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Sat Jan 2, 2021, 02:16 PM

Why we can't have nice things part 4.

Gun nuts all say that gun laws are stupid. Ya' know what? They're right. Look at this 6 minute video and I'm sure you'll agree. It's distasteful and insulting but bear with me because it points out the fallacy of how we go about regulating firearms and how gun nuts always find a work around.



Nobody sets out to write stupid laws. Nobody wrote a law that said, 'put a piece of plastic on a military inspired rapid fire death machine'. Somebody attempted to write a law that would make the military inspired rapid fire death machine less so without actually taking the military inspired rapid fire death machine from 'law abiding citizens'. The fact that the gun industry will use the letter of the law to thwart the intent of the law is the flaw in writing legislation to accommodate gun owner's tender feelings.

Time to say, “Fuck you and your gun fetish!” and legislate the lethality of guns.

What made the guns used at Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Pulse and Las Vegas so deadly? The ability to fire bullets rapidly and reload instantly. A shooter's ability to kill and maim is limited only by the physical strength necessary to carry extra high capacity magazines. THAT is what must be legislated, not some esoteric description or line in the ATF handbook.

I propose, as a minimum, making the manufacture, import, sale or transfer of any semi automatic gun that uses removable magazines illegal. Period. Offer a one time 90 day buyback after which any illegal gun found will be confiscated and the owner punished with a fine and/or prison. Period.

Objections will begin with wild eyed screams of Second amendment!!11!! Sorry but no. The decision in Heller vs DC very clearly says that there is no right to own any gun for any reason by anyone and the State may regulate guns by type (it specifically mentioned the M16). The next objection will be Precedent to which the answer is Precedents are overturned all the time—Scalia ignored 200 years of Precedent in Heller. Besides, the SCOTUS has upheld state 'assault weapon' bans.

Some will say there are 300 million guns so a buy back is too expensive. Nope, not all fit the criteria and only about 1/3 of the rest will be sold back. The rest will be in one of two categories: hidden under the bed or in a closet where they will never hurt anyone or found when the 'militia' plays war games in the woods and confiscated. In any case we won't be seeing any pretend patriots in camouflage flaunting them at protests.

If all else fails the ATF can subpoena the NRA's data base and track them down. Yeah, the NRA has maintained a database of gun purchases with ownership data since the '70s. Gun dealers provided the information to them for marketing purposes.

This epidemic has no vaccine. It's up to us, you and me, to bring this insanity under control. Join an anti gun violence organization of your choice. Give money, join, go to meetings, write letters to the editor and your representatives. Make your voice heard.

Part 1 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213614

Part 2 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213620

Part 3 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213623

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Reply Why we can't have nice things part 4. (Original post)
flamin lib Jan 2021 OP
wheelman Jan 2021 #1
billh58 Jan 2021 #2
Shermann Jan 2021 #3
flamin lib Jan 2021 #4
Shermann Jan 2021 #5
flamin lib Jan 2021 #6
Shermann Jan 2021 #7
flamin lib Jan 2021 #8

Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 03:40 PM

1. No.

Life long dem. Obama twice--Joe this time. Well over six decades on this earth. But no. Why? Lots of reasons. The latest being Russian colusion and Orange shitstains storm troopers and batshit crazy base. Sorry. Find another way. Look to root causes. Not bans.

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Response to wheelman (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 03:46 PM

2. You are posting in the

wrong Group.

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Response to flamin lib (Original post)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 05:07 PM

3. The only semi-automatic guns without magazines are shotguns

This would make every semi-automatic pistol and rifle illegal which is probably a step too far.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 05:53 PM

4. Why yes, yes it would.

The number one type of gun used in homicides, suicides and accidental shootings is a pistol and semi auto pistols are the vast majority of pistols in circulation at present.

That still leaves revolvers that can carry up to 8 rounds, maybe more for small caliber .22s. If you can't defend yourself and your home with 8 rounds of 9mm you aren't qualified to have a gun.

The 'step too far' has been the downfall of attempted legislation. There is no way to accommodate the 2nd Amendment crowd so I say we simply stop trying.

Australia succeeded. We can too if we just elect representatives with courage and service.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 06:32 PM

5. High-cap magazines are the most vulnerable to legislation

That is the gun accessory that correlates to lethality the most directly.

High-cap mags are also quite difficult to manufacture in your garage.

The trouble with "assault rifles" is that there are few other features like that. They don't have the biggest bullets, they don't have the most muzzle velocity, they don't have the longest range, they aren't the most concealable, etc. They are "goldilocks" guns that are well-purposed for taking out infantry. Even the rate of fire can be matched by some hunting rifles. Well, that makes legislation difficult.

If the Dems keep the legislation to just high-cap magazines and not introduce other weak links like the 1994 ban did, it will stand the test of time better.

Gun nut here trying to help.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 07:38 PM

6. I appreciate that and I appreciate that we can have a civil discourse even though we disagree.

Yeah, high cap mags are low hanging fruit. But there's a workaround; 3d printed magazines. It is truly 'feel good' legislation. As long as there is a gun to put them in there's no point is legislating against them. The AW ban kinda worked but once again there's a workaround. However an AW is defined the gun makers will tweak it to by-pass the purpose of legislation.

If those who are truly knowledgeable about firearms would negotiate in good faith there might be compromise. Since the gun industry took over the NRA, a once venerable organization dedicated to gun safety and education, there is no compromise. Not one inch. Because of this I have come to the conclusion that those of us seeking to reduce gun violence must deal from the same starting point.

Since the carnage cannot be eliminated we have to diminish it. To do that the best starting place is the lethality of weaponry available. Hence my beginning, end end, point is just get rid of semi auto guns with removeable magazines. You may believe it can't happen. I know it can't if nobody demands for it.

Had gun owners like yourself begun dealing in good faith 30 years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

BTW, lapsed C&R licensee with a collection. I'm not scared of guns, I'm scared of people who can't leave home without one.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 08:15 PM

7. 3D printing could be the Achilles heel of any magazine ban

I'll have to research this more, but I wouldn't lump it in with "feel good" legislation just yet. If it were a felony to manufacture or print them, it would certainly have a throttling effect.

A bonafide example of "feel good" legislation would be restricting bayonets. How many people get killed in the US with bayonets?

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Response to Shermann (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 2, 2021, 08:56 PM

8. Bayonet mounts are exactly the thing that has made legislating 'assault weapons'

impossible. Hence my call to address the central issue of lethality, rate of fire and reloading magazines.

I have no issue with semi auto guns. SKS rifles have a fixed mag and must be reloaded through the breech. I'm fine with that. A .22 with a 15 round tube mag is okay with me.

Find a way to decrease lethality without what I've proposed and I'm all ears.

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