Is chivalry* always sexist?

[Violet_Crumble]

*I'm callling it chivalry coz I can't think for a better word for men holding open doors for women or letting them out of lifts first etc....

Do you think it's sexist when men hold open a door for a woman or anything along those lines? I don't find it offensive, but think we live in a society where people hold doors open for others regardless of their gender. On the local website I haunt, there was a discussion of the expectation that if a bus is full, seats should be given up to the elderly, injured, and pregnant women, and that it should be children who give up their seats first (they don't pay full fare), and then adults and it doesn't matter if they're men or women...

Most people seemed to agree with that, but there were a few men insisting that they'd give up their seat to a woman who's standing up, there were a few people telling them not to do it coz they'll cop a mouthful of abuse for being sexist, but most people seemed to go with the thing I described above that doesn't have anything to do with gender. That was right until one bloke said that women chose to be pregnant, and he had more of a right to sit down than a pregnant woman did. It was a pretty nasty and revolting argument and he was definitately a misogynist, while I didn't get that vibe at all from the ones who were into chivalry...

[spin]

1. Sometimes you have to consider the age of the man ...

For example, I am 66. In my youth it was common for men to hold doors open for a woman or to open their car door.

Old habits don't die easily. That doesn't mean that I am a male chauvinist. I merely consider such actions polite. Once or twice a woman has acted in an angry manner to my courtesy and I always apologize.

[DetlefK]

2. It sure is witnessed from early age:

Last week, I rushed past a mother with two small boys (2 and 4?) in a hallway. I was really in a hurry, so I just wanted to get out of the building. Just as I walked through the door, I heard one of the boys complaining:
"Mommy! That man didn't hold the door open for you!"
She tried to calm him down:
"That's because I was too far behind him."

[seabeyond]

3. that is interesting that you heard the moms reply

i liked what she said. she had probably been teaching her boys, lol. and i can so see me with that. but, i like what she said. balance and positive. good stuff for a parent to give children. see the better.

[ManyShadesOf]

4. The custom can seem awkward

if it's more about gender roles than what is going on at the moment. Plenty of people nowadays, not trained at all in this habit, will go thru a door, never look back, drop the door on whoever might be there. Don't know how fare payment is a test for kids -- they're not worth as much?

Doesn't it come down to able bodied or otherwise, loaded with packages/kids or not, etc. in offering to give up a space?

[hlthe2b]

10. I remember a 3 month ordeal on crutches--and all the doors slammed in my face were almost always

on the part of men--just being clueless and not looking back at all.

So, while the gender-specific custom might be rather dated and a bit sexist, I'd never think badly of someone of either gender taking the time to hold a door for me. And, if a man was raised to do so for a woman, this would not even give me pause. Expect it? No, of course not, but I just think it a nice courtesy that should be extended regardless of gender. And, I am damned sure those who were conditioned into thinking it necessary to do for a woman, would likewise be unlikely to slam a door in the face of an elderly man or one on crutches, either. Manners can be adaptable, after all.

[seabeyond]

11. i dont know how much the parent is teaching the old rules to boys, BUT it seems the parent

that takes the time to teach manners and niceness are more suggesting it is just nice to hold the door for someone. i never taught the kids specifically for women. but, when they would run into convenience store and see someone and hold the door open, i would praise and was not gender specific. my youngest liked the praise so much he would stand at the door and wait and hold and hold and hold... lol.

actually, i did teach you hold for the women. gentlemen stuff. then i read a thread in du and it confused the shit out of me, lol. now kids play it by ear.

[Scout]

5. i don't have a problem if someone/a man holds the door for me...

i don't EXPECT that it be done, but i don't have a problem if it is done. by a man or a woman. i do the same, i hold the door for who is behind regardless of gender.

what pisses me off is the ones who pitch a little fit about it either way, or if they don't think i'm appropriately grateful or something. or if i end up getting the door for myself because it's too awkward to wait for them to get it, then they get in a little snit, like i'm so ungrateful or something.

[Scout]

6. chivalry is a man's inclination to protect a woman from every man but himself. n/t

[MadrasT]

7. Oh. That's good.

That's *really* good.

[Scout]

8. they only put you on a pedastal so they can look up your dress. n/t

[Little Star]

16. That made me laugh! lol

[CrispyQ]

9. Zang! -nt

[laconicsax]

12. +1

[laconicsax]

13. Considering how it's based on the enforcement of gender roles...

[Texasgal]

14. I open the door for Men

and other Women. I sometimes pull a chair out for my husband or dad.

I would do it for an expecting Mother anytime. To me it's more about being polite and thinking of others.

[laconicsax]

15. FWIW: That isn't chivalry.

Chivalry is the one-sided system of the strong, capable knight protecting the feeble womenfolk. While that extended to what are now considered polite gestures, the origin is all about treating women like fragile creatures who may break if they have to exert themselves in the slightest.

[Texasgal]

17. I am aware of this.

I was just posting out loud.

I don't believe that every man that opens a door for me or pulls my chair out thinks I am fragile. I do the same things just to be polite. That was my point.

[laconicsax]

18. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I didn't mean to imply that politeness was a result of thinking women are fragile.

[Texasgal]

19. No problem.

i wasn't clear either!

[redqueen]

20. Holding a door open for the person behind you is just polite behavior.

Stuff like men stepping aside and holding the door open as a women walk through is sexist IMO, yes. It's that 'benevolent' sexism that tends to enable the other kind.

When anyone goes further than polite behavior for me it makes me uncomfortable, personally, but nowhere near angry. Giving a mouthful of abuse to anyone who was only being considerate is just rude.