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applegrove

(118,642 posts)
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 11:42 PM Oct 2015

NRA is not your friend

NRA is not your friend

By Times of Trenton Guest Columnist, William Gage

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/10/nra_is_not_your_friend_opinion.html

"SNIP.............


After the Sandy Hook massacre, the NRA proposed legislation to put armed guards in all schools, rather than to keep guns out of the hands of psychos. They said "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
And guess what? About half the members of the NRA's board of directors are also on the boards of directors of several gun manufacturers.

You see, by saying that, what they REALLY hoped for was to sell guns to not only all those terrified citizens, but also to all those guards.

YOU do the math: crazed gun massacres are good for business.

Oh, and by the way, who would pay all those guards? Taxpayers, not the NRA. You know, the same taxpayers that pay for all the uninsured gunshot victims at America's ERs.



............SNIP"
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NRA is not your friend (Original Post) applegrove Oct 2015 OP
The Protection of Lawful Arms in Commerce Act soryang Oct 2015 #1
I don't so much care about liability laws as a rule. Much more applegrove Oct 2015 #4
re: I don't care so much... soryang Oct 2015 #6
The NRA is evil. demosincebirth Oct 2015 #2
The gun deaths should be seen for what they are... a form of human sacrifice Freelancer Oct 2015 #3
NRA is a shill for the Gun Manufacturers dem in texas Oct 2015 #5

soryang

(3,299 posts)
1. The Protection of Lawful Arms in Commerce Act
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:28 AM
Oct 2015

this federal law passed in 2005 effectively blocks lawsuits against manufacturers and distributors for damages, injury and deaths caused by the firearms they sell to the public.

i did a cursory search of the internet because i don't have access to the paid legal web sites and found these three links which lay out the products liability theory blocked by such laws in the case of Merrill v. Navegar, Inc., 28 P.3d 116 (Cal. 2001); http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/merrill-v-navegar-inc-32164; This California Supreme Court case predated the Arms
Act but essentially performs the same function protecting the arms industry from lawsuits:

...The Senate Analysis described the bill's "purpose" as follows: (1) "to protect manufacturers and sellers of firearms from being held liable in tort for selling or furnishing a firearm that was used to cause an injury or death"; (2) "to preclude courts from using products liability theories to hold firearm manufacturers and dealers civilly liable to victims of firearms usage"; (3) "to prevent the courts from extending products liability laws to hold a supplier of a firearm liable in tort to persons injured by use of the weapon"; and (3) "to 'stop at birth' the notion that manufacturers and dealers are liable in products liability to victims of handgun usage." (Id. at pp. 2, 3, 7.)...


Merrill v. Navegar, was a case in which a TEC 9 pistol was used to murder a large number of people in a single episode.

Another interesting document i found questioning the constitutionality of laws protecting the special interest arms industry from law suits was an amicus brief filed by public interest groups in an appeal filed by the city of New York which raised the legal arguments against eliminating citizen and government access to the courts without providing an alternative remedy. In my opinion, there is no question that the The Protection of Lawful Arms in Commerce Act violates the separation of powers doctrine and the fundamental right of citizens to have access to the courts for redress of injury:

AMICI CURIAE BRIEF OF LEGAL COMMUNITY AGAINST VIOLENCE, EDUCATIONAL FUNDTO STOP GUN VIOLENCE, AND THE VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER SUPPORTING CROSS-APPELLANT CITY OF NEW YORK AND URGING REVERSAL ON THE DISTRICT COURT’S CONSTITUTIONAL RULING


Ironically the case style in which the brief was filed was Guilianni et al., v. Beretta et al. http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/litigation/PDF/NYCvBerettaetal-LCAVetalAmiciBrief.pdf

...The Arms Act conflicts with these core constitutional principles because it
eliminates giant swaths of state remedies without providing any alternative avenue to those injured by the firearm defendants’ conduct. It thus mirrors the statutes struck down by the Supreme Court in Poindexter v. Greenhow, 114 U.S. 270 (1885), and Truax v. Corrigan, 257 U.S. 312 (1921), as violating the Due ProcessClause by the elimination of the “minimum” of judicial “protection for every one’s right of life, liberty, and property” which “the Congress or [a state] legislature may not withhold.” Id. at 332;...


Lastly, this is a link to a page put out by a law firm that reflects the kind of lawsuit against a manufacturer that may or may not survive these restrictions, the straight up mechanical defect that kills or injures people. http://drinnonlaw.com/Texas-Defective-Firearms.php

i do not practice law, these cases are not shepardized, as they say in that business, but the theoretical and political ramifications of the Congressional legislation, it's fundamental unfairness and unconstitutionality are suggested by the first two links, in my opinion. The objective should be to get rid of the Arms Act.









applegrove

(118,642 posts)
4. I don't so much care about liability laws as a rule. Much more
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 01:11 AM
Oct 2015

interested that regulations change to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people.

soryang

(3,299 posts)
6. re: I don't care so much...
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:01 AM
Oct 2015
We should care about preserving the right to sue not only for those who are injured or killed, but because litigation is a useful supplement to regulation. Especially for guns, given that regulation is anemic in the first place. Often, defendants will change their behavior—self-regulate, in other words—rather than risk liability. Faced with the public nuisance suits, Smith & Wesson agreed to limit retail customers to no more than one gun within a two-week period and threatened dealers with cancellation of their contracts if "a disproportionate number" of crimes were committed with guns they sold. S&W also began installing safely locks on its weapons.


From Sue the Gun Makers, and the Sellers, Too

Congress should repeal the bad law that shields them from liability.

By John Culhane

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/12/congress_should_repeal_the_law_that_protects_the_gun_industry_from_lawsuits.html

John Culhane is a professor of law at Delaware Law School and a co-director of the Family Health Law & Policy Institute.

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
3. The gun deaths should be seen for what they are... a form of human sacrifice
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 01:02 AM
Oct 2015

It's a form of human sacrifice that gun lovers are more than willing to accept. They're convinced that Freedom (with a big 'F') requires lots and lots of guns to keep alive. To many of them, if that means thousands or even millions of gun deaths, then so be it. What number would change their minds? I don't think there is a number.

dem in texas

(2,674 posts)
5. NRA is a shill for the Gun Manufacturers
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 01:35 AM
Oct 2015

The NRA represents themselves as a protector of the individual gun owner, but in fact the NRA is a shill for the gun makers, using fear tactics to get the NRA members to buy more guns.

The true cost of gun ownership falls on the taxpayer who end up footing many of the costs of gun violence. Many people who are shot and rushed to the hospital don't have any medical insurance, so guess who pays for their care - you. If a man is killed, his small children will get survivor benefits, guess who pays for this - you. If someone is injured and cannot work, many cases will receive funding and help. The taxpayer will also pay for this.

Innocent people, young kids and babies are being killed while the gun companies are recording record profits, all the while we the taxpayers are paying a huge amount to support all this killing.

The NRA use all the they get from the gun makers as a tool to control voting in congress. Our representatives are too weak and too greedy to stand up against the NRA.

The only way to end this terrible cycle of killing is for people to rise up against their representatives and challenge them to vote against any more laws that favor the NRA agenda and to do away with many that are on the books. Obama is right, this should be the one determining factor when voting - at least until something changes.

Do you know that the NRA got a law on the books that prohibits the government from collecting data about gun violence?

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