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mopinko

(70,532 posts)
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 01:53 PM Jul 2015

some slime going around.

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by TM99 (a host of the Bernie Sanders group).

a hillary supporter posted this on her fb page.
i wonder if folks have seen this. please debunk, and i will be happy to clobber her.

As far as Bernie's long held views, here's a passage from Ashley Smith writing for the socialistworker.org

"DESPITE HIS own claims, Sanders has not been an antiwar leader. Ever since he won election to the House, he has taken either equivocal positions on U.S. wars or outright supported them.
His hawkish positions--especially his decision to support Bill Clinton's 1999 Kosovo War--drove one of his key advisers, Jeremy Brecher, to resign from his staff. Brecher wrote in his resignation letter, "Is there a moral limit to the military violence you are willing to participate in or support?"

So outraged were peace activists over Sanders' support of the Kosovo War that they occupied his office in 1999. Sanders had them arrested.

Under the Bush regime, Sanders' militarism had only grown worse. While he called for alternative approaches to the war on Afghanistan, he failed to join the sole Democrat, Barbara Lee, to vote against Congress' resolution that gave George Bush a blank check to launch war on any country he deemed connected to the September 11 attacks.

Ever since, he has voted for appropriations bills to fund the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, despite their horrific toll on the occupied peoples as well as U.S. soldiers.

Sanders has been critical of the war on Iraq, but he has supported pro-war measures--such as a March 21, 2003, resolution stating, "Congress expresses the unequivocal support and appreciation of the nation to the President as Commander-in-Chief for his firm leadership and decisive action in the conduct of military operations in Iraq as part of the ongoing Global War on Terrorism."

He also opposes immediate withdrawal from Iraq, despite the fact that a majority of residents in his home city of Burlington voted for such a position in a town meeting resolution in February 2005.

The day after his election to the Senate, Sanders declared, "I don't think you can do a quote-unquote immediate withdrawal. I think the policy has got to be we will withdraw our troops as soon as possible, and by that, I mean that I believe we can have our troops out in the next year, and maybe a significant number of them before that. I don't think you can snap your fingers and just bring all the troops home tomorrow. I just don't think that's practical."

Even more shocking, Sanders scuttled any action on a wave of Bush impeachment resolutions that swept Vermont towns in 2006. Like House Majority Leader-to-be Nancy Pelosi, who had promised not to impeach Bush, Sanders argued that impeachment was impractical, and that activists should put energy into electing Democrats.

Outraged, Dan Dewalt, the organizer of the impeachment resolution campaign in Vermont, said, "We think we have quality politicians in Vermont. We're wrong. We have politics as usual in Vermont. Our so-called independent congressman, Bernie Sanders, can't get far enough away from impeachment."

Sanders voted for House Resolution 921, which gave full support to Israel's murderous war on Lebanon. He also voted for HR 4681 that imposed sanctions on the Palestinian Authority with the aim of removing the democratically elected Hamas government.

In response, longtime War Resisters League leader David McReynolds sent a public letter to Sanders, stating, "Because of your vote of support for the Israeli actions, I would hope any friends and contacts of mine would not send you funds, nor give you their votes."

Indeed, Sanders has consistently defended Israel through it worst crimes against Palestinians and Arabs. Unsurprisingly, some Sanders staffers have also worked with the American Israeli Political Action Committee (AIPAC)--including David Sirota, now a Democratic Party strategist, and Sanders' former communications director Joel Barkin.

Finally, in perhaps his worst betrayal yet, Sanders joined a host of liberal Democrats including Barbara Lee and John Conyers to vote for HR 282, the Iran Freedom Support Act--which bears a striking resemblance to the resolutions that set up the framework for the war on Iraq.

The act stipulates that the U.S. should impose sanctions on Iran to prevent it from developing weapons of mass destruction and distributing them to aid international terrorism. It also calls for the U.S. to support democratic change in the country, thereby establishing all necessary pretexts for a war on Iran. Democrat Dennis Kucinich voted against the act and denounced it as a "stepping stone to war."


eta link to original-http://socialistworker.org/2015/05/05/problem-bernie-sanders

59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
some slime going around. (Original Post) mopinko Jul 2015 OP
Delete this or you might get banned from posting in this group. L0oniX Jul 2015 #1
hey now. calm down. mopinko Jul 2015 #3
I've seen some of this before. Would also appreciate links and sources. leveymg Jul 2015 #2
IMO, this seems a sideways entre of criticism better placed in GD-P HereSince1628 Jul 2015 #4
i posted it here because mopinko Jul 2015 #6
There doesn't appear to be anything disrespectful. If it's factual, we should all know. leveymg Jul 2015 #7
If it had some back-up I'd say yes, as it is, imo it should be in GD-P HereSince1628 Jul 2015 #8
I agree ...this is not the place for this kind of op. L0oniX Jul 2015 #10
links added. mopinko Jul 2015 #11
Yes, and I appreciate that. HereSince1628 Jul 2015 #12
a link w some back up. mopinko Jul 2015 #5
Here's the excerpt in that 1999 Nation article. leveymg Jul 2015 #14
This has some info on Bernie's stances toward Israel on various issues over the years kath Jul 2015 #9
thank you. posted. mopinko Jul 2015 #15
Obviously, Ms. Smith writes... StandingInLeftField Jul 2015 #13
yeah, i was shocked. mopinko Jul 2015 #17
Here is a quote from another article azmom Jul 2015 #25
Socialist don't like that Bernie has voted with azmom Jul 2015 #16
like they have a lot of opportunities. mopinko Jul 2015 #18
Didn't you support Rahm? smokey nj Jul 2015 #20
yes. mopinko Jul 2015 #42
Rahm is DLC/DNC corporatist slime, & your suport of Rahm makes your concern post a little suspect peacebird Jul 2015 #51
rahm is my mayor. i dont support everything he does. mopinko Jul 2015 #53
No, I am calling Rahm a troll tho peacebird Jul 2015 #54
it's too bad he didnt have a quality challenger. mopinko Jul 2015 #55
There's an old inside joke that socialists leveymg Jul 2015 #22
Socialist want a real socialist in power. azmom Jul 2015 #23
thank you. mopinko Jul 2015 #49
Socialists have different views - just like dems TBF Jul 2015 #56
It certainly is. Team Bernie all the way to the White House. azmom Jul 2015 #57
Viable third parties just are not likely with the way we've built our system of elections. Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #35
You don't see the ridiculous irony of a Hillary supporter using Socialistworker to bash Bernie? smokey nj Jul 2015 #19
did i say that? mopinko Jul 2015 #36
Where did I use the words concern trolling? smokey nj Jul 2015 #43
I have no idea if this is a reliable site, but it details some of Bernie's votes on war&peace issues kath Jul 2015 #21
We have just demonstrated that the Bernie Sanders group tolerates facts better than the others leveymg Jul 2015 #24
Bernie supporters are awesome! azmom Jul 2015 #28
and we know how to bounce! marym625 Jul 2015 #30
thank you. mopinko Jul 2015 #41
It's very difficult for the hosts to discuss anything because we're not given a host forum marym625 Jul 2015 #26
I'd ask that the post be given more time to find links and sources. leveymg Jul 2015 #31
Thanks for your input marym625 Jul 2015 #32
srsly? mopinko Jul 2015 #37
absolutely not! marym625 Jul 2015 #45
why else would you ask that? mopinko Jul 2015 #46
For the same reasons others have said they think it belongs in GDP marym625 Jul 2015 #50
As another host, TM99 Jul 2015 #58
Go for it marym625 Jul 2015 #59
I have seen this article (or others like it before) and more than likely it will come up swilton Jul 2015 #27
Thanks for this marym625 Jul 2015 #29
You're welcome! swilton Jul 2015 #40
thank you. mopinko Jul 2015 #38
Thank you so much for that. Paka Jul 2015 #44
Thanks for this post...I think you lay out what Bernie is about very succinctly.. KoKo Jul 2015 #52
I don't know why this comes across to me as poorly written satire, because it's mostly disingenous. Cleita Jul 2015 #33
lol tymorial Jul 2015 #34
Even if it was all true, I find the idea that I would switch support to someone known for, and proud djean111 Jul 2015 #39
This is a raft of Sh#t aintitfunny Jul 2015 #47
i agree with you. mopinko Jul 2015 #48
 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
1. Delete this or you might get banned from posting in this group.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 01:58 PM
Jul 2015

Legit info should have legit links to back it up. A personal FB page does not qualify.

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
3. hey now. calm down.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:06 PM
Jul 2015

i edited to add the link. i posted in all sincerity.
i would love to debunk her. a decent person, but a real know it all.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
2. I've seen some of this before. Would also appreciate links and sources.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:04 PM
Jul 2015

No need to scrub the post, IMHO. If there's error or misinformation, people can point it out.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
4. IMO, this seems a sideways entre of criticism better placed in GD-P
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:07 PM
Jul 2015

Respect of protected groups really is necessary if we are to avoid debilitating acrimony.

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
6. i posted it here because
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jul 2015

it wasnt something i wanted to hear from the hillary supporters about.

honestly, i have zero snarky or nasty intent here.
i love bernie. i was surprised to read this stuff. i am sure it will come up again. i want to be able to knock it down.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
7. There doesn't appear to be anything disrespectful. If it's factual, we should all know.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jul 2015

One can understand these things about Bernie and still support his candidacy as a Democrat; particularly, considering the track record of the front-runner.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
8. If it had some back-up I'd say yes, as it is, imo it should be in GD-P
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jul 2015
 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
10. I agree ...this is not the place for this kind of op.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jul 2015

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
11. links added.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:17 PM
Jul 2015

and i looked up the bill that was mentioned, and he did indeed vote yes.

again, no disrespect was intended. at.all.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
12. Yes, and I appreciate that.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jul 2015

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
5. a link w some back up.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:10 PM
Jul 2015
http://www.thenation.com/article/protest-war#

srsly, i am not trying to stir shit. i think having ammunition to shoot down stuff like this is important.
it came as a surprise to me.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
14. Here's the excerpt in that 1999 Nation article.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jul 2015
An administration that once thought the Kosovo conflict would be over in a matter of days now finds its clock running down under the 1973 War Powers Act, which allows the President sixty days from starting hostilities to secure Congressional approval or begin extricating US forces. Congress has already refused to endorse the air war by its 213-to-213 vote on April 28. If by May 24 we're still at war, the President will have to return to Congress in search of a new majority or risk having the war slapped down in court. So it's crucial to solidify the current antiwar base in Congress and persuade liberals like Paul Wellstone and Bernie Sanders, who support the war's early stages, to change their votes.


Note that both Bernie and Paul voted initially for initial part of that one. Also, the 213-213 tie vote on expanding the air war.

Makes one realize how far to the Right Congress has moved on these war or peace issues. Frightening, really.

kath

(10,565 posts)
9. This has some info on Bernie's stances toward Israel on various issues over the years
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jul 2015
http://forward.com/news/national/310087/is-bernie-sanders-a-lefty-except-for-israel/
Bernie has NOT consistently defended Israel, and according to that article tends to hold AIPAC somehwat at arm's length
Excerpt:
One longtime Hill-watcher who focuses on Israel issues placed Sanders somewhere on a continuum between California Senator Dianne Feinstein — an often outspoken Israel critic who is Jewish — and Senator Chuck Schumer, the New York Jewish lawmaker known as a forceful defender of the Jewish state.
A search of the Congressional Record reveals very few statements about Israel by Sanders on the floor of the House or the Senate. In 2002, during the debate over the resolution that authorized President George W. Bush to use military force in Iraq, Sanders, then a House member, asked whether an invasion of Iraq would worsen the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And in 2008, Sanders was one of 100 co-sponsors of a Senate resolution to recognize the 60th anniversary of Israel’s founding.
Pro-Israel lobbyists have been among those to find Sanders elusive. “He’s someone who’s sort of avoided everyone,” said Ben Chouake, who leads the hawkish pro-Israel group NORPAC. “He’s one of the few offices that, when we try to get an appointment to come talk to him, we just can’t get in… I don’t think he’s antagonistic or anything like that.”
In Vermont, a small group of AIPAC-linked Jewish activists do have Sanders’ ear on Israel-related matters. Yoram Samets, a Burlington businessman and a member of AIPAC’s national council, said that he has been in touch with Sanders for the past decade, but that Sanders does not sign any AIPAC-backed letters. His Vermont colleague Senator Patrick Leahy does not, either.
This relative silence on Israel-related issues, however, seems to have broken during and after the 2014 Gaza conflict, during which 72 Israelis and over 2,100 Palestinians were killed, the majority of them civilians. In an undated statement on his Senate website , Sanders decried “the Israeli attacks that killed hundreds of innocent people – including many women and children,” calling the bombings “disproportionate” and “completely unacceptable.”


mopinko

(70,532 posts)
15. thank you. posted.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jul 2015

i knew the du brain trust would supply me w some ammunition.

13. Obviously, Ms. Smith writes...
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jul 2015

...from the perspective of a jilted third-party proponent.

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
17. yeah, i was shocked.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jul 2015

i posted it here because i found it pretty odd considering the source.
i wonder what the back story is.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
25. Here is a quote from another article
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jul 2015

SocialistWorker.org has argued Sanders' campaign will serve to corral and co-opt the emerging left into supporting the Democratic Party--and make it harder, not easier, to build an independent, left-wing alternative.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
16. Socialist don't like that Bernie has voted with
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jul 2015

The democrats on a lot of issues. They would prefer a third party in our political system.

Bernie is an interesting mix. I like him and support most of his views.

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
18. like they have a lot of opportunities.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jul 2015

honestly, this is the first thing i have seen that gives me a seconds pause about him.
i had no idea that socialist dont like him.

smokey nj

(43,853 posts)
20. Didn't you support Rahm?
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jul 2015

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
42. yes.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:57 PM
Jul 2015

does that have something to do with this?

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
51. Rahm is DLC/DNC corporatist slime, & your suport of Rahm makes your concern post a little suspect
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 06:15 PM
Jul 2015

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
53. rahm is my mayor. i dont support everything he does.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 06:59 PM
Jul 2015

but he was the best man on the ballot.

so, are you calling me a troll, then?

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
54. No, I am calling Rahm a troll tho
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 07:00 PM
Jul 2015

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
55. it's too bad he didnt have a quality challenger.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 07:05 PM
Jul 2015

chuy is a great guy, but he was in over his head.
rahm has actually done a lot of good things for the city. but he is subject to the usual derangement syndromes that so many dems are tarred with.
but whatever. think what you like about him.

but when you say my "concern is suspect", you are calling me a troll. least you could do is own it.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
22. There's an old inside joke that socialists
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jul 2015

are like Baskins & Robbins; there are at least 47 varieties with flavor of the week changing weekly.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
23. Socialist want a real socialist in power.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:35 PM
Jul 2015

They think he is weak sauce.

That is why Bernie describes himself as a democratic socialist.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121680/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialist-not-just-socialist

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
49. thank you.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 05:50 PM
Jul 2015

good article.

TBF

(32,213 posts)
56. Socialists have different views - just like dems
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 08:03 PM
Jul 2015

my view is that if we can get Bernie in he will do less damage than Hillary (who would do less damage than Bush, etc...)

Most of us would rather see the capitalism gone, but that is not going to happen without a revolution in this country. I don't think people are there yet, but as evidenced in Madison, Wisconsin, last night - they may be ready to vote for a candidate who has a history of fighting corporations. That's a step in the right direction.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
57. It certainly is. Team Bernie all the way to the White House.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 08:16 PM
Jul 2015

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
35. Viable third parties just are not likely with the way we've built our system of elections.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:02 PM
Jul 2015

"In political science, Duverger's law is a principle that asserts that plurality rule elections structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system."

smokey nj

(43,853 posts)
19. You don't see the ridiculous irony of a Hillary supporter using Socialistworker to bash Bernie?
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jul 2015

Seriously?

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
36. did i say that?
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:34 PM
Jul 2015

i do see it. she doesnt.
really, not concern trolling. at all.

smokey nj

(43,853 posts)
43. Where did I use the words concern trolling?
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 04:07 PM
Jul 2015

kath

(10,565 posts)
21. I have no idea if this is a reliable site, but it details some of Bernie's votes on war&peace issues
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jul 2015

And at the very least could be a resource for further research on his votes: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_War_+_Peace.htm

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
24. We have just demonstrated that the Bernie Sanders group tolerates facts better than the others
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jul 2015

Even inconvenient facts most of us probably don't like. That's a really good thing, IMHO.

azmom

(5,208 posts)
28. Bernie supporters are awesome!
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jul 2015

marym625

(17,997 posts)
30. and we know how to bounce!
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jul 2015


mopinko

(70,532 posts)
41. thank you.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:51 PM
Jul 2015

like i said in another reply, i walk the walk, and when i do i like to be prepared. i dont want to be blindsided at the door.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
26. It's very difficult for the hosts to discuss anything because we're not given a host forum
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jul 2015

I will go with the majority on locking this because it seems it should be in GDP. I understand your wont to do that

Can you perhaps edit the OP in such a way to make it less uhn, just less? Ask the questions on what facts there are to debunk such things and just link to it without excerpts of the trash talk?

I agree we should all have the information and we should be able to get it easily. I was actually thinking of doing an OP that would be a place for just that. It's important to have.

So, if I have made any sense here and the other hosts agree and you agree, maybe this could be made better?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
31. I'd ask that the post be given more time to find links and sources.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jul 2015

Let's say, an hour, at least.

That way, at least there was an effort to find out how much of this can be debunked or confirmed.

That would set a good example for the others.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
32. Thanks for your input
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:53 PM
Jul 2015

I believe that the op could be shortened a great deal and people can go to the link. No need to have all that in the op. We got the idea from a small part of it

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
37. srsly?
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:42 PM
Jul 2015

a member of as long standing as i am is being suspected of trolling?
is that what you are saying?

wow. just wow.

i posted because the du brain trust is the best. i seriously want to be able to answer these accusations. they will come up again. i dont want to be blindsided at someone's door.
those that know me know that i walk the walk. and i try to be fully prepared when i do.

do you really think anyone would bother to go to the link?

i was leery that people would take this the wrong way. if this gets locked, i would find it quite the black mark on this group.
do bernie's supporters really want this to become a pinata in gdp?
srsly?

marym625

(17,997 posts)
45. absolutely not!
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 05:24 PM
Jul 2015

I said nothing eeven close to that. Dear lord how is asking you to shorten the post accusing you of trolling?

And I agreed about the information.

Wow. Just wow!

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
46. why else would you ask that?
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 05:28 PM
Jul 2015

i can see no other possible reason for the blowback on this beside people thinking i have some sort of ulterior motive. iow, trolling.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
50. For the same reasons others have said they think it belongs in GDP
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 05:50 PM
Jul 2015

I am not trying to cause problems here or be mean or anything like that. I am actually shocked at your reaction. Especially after others have said it doesn't belong here. I was trying to make everyone happy.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
58. As another host,
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 09:06 PM
Jul 2015

I think this is better suited to GD-P as well.

I don't think the poster is intentionally trying to troll or create a disturbance. I just don't think it meets the TOS of our group which is to stay positive and focus on Sander's accomplishments as his candidacy moves forward.

This is a smear piece. It is designed to provoke and distort his record demanding defensiveness especially in this Safe Haven.

As others in this thread feel the same way, I would ask the OP to voluntarily delete this OP and re-post in GD-P.

Thanks.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
59. Go for it
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 09:14 PM
Jul 2015

I tried to just have it made shorter and was accused of saying she's a troll. Never said. Never implied it. Never even crossed my mind.

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
27. I have seen this article (or others like it before) and more than likely it will come up
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:45 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:47 PM - Edit history (2)

I've also read former Vermonter/political science scholar/activist Michael Parenti's critique of Bernie Sanders.

As a Veteran for Peace (VfP) lifetime member I have thought deeply about some of Sanders' positions and have two points to raise.

1. The criticisms are coming from the framework of ideological purists such as Greens/Socialists, etc. The problem with those positions are that they are unrealistic - those parties exist in their ideological purity in European governments where coalitions are the norm and it is where ideological purity is beneficial because at the end-of the day it will be diluted. If candidates in the US were ideologically pure, their candidacies would be hopeless. Furthermore, because Sanders has mentioned on more than one occasion that he favors publicly funded elections, the Greens/Socialists/Libertarians/Justice parties will have a better chance than they do now in the long run....The US is no longer a democracy, the ecological clock is seconds away from midnight, if there were such a thing as an ideologically pure candidate, there is no time to wait for one.

2. The second point is that Sanders will listen. Economics/income inequality is his strong suit - if he addresses that issue the rest will follow. I once heard Daniel Ellsberg tell VfP members for the 2004 election that even though Kerry wasn't perfect, we should hold our noses and vote for him...Kerry would listen to us whereas Bush ii would not...The same can be said of Sanders.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
29. Thanks for this
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jul 2015
 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
40. You're welcome!
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:48 PM
Jul 2015

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
38. thank you.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jul 2015

and i agree.
if it needs to be said, and i guess it does, i love bernie. that is why this struck me as odd.

Paka

(2,760 posts)
44. Thank you so much for that.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jul 2015

Very important points!

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
52. Thanks for this post...I think you lay out what Bernie is about very succinctly..
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 06:37 PM
Jul 2015

We need to dig back to counter the OP because the OP doesn't take into consideration the WAY that Senate Votes and Parliamentary Procedure have to do with voting on Legistlation. Bernies Votes are out there and in many cases he Proposed "Amendments" that got shot down and to keep the vote open to Dem Scrutiny he voted a YES...that is held against him without looking at all the "Procedural Votes" occurred before and what his position was and why he might have had to compromise to take a Standing View.

The way our House and Senate Game Us with Lobbyist Enfluence and the the Senate RULES that are PARTY INSIDER BUSINESS...it seemed to me the Original OP was not really looking at the Circumstances of the Vote..but, doing a "Hit Piece" causing us to do our Own Research to Refute it. And if we approved their Post WRONG....they would come up with another set of examples that also needed to be verified.......but....the OP would have "done its DEED" to make Sanders seem like a "Cave In" when in reality he was abiding by the Senate Rules and the Parliamentarian's direction.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
33. I don't know why this comes across to me as poorly written satire, because it's mostly disingenous.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jul 2015

There are some truths but they seem to be skewed for effect. Just MHO.

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
34. lol
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:58 PM
Jul 2015

Calling Sanders hawkish is pretty amusing.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
39. Even if it was all true, I find the idea that I would switch support to someone known for, and proud
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jul 2015

of, their hawkishness kind of ludicrous and illogical. So for me it is a feh.

eta - it always makes me laugh how the very people who screech "PURIST" don't get it that we are not purists. It really seems to disconcert them when they fail.

aintitfunny

(1,421 posts)
47. This is a raft of Sh#t
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 05:32 PM
Jul 2015

Someone has gone through a lot of effort to pull this together and stir discontent among those who would follow Bernie Sanders. There appears to be an agenda.

He was an anti-war activist during the Viet Nam era. I don't think that he has ever claimed to be simplistically anti war, so much as anti unnecessary war. No one, outside of a few Bush cronies and Dick Cheney like war - in general.

Any public servants's voting record will have questionable votes either by some necessity or the need for compromise to get something done, that is politics, that is reality. I am also certain that every elected official has regrets.

Posting this in the Bernie Sanders section give unworthy credence to the individual who compiled a one sided list of purported betrayals without providing any real details.

mopinko

(70,532 posts)
48. i agree with you.
Thu Jul 2, 2015, 05:43 PM
Jul 2015

that is why i was hoping to get some insight and details if anyone here had them. i made that as clear as i possibly could.
of course it is a slanted article. but the one specific, the vote cited, that i checked turned out to be true. rather than spend the day with the google, i asked it here.

isnt debunking propaganda something that supporters ought to be ready to do?
it is really the first thing i have heard about him that is out of character. most of the anti-bern stuff around here has been overblown conjecture. so i wanted the facts.

i didnt write it. i didnt find it. a hillary supporter really did post it on fb. she isnt the sharpest knife in the drawer, tho she thinks she is. i debunk her posts all the time. i was looking forward to debunking this one.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Bernie Sanders»some slime going around.