Heard today: It's women's fault.

[MadrasT]

In a conversation about the insane abortion laws being passed in Michigan, VA, PA, Arizona, I heard the following remark: "I hope this makes women get off their butts and get more politically active."

I was flabbergasted. I said, "Wait, what? This is WOMEN'S fault? How about EVERYONE get off their butts? Protection of, and furthering of, women's rights is SOCIETY'S problem, not "women's" problem. How about you men get off your butts and HELP US?"

Silence.

Then, "You're right."

But how does anybody even say that to begin with?



I cannot believe I am having conversations like this in 2012.

[seabeyond]

1. i believe

i tend to direct ti to the young women that are allowing this to happen, also. my bad.

thanks for the reminder. cant justify. but i do. pisses me off they dont get it. thinking more of my nieces and those gals i know personally. not as a whole.

[MadrasT]

2. I am sensitive right now and suddenly hyperaware of how the patriarchy works.

But to me, it sounded akin to blaming slaves for their own enslavement.

Came across as "blame the victim" talk to me, y'know?

[seabeyond]

3. it doesnt help when our young women are not mobilizing cross the nation.

i go on the theory that sometimes we have to have loss before we realize the loss.

[Lionessa]

6. You're analogy is off a bit. Not like slaves, but like Jim Crow.

And honestly if no persons of color had joined into the protestations, riots, and discontent that forced a better (though still not full) equality for them, do you really think changes would have occurred?

[MadrasT]

15. Perhaps. I'm not the best analogy-maker.

I didn't say women don't bear any responsibility. Nor did I say that women should sit on their butts and wait for men to fix this for us.

My point was it is the responsibility of everyone who claims to be progressive/liberal. Women and men.

That's all.

The tone of the statement was, "Well, you stupid women sat on your asses and let this happen."

That doesn't fly with me.

[Tumbulu]

23. I'm with you- I see this current group of 20-40 yr olds

as dropping the ball. And not only dropping the ball, but sort of blaming my generation for being too....I don't know....too serious? Strident? as though we imagined patriarchy and that it has all dissolved away....

In fact I saw the whole weird takeover of the original feminist group as a manifestation of how I perceive that age group resents us and what we did.

I do feel often that the younger women who take getting credit cards on their own and being able to own houses do not realize how unusual this really is in the world.

I remember while in West Africa women (and the men there as well) COULD NOT BELIEVE that I could drive a vehicle.

Anyway, I get where you are coming from and appreciate the other voices in this group as I think that this simply reflects my own reactionary nature, which I am working on taming a bit.

[Life Long Dem]

4. It's Obama's fault when he doesn't get the word out

So I don't see the difference. Sorry. .

[seabeyond]

7. hmmmm, i havent heard. is that the new meme? to bad

i feel we actually have a responsibility to become informed. had this very conversation with sons at the dinner table last night.

[Life Long Dem]

11. Always is

Just today

For some reason, however, neither the press nor Mr. Obama’s political team has done a very good job of exposing the con.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002792752

[seabeyond]

17. i do think the media is a big part of the problem. nt

[Lionessa]

5. I think (s)he's right.

Yes, everyone should, but in the end it is women who are directly affected and therefore should be making a huge showing over this crap, but even here in AZ where now one is legally pregnant on the last day of her last period (which is of course scientifically impossible) and that doctors can lie to women about their health and pregnancy, the "protest" took place a month or two AFTER they were signed into law and only a relative handful of women showed up.

Like it or not, that surely gives the impression women don't care if their rights are taken away. It is our bodies we are talking about, and as such it is ultimately OUR responsibility to raise the uproar required and we aren't.

[seabeyond]

9. I'm moving to Arizona!!!!

i hear ya.

[Lionessa]

10. Sooner or later, if I stay, I'm going to have to file for food stamps,

So if I put I'm pregnant on that, and have been pregnant since late 1991, you think they'd file fraud charges?

[seabeyond]

12. lol.. nt

[Lionessa]

13. Actually I think I'm serious. Wouldn't that be the quickest and most right-wing supported way

to find that law unconstitutional? So file, get food stamps, then turn myself in for fraud. The wingers will be pissed I'd be getting extra welfare, (hell I could even claim medical care welfare, I think), so they'd support rescinding the law. Money trumps with them in the end.

[seabeyond]

14. my cousin is a lawyer, living in phoenix. i can give her a call when you need one.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Unfortunately

Although this can in no way be construed as "women's fault" I've met far to many women who let certain aspects of religion justify this reversal of human rights. They apparently don't realize they are saying they have less worth as a human being than as a brood mare.

The good news is I work with a number of single young women who wouldn't consider dating someone who is anti-choice. They ARE politically active as well, if only going to the voting booth. I live in the northwest, where it hasn't gotten too crazy--yet.

One woman I know has several frozen fetuses after IVF and a successful birth. These aren't 'babies' to her. The one she chooses to carry to term-she's considering another child-will be.

It's a con job, a political -what's under which cup-with women's very lives at stake.

People say stuff like that I think to slough off their own responsibility, as you say.

Crazy crazy crazy.

[MadrasT]

16. "People say stuff like that I think to slough off their own responsibility"

Exactly how it came across to me. (A man said it to me. A self proclaimed "progressive" man.)

[CrispyQ]

18. Some of the problem stems from our hyper-individualistic culture.

We don't think in terms of community, therefore it doesn't occur to most that society is partly responsible for the successes & failures of individuals. We glorify the individual while overlooking the importance of a solid community framework, which individuals need to excel.

I believe the Reagan years were a terrible regression to the wild-west-cowboy mentality, not to mention a whole lotta other things!

[MadrasT]

19. I agree, CrispyQ. /nt

[ismnotwasm]

20. Oh yes

I cut political teeth in the Reagan years and I don't believe we could possibly overestimate the damage that horrible man lent his name to.

[seabeyond]

21. i think that is so true. i was way too young, well.... not way, but

too young to really appreciate what he was doing. but, on reflection and thinking of how things were, and how they were redirected at that time to me me me, i agree.

[CrispyQ]

22. JFK, MLK, RFK - the prelude to the end of FDR's New Deal.

I have no words for these losses.

Sometimes I wonder if that is why Democratic party leadership are so weak. ? Or did they simply capitulate to the money? Of the seven deadly sins, greed seems to reign in our time.