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redqueen

(115,103 posts)
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:06 AM Sep 2012

Have you ever seen an article about how women with children have a harder time getting dates?

And how it isn't fair because what are women supposed to do, stay virgins or get abortions until they join a dating site? How as a woman you're expected to be psychic and know beforehand if a relationship won't work out, so that you can stay childless for Mr. Right?

Or how about older women having a harder time getting dates with men their own age? And it's so unfair, cause what are they supposed to do? Stop time?

And let's not even get started about looks! The media's popular 'dorky chubby guy gets hot girlfriend' trend has resulted in some interesting experiences, as we all know.

Is there any example of this kind of entitlement where women are concerned? Maybe I've missed them, but I always got the impression that women just accepted these little unfairnesses as part of life. It's even arguable that some of these aren't even necessarily unfair, so that makes it even more puzzling.

I read an article recently about how unfair it is that women are less likely to date jobless men. But who says jobless men are entitled to dates? There are fewer women willing to date jobless men... so? There are fewer men willing to date women their own age, or women with kids. That's life.

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Have you ever seen an article about how women with children have a harder time getting dates? (Original Post) redqueen Sep 2012 OP
Well, I haven't experienced this entitlement HERVEPA Sep 2012 #1
i had no interest in dating a man who did not work. the amount of money was never important. seabeyond Sep 2012 #2
"But who says jobless men are entitled to dates?" MadrasT Sep 2012 #3
Those are all common topics on dating sites aletier_v Sep 2012 #4
it's pretty sucky, especially after 40. seabeyond Sep 2012 #5
Ehh, I don't it seriously anymore. aletier_v Sep 2012 #6
i think that is what i would experience seabeyond Sep 2012 #7
Well yeah, complaining on a dating site would make sense. redqueen Sep 2012 #8
It sounds frustrating. MadrasT Sep 2012 #10
Actually given I work around women all the time, ismnotwasm Sep 2012 #9
Okay JustAnotherGen Sep 2012 #11
i LOVE your post. i wanted to copy and paste so many points of yours seabeyond Sep 2012 #12
Thanks JustAnotherGen Sep 2012 #13
Awwwe I love this!!! redqueen Sep 2012 #15
Haha, wow! That is an awesome post! redqueen Sep 2012 #14
"women with children have a harder time getting dates?" mzteris Sep 2012 #16
 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
1. Well, I haven't experienced this entitlement
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:18 AM
Sep 2012

but then, I haven't gone looking for it. I'm 63, and have dated women from 6 years younger to 4 years older, with looks generally appropriate to their age.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
2. i had no interest in dating a man who did not work. the amount of money was never important.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:29 AM
Sep 2012

him being able to take care of himself was important. just as i expected me to take care of myself. it was not a matter of him paying my way. i never allowed that. but, i was not going ot pay his way either.

i do not get this argument, personally.

we all have our standards. mine was being able to take care of self.

if a man doesnt want me cause i have kids. i get it. and thanks for being honest. certainly would not be healthy for my kids.

if a man did not want me cause he wanted a young thing, thanks for being honest. there are tons of men that hang with women their age. why would i want that disrespect projected toward me.

meh... to the whole issue.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
3. "But who says jobless men are entitled to dates?"
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:31 AM
Sep 2012

Jobless men who can't get dates?

I make a pile of money. Unless I want to be alone for the rest of my life, I can't make "equal or greater earning" a requirement for a partner. It would narrow the pool of candidates to a handful of 1%-ers. Eeeew.

A man who makes less $$ than me is fine. I don't mind making somewhat greater financial contributions toward the relationship. If he has a work ethic and tries and can support himself on his own, that's good enough for me to consider him to be partner material. And if our relationship can elevate his standard of living because of I am fortunate to have more $$ resources, I'm happy for that. But he has to be able to contribute. It's a partnership.

I want a partner, not a dependent.

If I wanted a dependent, I would have had a child.

It is what it is.

I would never be comfortable in a relationship where I was financially dependent on my partner. Not my style. So why would I choose a partner who would be financially dependent on me?

I can't speak for other women, but that's how it works for me.

There are tons of reasons people "rule people out" of their dating pool. So what? As you said, that's life.

aletier_v

(1,773 posts)
4. Those are all common topics on dating sites
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
Sep 2012

And yes, I've seen tons of bitching about how unfair it all is.

Women often complain that they meet more unemployed men, and I thought about myself and realized that EVERY women I met had been during a period of unemployment. Then I realized... when I'm working, I'm busier and have less time to meet women, so it makes complete sense I'm meet more when I'm unemployed.

Welcome to the dating world, it's pretty sucky, especially after 40.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
5. it's pretty sucky, especially after 40.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:46 AM
Sep 2012

i think that is the bottomline. didnt like it in the day. wouldnt want it now. much empathy....

aletier_v

(1,773 posts)
6. Ehh, I don't it seriously anymore.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:54 AM
Sep 2012

Once you realize the truth of it, it's easier to shrug your shoulders.

The truth is that after 40, there aren't many good apples left in the barrel so you find other things to do. I put out a measured effort in line with my expectations now.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
7. i think that is what i would experience
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:55 AM
Sep 2012

personally, if i found myself single. i have never been one to need another person, so being alone is no big deal to me.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
8. Well yeah, complaining on a dating site would make sense.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:00 PM
Sep 2012

It's hardly an 'issue' but at least the whinging would be topical there.

But Time magazine? Really?

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
10. It sounds frustrating.
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:30 PM
Sep 2012

And I hear similar stories/complaints from single friends who are actively dating.

I have never "dated"... I just sort of meet people randomly, we have stuff in common so we start hanging out, one thing leads to another and it becomes a relationship. But I never actively intentionally "dated". Never cared if I had a partner or not, so I never went looking for one.

ismnotwasm

(41,979 posts)
9. Actually given I work around women all the time,
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:29 PM
Sep 2012

I hear all those complaints. One women, my age actually composed a unintentionally hilarious 'do not date' list though by hard earned personal experiences.
Lets see-I'll try to remember as much as I can--has to have a job, with no history of extended joblessness, has to own own house or have a stable place to live, no excess baggage-- like more than one teenager he's still paying child support for for, no one paying child support to two (or more) different women. No 'crazy' ex- wives, oh, No deadbeat Dads either. No drinkers to excess, no one in a 12 step program, no one who has been in prison, no bikers. No couch potatoes. (My friend loves to dance)

There was more, but that's off the top of my head.

Another women I know is getting remarried--after 25 years of being single. She refused to compromise her values, never felt like she needed a relationship for fulfillment and focused on working and raising her kids.

I have a single male friend who won't date what he doesn't consider 'age appropriate' which in his case is mid 40's to mid fifties. On the other hand, I work with a younger woman who marries a man 20 years her senior. He tends to treat her like a child in certain ways

I think it's hard out there. I know both men and women who have made fools out of themselves and each other. Society wise, it's my guess women have it rougher. It would be interesting to find an article

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
11. Okay
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:40 PM
Sep 2012

I probably missed something at DU that went down but -

It's ridiculous for men to whine about that. Now a bit of background - I've done some ghost writing, and some writing under my own 'name' - mostly in the area of heart space issues. One of the people I've ghost written for (and continue to) is a dating guru who targets women in their SOLID 30's and beyond, successful, well educated, etc. etc. I also have a friend (very good with drawing information out of men) who operates a dating service for successful men in the tri-state area that I help 'coach' prior to turning them loose! My husband would say I'm very good and making this demographic of men bring their A-Game.

Now granted my approach in the dating world as a Solid Single . . . and by Solid Single I mean: marriage was for me ONLY IF something "as good as me" came along. Make sense? It's a would be nice - but truly - marriage is NOT necessary for men or women to have a full life. Look into Bella De Paolo's work and blog for insight on this amazing demographic that I just left this past April.

And - my approach as one who mused in articles and coached in person - was the exact same thing.


Time and again - my husband is a perfect example of this - that gregarious outgoing A Type 'successful' man NEVER married and NO KID 40 years of age and beyond could care less about your job, your salary, your education and yep - even your looks. They aren't looking for a 10. A lot them were nerds, or they were the blue collar guys that got looked over for the guy who went to college to become an accountant, mid-level manager somewhere - back in their 20's. They focused their 20's and 30's on accomplishment and achievement. Some of this is internal drive - and some of it is well . . .

Women, sometimes we can be really mean.
He's too short.
His shoulders aren't broad enough.
He doesn't have this type of degree. I don't like they way he dresses.
I don't like the way he holds his fork.<---Okay - that was one of my pet peeves that could kill a first date unless a man had a British accent but I digress.

This 'man' has heard it all. Experienced it all.

And now flip it - there are a lot of never married, no kids women in their MID 30's and beyond that are just as accomplished, just as driven and point blank - were either too busy working or too busy having fun or a mixture of both (C'est moi! ) to be bothered with marriage and kids. Throw in a couple of long term relationships that went nowhere and voila - 36 and single.

So he decides he wants to settle down, and she decides she wants to settle down. They (if on the coast or in major metropolitan areas) can indeed meet without ever clicking onto a web site. They have the mobility, the financial stability, and the vacation time to go do the 'courtship' thing.

Now - at their age - it's HIGHLY likely that since they have been singles for adult lives - they have been involved in a few step relationships. I know I was. And if you know something is not for you - then it's wise to not date someone in that situation. Because you KNOW it doesn't 'feel right' and it's a hill your willing to die on.

At this age group - it's HIGHLY likely that we've had a dud in the ability to manage his own life or finances department - and vice versa. Men have - at this age - experienced what I call the 'User'.

We all know who she is - because she 'ridicules' us Feminists. She expects that a man will take care of her. Her life, her trade off - but SMART MEN wise up and say - never this way pass again.


I'm getting there redqueen! :lmao:I promise I am! :lmao:

To your point - NOPE - a man is NOT entitled to a date ever.

And not made as a point - but as a counterpoint - NOPE a woman is not entitled to a date ever. Just like a woman is not entitled to a date because she is Beautiful! And talented! And any man would be honored to have you!

That is just as harmful - because I can tell any man or any woman who doubts that -

Every single day 'average Joes' who always have a job and have their financial house in order but don't have a full head of hair meet, like, fall in love with 38 year old 'Secretaries' with an extra 20 pounds on them. Every. Single. Day.

By the time we are in our late 30's - we - myself again having been single until the age of 39 - we have done the rounds with the 'Corporate Guy' and his Beemer and his Golf Days and figure out you know what? That's not working for me. Or - we've encountered the rootless existence man and we figure out - you know what? That's not working for me either.

So a steady job - that's not asking too much.

And that chubby, or nerdy, or balding guy - if he meets a nice woman, who is kind, and makes him FEEL fantastic - and she happens to be an 8, 9 or 10 to his 4, 5, or 6 - I'm not going to begrudge him that. If she just happens to be better looking than him - but makes him feel FANTASTIC - that's not asking too much.


I think - and I've had to knock a few chips off the shoulder of men I've helped K. Coach . . . There is faaaaaaaaaaar more chip on the "shoulderness" from single men that are 45 and bald and under 5 feet 6 inches than there is jobless men (granted - hers tended to be men with money in the bank - but it WAS a barrier for them). And there is a reason for that.

And there is faaaaaaar more of a chip on the shoulder for women (trying to connect with the men) who have gone the rounds of helping a guy pay child support, or keep the head over their roofs, or had to pay second fiddle to an ex wife and kids - that are resistant to the 'man without ambition'.

So yep - that's life! But the article you read? There's probably more to it than meets the eye. I've been approached to write articles for two of the different 'dating sites' and declined because I think their 5 paragraphs and less approach doesn't take the deep dive. They are never going to take the deep dive (and honestly - I've just stuck my big toe in the water) - to say hey -

I understand why a man would resent this - let me explain to him what's going on in her mind.

Or -

I understand why a previously married and/or woman who had kids would resent this - but let me explain what's going on in his mind.


So - Yep - it's life. Yep - we just have to accept some things - men and women both. But there are a LOT of broken hearts out there that have good reasons for the choices and options they do or do not take. The wise man/woman says - that didn't work before - I've done it 5 times. I'd like to show some sanity soooooo . . .


Now ageism towards woman - that's another topic in and of itself!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. i LOVE your post. i wanted to copy and paste so many points of yours
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 12:50 PM
Sep 2012

i gave up.

reality. i agree. i see the same thing. perfectly. i was lower 30's, but i totally get what you say. by the time hubby and i met, we well knew what we wanted and did not want. teh two of us matched. neither of us would have "matched" with another. our irritants do not bother the other, whereas with someone else, it would be a major turn off.

"as good as me"

love it.

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
13. Thanks
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 01:02 PM
Sep 2012

Or as baaaaaaaaaaad as me. I knew I needed someone who wouldn't flip out if I went topless on a beach in Europe.

He knew he needed someone who 'got' that he wasn't a 9-5 guy - and would not change for anyone.

We like to say - we are two imperfect people who are perfect for each other. And to me? My husband is the HOTTEST man on the planet- TO ME>

But a lot of woman DID pass him over because he's only 5 feet 9. He's losing his hair. He has had his nose broken. He has a chipped tooth. He doesn't have 10 degrees or 'pedigree'.

Me? I'm so happy all of those 'mean' women who wanted the Varsity Jock passed over my lovey! With the big juicy shoulders and green eyes.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
15. Awwwe I love this!!!
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 01:10 PM
Sep 2012
We like to say - we are two imperfect people who are perfect for each other. And to me? My husband is the HOTTEST man on the planet- TO ME>


My man and I are the same, imperfect but perfect for each other. Perfectly stated

And yes, there is no man sexier than mine (to me).


Me? I'm so happy all of those 'mean' women who wanted the Varsity Jock passed over my lovey!


Preach it!

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
14. Haha, wow! That is an awesome post!
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 01:06 PM
Sep 2012


I'm with MadrasT on 'dating'... bleh. I tried it once and it sucked. But serendipity worked just fine.

mzteris

(16,232 posts)
16. "women with children have a harder time getting dates?"
Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:32 PM
Sep 2012

Except with pedophiles. And not, that is not meant to be funny.

I gave up a while ago about trying to attract a man, date, mate, whatever (though I've had three husbands - they all pretty much sucked by the way) and - er - more than a few companions in my life. My last "friend" was um quite a bit younger and it was fun while it lasted, I just got bored with it all. Too much drama. He was really smart, and incredibly sexy, and - eh. He still keeps calling, but, well - been there. Done that. (though I won't rule out doing that again.

I don't really give a damn most days. SOMEtimes I kinda wish there was someone to do something with, but that passes fairly quickly. I have MY life. I don't answer to any man (but my boss, I suppose). I take care of my kids, tell my ex to f off, and do what the hell I want. I dress for comfort and to please myself. I hate to shop but like to look at least presentable. I don't care about "sexy" anymore, though I can pull it off - even at my age. (Men are weird... have I mentioned that lately?)

It is a part of life and it is very unfair. The world is run by straight anglo-saxon white patriarchal capitalist males who could give a shit about women, gays, minorities, or the poor. If you can't make them money, or make them look good and/or powerful, then what's the point of your existence?

I'm sick to f'ing death of it myself. I will say, I believe it IS better than it used to be. It may not seem that way, but it is. Sexual harassment in the workplace is lessened. Discrimination in hiring is lessened. Inequity in pay is shrinking. BUT - a whole lot of that is because of government intervention in the first place. I think, though, as younger people grow up with their parents going through these things, they expect that as a starting point and push for better.

Okay, I'm rambling and may have lost the whole point of the OP so I'll just shut up now.

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