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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:26 PM Feb 2016

Just a theory

I don't think all the crap the H folks are throwing at Bernie is going to do much to move the needle. The reason is because no one trusts her. She has extremely high untrustworthiness ratings in polls, and both she and Bill have shown the same pattern over an over again when confronted- deny, then modify the denial when new evidence comes out, and keep going until everyone is exhausted. Works to keep them from being impeached or indicted, but it has a cost.

She can copy Sanders as much as she wants, but very few are going to believe that she really means what she says. I think deep down even her most fervent supporters know that she doesn't mean anything when she changes her positions to move closer to Bernie. I really don't think they want that to happen anyway as they have spent so much time and effort belittling those same positions. It is all just a cynical ploy that depends on voters not paying attention and not remembering the past. But Hillary's behavior has a way of making people remember these things.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Just a theory (Original Post) n2doc Feb 2016 OP
I agree completely. StandingInLeftField Feb 2016 #1
Thing is, people already know Hillary (even if she keeps "evolving"), for better or worse Mufaddal Feb 2016 #2
It's really about trying to make the first impression of Sanders a bad one. jeff47 Feb 2016 #3
Your 'first impression' point is spot on Rebkeh Feb 2016 #8
Mistrust of media is high too abelenkpe Feb 2016 #4
Just my humble opinion MissDeeds Feb 2016 #5
The crap itself won't move the needle in her favor. winter is coming Feb 2016 #6
This is her fundamental problem... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #7
1. I agree completely.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:35 PM
Feb 2016

You cannot fake sincerity (unless you are a true sociopath.) HRC does not come across as sincere in what she says, and it shows in her body language and speech patterns. People instinctively pick up on this (unless that person is a Republican, evidently.)

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
2. Thing is, people already know Hillary (even if she keeps "evolving"), for better or worse
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:37 PM
Feb 2016

And often for worse. The needle isn't going to move much for her. It's up to Bernie now to help people get to know him, and that's a tough battle. When I tell people I'm from Vermont, I have literally been asked on more than one occasion, "What state is that in?" So the main struggle now is helping to spread Bernie's gospel.

And yes, she depends on the memory hole being deep among her supporters, or upon their cynicism such that they just don't care, or are experts at mental gymnastics to justify getting behind the Thatcher of the Dems.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
3. It's really about trying to make the first impression of Sanders a bad one.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:42 PM
Feb 2016

Clinton can't really change what people think about her. She's been in the spotlight too long.

The slime-flinging is hoping to make people's first impression of Sanders a bad one, so that Sanders has to do more work to introduce himself.

It didn't work with Obama, but they got to "kitchen sink" mode later in the primaries. Obama had already started becoming well-known. We'll see what effect it has this early in the primaries.

Rebkeh

(2,450 posts)
8. Your 'first impression' point is spot on
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:25 PM
Feb 2016

It's one of the reasons Bernie supporters have to be above the fray, no matter how hard they try to bait us. They'd love to get us to spoil the first impression for them.

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
4. Mistrust of media is high too
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:54 PM
Feb 2016

It's difficult to erase the memory of the run up to the Iraq war and so much more. So mcnbc (Comcast) and CNN and the Wall Street journal they just don't hold as much sway. Bernie wants the wealthy and corporations to pay more in taxes. He wants to stop the influence of money in politics. Everyone has heard him say that. So when politicians and media personalities attack him it's difficult not to suspect that they are just protecting their wallets. Yknow?

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
5. Just my humble opinion
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:02 PM
Feb 2016

but I think the more crap and dirt they fling at Bernie, the more it helps him. Because I totally support Bernie and know he is the most ethical candidate we've had in ages, it ticks me off, but I do think people are onto HRC and her dirty campaign tactics. Furthermore, they are well aware of DWS and the DNC's attempt to circumvent the democratic process any way they can to anoint their chosen establishment candidate.

If there are efforts at the convention to deny Bernie the nomination - if he is truly the candidate the people have chosen - all hell will break loose. We are not going to stand for a "selected" nominee. People will absolutely not take this, and there will be a serious backlash, the least of which will be people leaving the party in droves.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
6. The crap itself won't move the needle in her favor.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:05 PM
Feb 2016

I think Camp Weathervane is hoping to needle Bernie or his supporters into an angry reaction that can be inflated into a shitstorm, which would possibly damage him. They've been trying really, really hard to start something they could point to as "proof" that Bernie and his supporters are racist or at best indifferent to POC.

It's not even really about whether they can convince folks that Sanders and Sanders supporters are Bad People. Every minute the media spends on a nontroversy is a minute they don't spend discussing investigations or poll numbers or policy positions.

TTUBatfan2008

(3,623 posts)
7. This is her fundamental problem...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:22 PM
Feb 2016

Millenials are not stupid, despite the insistence of her campaign that we are naïve idiots. We see her pandering via identity politics, we see her constant flip-flops on major issues while Bernie has been far more consistent for decades, we see the FBI investigation that the entire Democratic Elite has chosen to ignore, we see her lying about Super Pacs along with corporate donations in general, and we see that her husband's policies of the 1990's were not so great in retrospect.

We see through all of it. And the more her campaign talks down to us, the less likely we are willing to support her. We saw through her bullshit in 2008 and we still see through it today. In fact, Sanders is receiving an even higher percentage of the youth vote than Obama did compared to Clinton. This article nails it:

https://newrepublic.com/article/129632/millennial-voters-ask-much-hate

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