The real scandal in the Bernie/DNC feud is the one nobody is talking about

[Proserpina]

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/22/the_real_scandal_in_the_berniednc_feud_is_the_one_nobody_is_talking_about/

...The reason this controversy sprung up in the first place is that the DNC has been facilitating a monopoly, with all the usual results from that decision. In fact, it’s a case study in why policymakers should aggressively protect against monopolies.

NGP VAN, the private company that provides database software for voter information, has a sole-source contract with the DNC. And the DNC exploits this to force state parties and candidates that want their voter data, which has been refined and sharpened by campaigns for years, to use NGP VAN.

This gives the DNC incredible power to dictate who gets to see the voting history and contact information for every registered voter in America. It also creates enormous potential risk.

What you need to know about the VAN, as veteran campaign consultant and county party official David Atkins points out, is that it’s not particularly good. I can back that up, based on my experience with it as a volunteer data coordinator in 2008. I’m told that the VAN (and those who use it routinely refer to it that way, with the “the”) hasn’t improved much since then. And why should it? When you have a sole-source contract, you have little incentive to provide quality service...

more

[NCTraveler]

1. Is the Sanders theft.

The desperate deflection from Sanders Campaign is every bit an admission of guilt. Interestingly enough, Sanders own response is keeping his campaigns theft front and center. His response is a gift to the Clinton campaign. She didn't have to spend a dollar.

[Ken Burch]

10. There was no theft. Any data was destroyed. Your outrage is unjustified.

You betray your avatar's memory every time you attack the only progressive candidate in the race.

[NCTraveler]

13. Lol. Betrayal!!!!

Kind of like when Sanders stood on the opposite side of the isle from Kennedy in opposition to a pathway to citizenship for over ten million people? Do you know Sanders fought against it even having an up or down vote? We had the votes to pass if it would have made it past cloture. Sanders fought against even having an up or down vote.

[Ken Burch]

14. Teddy would never be on a vendetta to drive the only progressive candidate out of the race

(and no, bashing Bernie can't help O'Malley, because O'Malley can never get progressive or POC votes after all the police murders of blacks he signed off on in Baltimore).

Bernie was never, ever indifferent on race. He never deserved your hostility.

[NCTraveler]

16. You made it about my avatar for some reason.

Just pointing out that Clinton stood by Kennedy in supporting a pathway to citizenship for over ten million people while Sanders was so opposed he didn't even want the legislation to come up for a vote. Obama, Biden, Boxer, Kennedy, Clinton..... All supported a pathway to citizenship and are on record as fighting for a fair vote. Sanders. Other side of the isle. Didn't even want it brought up for a vote.

You are the one who deflected by bringing my avatar into it. Love me some Kennedy. Love me some Clinton. I support a pathway to citizenship. It's nice Sanders says he does now that he is running for President.

[John Poet]

69. Clinton should have stood by Teddy (and Bernie)

when they opposed going to war in Iraq...


Instead, she cast a cowardly vote in order not to appear "weak"
in advance of her presidential campaign.

[riversedge]

26. You have nothing but attempts to shift the conversation

[daleanime]

51. Which means you....

are the only one to determine what we discuss?

[baldguy]

74. The topic of discussion is in the OP.

It's easy enough for you to start a new thread if you want to discuss something else. Whining when someone points this out is petty.

[tazkcmo]

12. Repeat a lie often enough. n/t

[NCTraveler]

17. Correct. They think they will keep repeating it was a plant, the DNC,

Clinton, a lone hack, etc. They truly think if they repeat those conspiracies that people will just start to believe them. Sanders is a career politician and knows how to game the system.

[daleanime]

54. Which is why....

he's so loved on Wall Street.

[Z_California]

62. Why do you and others continue to lie about this?

Do you really think DU members don't know what happened? Do you really think your characterization of this as a "theft" helps your cause?

[RandySF]

2. The Sanders campaign was free to build its own database.

[upaloopa]

4. He's an independent running as a Democrat

using a Democratic data base and complaining that the DNC isn't being fair to him.
He is taking advantage of that which he preached against for years.

He should have built relationships in the Democratic Party like other long time Dems have but no, he spent his time like an old man yelling at people to get off his lawn.

[Vinca]

6. Apparently you would prefer he run as an Independent and split the vote.

Hillary isn't a sure thing in the general and that would be the kiss of death for her campaign. Bernie ran as a Democrat specifically to avoid doing that. He doesn't want a Republican elected.

[Live and Learn]

8. Stop with the ageist, disgusting rhetoric. Bernie has joined the party and is now one of us

so quit spewing nonsense.

[tecelote]

35. Not only is he one of us...

He's a real Democrat with the good of the people in mind instead of the good of the stockholder.

[MyNameGoesHere]

78. I was not aware that Sanders had

officially changed his political party affiliation in the Senate. I guess the clerks are a little behind because he is still listed as an independent. Perhaps it will all get straightened out after the primaries.

[cui bono]

91. Petty. What do you hope to accomplish with a post like that? n/t

[MyNameGoesHere]

100. The truth?

Sanders is "one of us" to become president and it's convenient. However he sold socialist out.

[cui bono]

111. If you want to accomplish "the truth" then let's have at it.

Sanders is more "one of us" than any other candidate in the Democratic primary. Hillary is a centrist and is closer to Republicans on many issues than Sanders. Sanders most embraces Democratic Party values, principles and ideals. Just look at their stances on all the issues, you'll see.

Your comment about selling socialist out makes no sense to me. Care to explain? He was never a socialist and was not in the socialist party and hasn't changed his positions on anything in order to run for president, so how could he have done that?

If you truly believe what you say then spell it out with policy.

- What are Sanders' policy stances that you were so against before he started running as a Dem?
- What policy stances did he change in order to run as a Dem?
- What policy stances does Hillary have that are more line with the Democratic Party than Bernie's?

.

[AgingAmerican]

44. Show where he 'Preached against it for years'

Or go home

[BlueCheese]

71. Here you go.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181

“You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party."

“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”

[AgingAmerican]

79. Three sentences are not 'preaching for years'

But nice try.

[BlueCheese]

80. I see people claim all the time that one civil rights march well over 40 years ago...

counts as a lifetime dedication to civil rights.

Nonetheless, why don't you tell me how many quotes you need?

[AgingAmerican]

81. Link to these years and years of speeches he made 'preaching against'

The Democratic party.

[BlueCheese]

82. I imagine there's a reason that in decades in Congress...

... Sanders never bothered to identify himself as a Democrat, and determinedly did not do so. Combine that with the above quotes, the fact that he called for a primary challenge to Obama in 2012, among other things, it's safe to say he's not a big fan of the Democratic Party.

That's his right. And it's the right of the huge majority of the party's leaders and elected officials to endorse his opponent as a result.

[BlueCheese]

83. Also, this marks the end of this conversation for me. Gotta go.

[AgingAmerican]

84. A few cherry picked sentences

Do not equal preaching against for years and years.

[cui bono]

92. No, that is not what is being said. What is being said is that he actually has a decades long

record of fighting for civil rights. No one thinks one event is worth 40 years. Get a grip. The fact is that he actually has been fighting for equal rights for everyone for over 40 years.

What do you hope to accomplish with a post that mischaracterizes what people are actually saying? It only makes you look bad.

.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. Peached against it for years? No, in reality he founded the largest Democratic caucus in the

Congress. When you employ this extreme insult language at Bernie, you are also insulting lots of other Democrats and making it clear that you yourself have very little knowledge of the workings of the US Congress over the last couple of decades.

[cui bono]

90. Sounds to me like you want people to talk about Hillary cackling and Benghazi.

Otherwise I have no idea why you would say the things you have said. Unless you are only trying to make Hillary supporters look bad.

What do you think you will accomplish with a post like that?

.

[Gothmog]

87. The Kochs have done this for the RNC

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/the_koch_brothers_just_took_a_huge_step_toward_a_gop_civil_war/ The Kochs now control the RNC database and now control the RNC

[Agschmid]

3. I have no problem with the DNC maintaining this database.

It's a good system IMO, and this large database helps small campaigns be more organized and know who and how to reach people.

To me it's an economy of scale issue.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. ^^^ Yes, this ^^^ ...

But that is not as sexy as an "establishment figures are rigging the system" story.

[Agschmid]

9. Nope not nearly as sexy.

Imagine if every candidate every year had to start from scratch building a voter list, it would be insanity. Think campaigns run long now? Think they are intrusive now? Imagine how that would be.

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. True ...

and, as quite as it is kept, the DNC's maintenance of the data, actually, levels the playing field for lesser known, lesser financed campaigns.

[cui bono]

98. It's not that the DNC is maintaining the database, it's that there's no competition for the company

that actually handles the software/data. That they are the only ones who provide the service and therefore something can go wrong. It's not about a conspiracy at all, it's about the risk of this situation of having a monopoly in place for such a system.

.

[1StrongBlackMan]

101. Sure it is ...

Riddle me this DU:

What do NGP VAN and Killer Mike have in common?.

[Larkspur]

5. NGP VAN has a competitor -- Nationbuilder.com

but Nationbuilder does not contain some additional data gathered to help find voters sympathetic to a campaign's message.

I know that my state of CT sells its voter data for about $300 but companies like Nationbuuilder and NGP Van take that data and build GUI tools to access it. Both companies offer web site development.

[MohRokTah]

15. The REAL scandal is a DINO demanding the DNC bend to his will.

He could have joined the Democratic Party ages ago and actually participated in the process to determine how party data etc. is distributed to candidates.

Instead he comes to the game late and then whines when the party doesn't bend to his demands,

Excuse me if I have nothing but contempt for the DINO.

[cascadiance]

18. You mean a DINO HAVING the DNC bend to HER will!!!

THAT is the issue that seems more obvious to everyone!

Whining when he grows the party after the LAME leadership can't win elections in states for Dems there when they pass minimum wage increases at the same time.

[MohRokTah]

21. The only DINO running for president is SAnders.

He's never been a Democrat and never shown anything but contempt for the Democratic Party. He is not representative of Democratic values thus is nothing but a Democrat In Name Only.

[pangaia]

41. Bernie is ten times the Democrat Hillary is, in my view.

[MohRokTah]

43. That says more about your understanding of the Democratic Party than it does of either...

Sanders or Hillary.

[pangaia]

45. ugghh oh well here goes..

I did NOT say anything about the Democratic Party.
I said Democrat.

You see.. THAT is the whole point.

[MohRokTah]

46. The two are inseparable.

The Democratic Party is a collection of Democrats.

Simple semantics.

And logic dictates that joining the Democratic Party after a thirty year political career for no other reason than to take advantage of the party infrastructure in a bid for the presidency clearly makes the said politician a "Democrat In Name Only".

[pangaia]

47. No. Bernie is the REAL Democrat.

The Democratic Party has become . what's the right word??... 'democratic'...l in name only. Even Eisenhower was to the left of today's Democratic Party.

[MohRokTah]

49. You could not be more incorrect

He is a Democrat in Name Only. He has belittled the Democratic Party and the party's values for three decades, and then joins to take advantage of the party.

By definition, the man is a DINO.

[cascadiance]

52. You talk about it as if it is which football team they are on. What Democratic VALUES do they have?

That is what is most important in my book! Bernie has far more of the same VALUES that traditional and far more respected and popular Democrats like FDR had than other CORPORATE favoring (aka *Economic Royalist* favoring) Democrats of today, that put big money people's values over the average person's which is what Democrats like FDR would have frowned on!

[MohRokTah]

55. No, I talk about it as if it is a political party and this is politics.

Which it is.

[cascadiance]

58. You talk about party membership as if it means everything and substance means nothing to you!

WHY?

Maybe because what it stands for isn't that important but that you want to just get loyalists because that is all that counts for those at the top that want us to vote for their control over us and not to give anything back to us in terms of proper stances on issues to have our government work for US and not them!

[MohRokTah]

60. Party loyalty is incredibly important.

Without it, the wing nuts would run roughshod over the nation.

I'll take any loyal Democrat over any DINO Socialist any day of the week. The Democrats have stood between the wing nuts and a theocracy for my entire life while socialists sit back and whine.

[baldguy]

75. Oh, god! Yes! +10,000

It seems that the Berniestas can't or won't understand that a group of dedicated individuals working for their common interests - and honest-to-goodness PARTY - is necessary to get anything and everything they want done. Yet they spend most of their time tearing down that party.

It's almost as if they want to see the Democrats lose...

[pangaia]

102. I prefer to BUILD UP the party to where

it actually works for the betterment of human beings !

[baldguy]

112. So, you're in favor of destroying the party in order to save it, huh?

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 06:19 PM - Edit history (1)

If you can't get 100% of what you want instantly, without any actual work on your own part, or any uncomfortable complications, then you'll be perfectly happy seeing other people suffer through Republican governance.

Here's a clue for you: Getting a party that works for you requires work from you. If you want to build a party, Sanders isn't the guy you want leading the way. He only became a Democrat this year for crass political expediency. OTOH That's exactly why Hillary will win: because she's been working for this - FOR the party, FOR the people and AGAINST the GOP - for going on 40 yrs.

[pangaia]

113. Oh jesus on a stick !!

Give me a break .

What in the fuck are you talking about?

[cui bono]

95. No, you talk about it like an amature who doesn't understand what policy and principles are.

You think you just root for certain people because they have a certain letter after their name and pretend they have the people's best interest at heart. Well they don't. DLC/Third Wayers like Hillary have moved the party so far to the right it is now centrist and has allowed the GOP to go extreme right wing.

Bernie has stuck to the same Democratic principles that the party leadership used to embrace before they sold out and triangulated their principles and ideals away. The other Clinton helped that immensely.

You need to go study the party's history before you go spouting off about who is the real Democrat. Bernie is more of a Democrat than Hillary could ever hope to be.

.

[pangaia]

103. Very good. But we waste our time with Moh.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Bernie co-founded the Progressive Caucus and helped build it into the largest Democratic caucus

in the Congress. Those of you who failed to criticize the Party's values when they were misplaced and incorrect failed your fellow citizens, for example this Party was extremely slow to fully embrace the LGBT community it now takes for granted as a loyal voting block. Bill was the first nominee to even mention us. If those 'values' were fine with you, that was not helpful to others. Prior to Bill, this Party was not providing an effective counter to Republican AIDS brutality. They placed fear over principle, and those who were critical of the Party for doing so were righteous in their criticism. Today, 12-28-2015 over 3,500 people will die of AIDS in Africa alone. This Party lagged.

The Party is different today because of the constant efforts of many who had to be harsh critics. This Party, it has in the past been the Party of slavery and racism, but it was changed by critics, do you assert that those critics were also wrong to counter the Party line? Were LGBT and our allies wrong to criticize bigotry in this Party? We should have silently allowed that to continue to serve the machine?
Your values sound really conservative. They are not at all my values. I did not nod along with this Party when it voted for DOMA.

[MohRokTah]

68. and the Progressive caucus is NOT the Democratic Party. eom

[Hissyspit]

72. And you think $250,000 a year is middle-class.

[MohRokTah]

77. In terms of class defintion, $250K/year is the top end of upper middle class.

This is due primarily to the cost of living in large cities.

[A Simple Game]

85. Damn right they aren't Democrats, just like the Tea party isn't part of the Republican party either.

Never mind that the Democrats in the Progressive caucus have elected him their leader again and again. And unlike the Republicans we value Country before party, don't we? Damn Republicans always putting party before democratic principles!

The Democratic "Party" would be better off with Bernie running as an Independent, which he is, than as a Democrat. Who cares if he would take 30% of the Democratic vote and 25% of the Republican vote and 45% of the Independent vote and probably win the election or at least throw the election to the Republicans? Who cares if he would beat Hillary by doing a flanking maneuver, just as long as he doesn't do it as a Democrat, which is looking more and more likely that he will. Why we would be better off even if he ran as a Republican!

Who cares that the Democratic Party is a "big tent" Party, a vocal minority of the Party want Party purity and see no reason that the diverse people(s) that compose the Party don't agree with us and bow to our will.

[pangaia]

104. God almighty, will you ever give up?

Do you not comprehend what other are saying to you?

Would you have supported the 'Democratic party" in 1860 just because it was the fucking democratic Party?

[MohRokTah]

105. .

[pangaia]

109. It has EVERYTHING to do with anything.

You seem to support the "Democratic Party" just as a name.
Well.... it was called the "Democratic Party" in 1860 also. Do you know what it stood for then?

[MohRokTah]

110. .

[treestar]

99. Oh bullshit

quit trying to dismiss most of the Democrats who are actually in the party as non Democrats.

[pangaia]

106. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[catnhatnh]

50. I'd much rather my candidate have contempt

for the democratic party than than the contempt for democratic ideals that yours has...

[Scuba]

73. ^^ This right fucking here ^^

[cascadiance]

56. Sanders is the OPPOSITE of DINO... He doesn't value the "NAME" of Democrat as much as DINOs do...

... like certain ones that have FORGOTTEN traditional Democratic values and have ALIGNED with economic royalists that traditional Democrats in both name AND substance have stood against in the past in supporting the rights and welfare of the 99% instead of the 1%.

Bernie feels that it isn't as important that he has the Democratic Party NAME as he has its values, and that its values are supported in the next election. That is why he's running in the Democratic Party primary so that he doesn't play a spoiler in our "winner take all system" that doesn't give an independent a fair chance to win, but just play a spoiler unless we get something like Instant Runoff Voting, which corporate lobbyists will keep their cronies from passing in either of the two major parties to keep their control over the system.

[MohRokTah]

57. By your own argument...

Sanders is, by definition, a DINO.

[cascadiance]

59. So what makes Hillary a REAL democrat besides her being a party member (aka its NAME!!!)?

THAT is what makes her a DINO..

Do Democratic Party (and therefore progressive values that it traditionally in the past represented) mean ANYTHING to you, or is it more being "on the team", so you can have that party's NAME in front of your name!

[pangaia]

107. LOL!!

[earthside]

36. My words exactly!

Sanders proves how being a real Democrat is more than filling-out a voter registration form and checking a party affiliation box.

Hillary Clinton is more in the mode of Pres. George H. W. Bush than she is even of her husband back in 1992.

In 1992 James Caravelle laid out three areas of focus for the campaign: "It's the economy, stupid"; "Change vs. more of the same" and "Don't forget health care."

Mrs. Clinton is certainly not running on the economy as the Hillarians constantly remind us here on DU with their criticism that Sen. Sanders in a one dimensional economic candidate. Furthermore, Hillary is certainly for more of the same, i.e. an Obama third term; and she and her supporters would rather forget the problems with Obamacare and apparently are not interested in bold health care reform.

Hillary has become the DINO in any honest, classical definition of the term 'Democrat' ... with this emphasis on national security, she could indeed be a 1990s Repuglican.

[pangaia]

48. Very good.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

23. Tell us thre issues that are toward the top of your list of things that need to change

just curious

[MohRokTah]

24. I want the Obama administration to continue.

Thus I am for the REAL Democrat in the race, Hillary Clinton.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

25. not an answer to the question

what are some issues that you have strong feelings about

[MohRokTah]

27. Yes, it was an answer to the question.

That you do not like the answer is of no concern to me.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

29. Again - what things are important to you

ha ha ha - know yourself - ha ha ha

[MohRokTah]

30. See my answer above. eom

[SoLeftIAmRight]

31. I see you are a good dancer

Ha Ha HA

[MohRokTah]

32. I see you ignore answers you do not like.

HA HA HA

[SoLeftIAmRight]

33. now I see you are funny

ha ha ha

[MohRokTah]

34. Whereas you do not rise to the level of 100 ROFLs hilarity.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

38. And you can run - fast - from what you care about

what things are important to you

[MohRokTah]

39. I answered your question.

See the post above.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

40. What are three things you would like to see Hillary changs

can you count to three

[LiberalArkie]

63. Results

On Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:41 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

What are three things you would like to see Hillary changs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=952656

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Asking someone if they can count to three is over the top flaming. Moh already answered many times,. No need to insult after that except to flame.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:45 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Childish insult.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I wish there was a way to "alert" on these frivolous alerts.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing outside TOS.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

64. thanks - he - is bad news

alerts on anything after causing trouble

[Bluenorthwest]

67. Yep.

nt

[cui bono]

96. omg, what an idiotic alert.

Someone is mad because they are being challenged to actually discuss policy I guess.

Critical thinking is hard.

.

[pangaia]

108. Nothing seems to be a concern to you.

I just wonder where you got the little fake Hillary brush off gesture.

[Orangepeel]

19. This is silly. Campaigns get data through the DNC because doing so makes it affordable for them

That's the best thing the DNC does. Campaigns don't have to use it.

[leftupnorth]

20. Party loyalty for the sake of the party is particularly distasteful.

Sort of brings out the cultish tendencies I didn't think existed in my party.

It's absolutely bizarre.

[WillyT]

22. K & R !!!

[Phlem]

28. K&R!!!!

[GeorgeGist]

37. The real scandal is piss-poor journalism.

[Faux pas]

42. Kickin'

to read later.

[Sheepshank]

53. NOPE.....i do not agree that this is the biggest scandal

it's another red herring employed to deflect from the real scandal that regardless of how poor the software is, how poorly it's managed, Bernie employees chose not to comply with MOU and contractual agreement to leave others voter information alone. They read, manipulated data, harvested. saved and we still don't know if it's all been deleted and not being used by the Bernie camp. That is the real scandal.

[matt819]

61. Follow the money

It would also be interesting to see the financial link between DNC/Wasserman-Schultz and NGP VAN. Wanna bet there's a connection, and not merely contractual?

[BlueCheese]

70. I can think of few poorer uses of money...

... than maintaining multiple competing independent databases of Democratic voters. Why spent twice or three times the money when you don't have to?

[seabeyond]

76. everything but Sanders people stealing data. This is why the one day story continues on, hurting

Sanders. Own it. Apologize. Move on. People forget it.

[cui bono]

97. No way. We want a full investigation. If Sanders is so wrong why would he demand that?

He wouldn't. The question becomes why are Hillary and her supporters to anxious to move on from this? Let's find out what really happened and how.

.

[Gothmog]

86. Have you worked on a campaign or used VAN?

The VAN is a major advantage to the Democratic party. The Kochs are in the process of setting up their own database and the RNC is worried that the Kochs will be able to control the party with the control of this data http://trofire.com/2015/06/17/after-giving-control-to-the-kochs-the-rnc-wants-out/

The Republicans have given total control of the party to Charles and David Koch. Realizing that the Kochs own the GOP, some members of the Republican National Committee (RNC) are reconsidering the Kochs’ role in conservative politics.

Last year, the Koch brothers and the RNC reached a deal where both parties shared voting data for the midterm elections; voter addresses, emails, phone numbers, etc. That deal has now expired and now the Kochs have a donkey-stick-carrot relationship with GOP candidates, according to Jon Ward, senior political correspondent of Yahoo News.

Before the deal, the RNC had struggled to digitize Republican campaign efforts, including the construction of voter databases. The solve this problem, the RNC turned to the Kochs for help. The Kochs’ platform, known as i360, has gained popularity among Republican campaigns and now candidates are turning on the RNC.

The RNC recoiled at the Kochs’ apparent control of GOP voter data, creating a rivalry between the RNC and the titanic Kochs. Essentially, the Kochs created a threat by doing the RNC’s job of potentially securing votes for GOP candidates.

The DNC was way ahead of the RNC on databases and so the Kochs funded their own database and now the Kochs control the RNC.

The premise of this thread appears to be letting the DNC control the database is wrong but this premise is flawed when you look at what happens when a third party gets control

[Gothmog]

88. The Koch brothers just took a huge step toward a GOP civil war

If the OP does not want the DNC to control the database, then maybe we should follow the example of the RNC http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/the_koch_brothers_just_took_a_huge_step_toward_a_gop_civil_war/

The party started to lose its bearings as long ago, as in the ’90s when it took on the self-righteousness of a religious crusade with its unwillingness to accept the legitimacy of a Democratic president. The undisciplined behavior that characterized that time was sanctioned by Party officials and led by long standing movement figures and conservative media stars. They apparently didn’t realize that they were creating a monster of a grassroots base that would someday call itself the Tea Party. In fact, it seemed to come as complete surprise when the monster turned on them in recent years and took the Party into its own hands. Republicans who had spent half a century deriding their opposition for being “appeasers” suddenly found themselves walking on eggshells, scared to death to cross their own voters who took all their messaging seriously and expected results. Even with a congressional majority, Republican elected leaders found they no longer had the power to negotiate or make a deal on the party’s behalf.

They also did not seem to realize that this monster is extremely wealthy and very, very powerful. And it is taking control:

The RNC is now openly arguing … that the Kochs’ political operation is trying to control the Republican Party’s master voter file, and to gain influence over — some even say control of — the GOP.

“I think it’s very dangerous and wrong to allow a group of very strong, well-financed individuals who have no accountability to anyone to have control over who gets access to the data when, why and how,” said Katie Walsh, the RNC’s chief of staff.

The Republican base has exerted its strength at the ballot box the last few cycles by challenging and beating incumbents, even some in the leadership like former House majority leader Eric Cantor. Now the Koch Brothers, the wealthy patrons of the Tea Party cause, are taking over the voter data files. You can certainly see why the party establishment might be alarmed.

The RNC is now under the control of the Kochs due to the Kochs control of the RNC database.

[Douglas Carpenter]

89. intentionally misled. I suppose that is the same as lying

[Live and Learn]

94. K&R nt