The vilification of Mia Farrow on DU

[CTyankee]

The fury behind these attacks are deafening and sickening, all out attempts to blame the victim's mother of actions without a smidgeon of evidence, just wild speculation. I cannot understand how it is even being tolerated on this board. What has happened to our once progressive site? Is feminism such a threat to the purveyors of this diatribe that they have gone over the edge? It is truly frightening...

[cinnabonbon]

1. Not only that

they will claim they are the rational, neutral voice of reason while they do this. It's bizarre to watch.

[seabeyond]

5. we think the molestation of a child is very much a feminist issue. we also think the vilification

of a woman, regardless of fact, using it as an excuse to justify molestation of a child to be a feminist issue.

[seabeyond]

8. no. you are wrong. you came to a conclusion without knowledge or facts... lol

you did not even take the time to say, what are you talking about. just came to a conclusion with no knowledge or info adn shut down conversation. not gonna happen in hof. well.... hell, not gonna happen in gd either.

[seabeyond]

12. ok. we are going to disagree for numerous reasons. but, i do not think that matters, and

that is cool. differing views.....

[roguevalley]

94. actually, there is huge value to this mess. It shows a textbook case on how to slander your

way out of harming a child. Mia Farrow was slandered but it was never proven. It was enough for this little jerk to call her that for everyone to applaud.

Read this. It is the 1993 custody decision. It will tell you why its incredibly important to everyone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danny-shea/heres-the-1993-woody-alle_b_4746866.html

Read all 33 or so pages, not just the excerpts.

[BainsBane]

16. Hardly

You haven't examined the facts. There is a clear finding of fact from a judge. Inform yourself.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/205403621/Allen-v-Farrow-Custody-Ruling-June-7-1993

[BainsBane]

26. You don't know what you're takling about

On either the facts or the issues, so how would you offer help? Not only that, you've said you don't care abut the facts. The OP is about the vilification of Mia. The court record contains more than enough evidence to show that Woody Allen's allegations about Mia are entirely without merit.

Everyone knows they didn't prosecute Woody. Most molesters and rapists aren't prosecuted. Nothing new there. We're not going to wait for a legal conviction to decide it's worth discussing.

George Zimmerman wasn't convicted either. Does that make him reliable, or off the table for discussion? I think not.

[BainsBane]

15. How odd

If feminism doesn't deal with rape, child abuse and misogyny, what good is it?

[Cha]

97. I know, huh?

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. Frightening and so common...

The focus is always on the actions of the victim or her mother. "Why did she do this...and not this?" "A victim would have said this, disclosed that...worn something else and not that." The focus is never on the actions of the perpetrator. That is why rape is so prevalent. The rapists are given cover and the cover is embedded in our society--even in "progressive" circles.

[seabeyond]

4. defense of male privilege and entitlement at ALL cost. yes. further, there is absolute evidence

that media did exactly the opposite of what she is repeatedly being accused of. she took steps to reach out to soon yi. she kept the parental line open to allen, even after he decided it appropriate to cheat on her with her daughter. she had the kids in therapy and kept in contact with therapists. she brought allen into that. the judge very much made it clear that thought not perfect.... mia was the one connected with the children, looking out for their welfare.

there was an interesting OP in hof not long ago. gonna go look for it, for a link. about how society has created the conditioning for all of us women lie. men tell the truth. oh, and this would be centuries of men saying and creating this.

[CTyankee]

7. there is one truly repulsive one in the Men's Group.

Is this what the Men's Group was supposed to be for? Attacking women viciously? The whining is bad enough...

[seabeyond]

9. no. it is not what the two men that started up the group inspired to. they actively worked

at not being that. and things progressed to exactly this.

i do not know the thread. i do not go in that group often. i knwo the ones that are host for that group adn use the group are all over the molestation threads expressing exactly this. so, about the same. i n gd, or in the mens group

[CTyankee]

11. I'm sorry I went there. It is a cesspool IMO.

But they are elsewhere, too.

I think the admins should have long ago taken this thing in hand, seeing that the two men who started it did not have this intention. Maybe the adminis feel that the beast is out now and there is nothing, nothing I tell you, that we can do, our hands are tied, it is up to DU to self-correct, voice of the people and all that...

I am disgusted...

[seabeyond]

13. i really want that .... women are liars OP. going back hunting. nt

[MadrasT]

86. Only one?

[BainsBane]

14. It is disheartening

Particularly when they now have evidence through the court record that shows that entire story Woody spins about Mia is without foundation.

Ultimately these are issues of character rather than politics. Misogyny is not unique to members of only one political party.

As for why it's tolerated, only the administrators can answer that. I would assume that like the rest of us they were not familiar with all the facts in the case. That court finding that rouguevalley linked to really exposed far more than I imagined was possible. I had always assumed some of what Woody said was true, just because we have a tendency to want to find a middle compromise. Not so. He presented no evidence to the court of implanted memories or brainwashing. He only gave an incoherent rant about how awful Mia is. The judge was quite blunt in his assessment of Woody's character and made clear how rare it was to deny even supervised visitation but the situation warranted it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/205403621/Allen-v-Farrow-Custody-Ruling-June-7-1993

[CTyankee]

17. I wonder how that judge feels now...big mistake on his part...how goddamn tragic...

[BainsBane]

18. How is a mistake on the judge's part?

What do you mean?

[CTyankee]

19. well, I understand why he didn't want Dylan to suffer but this can't make him feel good...

He is seeing how this thing is playing out...it is so painful to read...

I do hear what you are saying, though, so I want you to know that...

[cinnabonbon]

31. When you say mistake

are you referring to the part where he chose not to prosecute him, in order to spare the child the extra trauma?

[CTyankee]

54. Yeah, I guess...what a terrible choice to make isn't it...

now I see on the news the judge has regrets...I haven't seen the entire story, we were having dinner and I"ve just finished and not had a chance to find out what he said today...

[Squinch]

71. I don't know. Allen was throwing all his money and all his

influence into the PR for this thing. He had enough people on his payroll to say whatever he wanted.

I hate that it comes to this, but the fact is that often a predator can get away with it even if there is a trial. And Allen's tactic at the time seemed to be to bring it right to the tabloids, and keep feeding them stories about Mia, and keep the child in the public eye. So if there was a trial, it would have been hell for that child for the rest of her life. There would have been no possibility of anonymity over this, which she largely found for the twenty years since it happened.

I'm not sure the judge made a bad decision. Or maybe more accurately, I think he took the better of two bad possibilities where the child was concerned.

[CTyankee]

73. the judge was in a bind, no doubt about it...

[seabeyond]

76. BUT...he did take care of the child. no custody for allen. no visitation, no supervised

visitation.

measure must be taken to protect dylan.

so though he was in a bad place, he figured out a solution to protect the girl. that is really the ultimate in important.

[cinnabonbon]

135. Yes, it is a terrible choice to make.

They essentially had to choose between justice or mercy, and they chose mercy for Dylan. The lawyers would have torn into her, with no regards to her fragile state or well-being had they tried to go for justice. No matter which one they chose, Dylan would have been hurt.

[Gothmog]

134. The opinion from the judge is very helpful

The judge is very strong in this opinion

[Gman]

20. Seems line it's pretty justified

after reading Woody's LTE. And the girl is only a victim of her mother.

[seabeyond]

21. what would be mias reasoning for brainwashing the girl?

[Gman]

23. Dunno. You'd have to ask her.

[seabeyond]

59. so, court documents says she did not do that. kids said she didnt. therapist said she didnt.

you have no reason for her to have done it.

but because a man, accused of molesting his daughter, used it as a reason he did not molest, you see THAT as fact?

[Gman]

117. Yup and you have to ask her

I think she's psycho

[CSStrowbridge]

29. Are you honestly asking that?

Are you honestly asking that? Are you asking why would Mia Farrow brainwash her kids into hating Woody Allen? If you don't know the answer to that, then you don't have enough information to participate in this debate.

[seabeyond]

57. yes. so tell me? her reason.

[pkdu]

106. As a father of two children , living with my ex , who has enough blind hatred of ME ...

To make her want to have zero contact with my kids , I can tell you from first hand experience , I know of at least one woman who would go down the path of at least threatening to a Judge that my daughter " didnt feel comfortable being alone with her Dad"

Deal with it. There are people in this world , men AND women , that will say and or do anything to get what they want , especially when what they want is to punish an Ex. ,even at the expense of the kids.

[seabeyond]

108. maybe you should "deal with it" being facts. even after mia foudn out her partner was fucking her

daughter, she made sure he continued to have access to the three adopted children of his. she encourage that connection knowing the bond a father had with a child. even when she was concerned that woody was not behaving appropriate with dylan, she did not cut him off. she told him he had to go to therapy and discussed with therapist, all working together to TEACH, fuckin teach woody how to be appropriate with dylan. that was a good couple years BEFORE she found out he was fucking her daughter.

she had a documented signed by woody that if they split, she would have custody of the children. that was not a concern of hers.

dylan accused woody of molestation. the doctor called woody to let him know about the molestation. BEFORE she called the cops. i believe a week.

woody THEN started a custody fight over the children.

woody started the custody fight

not mia

AFTER he was accused of molestation by dylan.

get your facts straight and .... deal with it.

[roguevalley]

95. go up and read the judges decision. Mia was slandered. Of course the little creep is going

to say otherwise. The record of court doesn't support your assertions. Its 33 pages of damnation for allen.

[boston bean]

99. oh, but that judge in that courtroom was biased.

Doncha see?

And the wheels keep spinning to make Allen look like a victim.

His latest denials come off as poor him, mia is a lying b*tch.... not much else there, except the same old "woman scorned" mantra, he can't seem to say enough in many different ways.

Allen is a disgusting pervert, a narcissistic creep, control freak, issue ridden scum bag, as far as I am concerned.

[Gman]

109. Don't matter

She's got a history of being psycho.

[seabeyond]

110. ah. so really, you are just throwing shit out, knowing it is shit slinging. gotcha. we will

stop wasting our time.

[JDPriestly]

22. I just don't know what to think about the accusations against Woody Allen by Mia Farrow

and her daughter. I wasn't there when the events happened.

But I do think it is extremely odd for a mother to name one of her children after the judge in her custody case.

Normally, when people get out of a family law or child protection court, they want to turn over a new leaf or in some bitter cases, get revenge. Either way, I have never heard of a person naming a child after the judge in a child custody case. That seems rather bizarre.

And as Woody Allen points out, if Mia Farrow argued in court that a child was Woody Allen's and asked Woody to pay alimony for that child then later admits or claims that the child was actually fathered by Frank Sinatra it is kind of hard to put much faith in what she says. If the child was Frank Sinatra's why didn't she sue him for the child support? If there was a doubt, why didn't she, at some point alert the judge to her doubt and ask for a paternity test. It still isn't too late for that, and Mia could certainly afford to repay the alimony to Woody Allen if he paid it under false pretenses.

Maybe I am approaching this too technically and examining the statements of unreliable sources to carefully, but something here is amiss. Maybe they are both lying. I don't know. I will never know. So I really can't take sides.

[BainsBane]

24. What are you talking about?

Allen sued for custody, not the other way around. There is a legal record to examine. http://www.scribd.com/doc/205403621/Allen-v-Farrow-Custody-Ruling-June-7-1993

It shows most of what Woody Allen claims is entirely without foundation.


As for the various side issues you brought up entirely unrelated to the abuse allegations, there is no evidence Rowan is not Woody's kid, other than Rowan is not ugly. Woody clearly thought the kid (then known as Satchel) was his because he tried to take custody of him away from Mia. He could demand a DNA test at any time. What does it tell you that he is trying to disown a son who he was part of, if even the most irresponsible manner, raising since he was a child? The man is a narcissist. You need to read the court case and stop taking the output of Woody Allen's publicity machine as fact.

[CSStrowbridge]

36. You need to read the actual investigator's report.

"You need to read the court case..."

You need to read the actual investigator's report. Why ignore firsthand information for secondhand conclusions?

[BainsBane]

82. Do you have a link to the state investigators report?

Court records are not second hand. They are the legal record and primary sources. You have no concept what a primary or secondary source is, do you?

Are you talking about the Yale Group or the expert that testified in family court? The judge made clear the Yale group report was not in accordance with professional standards. The fact they refused to testify or submit to cross examination shows that to be problematic.

[Madam Mossfern]

53. "other than Rowan is not ugly"

Sure, that statement makes your argument really credible and perhaps a bit racist?

[BainsBane]

85. What race is that? Pedohpiles?

You don't need to believe a thing I say. You only need read the judge's ruling.

[JDPriestly]

91. Who claimed that Rowan was not Woody's child? I thought it was Rowan and Mia.

At any rate, in the custody case, regardless of who filed it, Woody stated in his letter to the New York Times that he paid child support. If Mia got child support from Woody for Rowan, I believe she would have had to have claimed that Rowan was Woody' child, that is that Woody was the father of Rowan. Mia and Woody were apparently not married at the time. I can only repeat what I have read. A man is not financially responsible for a child merely because he had a relationship with the child's mother while the child was growing up. Same for a woman. Just because she has a relationship with the father of a child does not make her financially responsible for another woman's child. Not normally. There are exceptions such as when a man/woman adopts the child or establishes some other formal legal relationship with the child in which the man/woman accepts financial responsibility for the child.

I still say I wasn't there and don't know who is right. It may be that they both firmly believe that they are telling the truth. Just who is is difficult to say. Moses seems to take Woody's side while Rowan takes the side of his mother. I could not say who is most reliable.

[dflprincess]

87. I wonder how Sinatra's widow, Barbara, feels about the claim

she's still alive and apparently her feelings weren't something Mia considered when she decided to announce that Ol' Blue Eyes might be Ronan's father. It might be a tad painful to hear your late husband was still seeing his ex after he married you.

[el_bryanto]

27. The vigilance with which some people defend him

strikes me as odd. I can understand being uncomfortable because you are a fan of Woody Allen (as I am), but the defense seem to take a step past that. The need to attack Mia shouldn't be necessary.

I don't know, there does seem to be a subset at DU who just always want to believe men are innocent and women are guilty.

Bryant

[CSStrowbridge]

32. If Mia Farrow...

"The need to attack Mia shouldn't be necessary."

If Mia Farrow coached her daughter into making false molestation accusations against Woody Allen, and that's the conclusion of the only investigation into the matter, then she needs to be attacked.

What she did was horrible. What she did was as bad as what she accused Woody Allen of doing, maybe worse. If she convinced Dylan that she was molested and Dylan never recovers, then how is that different than if she actually molested Dylan herself?

[el_bryanto]

51. If that is what happened than you are right

But the evidence leans the other way.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

77. there is NO evidence mia did that. stated in court documents. the timeline of her taking care of

daughter thru therapist proves she did not. concerns for allens inappropriate behavior with dylan started years before this event. it is well documented that he went into therapy with dylan to learn how to appropriately interact with the girl. mia did not do all that. it is ALL on allens shoulders.

[roguevalley]

96. she didn't. read the report. then your 'ifs' will be unnecessary. she didn't do what you

suggest. the only horrible thing here is your remarks.

This is beyond the pale: "then how is that different than if she actually molested Dylan herself?"

you haven't read a thing have you.

[CSStrowbridge]

28. No evidence?

"...without a smidgeon of evidence, just wild speculation."

Are you joking? There's a ton of evidence to suggest she coached Dylan into making the accusations. That was the conclusion of the only investigation into the matter.

"Is feminism such a threat..."

I am a feminist.

[gaspee]

38. Oh, do tell

what evidence you speak of. Never mind. You'll just point to the crap put out by Woody Allen's PR machine and the report he paid for whose files all mysteriously disappeared.

[gaspee]

46. Blah blah blah blah blah

[CSStrowbridge]

50. One last note...

One last note. You know how you claimed Woody Allen paid for the investigation? Who told you that? Because in reality, it was an independent investigation, that included interviews with Woody Allen's therapist. That's how this lie about Woody Allen paying for the investigation started. Whoever told you he paid for the investigation lied to you.

[BainsBane]

114. The Yale New Haven team REFUSED to testify

The family court judge ruled their study did not conform with professional standards. They destroyed their notes. They didn't observe Dylan and Woody together before making recommendations. The judge's ruling makes clear that the state experts in CT determined the study could not be relied on. He spells all of that out in the document linked to throughout this thread.

The fact they would not testify is particularly problematic. They would not submit to cross examination. Between that and the highly irregular move of destroying notes, the judge believed it impossible to consider it reliable.

Now, I don't know of any solid evidence that Woody paid them off. Certainly it looks suspicious. We can't know, however.
Regardless, to continue to site it that study as evidence that Dylan was not abused when it was ruled unreliable by the court is misleading, at best.

You need to read the family court ruling and quit swallowing Woody's story, the vast majority of which is entirely without merit. Your continued evocation of facts rings hollow when you have assiduously avoided engaging with he official court record. It appears to me that you are not interested in facts at all. You are determined to repeat Woody's story, even thought it is was found unreliable by the court.

[BainsBane]

115. There were therapists Allen did pay for

thought they were not the Yale New Haven team. Schultz and the other doctor mentioned in the family court ruling. These were therapists the children were seeing at the time of the assault, but neither were experts in child abuse. However, Dylan did tell Schultz that Woody had molested her and did so outside of Mia's presence. Schultz first lied by saying that Dylan didn't say anything about being molested. A week later she must have thought better of it because she called NY Child Services to report the abuse, only AFTER first notifying Woody Allen. Again, that is all in the family court record.

[CTyankee]

60. thank you. geez...all I've seen is Woody's blather...that's "evidence"?

[roguevalley]

98. there isn't but since you believe there is, post it. seriously. facts please. ANd no, I am not

joking.

[baldguy]

30. "It is our expert opinion that Dylan was not sexually abused by Mr. Allen."

"Further, we believe that Dylan’s statements on videotape and her statements to us during our evaluation do not refer to actual events that occurred to her on August 4th, 1992... In developing our opinion we considered three hypotheses to explain Dylan’s statements. First, that Dylan’s statements were true and that Mr. Allen had sexually abused her; second, that Dylan’s statements were not true but were made up by an emotionally vulnerable child who was caught up in a disturbed family and who was responding to the stresses in the family; and third, that Dylan was coached or influenced by her mother, Ms. Farrow. While we can conclude that Dylan was not sexually abused, we can not be definite about whether the second formulation by itself or the third formulation by itself is true. We believe that it is more likely that a combination of these two formulations best explains Dylan’s allegations of sexual abuse."

- from the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic of the Yale-New Haven Hospital, working independently for the CT Prosecutors Office at the time & quoted in Woody Allen's statement

[cinnabonbon]

34. Maybe you could help me by refreshing my memory

How many of the specialists met with Dylan and spoke with her?

[CSStrowbridge]

35. Thank you.

Thank you. And I would like to point out, this investigation was the ONLY investigation into the matter. It lasted months. Saying the judge who dealt with the child custody case is more reliable that the actual investigators is crazy.

It's like disregarding the coroner's testimony at the Zimmerman trial and concluding Trayvon must have been on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, because that's what the jury said happened.

[gaspee]

37. You are either

Misinformed or lying. I hope misinformed.

[CSStrowbridge]

40. Well...

Well, if you had any evidence to back up your claim, you would have given it. Since you didn't even try to give evidence, it suggests you don't care about evidence.

On the other hand, "my side" has given evidence. For instance, the only investigation into allegations concluded Dylan either lied or was coached. What has "you side" given? A judge who didn't conduct an investigation believed Mia Farrow's lawyer more than Woody Allen's lawyer.

[gaspee]

41. Why

Would I even bother with you?

Seriously. You are beneath my contempt.

[seabeyond]

62. why did they burn the notes? why did they refuse to go on the stand? nt

[BainsBane]

39. Clearly you didn't read about the Yale New haven team in the court ruling

They refused to testify in court. Their examination was not done in accordance with professional standards. They never observed Dylan and Woody together. They destroyed their notes, making it impossible for the judge to determine how they have arrived upon their assessment. In refusing to testify, they made clear they would not constitute evidence in the case.


Additionally, you claimed to believe Moses. The court makes clear who was there on the day of the alleged assault. Moses was not among them. There was a witness who says Dylan return from being alone with woody (even though there was as standing court order that Woody was not allowed to be alone with any of the children) with no underwear on. She was a baby sitter of another family. She later told her boss, who told Mia, who then asked Dylan what had happened. Dylan told her, and later told the same story to her family physician and to a therapist hired by Woody, Schultz. In the last case, Mia was not even present when Dylan told Schultz. Schultz lied about the fact Dylan had said she was abused, sat on the information for a week, and then finally called Woody before reporting the abuse to NY child services.

Moses presents an entirely different picture in the court record than he does today. The linked decision, a finding of fact, includes a letter from Moses in which he says how angry he is at his father, that everyone knows not to have sex with their children's sister, and that he had "crushed my dreams."

Additionally, Woody presented no evidence to the court that Mia had implanted memories or brainwashed her. The court record shows that all of Woody's allegations abut Mia were entirely unfounded. The only basis for the brainwashing defense was an utterance Mia made after learning what happened to Dylan when he expressed hope that it might be a fantasy. She did not want for her daughter to have been molested by her father.

Read the legal document, if you really care about the facts of the case. http://www.scribd.com/doc/205403621/Allen-v-Farrow-Custody-Ruling-June-7-1993

[gaspee]

43. I wouldn't even bother

To respond to this poster. The information you just posted has been available for some time now, yet they choose to ignore it.

There is no discussion with someone like that.

[CSStrowbridge]

49. Bullshit

"They refused to testify in court."

Bullshit. Dr. John M. Leventhal did sumbit as swore statement. No one asked the rest of the team to testify. You can't refuse to do something no one asked you do to.

"There was a witness who says Dylan return from being alone with woody (even though there was as standing court order that Woody was not allowed to be alone with any of the children) with no underwear"

A nanny quit because Mia Farrow was pressuring her to tell the same thing.

"...and later told the same story to her family physician..."

In a 1993 interview, Mia Farrow said Dylan told the physician Woody Allen touched her on the shoulder. Four days later, and an edited video tape later, Dylan make the accusations of molestation.

"Moses presents an entirely different picture in the court record than he does today."

And he claims Mia Farrow brainwashed the kids into hating Woody Allen. If your evidence is, "While he was under the influence of Mia Farrow, he attacked Woody Allen, but now that he's not, he says something else." then that evidence supports my side of the argument.

"Additionally, Woody presented no evidence to the court that Mia had implanted memories or brainwashed her."

What about the report?

[seabeyond]

66. judge asked and he was demied. in his court document

[BainsBane]

133. It is not bullshit that they refused to testify

The judge said as much. One doctor submitted a statement but refused to submit for cross examination. There was no way for the judge to gauge the truthfulness, methods, or reliabilty of their statement. That coupled with the fact they destroyed their notes, a highly irregular move, and failed to follow professional guidelines in other ways led the judge to rule it non-credible.

Moses may claim that now, but there was no evidence presented in the custody case for that. None.
The judge said there was no evidence of brainwashing. The judged ruled the New Haven team's report uncredible for a host of reasons he makes very clear, which you would know if you bothered to read the legal ruling.

Dylan's story was consistent, not only from 1992 to the present but also to the various authorities she told her account to after it occured: those include a family doctor, the therapist hired by Woody Allen, and the state therapist appointed by the family court. She also told Mia.

[roguevalley]

100. read the judges report. Yale is discredited.

[gaspee]

33. Some of the worst perpetrators

Of the lies and misinformation are now shoveling their shit in this group. Wonderful.

[baldguy]

44. Beginning with the OP.

[gaspee]

47. Why are you posting in this group

Seriously. Why.

[baldguy]

48. I didn't know certain groups were restricted to "special" people.

I'm just responding to the insipid & insidious spread of bullshit.

[seabeyond]

65. getting info from court document as opposed to allens story?

[gaspee]

79. I think you have me confused with someone else

Allen is a lying molesting perv and I get my information from the court documents.

[seabeyond]

81. absolutely i do. i was speaking to baldguy. thank you. nt

[TransitJohn]

42. I can't believe people are wasting DU to talk about celebrity shit. eom

n/t
Edit: just saw this is in a Group. I clicked from the trending now section of the front page. Assumed it was in GD. Not trying to stir up angst.

[Madam Mossfern]

58. Yeah

same thing for me.
Assumed it was in GD.

[roguevalley]

101. this isn't about celebrity shit. this is the way a perp slanders someone and walks.

[Madam Mossfern]

107. Your referring to him as a perp

leads me to believe you are making assumptions that have not been proven.

I say this as a rape survivor who's attacker was not brought to justice. It's all about celebrity.

[cinnabonbon]

116. I think she was speaking in general

since she said "a perp" instead of "the perp". I am interpreting her response as she was talking about rape culture and the unfortunate way our society lets attackers get the benefit of the doubt - and then turn around and attack the victim for speaking out. Especially so if the alleged attacker comes from a privileged class.

I'm really sorry that happened to you, and I hope you have managed to find some healing in your life.

[Madam Mossfern]

118. I guess that could be so

My take on this is that those who falsely accuse innocent people of sexual abuse make it all that more difficult for those who are abused to be believed. This is not an issue that should put those of different genders at odds with each other.

As far as the Allen/Farrow issue; I have no opinion. What makes this any more special than those who are struggling with this who don't have the advantage of celebrity? As far as I see it, it's become a three ring circus.

Thank you for your thoughts, I have since married and raised four great kids. I still suffer from PTSD, but that just makes me a more interesting person.

I'm a survivor, not a victim. Yes, the police tried to make me culpable even though it was a stranger who broke into my apartment. They mused whether the curtains I had on my windows were thick enough.....

Really!

[seabeyond]

119. wow. and that says it all.

"They mused whether the curtains I had on my windows were thick enough..... "

[Madam Mossfern]

120. It was way back in the 1970's

I'm assuming that things have gotten better since.

[seabeyond]

122. in montana a 14 yr old girl was raped by a grown man in his 40's. she ended up committing suicide.

the man was found guilty of the rape and given 30 day, because she was more sexually advanced than her age, per the judge.

so no. it has not gotten better. steubenville they had a video and the town, sheriff and prosecutor rallied behind the football player rapists. in missouri, with the rape of a 14 yr old, left out on the front lawn in freezing weather all night, they ran the family out of town and burned the house down, protecting their boys. in calif a coach got a teen drunk to unconscious, raped her and got a year. and two cases in alabama, one a 14 yr old raped by neighbor, though guilty and he admitted it, got no time.

[cinnabonbon]

121. False allegations hurt everyone

because it ruins the trust we need to believe people when they speak up about crimes done to them. Luckily, statistically speaking, there are very few false allegations compared to the real ones. And I do mean VERY few. If I gambled, I would bet on survivors telling the truth a lot of the time, because it's so statistically probable.

I'm glad that you've gotten a good life! That is what counts. It makes me really angry that they didn't listen to you, though. I hope that your PTSD doesn't get in the way too much. I hear that it's a common among rape victims. Not that it makes it any better, but at least you're not alone.

What makes this any more special than those who are struggling with this who don't have the advantage of celebrity? As far as I see it, it's become a three ring circus.

I don't see it as being special? Whether her father is a celebrity or not is not my concern here. This case is sadly enough, not very unique. We've discussed child abuse and rape culture here before, and I think several of the posters see this as an example of rape culture. They would discuss it just as passionately if it happened to a non-celebrity, because it's not the celebrity-status that counts, here. It's the fact that it's a symptom of a sick society that devalues a lot of people that is important.

They mused whether the curtains I had on my windows were thick enough.....

Oh my god, some people can be so stupid! I hate that you can't go to the police and be expected to be believed when you report this. And it sucks that they tried to pin some of the blame on you and the curtains. I mean, that is so...

[WinkyDink]

52. I like how some believe Moses and Woody without question.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

55. Thanks for starting this thread. I didn't know about attacks as I don't read most posts.

I think it's worth remembering and reviewing some of Allen's past movies and proclamations. Even in "Bananas" he's had some rather telling thoughts. "Hannah and Her Sisters" most definitely shows a rather prurient side to this flawed person. His attacks on the mother however, are beyond the pale.

Not to mention, he lied in his recent response as though he wouldn't be fact-checked. A downright Christie like action.

1. "There is no credible evidence to support Mr. Allen's contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan."

2. The Yale New Haven study report is "sanitized and, therefore, less credible" owing to a variety of factors.

3. Mia Farrow was "not faultless as a parent," but, "ironically," her "principal shortcoming with respect to responsible parenting appears to have been her continued relationship with Mr. Allen."

4. Allen's "self-absorption" and "lack of judgment and his commitment to the continuation of his divisive assault...warrant a careful monitoring of his future contact with the children."

5. Ultimately, "we will probably never know what occurred on August 4, 1992...[but] Mr. Allen's behavior toward Dylan was grossly inappropriate and...measures must be taken to protect her."

more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danny-shea/heres-the-1993-woody-alle_b_4746866.html

[thesquanderer]

56. I haven't noticed more vilification of Mia here than I've seen of Woody (n/t)

[CTyankee]

64. It has been in some places, but not in HoF...

[seabeyond]

67. mia didnt molest a child. woody did. why would there not be more.... vilification of woody.

[thesquanderer]

78. It's impossible for any of us to know with certainty.

Like religion, anyone is free to believe what seems right to them. But once someone starts telling me they are know something for certain which is fundamentally unknowable, they lose me. Regardless of whether they're on the right or the left.

I've read her statements, I've read his. I don't know for sure. But luckily for me, whether or not I know for sure has no impact on my life.

[seabeyond]

83. not only did the judge read it all, and listening to both speak, read the experts, police and

therapist, listen to the witnesses, he stated allen was GROSSLY inappropriate with dylan and measure had to be taken to protect her.

NO custody
NO visitation
NO supervised visitation.

courts rarely pass down that judgement especially to a rich and famous man.

so..... dylan had her day in court and the judge felt the need to protect.

[thesquanderer]

88. Read this and see if you still think it's black and white

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/woody-allen-speaks-out.html?hp&rref=opinion

Everything is black and white until you hear both sides. He even addresses the report you reference. You may not believe him, but it's not black and white.

[seabeyond]

89. then i guess you need to read dylans response to his last word.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dylan-farrow-responds-woody-allen-678552

[thesquanderer]

90. Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it

but still, as powerful as it is, I will not succumb to judging based on who gets to speak last. It's still a he-said-she-said, and regardless of who anyone finds more credible, I still don't believe there is enough for anyone to be certain enough to say there's absolutely no doubt.

[davidpdx]

61. I'll probably regret doing this...

Let me start by saying I've never seen a Woody Allen movie and am not a fan.

With regard to Dylan's claim I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

The one thing that bothers me a bit is some of the things said about Woody Allen that aren't true, which have been repeated on DU. For instance that Soon-Yi was his daughter (not true) and that she was underage (not true, she was in her 20's).

I have no problem with the argument on whether he molested Dylan, I just think people should be honest about the facts.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/27/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast.html

[CTyankee]

63. I haven't seen that among those here.

I haven't seen anyone here believe that Soon Yi was underage nor that she was HIS daughter. When he started having sex with her she was 19 and he was in his 50s and still in a relationship with her mother and "in loco parentis." Maybe that doesn't resonate with you but it sure does with many of us here.

Please, no faux arguments...they are not being discussed here...

[davidpdx]

69. I have seen someone say it

I have no doubt the relationship is creepy. Yes, Allen was in a relationship with Farrow. Allen had no legal rights as Soon Yi's parent.

What I'm saying is the water seems to get muddied with people repeating things that aren't true. At the very least I believe the argument that Soon Yi was his daughter is a misnomer.

Again as to the accusations made by Dylan, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

I'll leave it at that.

[Gravitycollapse]

72. I've seen several people say exactly what was claimed. It's not a faux argument.

There are a not of untrue things being said about Woody Allen and Soon Yi. Just as there are a lot of untrue things being said about Mia and Dylan Farrow.

[CTyankee]

74. I don't think feminists were saying it, tho. I haven't seen it...

[Gravitycollapse]

75. Are you going to be the arbitrator for who is and who is not a feminist?

Let me guess, the ones making untrue statements about Allen aren't feminists.

[seabeyond]

80. people who are not informed have said it. and after a correction i have not seen any of those

people hold onto the fact that he is the father of the girl, or married. i know people have mistakenly said it and been corrected.

unlike the non truths on mia and dylan, the are a concerted effort to make guess work, fact.

now.... i will argue, being in a relationship with a woman for over a decade,w ith the oldest (soon yi) at ten, going on family vacations to europe, staying at the summer home in connecticut adn being father of three of the children does create a family unit, whether he ignored the other children or not. two adults, heading a household of young children. the two adults have authoritive positions. it is that simple. and it is a family unit. regardless.

[Gravitycollapse]

84. There's a concerted effort to make guesswork fact on both sides.

I'm not naive enough to think otherwise. I have seen a considerable number of people state total falsehoods about Woody Allen and claimed them as fact. Just as I've seen the same thing done about Mia Farrow.

My point here, however, is to question the argument that no feminists were making such false claims. That's a ridiculous thing to say. It presupposes that anyone who makes such false claims aren't feminists. As if feminists are somehow incapable of making false claims.

[boston bean]

92. Oh, get over yourself, will ya!?

[Gravitycollapse]

93. In what way am I not over myself?

[seabeyond]

68. cant help that all do not have those facts straight. it depends how much one is informed.

regardless, screwing your partners daughter, even of age is pretty damn messed up. she was sister to sisters and brothers. allen should have understood how screwed up that was.

but that is an aside and really has nothing to do with the molestation.

[davidpdx]

70. I agree with you on both accounts

[roguevalley]

102. given that he's been in therapy for what? FIFTY YEARS!? I think he needs a refund.

[seabeyond]

103. what would a person have to talk about for 50 yrs, lol. lordy. really,

just think about goign to a therapist for 5 decades. amazing.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

105. Just think about listening to it for 50 years.

[seabeyond]

111. i know... lol. i did. then i thought, nah, he has to change out every couple years.

but ya, if it is the same only, well hell, htey probably retired out all patients but him and can live the easy life.

funny

[roguevalley]

112. I know. He goes several times a week I remember once when 60 minutes did

a story on him.

[Gravitycollapse]

113. A lot of people do that.

Many find it necessary to see a therapist continuously for extended or indefinite periods of time.

It's actually quite nice to be able to discuss and formulate your life with the aid of an intelligent, understanding, caring individual.

[maggies farm]

104. Once I was falsely accused of some form of sexual inappropriateness

Is it alright to like neither Mia nor Woody? I feel for Dylan as her parents are both very dysfunctional by my outward observation, but that is likely to mean Dylan is dysfunctional as well. I do not have an intimate friendship with either to pass further judgement.

I empathize with all survivors of sexual abuse.

This issue has raised a lot of pain for plenty of people. People that have been abused, and people who have been falsely accused.


But my pain is once I was falsely accused of some form of sexual inappropriateness. As a child I was falsely accused of molesting my best friends niece.

I was playing with my friend at his house when his mom came in and sternly said, "XXXX" why did you do this to "XXX"? In shocked astonishment I said, "what?" She said, you molested "XXX". I replied that I had absolutely nothing to do with "XXX" and that whatever happened (or not) was not me!

At the time she was 6 and I was around 11 or 12.

I recall going home distraught and in tears, and my sister inquired and I told her of these accusations.

Many years later... at a teenager keg party I was confronted in a group by "XXX"s boyfriend. he said, "XXXX" why did you do such a despicable thing?" I looked the girl right in the eye and said, "XXX" I don't know what happened to you, but it was not me and please stop spreading falsehoods."

Maybe she had been molested by a close relative and felt that she needed to say something while still providing cover to another. Maybe she had a false memory, or maybe she was outright lying.

Maybe this happened as Dylan described. But I can say that in my story a 6 year old told a lie about me, and ten or so years later she continued with a false accusation, and perhaps to this day she is convinced I did something that I never did.

[gopiscrap]

123. Welcome to DU

[In_The_Wind]

131. I'm really sorry that happened to you, maggies farm.

Welcome to DU.

[Z_I_Peevey]

124. Some excellent analysis here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymiller/2014/02/08/a-thorough-analysis-of-woody-allens-letter-in-the-nytimes/

[seabeyond]

125. 2000 words trying to make Mia Farrow sound like a crazy bitch, presenting incomplete and false info

Allen spends 2000 words trying to make Mia Farrow sound like a crazy bitch, presenting incomplete and false information, and showing disrespect to his children, especially Dylan.

TWENTY-ONE years ago, when I first heard Mia Farrow had accused me of child molestation, I found the idea so ludicrous I didn’t give it a second thought.

In the first sentence there are two things that are a bit disturbing. The first is that Mia Farrow never accused him of child molestation, Dylan Farrow did. Mia did not even go to the police with it, she went to a pediatrician, who by law was required to contact the police. Allen is immediately turning this into a narrative of how Mia Farrow is out to get him, rather than a narrative about Dylan Farrow, who should be the focus of his response. The second thing that bothers me is that he was accused of molestation by a child he was already in therapy for inappropriate behavior towards and who he was not allowed to see alone. If I was a person wrongly accused of sexual abuse of a child, especially one where there was already damning evidence around me, I would FREAK OUT, but certainly I would give it a second thought. That he didn’t give it a second thought and that he is comfortable beginning his defense narrative with the fact that he didn’t give it a second thought says to me that he somehow thinks this sort of accusation is not abnormal and a blasé response is perfectly acceptable and normal.

We were involved in a terribly acrimonious breakup, with great enmity between us and a custody battle slowly gathering energy.

We’ve made it to the second sentence, where he continues to present misinformation and attempts to paint Mia Farrow as a stereotypical vindictive woman scorned. They were involved in an acrimonious breakup, because he’d cheated on her with her daughter, the sister of his children. But there was no custody battle until after the police were alerted to Dylan’s claims. He filed suit for custody BECAUSE Dylan made a sexual abuse claim against him — until then, he’d agreed not to even try to get custody. The suit was ruled to be frivolous and he was forced to pay all of Mia Farrow’s legal fees. In my opinion, he filed for custody to cast doubt upon Mia Farrow’s role as a mother to divert attention away from Dylan’s claims.

*

The police began their investigation; a possible indictment hung in the balance. I very willingly took a lie-detector test and of course passed because I had nothing to hide. I asked Mia to take one and she wouldn’t.

The police asked Allen to take a polygraph and he refused — he took it for his own attorneys. The Connecticut State Police refused to accept it as evidence. Likewise, Mia Farrow was not asked by police to take a polygraph, only by Allen for his attorneys. Of course she refused to take a test administered by people working for him. Furthermore, polygraphs are notoriously unreliable.

*

Meanwhile the Connecticut police turned for help to a special investigative unit they relied on in such cases, the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic of the Yale-New Haven Hospital. This group of impartial, experienced men and women whom the district attorney looked to for guidance as to whether to prosecute, spent months doing a meticulous investigation, interviewing everyone concerned, and checking every piece of evidence. Finally they wrote their conclusion which I quote here: “It is our expert opinion that Dylan was not sexually abused by Mr. Allen. Further, we believe that Dylan’s statements on videotape and her statements to us during our evaluation do not refer to actual events that occurred to her on August 4th, 1992… In developing our opinion we considered three hypotheses to explain Dylan’s statements. First, that Dylan’s statements were true and that Mr. Allen had sexually abused her; second, that Dylan’s statements were not true but were made up by an emotionally vulnerable child who was caught up in a disturbed family and who was responding to the stresses in the family; and third, that Dylan was coached or influenced by her mother, Ms. Farrow. While we can conclude that Dylan was not sexually abused, we can not be definite about whether the second formulation by itself or the third formulation by itself is true. We believe that it is more likely that a combination of these two formulations best explains Dylan’s allegations of sexual abuse.”
Could it be any clearer? Mr. Allen did not abuse Dylan; most likely a vulnerable, stressed-out 7-year-old was coached by Mia Farrow. This conclusion disappointed a number of people. The district attorney was champing at the bit to prosecute a celebrity case, and Justice Elliott Wilk, the custody judge, wrote a very irresponsible opinion saying when it came to the molestation, “we will probably never know what occurred.”
But we did know because it had been determined and there was no equivocation about the fact that no abuse had taken place.

The investigators did a job that was so terrible that current child abuse experts decry it as a terrible injustice to Dylan and the custody judge dismissed it as not credible because they’d destroyed their notes and refused to testify. That Allen’s only source is something that even the doctor of the report now agrees was a bad job says a lot about the quality of his argument.

[Z_I_Peevey]

127. Two embedded links in the essay point to statement analyses of both Dylan Farrow's and

Woody Allen's open letters.

Here's a brief article about what "statement analysis" is:

http://www.legalproductivity.com/practice-management/statement-analysis-an-interesting-discovery-tool-for-lawyers/

At the least, more food for thought.

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2014/02/statement-analysis-woody-allens.html?m=1

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2014/02/statement-analysis-woody-allen-denial.html?m=1

[seabeyond]

129. i will get on that a little later. gotta give up puter for a while. nt

[CTyankee]

126. Wow, what a piece that is! VERY powerful. It DESTROYS Allen...

Quite insightful! Thanks for posting!

[seabeyond]

128. so much more i could have copied and pasted. the attic part was really interesting.

Where’s his public letter reaching out to his children? Where’s his apology for destroying their family? None of that exists, because nothing is important to Woody Allen except Woody Allen.[/div
]

thanks

[redqueen]

132. Thanks for that. There is no way any reasonable person can continue to peddle false balance,

or any 'he said she said' narratives and expect to be taken seriously.

All that demonstrates is that they are, at best, ignorant about the details of the situation.

[Starry Messenger]

137. Thanks for that.

The court document in *his* custody suit (that he initiated a week after he was informed he was under investigation for molestation--Mia never sued for custody, but she won this cruel suit and had all of her court expenses paid by Woody by decision of the judge...).

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/10/inside-the-shocking-custody-case-court-documents-that-shed-light-on-the-dylan-farrow-woody-allen-saga.html

People should read this. Not only was Woody stripped of visitation rights, but this document outlines many other cruel and abusive things he did to the children. The judge is on-point in itemizing Allen's total unfitness to be a father, and the sick way he isolated Soon-Yi without any regard to how her siblings would feel having him fuck their sister, their mother's daughter.

Among other things, Allen pushed Dylan's face into a plate of hot spaghetti after she accidentally caught him having sex with Soon-Yi at his apartment. Father of the Year. Even if the molestation had never emerged, he was a total and utter shit to those children.

[kestrel91316]

130. I love Mia Farrow. I believe Dylan Farrow. I totally believe that Woody Allen is basically an

unrepentant pedophile and child rapist.

[Nye Bevan]

136. Reminds me a lot of the attacks on Anita Hill.

Remember "a little nutty and a little slutty"?

[seabeyond]

138. yes. that anita hill situation was a huge eye opener to me,

seriously.... (i cannot remember how old i was) but the first time i really saw the ugly in how women were treated. and people pretended it was not happening.