2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders says he’s courting Trump supporters
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said Sunday he believes he can win over supporters of Republican front-runner Donald Trump, explaining that Trump has been successful at channeling working-class anger.
In a pre-taped interview for CBS’s “Face the Nation,” Sanders said many of Trump’s supporters are “working-class people” who have “legitimate” angers and fears because of decreasing wages and the rising cost of college tuition, among other reasons.
“What Trump has done with some success is taken that anger, taken those fears, which are legitimate, and converted them into anger against Mexicans, anger against Muslims,” Sanders said.
He said he would instead work to channel that same anger into support for proposals such as raising the minimum wage — as opposed to “dividing us up and having us hate Mexicans or Muslims.”
“We need policies that bring us together, that take on the greed of Wall Street, the greed of corporate America,” Sanders said.
Austin Wright is a defense reporter for Politico.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-217147#ixzz3vXLxDYfe
Sounds like desperation, going after people who don't give a rats ass about, women, minorities, immigrants. 
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MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)And people actually hid posts of mine where I questioned this man's character.
Turns out, I failed to accurately estimate how low he could actually sink.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But very revealing and oddly reassuring.
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts).
The goal is to have a Democrat retain the White House in 2016, which is my only goal.
If that can be done by tapping into the negativism of Trump's bigot brigade, and redirecting their ire, so be it.
Those Trumpeters will wake up to a state that meets many more of their needs while hopefully molding them away from their past bigotries. Cutting people off is very poor political policy, and helps to retain divisiveness.
.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Bernie is redirecting Trump supporters' mis-placed ire, away from racial minorities, and towards
Wall Street & the MIC, where it rightfully belongs.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Lockheed Martin, builder of the failed and flawed F-35, gets 82% of its revenue from the U.S. Gov't - from American taxpayers, and the failed project has already cost U.S. taxpayers over $1 trillion dollars. It's also the epitome of wasteful Pentagon spending. But Bernie's aaaaaall for keeping the big $$ going to that failed project, just as long as they create a few jobs for his peeps back in Burlington who will then cast their vote for him.
Politics as usual.
So give me a break when you excoriate Hillary Clinton for being a big corporatist while completely ignoring your preferred candidate's chummy-chummy relationship with a huge taxpayer draining, MiC-luvin, Pentagon wasteful spending corporation. Your preferred candidate's house has wafer-thin glass walls.
And although Sanders supporters would LOVE to paint their candidate as some Saint, he ain't. He's a politician (and a not very good one at that). There's NO WAY he can redirect the racists/misogynists/bigots' attention from their favorite pastimes toward Wall Street and MiC. Courting them is a waste of time. They embrace their racism, misogyny, and bigotry with Merican pride and enthusiasm.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)and defense companies.
Most of the funding is channeled through Political Action Committees, which have no limits to how much they donate. About 18 percent comes from individual contributions, totaling almost US$10 million between all of the companies.
The biggest donors — Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Boeing — devote about a third of their funds to Democrat candidates.
First off, any site calling Democratic candidates "Democrat candidates" is suspect. They're usually rightwing and/or libertarian, and it's an advantage to them that they damage Democratic candidates in order to have their preferred establishment Repub win the White House and Congress. But at least they've collected their data from reputable sites like OpenSecrets and the FEC.
Second, it's apparent that you don't have a problem with donations from arms and defense companies to our candidates, but you appear to have a problem with to whom they donate the most. Well, these companies will invest in a winner. Case in point:
Whether we like it or not, the MiC is ingrained in our government and NO candidate is going to get away from donations from that segment either directly or via PACs. Not a single one. Yes, not even the best president of my lifetime, President Barack Hussein Obama.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)In for a penny, in for a pound. Same difference here. Whether you're number one on the list of donations from Arms and Defense corporations and organizations, or you're number 20, you're still a recipient of MiC and corporate dollars.
He's no different than any other presidential candidate. In fact, to try and make the case that he's against the MiC and Big Corp after his support of Lockheed Martin's F-35 trillion dollar (taxpayer dollars) Pentagon boondoggle is ridiculous at best, delusional at worst.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I posted this link, which has no list of 20 that I can see. Where is this list you refer to again? link plz
http://www.mintpressnews.com/clinton-tops-list-of-arms-company-donations-this-content-was-originally-published-by-telesur-at-the-following-address-httpwww-telesurtv-netenglishnewsclinton-tops-list-of-arms-company-donat/212084/
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)yet you claim "Bernie's also on that list", yet you offer no new information, no new link,
nothing whatsoever to support your dubious claim.
I'm still waiting for "the list" you claim is at the link I posted, but it's nowhere to be seen
at the link I posted.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)in your post for which I provided a link to. Then reread the thread. YOU, not me, but YOU stated there was a list. Now you want to turn it around and make it appear as if I claimed such a thing??
No wonder you're a Sanders supporter.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I hadn't noticed this reference to Sanders in the article:
The numbers, collected by the Federal Election Commission and compiled by Open Secrets, also reveal that Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders make the list of top 20 senators and top six presidential candidates to receive money from arms and defense companies.
Another contributing factor was perhaps a bit too much "holiday cheer" muddling my thought process along the way.
So you got me.
mea culpa BlueCaliDem ... and happy holidays. BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)
Happy Holidays, 99th!
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Has been the argument for Bernie for the last 6 months and it's still not compelling.
If he wasn't on the list I'd give him a point...not being at the top of the list = not throwing stones at Hillary or any other candidate
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)THIS:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=954185
and THIS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=954553
I plead guilty to apparently 'taking the bait", mistakenly assuming this "list" was somewhere embedded in the
link in my post, yet it's nowhere to be seen there/here:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/clinton-tops-list-of-arms-company-donations-this-content-was-originally-published-by-telesur-at-the-following-address-httpwww-telesurtv-netenglishnewsclinton-tops-list-of-arms-company-donat/212084/
I have not yet received any response from BlueCaliDem as to where this apparently fictitious 'list' that Sanders
is allegedly "also on", and suspect it doesn't even exist at all.
But ok, my bad for taking the bait. I'll attempt to not ever repeat that mistake again. Live & learn.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)to your post, but apparently you still don't get it. *sigh*
Reread the thread, then maybe it'll be clear for you.
Cha
(297,378 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)If you do a little research into his past, you'll have a problem not coming to the conclusion that he has lots of things that are more Republican than Democratic.
riversedge
(70,258 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)this has ALWAYS been Bernie's target audience ... and he has never made any bones about it, from the start of his campaign.
TheFarseer
(9,323 posts)Black people on welfare is not why they're struggling with their bills. If no one ever tells them the real problem, how will they ever find out? They'll just keep displacing their anger on minorities. This how to stop racism. Your plan to just demonize and not engage only divides us and perpetuates hate.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)telling racists/heterosexist/misogynists the "real problem" will not convert racists/heterosexist/misogynists ... they will just be racists/heterosexist/misogynists that vote for their economic interests.
TheFarseer
(9,323 posts)No one hates for the sake of hate. They've been convinced by Rush or whoever that certain minorities are ruining America. You don't think there should be a voice telling them anything different? I have no idea why I waste my time talking to you.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I'm sorry that pisses you off.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)The level of disconnect in camp Clinton is astounding.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)eom
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Dance with those that brung ya.
We have a non Democrat, running as a Democrat, as he continually disses Democrats, saying he wants the Democratic vote, while actively, and verbally asking for the Teabagger, Libertarian, and Republican vote.
The one litmus test he has for a Supreme Court Justice is Citizens United. Not a mention of a litmus test for women's rights in a time of such attack that women are being jailed and killed because of the attack on us.
Damn scary.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And she campaigned against marriage equality, giving speeches about the sanctity of "traditional" marriage.
One candidate already proved they can't be trusted to fight for our rights and it's not Bernie Sanders.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)them the way forward. I knew from the title that Hillarians would come on board and turn this around to a slur and a lie. WTF? Who doesn't want these people to change? Honestly, the low that is sinking are the HRC supporters who would say what they're saying. Bernie tries to save people, Hillary writes them off unless they can help her personally succeed. That is the reason she won't get my vote and why I support Bernie. Honest to god. WTF?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But if you read the thread it backfired on them hilariously.
I think the op abandoned it with good reason.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)And if Hillary had made any effort to court Libertarians and Reps, the howling here at DU about her true colors, her RW policies coming home to roost and more importantly, her decidedly RW policies that would be implemented to make rw'ers feel right at home...all of that howling would be deafening.
Yet, Bernie is again made out to be a solid Dem with Dem values. What a bunch of hog wash.
okasha
(11,573 posts)has turned into blind Messianism. "Bernie wants to save them."
That scares hell out of me and makes me very glad Hillary has a commanding lead.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)... the nerve of this guy trying to unite Americans!
So I guess Hillary only wants to be President of her own supporters? 
Thanks for clarifying and acknowledging the Sanders' supporters' assertion that those who help her expect exclusive rights to her attention.
Club Clinton... an elitist group of people proudly serving to divide the nation... pathetic!
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I was actually left speechless after reading the first couple of posts. It was such a WTF moment in my head. That someone would say putting aside wedge issues and coming together- was scary.
In fact, I think I'm still trying to process that in my mind.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)... but I just call it as I see it.
Clinton's 'supporters' seem to suggest that Democrats no longer stand by the inclusive 'big tent' philosophy the party has long supported.
That is exactly why I appreciate Bernie. I live in a neighborhood with good people who all have their own points of view. That is the America I love and the one he is fighting for.
The hrc 'volunteers' who repeatedly post here so condescendingly and who espouse elitist ideas and strategies are the ones who have really opened my eyes to the level of corruption in her campaign and her ideals as well as those of the dnc...
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)He's been stuck at high 20's for months. He has all the supporters he's going to get unless he takes some desperate measures.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)You know the message that we need to get big money out of government. The message that HRC supporters hate the most.
He will win the general because the 99% are awakening to the fact that they have a chance of overthrowing the Oligarchy. Getting the corporate sponsored corruption out of government. HRC represents the Establishment that has been killing the 99% for 40 years while the 1% have grown richer and richer. HRC is part of that 1%.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Assure them that Hillary will be wonderful for their portfolio..
cali
(114,904 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)unlike queen hillary, Bernie's positions on the issues have remained constant. hill changes her position depending on the audience.
you desperation grows as we get closer to Bernie shutting hillary down and finally putting a stake through the heart of her illusions grandure and power.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Appealing to disenfranchised voters is hardly a new concept, is this your first election season?
See the goal is to win by getting more votes than your opponent.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)a political advisor who urged courting fewer supporters as opposed to more, I'm thinking that was a very poor hire.
It would be interesting to have been a fly on the wall for Barry Goldwater's political strategy meetings. And then compare what they thought and said to the demographic landslide they earned when LBJ kicked their butts.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So who do Hillary supporters criticize?
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)appropriate and also accurate. A good combination in reading the current prez cycle.
Trump started with a million bucks seed money and seems to be real, real financially comfortable. He's never had to negotiate, research, compromise, reconsider, develop initiative, and respect others' opinions on anything.
Sanders has been in public service all his life. He understands consensus and has the experience to build consensus. Most problems are solved like this in the adult world.
Which brings us back to more votes vs. fewer. Sanders is playing this very smart.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Your wisdom and perspective is always welcome, you remind me of my dad.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)into you on the web, beam me up scottie.
Continue to kick ass.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I think Bernie would do better here with our +60% independent voters than partisan Hillary would.
Good to see you, old friend.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)Always fun to see you on the boards.
Not to mention I think you're right-on with Bernie's chances in Alaska.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 27, 2015, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)
And I am amazed at how clever Sanders is.
Setting aside the faux outrage from some of the H supporters, this strategy is nothing new. Nabbing supporters from other candidates is always the goal. Very few can do it though.
This is the year of the disaffected voter. It makes sense that Bernie would go after those who are fed up with the status quo--which has clearly failed the American people.
Sanders isn't targeting the racist, ugly Trump extremists. He's attempting to appeal to those who want someone outside of our failed system.
Also, from a PR/strategy perspective, it's pure gold. Hillary's strategy during the debate was to ignore her opponents and repeatedly discuss Trump. In effect, she tried to position Sanders and O'Malley as insignificant; while battling Trump as if she was the Dem nominee.
Hillary continued the battling with Trump post debate, with plenty of very-public back and forth between Trump/Hillary.
By announcing that he's courting Trump supporters, Bernie looks more presidential than Hillary. While Hillary is trading childish barbs with Trump, like a couple of kids on the playground--Sanders proclaims that he can appeal to some of Trump's supporters who are sick of politics as usual.
Sanders looks like a strategist. He looks presidential. Sander's actions demonstrate that the real way to outplay Trump is to openly court and steal his supporters; not engage in childish, ridiculous, pointless back-and-forth like Hillary has done.
Seriously. Sanders is a mastermind campaigner.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)He looks like the adult in the room.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)If Sanders get 1% of Trump's voters it will likely be a miracle.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Reaching across the aisle was a good idea when Obama did it and it's a good idea now.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)They are the only Republicans who vote in primaries- they are why Republicans own Congress right now.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I don't really think that those who will be voting for Trump really care about the economy, health care, Wall street regulation, civil rights, or any to the things Bernie has been talking about. The vast majority are tea baggers and racists who hate the government, and anyone who is not white. Not sure where he got the idea they would "change" from hating people because of their religion or color, and getting them to become caring, loving citizens. 
NYCButterfinger
(755 posts)Don't say that. Some of them have nothing to do with race.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)As LBJ said "If you can convince the lowest white man he is better than the best colored man he won't notice you picking his pockets"
xynthee
(477 posts)Young people, for example. People who are working three jobs and who don't have a spare moment to do any research or critical thinking, for another. We should surgically target these people and steer clear of the rest because they're irredeemable.
I love LBJ's quote, especially the next part: "Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Thry just don't understand how the economy works in relation to them.
Someone who can successfully impart that information to them stands a good chance of getting their support
quickesst
(6,280 posts)... Trumps supporters are just poor misunderstood socialist Democrats? Got it.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)... I will
postatomic
(1,771 posts)
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Get that. 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Weird place to look for support, imo. None of them will vote in a Democratic primary anyway.
starroute
(12,977 posts)On the average, they're younger, poorer, and less educated. The classic Tea Partier was a small businessperson who was angry at the government over taxes and regulations. Trump supporters are mostly just in pain.
R B Garr
(16,956 posts)who are tired of political correctness and love how he vulgarizes people at the level of visceral hatred they understand. Wall Street, corpo gibberish is only a vehicle for them to conveniently hide behind so they can act out without repercussions.
I have to laugh at those who are embracing Trump now that some crumbs from his campaign may benefit Bernie. People here got their posts hidden for suggesting Bernie's message was limited and might attract these type of people. What they warned about is now true.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)which Hillary Clinton does not.
Clearly, Trump supporters are not going to be voting for Bernie in the Democratic Primaries, since they aren't Democrats. At least, I fucking HOPE they aren't Dems.
Bernie has much better crossover support for the GE than Clinton does, though, and I'm sure part of his winning strategy in the GE would be using and growing that support.
This is not a new concept.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)hasn't appealed to Trumps make America great again campaign....you may think so but I see it in the rages of some of these types. What they think of Sanders is worst that the bowdownbernie stuff. Granted may go to Trump rallies to see the show much like Bernies....their both spouting what is perceived to be a populist message.
If that the only answer you got then GFL........Trump hasn't got full onto Bernie yet but give it time.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)when it comes to working with people of all political stripes to get things done.
I'm sure Trump will "get full onto Bernie" soon, especially after this:
and this
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)he has sponsored, guess his record has missed on his "accomplishments".
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Most of his legislative accomplishments deal with amendments, and they show a strong record of being able to work with the opposition to get them passed, improving those bills.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)there's also this page, which you can filter by various things, including amendments
https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033
SunSeeker
(51,578 posts)Yup, he definitely "crossed the aisle" and voted with the Republicans on that one.
okasha
(11,573 posts)really would appeal to the Trump faction. And "educate" them about racism.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe some reality would be nice for a change:
Bernie Gets It Done: Sanders' Record of Pushing Through Major Reforms Will Surprise You
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)GO, Bernie. Your foes are losing their shit.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)opinion but not your own facts. Trying to get the other side to reason is as American as apple pie. bow down bernie stuff. 8th grade classism.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)will somehow come on her team. I don't blame Bernie. He needs all the help he can get. Only a month left and he is grabbing whatever will stick.
sonofspy777
(360 posts)34% of the voting electorate will not get her elected
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)using those metrics- He'd better get a lot of Trumpsters
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Old Codger
(4,205 posts)thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)Many states have open primaries, or variations thereof.
Although they don't have an open primary, come caucus day in Iowa, a Republican can switch his or her registration to vote in the Dem caucus instead. (Someone can switch back and forth as much as they want, but on that day, they can only vote in one or the other.)
New Hampshire does not allow registered Republicans to vote in the Dem primary, however someone who has not declared for either party may choose to register for a party on the day of the primary in order to vote in that party's primary.
So yes, appeal outside the existing body of registered Dems can be helpful in primary/caucus voting.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:44 PM - Edit history (1)
the Repukes.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)last summer:
Sanders shared that sentiment again to a crowd of 5,200 at his second Texas stop later that day. The Texas Tribune reports:
Several hours later at a similar event in Houston, he sharpened his advice for Democrats, saying the "simple truth is that you cannot be a national political party which claims to represent working families and low-income people and turn your back on some of the poorest states in America."
"If we are serious about change in America, we can't just do it in blue states," he declared earlier in Dallas, emphasizing the need for a "50-state strategy" that leaves no voter in the dark.
Yet Sanders' Texas talk came with a hint of optimism as he raised the prospect of the end of Republican dominance in the state. It was a reliable applause line in Dallas and Houston, cities in the heart of counties critical to Democrats' hopes for a bluer Texas.
“I am here to tell you that today this is a conservative Republican state, but that doesn’t mean it will be conservative Republican tomorrow," Sanders said after taking the stage in Houston, remarking he did not want to become dizzied by the stadium-style crowd. "And with the energy I see in this room, it may be sooner than tomorrow."
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/07/20/red-states-feel-bern-populist-message-resonates
randome
(34,845 posts)We actually do need more than just die-hard Democrats under the tent.
But I think he's mis-read the anger of Trump's supporters.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)The days when a certain segment of working-class and middle-class Americans (namely straight, white men) could support an entire family on one wage, and when women, black Americans, immigrants, LGBT individuals, and other "minority" groups were completely subjugated by the economic system and the dominant culture.
Pardon me if I have little sympathy for that kind of nostalgic bitterness.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)If you are against Bernie doing this what are you feelings of SIX years of Obama thinking he can win over the republican congress. Most of us considered that asinine and in the end it was. At some point he gave up and is now with only a few months left doing what he should have done the moment they first told him to buzz off. If Bernie is wrong, I am assuming you condemn Obama too? Same story, different person.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)You know, like HRC wants to do with her support of the TPP and all other job killing trade agreements.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)supporters, but the ones I'm seeing in news clips may find that Trump himself is too liberal.
There have been several pieces all over the news sites on the web about Trump supporters. The most charitable assessment of their motivations is well, let's say it's not very encouraging.
Or we could say they don't seem to value nuance, which sounds polite, although phrased differently it could translate to "dumber than a bag of rocks."
Any campaign can ask for the support of anybody who's registered to vote.
But I don't think the Trump contingent is a real flexible bunch. One supporter of a right wing GOP hopeful said he was "tired of fucking intellectuals."
I'm guessing he was using 'fucking' as a slang modifier and not a verb although as I said before, I don't speak for Trump supporters. Maybe the guy really is fucking intellectuals, in which case, more power to him. Maybe he'll learn something.
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/26/ive_had_my_fill_of_fking_intellectuals_why_the_non_intellectual_candidate_fills_this_trump_supporter_with_hope/
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)because some swing voters swing back to our side in that matchup.
This is a good thing. Unless you want Trump to be President.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)Did something change? Did Congress do something sneaky again?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)many Republicans vote against their interests in the wake of Bully Speak. Ate some so blinded by superiority that they can't see what this is??
My understanding of politics is that it's not "desperate" to go after ANY person's vote. Good Lord. Speaking of.desperation. ..
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts) saltpoint
(50,986 posts)Politicians who win are in better positions throughout all levels of government to impact the future than politicians who lose.
Goldwater lost and lost big, and he is felt to be revered in some conservative circles, but the shift to a liberal agenda, begun with Kennedy, went full boar under LBJ. Goldwater was nowhere near the control panel during that time.
Nixon lost to Kennedy, then emerged from the grave to win in 1968. It's too bad that he did. And he almost lost again. It was a narrow finish.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Sanders is pursuing the 2015-2016 version of the 50 state strategy that Howard Dean proposed and used. The Democrats must win back working class people from demagogues like Trump. Given that Trump is speaking to the fears of many workers, rather than dismiss these fears out of hand, smart Democrats will also speak to these fears.
Much the same thing happened in the Weimar Republic, where the liberals ignored the working class and, by ignoring them, caused them to gravitate to the National Socialist Party headed by Adolf Hitler.
Since the William Clinton Presidency, the Democrats have not listened to workers. They have abandoned workers and worked for the interests of the capitalists with such measures as NAFTA, welfare reform, prison reform, and other measures that have further enriched the 1% at the expense of the bottom 90%.
Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)outside the Democratic Party!
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)A Hillary supporter disparaging a candidate seeking votes among the white working class. Hillary married a white working class guy and sought the same type of voters in 2008.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)Finally, someone running for President who is advancing solutions to problems caused by the economic distress that has been afflicting this country since Reagan.
Bernie Sanders understands that people channel their frustration and anxiety in different ways -- not always in a productive manner. I too believe that there is a percentage of Trump supporters who, given a chance, will vote for a positive economic agenda like the one Sanders is proposing.
Sanders get it -- the fact that for working and middle class Americans their wages haven't kept up with the cost of living; that health insurance premiums keep going up; that they can't afford to send their kids to trade school or college; that the rich are getting richer and the rest of us are falling further and further behind; etc.
Hillary Clinton with her millionaire pals, champagne flutes and hundred thousand dollar speaking fees is the Democrat's nightmare candidate if they want to bring working folks into a 2016 election victory.
Sander is winner in November 2016 ... a big winner who will bring a Democratic House and Senate with him.
Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts) NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)but to me it sounds like a smart move. Here in NC it goes without saying that there are a segment of the voting public, especially among the Baptist evangelical types, that are angry like everyone else. The fact that they have been swindled into voting GOP for years by their church leaders, coupled with the general "consensus" that Southerners just vote Republican has caused them to focus on Trump who is the GOP's only real "change agent". If Bernie can tap into that and show them that there IS a better way, then I say more power to him.
I realize your only hope was to use this to discredit your nemesis Bernie, but when you are able to look at the big picture like most of us then you would see it as being to his credit.
I have little doubt in my mind, barring any election day shenanigans by the establishment, Bernie already has this thing wrapped up.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Quite revealing.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Remarks at the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California
"And first, let me first say how relieved Bill and I were to hear that Saddleback was spared from the recent wildfires - and how impressed and moved we were to hear about the love and support that you gave those who were not so fortunate.
It's another example of the way in which this church is not measured by numbers. Yes, the numbers are big, they're certainly impressive. But it's measured by your impact. It's measured by the meaning that you give to lives here within this complex and so far beyond its boundaries. And the commitment that you demonstrate both to our faith in God and to doing His work here on earth is exemplary and that is one of the many reasons that I wanted to be here today.
You know, Rick has helped so many people with his lessons for a 40-day spiritual journey. But he knows those 40 days are just the beginning...."
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77080
December 17, 2007
ABC News' Eloise Harper Reports: Sen. Hillary Clinton showed up to Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Church in California on Wednesday for a conference on AIDS. Warren offered praise to Clinton before the crowd of more than 500 people for showing up. "Most of you know that we invited all of the leading candidates, presidential candidates, to come to Saddleback Church to share about their view on AIDS." Warren said to the crowd. "Four of the candidates said they would send a video, but one of the candidates said ‘I’ll come.’" Warren went on "she was the one that showed up" clearly a boost to Clinton over her rival candidates.
Warren, the author of the best selling book The Purpose Driven Life, which has sold 30 million copies, created the Saddleback Community. He has created a global alliance of more than 400,000 pastors representing 163 countries and hundreds of denominations and has been influential in the evangelical community.
Warren, asked Clinton "Why'd you show?" Clinton responded "well first you asked me, and second in a burst of enthusiasm I said I would and I have been looking forward to this."
Five other presidential candidates spoke by video - Huckabee, Edwards, McCain, Obama Romney. The video speeches given by other candidates did not elicit nearly the applause or attention that Clinton received. The democratic frontrunner spoke of her travels abroad – speaking powerfully about one visit to Bangkok and meeting to a 12 year old girl who had contracted AIDS from a brothel. Clinton also spoke about the unjust way that men in the 1980’s were treated when they were too ashamed to tell their loved ones that they were sick with the disease. "We are taught to heal the sick to love them as our own but 25 years ago too many of them died alone."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/clinton-gets-pr.html
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)He's stuck at high 20's and I guess he feels he needs to find other constituents. Good luck to him.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)people to rallies and she can't, I think everyone is going to be so surprised when thousands show up for Bernie. If they could canvas cells he would be crushing her. If our candidates don't speak to everyone including ass hats then they're failing this country. Everyone needs to hear all the messages so they can make a good choice. Your comments are an indication to me that Hillary is losing in the real world. But then, we will find out shortly who is really correct here. Have a great new year. I have animus for no one.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)No matter what side were on, questions will be answered. This primary was supposed to be a snooze fest for our side. It is far from that. Either candidate is fine with me. I just want Hillary a little more.
arcane1
(38,613 posts) beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)supporters don't like him.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"We, as Democrats right now, should tap into the discontent of Republicans. I want some Obama Republicans!"
He also said:
"We are bringing together Democrats and independents, and yes, some Republicans. I know there's—I meet them when I'm shaking hands afterwards. There's one right there. An Obamacan, that's what we call them."
Revealing! A man running for President seeking votes. What an unusual thing.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)but apparently IOKIYABS.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)my response to the OP? I'm pointing out the vast double standard being employed by the OP, the other poster and many others on DU. Of course they don't respond. They send you to bark 'Johnny did it first' as if that argument will win the day. It's cute but it does not cover the utter lack of response to what I actually wrote.
I'll thank you to deal with me as me, not as some group defined by you. This routine your cohort has of treating individuals as if they were not individuals is not acceptable to me. I am me. I answer for what I say. The other poster and the OP should do the same.
Cha
(297,378 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And hate the DNC. It's a starting point.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Maybe if more people became aware that rich corporate scumfucks were ripping them off, then demagoguing them with racist crap, we could get better government for a change.
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)whether they vote for him or not. The President represents all Americans. I respect that he includes, or tries to include, his so called "enemies." The tribalism is toxic, just stop. This is life, not football.
Most republicans vote against their own interests to the detriment of the nation, undermining democracy, meanwhile Bernie makes sense of it. Much like how Obama tried in '07/'08 ("clinging to bibles and guns" was a bad choice of words) It would behoove republicans to listen to Bernie too. Why get in the way?
And it's not desperation at all, it's the right thing to do. It's leadership in the truest form.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)"Sanders Republicans" I like the sound of that.
Americans like to think that class doesn't matter, but it does, and Clinton does not represent the working class.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)in fact they hate it. They equate equality with getting something for nothing.
Their anger is not the same thing as the anger we hear from the liberal side.
ETA: can you imagine if Hillary said the same thing?
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Cha
(297,378 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/07/why-liberty-university-is-requiring-its-students-to-attend-a-bernie-sanders-speech/
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)div class="excerpt"]Clinton Gets Praise From Rick Warren for Showing up to Church
December 17, 2007
ABC News' Eloise Harper Reports: Sen. Hillary Clinton showed up to Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Church in California on Wednesday for a conference on AIDS. Warren offered praise to Clinton before the crowd of more than 500 people for showing up. "Most of you know that we invited all of the leading candidates, presidential candidates, to come to Saddleback Church to share about their view on AIDS." Warren said to the crowd. "Four of the candidates said they would send a video, but one of the candidates said ‘I’ll come.’" Warren went on "she was the one that showed up" clearly a boost to Clinton over her rival candidates.
Warren, the author of the best selling book The Purpose Driven Life, which has sold 30 million copies, created the Saddleback Community. He has created a global alliance of more than 400,000 pastors representing 163 countries and hundreds of denominations and has been influential in the evangelical community.
Warren, asked Clinton "Why'd you show?" Clinton responded "well first you asked me, and second in a burst of enthusiasm I said I would and I have been looking forward to this."
Five other presidential candidates spoke by video - Huckabee, Edwards, McCain, Obama Romney. The video speeches given by other candidates did not elicit nearly the applause or attention that Clinton received. The democratic frontrunner spoke of her travels abroad – speaking powerfully about one visit to Bangkok and meeting to a 12 year old girl who had contracted AIDS from a brothel. Clinton also spoke about the unjust way that men in the 1980’s were treated when they were too ashamed to tell their loved ones that they were sick with the disease. "We are taught to heal the sick to love them as our own but 25 years ago too many of them died alone."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/clinton-gets-pr.html
And Obama campaigned with Rick Warren and Donnie McClurkin, both are vile homophobes.
At least Bernie stood up for gays and women when he spoke at Liberty U.
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)and has learned its lessons. That book creamed Bill Clinton and the DLC for turning the Democratic Party into the Republican-lite party.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Definitely indicates his campaign is in trouble,
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)to vote for him. Which the polls do indicate.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Some Republicans are sick of the corruption in Washington the DC as progressives are. And some so-called Democrats are willing to embrace the corruption as long as it's their corruption.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)At least Bernie isn't pandering to racists and homphobes like she did.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She knows how to speak their language.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Just like not all Democrats believe in killing Iraqi's for oil profits, or support Chevron's fracking over clean water for the People.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"We, as Democrats right now, should tap into the discontent of Republicans. I want some Obama Republicans!" Candidate Barack Obama.
Double standard or did you also rage against Obama, who made up the cute nickname 'Obamacans' for his hotly sought after Republican crossover voters?
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)The other clowns haven't decided who sits at the big table yet for the next debate.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)galvanize Republican voters to the polls. This is why Sanders will have a better chance in the General. Not that those that hate progressive so much they would be happy with either Clinton or Bush.
What do progressives want that you don't agree with?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Trump speeches.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Besides, Hillary seems to be on much better terms with him:
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)or at least appear to be.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I am now supporting Clinton, a candidate I can trust.
cali
(114,904 posts)irrational Bernie Derangement Syndrome
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and a political class working hand in hand with this country's elites, neither of whom gives a damn for the concerns of the working people -- these are some of the reasons people across the political spectrum are angry.
When things are like this, people are more susceptible to hateful messages. We have seen this historically. If Bernie can channel that anger with a hopeful message, that in my opinion is a Good Thing.
In my encounters with conservative people, I have found that the one thing we can always agree on is this: most politicians in DC are bought and paid for and don't give a damn about the little people, whether workers or small businesses.
I just don't see the problem with trying to sway voters who are angry with the system as it is -- there are an awful lot of us, left, right and center who feel that way.
appalachiablue
(41,153 posts)that they are joining the manipulative demagogue hate fest of Trump which in reality will get them absolutely nowhere in the long term. But if they stop to hear the progressive unified message of candidates like Sanders it would provide them with a route to begin climbing out of stagnation and pain to work for positive change, innovation and a better future. That is my hope anyway. Survival is now at stake from the political stalemate and corporate corruption that has grossly disadvantaged American workers for thirty years.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Why is this so hard to understand?
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)Were not in the general election period............. There are other things one could call it, but I'll leave that to others.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)(How can you tell which is which? Simple - Good Republicans are willing to vote for Hillary, Bad Republicans gravitate towards Bernie.)
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts) stupidicus
(2,570 posts)what they can't understand
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I've seen little sign that this voter is moving, but good luck.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)and Bernie is moving left.
We've gone to far right, that's for sure.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)support war and the Patriot Act.
LoveIsNow
(356 posts)from immigrants and people of color to the people who actually screwed them, and all of us, over?
If someone doesn't, then fascism will come to America. Obviously, white people are on their way to becoming a (numerical, not social) minority, but look to South Africa to see what a tiny minority can do to oppress the majority of a country's people. They always say "it can't happen here," until it does, so I choose to take this threat seriously.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)like them. Or obfuscating his positions. Or pandering. Or using weasel words or triangulating. Bernie doesn't do any of that to try to appeal to voters. His core convictions aren't for sale. He says what he means and means what he says. And the more people who vote for him, the better.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)some Obama Republicans!"- Barack Obama in 2008 when he was a candidate for the nomination.
Would you characterize that as sounding desperate? If so, please do that here and now to demonstrate that you are not using a double standard. Thanks in advance!
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)if somebody who is now a Trump supported changed his/her mind and voted for Bernie that would be a bad thing.
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts).
Last I recall, that was a good thing.
.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)So long as they vote for Bernie Sanders. So long as they vote for Bernie Sanders and not Hillary Clinton.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)But that's not why he's going after them. He doesn't have enough Democratic votes to win, is why.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)To the fight. It's a big tent and I am overjoyed republicans are joining in.
It's a political revolution.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 27, 2015, 03:13 PM - Edit history (1)
at least *one* candidate doesn't write "yee haw" to anyone in TX
I'd also add that ignoring groups we thought were gonna disappear was how we got the fundies, and hampered the left's response because the O'Hair/FFRF/Corliss Lamont types thought that religiosity would have evaporated by 1982 at the latest--they just couldn't cope, and saw the religious left as the bigger traitor
bigotry and reaction we gave up as a lost cause, instead of trying to lower the number of bigots
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Thanks again!!!!!!!!
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)The very idea!
iandhr
(6,852 posts)The people who support Trump are similar to the people who supported George Wallace.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)in other word racists.........thats what were saying.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)I always knew that, but it's nice to see ol' Bernie acknowledge it.
Pathetic.
AzDar
(14,023 posts) 
NEDem
(1,513 posts)First his campaign throws out conspiracy theories, now the candidate himself says he's going after the racist vote. The wheels on the bus aren't going round and round, they are falling off.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)
Broward
(1,976 posts)Meanwhile, the Third Wayers continuously chase voters right.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... which he appeals to them with the way he appeals to their xenophobic tendencies on one level, and their legitimate concerns of their own job security on another.
There's a way we can fix the H-1B program to fix the latter issue so that Americans jobs aren't threatened, but also in a way that we don't hurt those that are trying to get jobs through these EXPLOITATION programs that we've set up that have just given the wealthy elites cheap labor.
Sanders recently published in his immigration platform that he'd like to raise the minimum wage of those on the H-1B program to being well over $100k, which is more than what many of us tech workers have been making recently even if we made that amount with more permanent jobs 15-20 years ago.
Just a couple of weeks ago, Senator Cruz and Jeff Sessions took the bait and put forth a senate bill that would do exactly this amongst other changes to work back the problems with H-1B. This reversed Cruz's earlier support for this program, and more corporatist following candidate Rubio who along with Jeb Bush support another bill that would expand H-1B and that exploitation even more, pointed out in one of their debates that Cruz was for this program before he was "agin it".... This shows that there are many who support the likes of what Cruz is trying to tap in to now, and what Trump has already put out on working to stop H-1B on the Republican side. Bernie has the ONLY "honest opposition" that a candidate has CONSISTENTLY had to H-1B than any presidential candidate running.
Bernie can set the terms of how this program is reformed, so that it appeals to us on the left to preserve our jobs in the same way that it would preserve those on the rights's jobs, but in a way that pulls back on appealing to the xenophobic types by making it expensive enough for the big companies to hire through these guest labor programs so that those hired are treated better and have more options, and it sets the bar higher for all of us to get more access to these jobs and higher wages too. It works hand in hand with Bernie's opposition to a lot of the free trade deals too, which try to set bigger "bottoms" for multinational companies to race to to get cheaper labor overseas, and at the same time work with H-1B, H-2B, and other guest labor programs to have that bottom extend here too.
A real *presidential* candidate channels all of our legitimate concerns about our job security in a way that we try to address that issue appropriately through ways that empower labor movements globally, and not just "kick out the foreigners" method that those on the right would try to double up on the xenophobic types.
Read more here, and in particular in the first block of text, how the different candidates are rated on H-1B including both Trump and Bernie, which he feels are both trying to address this issue, but that he trusts Bernie far more on his approach than Trump.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=434512383412139&id=256809727849073&comment_id=434595833403794&reply_comment_id=434681123395265&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D
Bernie “Feel the Bern” Sanders: Grade B minus. Bern has solid history of fighting against H-1B abuse in the past, but his lack of intensity recently gives me pause. Speak to the microphone in Florida Bernie.
Donald “The Grump” Trump: Grade: B. Donald has the best policy on paper but in interviews and in the debate he seemed to be fogey and forgetful about his H1B policies and subsequent H-1B Hell suffered by IT Pros. After the debate he had an impressive interview with Brietbart about Disney. The Brietbart readership seems OK with Trump now. I do not trust Trump, his behavior erratic, he is bombastic, crude and racist with high disregard for the facts. I do not see Trump taking to world leaders - I shudder at the thought. I had the dream the other day, "I Donald J Trump, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." I screamed, This is no dream! Is this is really happening! I awoke to the face of a nurse.
Ted “The Cuban Texan” Cruz: Grade F. Lovable Ted wanted to raise the visa quota by 500% per congressional testimony. Over a long period of time he has stuck with that position. But lately he has been taking a beating on talk radio and Brietbart and all of a sudden he is walking back on his position. Does not matter, Ted Cruz is not to be trusted. I saw him speak in person, virtually every statement he made was a skillful twist of lies and misinformation played out by his great speaking technique. HE WANTS TO SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT AND ADVOCATES THE GOLD STANDARD. People on Wall Street are scratching their heads. Ted Cruz - take a long cruise on a small ship.
Hillary “Control Freak” Clinton: Grade F. Hillary has strong credentials in foreign policy and many other matters and is strong intellectually and policy wise in economics. In H-1B and for the defense of IT Workers, she flunks badly. She received contributions from Tata and the other Indian outsourcing companies, she has not said BOO about this matter as Patrick mentioned. IT Workers to HILLARY, GET WITH THE PROGRAM! GRADE=F.
H-1B Visas would be a perfect example of an issue if Bernie were to get aggressive, where he could appeal to many Trump voters (that don't necessarily prioritize their more baser xenophobic instincts over their own interests), in away that just about no other presidential candidate can. Cruz has tried this last week or so on this issue, but as this FB post notes, and Rubio noted in their debate, he's not been consistently representing the people's real interests in protecting their jobs over the years either.
I think many here need to step back and realize that he's NOT talking about appealing to the base instincts of many on the right who are in effect lost causes. But many of them, and to some degree many who aren't as tied to the xenophobes, etc. are attracted to the populism of some of Trump's messages (that lets his opposition to H-1B resonate with them more), since the LEGITIMATE issue of the 99% being exploited by the 1% is one that so many candidates running today ignore other than Bernie Sanders, and to some degree a few like Trump do, that are LEGITIMATE cross over voting appeal issues that Bernie can attract votes in a constructive way, not one that feeds the xenophobia, misogyny, etc. that Trump tries to find an easy way to couple with his other more populist messages to appeal to the hard core right.
I wonder how many Republicans disliked Reagan for his trying to appeal to the "Reagan Democrats" through his appeal to the opposite tendencies of many of them deprioritizing their interests in being trade union members for more selfish and xenophobic, etc. aims that Reagan could offer them then. Were Republicans complaining about getting "union types" in their party? No, because they know that the core of Reagan's appeal to them was on baser raw instincts and not their need to get what a union would provide them. We work the reverse of that equation this time around, and steer people to be concerned more about what they would be as Reagan Democrats before in their support for unions in the older days.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)I remember Robert J. Samuelson invoking Vincent Chin to defend NAFTA
Vinca
(50,288 posts)There may be a few semi-sane Trump supporters to extract from the herd.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)13 points higher than his overall support levels. He also does somewhat better among men (44%) than women (37%), but draws very similar levels of support from very conservative (41%), somewhat conservative (45%), and moderate (40%) voters.
Trump does better among strong tea party supporters (52%),
Again, it's pathetic that Sanders would even suggest "courting" these knuckle dragging scum.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)On DI a similar question had been posed and the Republican respnse was a resounding "No!" There will be no measurable crossover votes. http://www.discussionist.com/1015657981
There are only two reasons to keep hammering this meme:
1. Bernie is making it clear that as part of his Presidential run, the party that he despises must be dismantled and demolished. He has never attempted party building. He is more than willing to damage a party while making his run for the Whitehouse. I've been saying this for months, he will damage the Democratic brand for the next 20-24 years if he wins the nomination.
2. The statement attempts to assuage those Bernie supporters that realize there are simply not enough votes. Bernie supporters will need to double the number of voters to be viable in the Primary and more so in the GE..half of his "team" will be Republicans and Libertarians. The reality of this happening is simply not possible. If there is a miracle in this and Bernie makes a successful run for the Whitehouse, that will not not bode well for Democrats in the long term, or retaining a Dem seat in future of the Whitehouse
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)From day one, he has put forth we put aside the wedge issues, because we have made advancements there. And the one area we have not made progress is the middle class $, that is what we need to focus on. He has been reaching out to Republicans for their votes, equally to Democrats, if not more.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And thinks it's useful. I don't see evidence he's banking on a lot of crossovers (which never really happens).
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"We, as Democrats right now, should tap into the discontent of Republicans. I want some Obama Republicans!"- Barack Obama in 2008 when he was a candidate for the nomination.
So did he say that because of #1 or #2? Or did he say that because anyone who wins the WH has to get a taste of votes from the other side's more independent parts. It's electoral basics.
It's interesting to me how many of Hillary's supporters use the same attacks on Bernie they used on Barack. Perhaps you also reviled those comments of his. If you'd like I can link to more than one posters who said Barack was not electable and a big fake who now say Bernie is not electable and a big fake. Or phony. One of them used to misspell 'Barack' as 'Borook' and 'Bareek' and such, now does the constant 'BS' routine. I'd have more respect for that cohort if they owned up to that stuff. Instead you have BOG residents slapping backs with the guy who said Barook was a big phony because now he says Bernie is a phony. To be among such a feckless, windblown crowd is not for me.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Has anyone over there done a poll on who is voting for whom?
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)How dare Sanders help defuse a racist blowhard's popularity among the 'little people' by
redirecting their ire away from racial minorities, towards Wall Street crooks and MIC
war profiteers, where it belongs.
Just who does Sanders think he is anyway? The next President or something?
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)are people that were closeted KKK and wanna be KKK members who were given permission to let they're racist flag fly. I have a hard time believing the BS would be that desperate to get their vote. I hope he has an idea of how to sift through that cesspool.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Sheesh...it all seems pretty mainstream and people still don't get it.
Go Bernie!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Bernie's message is genius.
This is what I say to angry Trump supporters now.
First, I acknowledge their rightful anger. Then I redirect it.
"Americans are right to be angry at the way things are today. You are right to be angry. But let's be angry at the causes of frustration, and not at each other. It is the fat cats who want us to be angry at each other and vote against our self interest."
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)I'm a Hillary supporter, but I don't see any reason to be outraged with Bernie saying this. He's not suggesting appealing to these people's racism - that's been what the GOP has been doing for decades in order to get them to vote against their economic interests.
Trump is absolutely vile, and his supporters are for the most part racist, or at least deeply ignorant. But the dynamics of what made their politics so vile are complicated: these are often rather ignorant people who know deep down that they've been victimized by the economic system, but who have been duped to vote for their own oppressors and blame minorities and immigrants for their problems. Yes, their politics are terrible. But they are also, at least in many cases, victims - unfortunately victims who have participated in their own victimization. If Bernie can get them to take their eyes off immigrants and racial "others" and focus on economic issues instead, it could help steer them away from fascism, and it would help build a populist movement focused on economic justice.
I don't think he'll succeed, and appealing to these people can become dangerous (just ask the GOP), but I see his point.
Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas" would make a good read to understand what the issue is here.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)is not that Sanders is trying to get non traditional voters, but rather his supporters defending Trump supporters coming to dinner under the guise that they're all fed up with wall street, poor, lost their job, etc.
I think it's great if you can bring someone over from the dark side. But where I have an issue is the people that are waiting with open arms for the racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigoted assholes. But think Clinton supporters are the spawns of Satan. WTF is up with that?
Seriously defending bringing ass lint to the democratic party, but wanting to nothing but shit on Clinton and her supporters.
Seriously. Don't. Understand. That.
Trump supporters aren't wall street hatin' poor folk. They're people that hate, pure and simple. Trump has made it ok to say you hate people because of religion, race, even being poor. Go back and listen to him, he says minimum wage is too much.
these ain't poor people lookin' for a savior.
To be clear, I believe Sanders intentions are good.
Number23
(24,544 posts)This whole thing grows more surreal by the day.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)as fellow opponents of marriage equality. They went to places of hate to win votes. Obama also held rallies at which he employed several anti gay evangelists including one who had called us all vampires and child killers and urged war against us. He hire these people in order to attract voters of that bigoted sort. Homophobes to draw homophobes.
Hillary went to Warren's Church, Rick Warren's and pandered like there was no such thing as an LGBT Democrat.
Both of them pandered to hateful people using hateful surrogates, locations and tropes. Of course that was 'just aimed at the gays' so straight folks smugly overlooked it all.
But it is what happened. I have to wonder if you think that was ok. Did you speak out against it?
one_voice
(20,043 posts)To be clear, I believe Sanders intentions are good.
But to answer your interrogation, yes I was pissed. I have family, very close family that I love dearly that are members of the LGBT community. What hurts them hurts me.
Are you finished with your interrogation?
I didn't fault Sanders on bit in fact I said I didn't blame him--that's right you missed that part.
You have a real nice day now.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Cha
(297,378 posts)Keen observation, one_voice.
Hey Maybe trump and bern fans should have it out on a board and see what they think of each other then?
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)The Trumpites may be more pliable than we give them credit for. They are not the religious zealots, after all.
This is the way large-scale shifts in political thought happen. There may be many people who are backing Trump who just want something different. Maybe they could be sold on Bernie's ideas.
Just as Trump appeals to racist tendencies and brings them out in his followers, Bernie could appeal to the working class need for economic fairness. Just as Trump brings the crowds to new lows in hate rhetoric, Sanders could bring new converts to new highs in a quest for economic justice.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and not just the President for a select few, outreach is a great place to start.
You have made a flawed assumption.
Just because a candidate stands up for something that you disagree with doesn't make that politician nor that idea wrong.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)We need a country that is inclusive - where all the elements of society including the white working class feels franchised - not alienated. Thomas Frank's book,"What's the Matter with Kansas?" is largely about this issue and how the rightwing has manipulated the white working class to vote against their own interest. I wondered when progressives would wake up and address this issue. Finally we have someone who is the right person to do this.
It is obvious that many people who would be the typical Trump supporters have a misguided and misdirected anger. The anger is legitimate - who they are blaming is misguided. I have found many people who identify with elements of the rightwing to actually have progressive and leftwing ideals - but ones that have channeled in the wrong direction. God Bless Bernie for his foresightedness.
mythology
(9,527 posts)in Germany in the early 1930s already hated Jewish people, the Roma, Slavic people, gays, blacks etc and thus Hitler came to power, or do you think that people were given an enemy to hate by a leader who wanted power?
Not every Trump supporter would vote for Sanders or Clinton or even one of the other Republicans. Some are angry and feel like Trump speaks to that, but really hold other values if given the chance, some are people blinded by his celebrity, but can be reasoned with. Some people probably worship his hair as some sort of alien being, but hey Sanders has pretty zany hair too and it's not attached to a guy who is batshit crazy.
But writing everybody who currently supports Trump off as a racist or whatever, is just as silly as when Romney wrote off the 47% or as silly as saying that everybody in Germany in the 1930s and 40s hated Jews etc before Hitler came to power.
Very few people are born hating other people. We learn to do so. Which means in theory we can unlearn it. Reaching out to people who disagree with you isn't a sign of weakness. The goal of politics shouldn't be to crush the other guy, especially in a two party system where in a few years the other side might be in power and then you can't expect them to not return the favor. For an example of this, look at the exponential rise in the use of the filibuster in recent sessions of Congress.
ecstatic
(32,717 posts)to support Bernie. As long as a Democrat wins, I'm fine with it, but dealing with the type of voter who swings between Trump/Paul/Sanders is like listening to nails on a chalkboard. Their values / ideology tend to be incoherent, selfish, and unrealistic.
Is it just me or wouldn't it be a lot easier to convert actual democrats?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Dems will be split up among Dem candidates until the primary is decided, but the kind of folks who can be converted on the right are more easily swayed. Repubs have a nightmarish field, so they're easier pickings. And Bernie actually has something to offer them, rather than their own frontrunner, who is going around saying that Americans get paid too much.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Trump supporters were to support BS, the "support" would more than likely be Operation Chaos-esque, where they'd back whoever they perceive to be an easier opponent in the GE. I doubt they'd support him out of good faith or because of a supposed frustration with a shrinking middle class and with Wall Street. They're the same people who raged at Pres. Obama's "socialism" for the past 7 years. No amount of explaining or message crafting from BS will get them to come around. There's no hope for them except to have personal experiences about what's happening to this country economically, and only they can make themselves get over their animosity towards people who are different from them.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Remember, Republicans have most of the governorships now, along with a lot of state legislatures, and they've been busy the last few years, closing abortion clinics, stripping funding from schools and infrastructure, pouring money into police departments, selling off public assets to private cronies, making states 'right to work' and union busting, underfunding all sorts of programs for low income folks.
Will it affect their racial bigotry? Doubtful. But just maybe Bernie can get through to some that their real enemies, the people 'different from them' are the obscenely wealthy who exploit them as cheap labour, and not the guy next door who just happens to have a permanent deep tan and a slightly different accent.
Cha
(297,378 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Martin Eden
(12,872 posts)If so, then he should be criticized.
If not, then he is doing what every candidate for every office should do -- make an effort to persuade ALL voters that he and his policies represent the voter's best interests better than the other candidates.
The vast majority of Teabaggers are in the same economic boat as the 99%. They have been manipulated by decades of propaganda into voting against their own interests. Some of them are bigots and most of them are ignorant, but nearly all who support Trump are angry and fed up with status quo Washington politicians. THAT is one of the reasons why Bernie Sanders has a much broader appeal than Hillary Clinton.
To achieve real progress it is necessary to win the presidency AND regain Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress. Voters who cast their ballot for Sanders have been persuaded that he represents their interests better than the other choices and want to see him be effective as president. Some (not all, but many) of the crossovers who vote for Sanders are likely to check the D box in congressional races as well.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)Martin Eden
(12,872 posts)First, the primary must be won.
Next, the general election must be won.
Then once in office, implenting policy is (or should be) the goal.
All of this should be obvious, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)Martin Eden
(12,872 posts)If you're unable or unwilling to explain the point you're trying to make, then why bother posting at all?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...have gotten a raw deal voting for supply side economics etc.
They hate, and they're attracted to people who speak hate...
They'll give an ear to the rational but that's it, they eat hate and the more of it the better for them
Martin Eden
(12,872 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)Every Trump supporter is a racist, homophobe, gun nutter and woman hater, or so I have been told.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)So long as the candidate isn't proposing hating on or policies that hurt women, minorities or immigrants.
Bernie Sanders doesn't do that. So, what's the problem?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...gotten a raw deal.
They're not, most of them just hate and respond to messages of hate.
Cha
(297,378 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He doesn't have to change his left wing message. He has to change nothing. No evolution necessary.
