Fight? (Original Post) Yallow Dec 2015 OP
I Forgot Something Yallow Dec 2015 #1
Campaigns aren't required to reveal the number of donations yet. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #3
UNTRUE brooklynite Dec 2015 #22
Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #23
FASCISM American Style... The Corporatist State... CorporatistNation Dec 2015 #15
It's difficult to embolden any one line, since every line is appropriate. sorechasm Dec 2015 #18
HRC has been campaigning since 2006 Perogie Dec 2015 #2
Obama didn't have same exposure to media as Hillary had, he started behind her in everything... uponit7771 Dec 2015 #6
Your candidate is losing. MoonRiver Dec 2015 #4
Did Iowa vote already? If not, you should consider self-deleting your post. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #11
What about the current fight isn't fair? tia uponit7771 Dec 2015 #5
The result. Bleacher Creature Dec 2015 #12
If it were the fairest race in history, Sanders would be ahead. pangaia Dec 2015 #14
Have you watched the goddamn news lately Armstead Dec 2015 #16
Sanders isn't a front runner of course they're going to skew their coverage towards Hillary... uponit7771 Dec 2015 #21
I keep hearing about Trump, Trump and Hillary, Trump and Hillary, with a mention of O'malley. -none Dec 2015 #7
No.... FarPoint Dec 2015 #8
What's fair? Candidates declare their candidacy and MineralMan Dec 2015 #9
Really? Even If One Candidate Is Covered In The News And The Other Ignored? Yallow Dec 2015 #27
A reasonable reply indeed, BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #30
I'm not sure he is losing. Hasn't been a vote cast. EndElectoral Dec 2015 #10
I don't know the definition of fair in politics. Kalidurga Dec 2015 #13
As a Clinton supporter,I got booted when I responded to an anti-Clinton post a couple of days ago. c588415 Dec 2015 #17
How one defines "fair fight" can be rather subjective Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2015 #19
Of course. They have stacked the deck, smeared him, sicked her surrogates on him, blacked GoneFishin Dec 2015 #20
Fair Fight? YOu mean if Hillary had to rely on real people for donations rahter than the Oligarchy? Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #24
I think his numbers would be even lower if he was running against a male candidate. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #25
progress enid602 Dec 2015 #26
A better question would be, "Would Bernie be winning if Hillary hadn't run?" Godhumor Dec 2015 #28
No. nt hack89 Dec 2015 #29
 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
1. I Forgot Something
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:48 PM
Dec 2015

Bernie has had over 2.3 million individuals contribute to his campaign. I can't find Hillary's number of donors. I looked the other day. What, is it a secret?

That and the fact they wouldn't but up the graphic on CNN this morning showing their poll results with Bernie slaughtering Trump.

Sickening.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251944220#post2

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
3. Campaigns aren't required to reveal the number of donations yet.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:49 PM
Dec 2015

What is secret however is what corporations are donating to her superPACs, and what political favors they expect in exchange. I.e. Legalized Bribery of Sec. Clinton.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
23. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 05:29 PM
Dec 2015

Colbert PAC and Trevor Potter proved that you could accept unlimited donations by forever anonymous donors. I encourage you to go read (and watch) more on this topic.

If you don't think Clinton's superPACs know about this then I have several bridges in NY to sell you.

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
15. FASCISM American Style... The Corporatist State...
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 03:32 PM
Dec 2015
http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Pay particular attention to # 6 and 14!

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3


Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

From Liberty Forum

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_constitution&Number=642
109&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1&t=-1


sorechasm

(631 posts)
18. It's difficult to embolden any one line, since every line is appropriate.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 04:32 PM
Dec 2015

Good list. Thanks CorpoatistNation!

Perogie

(687 posts)
2. HRC has been campaigning since 2006
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:49 PM
Dec 2015

Bernie only about six months ago. If they both started at the same time and had the same exposure by media, I would say Bernie would be ahead. He's come a long way in six months.

uponit7771

(90,382 posts)
6. Obama didn't have same exposure to media as Hillary had, he started behind her in everything...
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:58 PM
Dec 2015

... and came out ahead with smart campaigning.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
16. Have you watched the goddamn news lately
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 04:10 PM
Dec 2015

It is all about whether Clinton will face Trump or someone else in the GOP.

Only primary is on the Republican side.

They take polls, for example, of how Clinton will do against trump or someone elde. No mention of how Sanders might do.

uponit7771

(90,382 posts)
21. Sanders isn't a front runner of course they're going to skew their coverage towards Hillary...
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 05:09 PM
Dec 2015

... like they're doing with other non front runners.

Other than that can you pick out anything else that's not fair?

tia

-none

(1,884 posts)
7. I keep hearing about Trump, Trump and Hillary, Trump and Hillary, with a mention of O'malley.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 02:59 PM
Dec 2015

Hillary and O'malley get mentioned more than Bernie.
Although I did hear mention of Bernie because of the DNC/Debbie Wasserman Schultz/Hillary server scandal. Although they did not call it that.
It is almost like he doesn't really exist for the news media.

FarPoint

(12,509 posts)
8. No....
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 03:06 PM
Dec 2015

I love his wisdom but he does not have the support network as Hillary has for she took YEARS building this momentum.

MineralMan

(146,371 posts)
9. What's fair? Candidates declare their candidacy and
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 03:08 PM
Dec 2015

begin trying to amass enough supporters to win the primaries. The ones who succeed the best prevail.

The media? Well, it is what it is. It has its own biases, of course, but it's a source of information many people turn to. Then there's the Internet. It's also a source of information, both accurate and biased.

The only thing that matters is a candidate's ability to attract and convince supporters. That's each candidate's responsibility. If they are seeking the presidency, it's a long, difficult haul to get nominated by one of the two parties. It involves relationship building over a very long period of time. Those relationships make all the difference, really.

As we've seen, Hillary Clinton is getting the vast majority of endorsements from other elected officials. Why? Relationships. She has built them over decades. Bernie Sanders has been in an adversarial relationship with many of those people. It's not a great way to get them on your side in a run for the Presidency.

So, he's running a populist campaign and testing whether that will gain him enough supporters to win the nomination. His supporters are trying hard to convince others to join them. That's how populist campaigns succeed. Will there be enough? It's not looking promising, at least from poll results across the country.

So, someone will win the Democratic nomination. It will be either Clinton or Sanders, of course. Is the campaign fair? Well, sure. Each candidate is doing his or her best to attract and hold supporters. The one who does that the best, using whatever strategy he or she chooses, will win. There will be elections and caucuses, and then we will know.

Yeah, it's fair. Each candidate has positives and negatives. They're both out on the stump, doing what they think will work. That's as fair as it gets.

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
27. Really? Even If One Candidate Is Covered In The News And The Other Ignored?
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 06:50 PM
Dec 2015

As fair as the news wants to make it.

Judging by sheer number of donors, I would say Sanders has far more supporters.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
13. I don't know the definition of fair in politics.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 03:28 PM
Dec 2015

But, would Bernie be losing if he had been campaigning for the last 6 years? No f'n way. Would we be a little nervous about Hillary's second place position going to first? Possibly, I can see Bernie surging and falling over several months and every little Hillary surge being a nail biter.

c588415

(285 posts)
17. As a Clinton supporter,I got booted when I responded to an anti-Clinton post a couple of days ago.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 04:23 PM
Dec 2015

90% of the post on this website appear negative towards Clinton, but positive for Sanders. He, in my opinion, would make a great president ;nevertheless, Clinton has my vote. And what I don't understand is if Sanders supporters believe that he is winning, and walks on water, then why is Clinton still leading him by double digits in most national polls? Hmmmm

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,473 posts)
19. How one defines "fair fight" can be rather subjective
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 04:39 PM
Dec 2015

If Bernie doesn't win, does that mean that wouldn't have lost anyway no matter what? And how would you prove the specific reason(s) for his loss?

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
20. Of course. They have stacked the deck, smeared him, sicked her surrogates on him, blacked
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 05:05 PM
Dec 2015

out coverage of him on all of the major networks, and choked off his message with limited debate. They are the goddamned Wyle E. Coyote of campaign tactics. But they still can't stop him.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
24. Fair Fight? YOu mean if Hillary had to rely on real people for donations rahter than the Oligarchy?
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 05:58 PM
Dec 2015

Hmmmm.
Is this a trick question?

Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
28. A better question would be, "Would Bernie be winning if Hillary hadn't run?"
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 06:55 PM
Dec 2015

Hillary would have mopped the deck with any Democrat running this year. It she was never in the race, I don't think O'Malley would have enough presence to beat Bernie. But, without Clinton maybe some other people would have stepped up. Who knows.

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