What About the Men? Why Our Gender System Sucks for Men, Too

[redqueen]

Last edited Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:55 PM - Edit history (2)

Cross posted from LGBT. Half of this is dead on. It does dedicate a few paragraphs where the writers veer into the tired 'Why won't feminists solve EVERYTHING?' and wave dumbassery... and later goes completely off the rails. (Seems pretty much worthless after page 4 actually.)

Regardless, the patriarchy hurts men too. It sounds trite and its indefensible when MRA's try to use it as an excuse to minimize women's issues, but it is no less a fact.

Like Amanda Marcotte said in the the piece bb posted... the answer? More feminism. I'm not sure why it still isn't clear that feminism is also about smashing the tired concept of 'gender' which causes so very many problems and provides nothing useful or constructive whatsoever.

If you are anything like us, you spent some time when you were younger playing with optical illusions: the vase that, if you looked at it differently, was two faces; the fish that were also birds; the old woman who was also a young lady.

If you were reading this in a book in a bookstore, and some malicious person had not moved it into the Local Birdwatching category, it would almost certainly be next to some other books about gender. (Yes, this is related.) Look at the other books, and you’d find they have one thing in common—they’re almost all about women. Women and work. Women and body image. Women and race. Women and sex. Women and feminism.

You’d think that only women have a gender.

For a long time, we’ve only been able to see half the illusion—we see the birds, but not the fish; the vases, but not the faces. We’ve noticed the thousands of ways, big and small, that our current gender system wounds women. Rarely, however, and often only as an afterthought does anyone remark on how the current gender system harms men.

http://www.alternet.org/story/156194/what_about_the_men_why_our_gender_system_sucks_for_men_too? akid=9046.225459.5UWsCt&rd=1&t=2

Edit to add... the piece also goes off the rails about halfway through, talking about how feminists should 'embrace the masculist movement' or some such drivel. No. Amanda Marcotte had it right. More feminism is the answer.

If masculists want to do work on this and stop reinforcing these 'gender' concepts, more power to them.

[redqueen]

1. Makes one wonder why so many fight so hard against acknowledging the patriarchy...

Historically and cross-culturally, men’s life expectancy is shorter than women’s; in the United States, men tend to live four years less than women. While some of the discrepancy may be biological, much of it is due to socialization: in fact, the level of patriarchy in a society is associated with lower life expectancy for men.

[boston bean]

2. MRA's think 'crazy ass women' are the problem, not male privilege or in other words, the patriarchy.

[redqueen]

5. Yeah, but they think male privilege is an imaginary concept and the patriarchy isnt real either.

So they're simply delusional.

[ismnotwasm]

3. Meh

What about the men? How about grow up and suit up.

Men are the DEFAULT gender. The ones who formed our current systems, opinions, values. That why woman are framed as gendered and men not so much. There is actually a lot of feminist literature on it, the most famous, perhaps being "The Second Sex". Females have been playing catch up for millennia.

I used to think that--about patriarchy harming men, until I talked to some male friends about it. Even the most open minded of them has a hard time seeing male entitlement for what it is, although some come very close. It's too entrenched in human culture. It's work to break through that wall, and what tends to happen is a lengthy stop at classism; not racism or sexism, but a opinion that it's socio-economic divides that are the major problem, NOT that the patriarchal system itself was part and parcel of such divides.

While men will acknowledge the damage of What was that word in the article? Masculism? It's often coached in coded, sexual acess, Eve-and-the-apple terms, i.e. 'Women tempt me but the ones I want go out with assholes, while here I sit, such a nice guy, I am not getting any. Women are the problem' ---not that these types would look twice at a 'nice' lovely and loving woman who might be five foot three and a hundred and ninety pounds or so.

I'm not a nanny or a Mommy for the recalcitrant male who has too much to loose by opening their mind.
I'm always there for the ones who want to listen to feminist concerns. In fact some of the most interesting conversations about feminism can be with men.

"What About the Men" is an old war cry, and while I believe it's worthy of discussion and I much appreciate your post, I also believe this article doesn't bring anything new to the table; well that's not true, I don't think there has has been a what about the men discussion in a long time. It might prove productive.

[redqueen]

4. I don't disagree with anything you've said.

It's sad how resistant so many men are to this message.

Like you said, the distractions and diversions to class divisions are so common its almost like there's a playbook somewhere.

And the truly pathetic thing is it takes just a brief look at social structures to see that no matter the class, men are the dominant group in each one.

I hope younger generations are seeing through the gender ruse. God knows its stupid and transparent enough.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Because

Of this post, I just bought "The Second Sex" for my iPad. I just realized how long it had been since I had read it.
There is a newsfeed that caters to a younger demographic called "Buzzfeed" it's mostly comical, but often topical. It, of course, has its share of sexism, but What I find heartening is how many feminist articles are on it, or call outs on sexist ads or behavior. Or the disgust expressed at the Tosh situation. So many younger folks ARE seeing it, perhaps in numbers greater than we think.

Which brings me back to the topic of what about the men, maybe more of them are ready to learn about and to acknowledge the damage patriarchy/male domination has done to the human condition than *I* thought.

[redqueen]

7. Well...

After reading your post I was moved to go back and read it again, and you're spot on, really.

The writers bend over backwards to coddle men. At some point there has to be some pride and self respect from men. I do hope younger generations will be less likely to subscribe to the infantilization that is used in the attempt to force women to make safe spaces for men to learn about gender and how destructive it is. These are grown ass people, not children who need mommies to make learning about 'gender' less threatening to their egos.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Yup, that was my first thought

They are grown, one of my objections to the article was the coddling mommy attitude. As well the the presumptuous thought that men actually give shit.

Still, I do have hope. I see little signs of it here and there, a random article in Roling Stone, the occational public call out of sexist bullshit, etc.

[redqueen]

9. It does seem like most don't give even half a shit.

Back in the day I would have expected better, at least on a progressive website. Live and learn.

[seabeyond]

12. i do see the positive and then i see

the number of popularity in tv series, movies and books where rape is entertainment and porn is normalized.

then i have a wtf reaction again, lol. a lot of people have been asking me about 50 shades, lol. out of the blue. cause i read so much.

but, we have been having inspiration too, in this forum of pockets of young feminist calling this crap out and organizing with seventeen to stop the airbrushing, ect...

[seabeyond]

11. we are seeing the younger generations step up more and more. they are not liking what they are

seeing that we created for them to live in, lets remember. and then what ismnot just said.

[seabeyond]

10. nanny or a Mommy for the recalcitrant male who has too much to loose by opening their mind.

this is the hard of it, that is for sure. because of the entitlements there is an advantage, and even though they can recognize the harm, they want that addressed while holding onto the privilege and fun part of it. it is quite something.

then again, we see it with the female gender in aspects, too. so gonna say it is a human condition

it just seems the caricatures are so much more pronounced and taking over all that we are.

mostly, it is our sons and daughters that will get it most, having the conditions brought to their attention and easier for them to see.

[seabeyond]

13. now, what about the men. we are all about the men and talk about the men often, their authentic

self. true masculinity thru character. anyone want to talk about " what about the men"? i am all for it. cause without the " what about the men" us women are never gonna be where we want to be.