Three kinds of threads to stop posting on

[kenfrequed]

I am sure there are more than these, but these are the three kinds of troll-paper that are put out that we should all agree to let sink. All of these are really just an effort to provoke reactions from us and all of them should be ignored in order to let them sink.

1) "Bernie Sanders is not a real Democrat"

It amazes me that some of the same folk that defended Lieberman right up until he finally ran as an independent are making this argument. There are conservative politicians that have had big 'ole 'D's next to their name that have screwed progressives, and even the moderates of the party over for decades. Whenever we stood up to them (Blanche Lincoln in Arkansas comes to mind) we have been castigated for our lack of pragmatism and that we are putting blind purism over the need to win.

There is absolutely no reason and nothing to gain by engaging in fake discussion with this one. Sanders is already on the record as stating he will support the Democratic party now and in November and that should be good enough. The only people it isn't good enough for are people that don't want him to be the candidate.

2) "Bernie the Warhawk"

This is probably the strangest accusation I have ever seen. He is faulted for voting for a military program or so and for supporting the use of US forces in humanitarian works, including trying to stop genocide! Somehow that is considered a bad thing. If you challenge someone on how they can analogize support for Iraq to support for stopping genocide in Kosovo they will always try to turn/project it back on you. "Im not, you are doing it, and you are pretending he is more peaceful than he is." No actual answer will be forthccoming.

But the goal is to try to paint him as some kind of hypocrite that isn't really as peaceful as his supporters suggest, which automatically somehow means we should all go cry in our pillows and just let a candidate that is more of a hawk win. The absurdity of this kind of post cannot be overstated. The only reason to put it up is to try to provoke a reaction.

3) "Bernie followers are meanies/cultists/brainwashed/not real democrats etc.."

This kind of post is particularly annoying and extremely prevalent whenever we get any positive press cycles going. Now, the reality of this is that in a group as large and diverse as ours there are going to be a few jerks. We shouldn't coddle them and we shouldn't encourage them. Of course some people get angry and it is often because they get sucked into an argument similar to one of the two listed above. But that is no excuse for being a jerk. Stop being a jerk. Some of these Hillary supporters are going to switch sides and it would be nice if we were a welcoming presence when they do.

That said, we really need to stop jumping on threads about how bad we are. Responding to these accusations keeps them afloat. Every time you jump onto one of these threads and explain how most of us are nice, normal, well adjusted people you are actually just pumping up that thread a bit longer.

If you cannot possibly help yourself and need to promote how Bernie supporters are welcoming then do that. Create your own thread. It might sink because some of the drama-seekers here are looking for the thrill of internet argumentation, but at least you won't be adding fuel to a thread saying how horrible we all are.


-There are of course other kinds of threads we should stop responding to but these are the ones I have been thinking the most of lately.

[blm]

1. This primary has me retreating from most all threads. I am responding

to any side that furthers corporate media lies and GOP narratives over the actual facts.

But, mostly, I have been staying away. My health hasn't been strong enough to risk the additional (unnecessary) sparring.

[kenfrequed]

2. It has been kind of rough

But we just need to try our best to stay positive on all this.

[roguevalley]

41. I am trying not to post on anything but condolence posts for a while. My heart races too much

[olddots]

3. I try to mellow my troll hunter instincts toned down

we can't leave this place this time .

[JEB]

4. Stick to the issues. Bernie is strongest on the issues,

the things that really matter. Let the ugly political stuff sink in its own stink.

[Scootaloo]

5. Some other tips...

1) There's like, ten assholes that insist on trolling, tops. Half of them end up getting five hides all on their own. The other five can be placed on ignore, and all you'll lose is their trolling. Put them on your blacklist, too.

2) Just go ahead and trash the HRC group. Most of us can't post there ("disloyalty" comes with a price. A very, very small price) and hiding it will save you some tooth-grinding.

3) Bernie's got this. Seriously, just brush by the sophistric, up-to-the-second "punditry." Sanders is running for president, not for prom king, and the contest will not be close to decided for several months to come. And his advance is completely steady. He's got this, and we don't need to burn ourselves out trying to keep up with someone else's juddery whack-a-mole panic campaign.

[kenfrequed]

6. Yup

1) I am pretty sure I have already figured out who they are, but stupidly I still get occasionally pulled into trying to disprove their arguments. I need some kind of app to hit me on the head with a cartoon hammer when I get in too deep with them.

2) Good idea.

3) I have to remind myself of this occasionally. Going out and volunteering in real life helps out a lot with that sort of thing.

[Old Crow]

10. Good advice, but...

"juddery"? ~scratches head~

[RufusTFirefly]

15. That one stumped me, too.

And I consider myself to be a "word person."

It's chiefly British and is similar to jittery. It means shaky or vibrating.

[Old Crow]

18. Ah. Thanks so much! :) (N/T)

[bvar22]

36. Sometimes it takes some real discipline to NOT respond to threads,

...or rebut the myriad False Claims the are essential components of Troll Threads.
Sometimes, I fail, and respond to the bait.
Even if I destroy their argument,
I wind up kicking the Troll Thread back to the top, and that is exactly what they want.

Let 'em drop, and take up smoking cigarettes to calm yourself after "Letting it go".

[LWolf]

64. When I struggle to ignore the bait,

I simply trash the thread.

Then I'm not tempted repeatedly to dive in.

[passiveporcupine]

44. juddery whack-a-mole panic campaign

love this!

[arcane1]

51. Wise words indeed.

[arely staircase]

7. So Bernie the tool of the gun industry is still operative? nt

[kenfrequed]

8. Four..

Four kinds of terrible posts to post on... Hahaha!

[arely staircase]

9. So basically it is rude to mention his record? NT

[kenfrequed]

11. Oh...

You mean the D minus to F rating he has received?

Yeah, sure mention that all you want.

[arely staircase]

13. No, his vote to protect them from Sandy Hook families.

Being indefensible I can see how it would make his campaign uncomfortable.

[smokey nj]

19. Hmmm, Hillary's list of indefensible positions is endless, so take the mote out of your own eye.

[Old Crow]

14. Not sure how you get that takeaway from the post.

Mention away. I can't speak for other Bernie supporters, but personally I much prefer discussion of voting records and issues to--just for the sake of example here--snarky one-liners.

[Scootaloo]

31. No, no, it's Ah! Ah! Ah!

One! One ah!


Twooooo! Two ahs!


Three! There are three ahs!

[kenfrequed]

39. Yeah...

That actually is a lot closer to the sound of it.

For some reason that makes me think of the best sounds-like description ever from Vonnegut's "Sirines of Titan"- Describing snare drum sounds with the effect "rented a tent rented a tent rented a tent tent tent."

[beam me up scottie]

60. LMAO! They walked right into that one.

[kracer20]

12. Shit Stirring

Heard this term mentioned over the last few weeks, and I have to say that in the ten years or so I've been lurking around here I haven't seen quite this much. Seems there are posters that are going out of their way to stir the shit, or poke the bees nest or whatever analogy fits.

[kenfrequed]

16. Exactly

We do ourselves a favor by letting those threads sink to where they belong.

I realized I don't have to play keyboard-commando and fight every bullshit story that someone decides to troll out online. Sometimes the best response is no response.

[arely staircase]

17. The op is a list of things that supposedly shouldnt be debated.

I think they should.

[kenfrequed]

21. Huh?

We should debate whether or not Bernie is a real democrat, whether Bernie is a warhawk, and whether Bernie sanders supporters are meanies?

Are you kidding me??!!

Two of those aren't even campaign issues and one of them is utterly ridiculous given his record.

Did you happen to notice this is posted in the Bernie Sanders group? I mean, I know this kind of thing pops up in the GD-primary list a lot but those three things I put up have almost no substance at all.

[daleanime]

33. Why?

Do you think some one is going to change your mind?

[L0oniX]

71. ~

Perfect

[PatSeg]

75. I don't know

It really feels a lot like 2008. I got sucked in so many times by agitators disguised as supporters of one candidate or another, starting fights wherever they went. When the election was over, most of them magically disappeared! I'm sure they are back again now, possibly with new names, but armed with a handful of button-pushing one liners.

I am much wiser now. I don't need an "ignore" button, I've gotten quite good at "ignoring"!

[zeemike]

20. Well I have been here long enough to recognize who is who on DU.

And some posters i do not click on at all...knowing what it will be about.
And others I will click on every time because I know it will be good...there actually more of them than the former.
But some times I do get drawn into it when I am feeling testy...but less and less as this goes on.

[Pauldg47]

24. Me too !!!

[leftcoastmountains]

22. I just have a question or two

regarding people who respond to these threads.
What do you hope to gain by answering these people?
You aren't going to change their mind. I don't think anyone
is going to vote based on these threads. I don't go to
them personally just like I don't watch Faux News (ever) or MSM
when it's all about Trump. In fact I've been so annoyed with
all political talk whether it's NPR or local news that I have reverted
back to listening to music when I'm in the car ( which I haven't done in
years). I guess I don't understand the necessity people feel in posting
to the "others". Just my two cents.

[kenfrequed]

27. I don't like classifying people as "others."

We come here to discuss and because of an interest in democratic policy and our candidates. Sometimes we try to convicne each other but some threads aren't really based on policy or any reasonable criteria for candidates and they seem to be more about trying to spread nonsensical arguments.

Sometimes swatting these aside works, sometimes fact-bombing them works, but with those I have listed neither of these things is terribly effective and I find it best to avoid those posts and encourage others to do likewise in order to see them quietly slip away without all the drama and nastiness.

Again though, regardless of the problems we have right now in the debate as to our prefered canddiate the hope is that we won't alienate people too much. The arguments I have seen that use the three examples I pointed out tend to be made in such a way that it actually drives people away or creates a lot of anger.

You cannot fight or argue someone into not saying "bernie supporters are meanies." It just can't be done. do amount of arguing or debating or negotiating will change that persons mind about that. Maybe they had a bad experience or maybe they are just looking to stir up the pot for whatever reason. In either case jumping onto a thread that is obviously designed to create anger is not going to go well. Best solution is to ignore it and post something positive into the GD list.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. On the other hand

every now and then it's fun to squeeze a bit of amusement out of them. Granted, the amusement value is limited but it's fun watching themselves tie themselves into knots on occasion.

[hamsterjill]

25. Staying out of the fray, when possible, is usually a good move.

I, myself, am trying to remember that the infighting in primary season is really stupid because if we are truly REAL Democrats, then we're going to support the ultimate nominee, whomever that may be.

We don't need to get so nasty with one another that it becomes impossible for us all to come together once we have a nominee. If THAT were to happen, the Republicans win, and I'm not here for that purpose.

I have a favorite candidate right now, but I will support the Democratic nominee, regardless of who that is because I cannot fathom another four to eight years of someone like George W. Bush.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

28. Bravo! I'm sick of the nastiness. I'm trying to mellow.

The kush doesn't hurt.

[Le Taz Hot]

58. Not all of us are Democrats on this board.

There's actually a whole lot of us who aren't.

[enlightenment]

61. Yep.

And it is almost time for the every four-year "only registered Democrats should be allowed here - it says "Democratic" Underground, right?" posts to appear.

[Le Taz Hot]

62. I tell them I lean more "underground" than Democratic.

[enlightenment]

63. Good response!

It has always amused me that those most willing to use the "rules" to cull the herd are the same people who are the least likely to actually read them.

[A Simple Game]

79. I like to tell them to read the mission statement in the about section.

I urge them to pay attention to the word "liberal" and ask themselves if they fit into that mold. Most of them don't.

I also fit more into the "underground" part, but just received my voter registration form in the mail today to re-register as a Democrat to be eligible for the New York State primary. I have been unaffiliated for at least 20 years and will probably return to that status after the primary.

[hamsterjill]

65. So, you might support a Republican candidate for President?

n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

68. Right, because there are only two choices.

[Autumn]

74. You know this is not the Hillary group

so you may want to back off our members with your psychic abilities. TIA

[hamsterjill]

80. "Back off"

Not sure what the hell you mean by that. I've not even mentioned Hillary.

Speaking of staying out of the fray (my post up thread), I just love it when someone makes a snarky reply. Adds NOTHING useful to intelligent discussion. Go play some more video games.

[NRaleighLiberal]

26. I poke my head in here, read a bit - but mostly am relishing my book-related gardening activities

right now in Virginia for a set of talks and book signings at Monticello. Next weekend in Pennsylvania.

Life is too short to get emotionally chewed up by politics - so I am choosing to live in the world of plants and peace!

[zeemike]

30. And you are more likely to have a happy healthy life.

Plants never are offensive and lower blood pressure when you love them.

[NRaleighLiberal]

32. it's synergistic - plants make me happy and vice versa!

lovely here in Charlottesville. Long year though - feeling kind of burned out....

[bvar22]

40. ...Plants are never offensive.....

except for Texas Bull Nettles.
They are devious too.
They move when your back is turned,
and if you like riding on the tailgate of a pick up letting you legs dangle while touring the farm,
you won't do that but once in East Texas.

Bull Nettles are the spawn of Satan.

Bull nettle, scorpion or fire ant sting: which is worse?
http://npsot.org/wp/crosstimbers/2013/919/

[zeemike]

52. Well some plants demand our respect.

But it is not out of malis...it is just their survival strategy that gets in our way.

But the answer is fire ant stings, hands down, mostly because it is never just one of them.

[bvar22]

53. Have you ever been dragged through a Texas Bull Nettle?

Fire Ants are a scourge here in Arkansas,
and I have no love for them,
but I'll take them to the Bull Nettle whose little spikes can stay under the skin for days or weeks.
Now, if we make the choice between a Rattle Snake or a Bull Nettle,
I'll take the Nettle, but just barely.

You are correct about Fire Ants somehow know to cover their victim before the Head Ant gives the order for everybody to sting at once.


Odd Fact:
Our weather has been so non-normal this year that we have NO Fire Ants...not a single mound.
No mosquitoes and few flying bugs either.
We can leave an outside light on at night without a cloud of bugs.
Our Bee Colonies seem OK,
but the lack of bugs this year scares me somewhat.
Never seen this before.

I hope all the Fire Ants just decided to go home.

[zeemike]

56. Yep, no bugs should concern us.

That is a bad sign for nature.
Never had an encounter with bull nettles but it sounds like it is something I don't miss.

Our weather here in New Mexico has been not normal either, but in a good way...we have had rain and the ground is now covered with plant life...and plenty of insects sp this will be a good year. It started out bad though, a late frost killed all the fruit on our fruit trees.
Oh well maybe next year...this is the 4th year in a row that it has happened.

[LiberalArkie]

29. It is not Bernie vs Hillary. It never was. It is Progressive D vs Moderate/Conservative D

that is the question. You will not be able to swing either on to the other. Progressives would have been solidly behind HRC if Sanders or O'Malley had not entered the race.

Probably for the first time since RFK have people with a Progressive tilt felt like someone felt like they did. RFK had the same battle back then "of being just a little too Liberal". I do feel that Bernie is dragging the party slowly to the left. This will be good. Even if HRC wins the nomination I feel she will be a little to the left of where she would have been without Sanders and O'Malley. (I can wish can't I).

It seems that the chance for the pendulum to swing to the Left only happens every 50 years or so. I hope the nation doesn't miss it this time.

[djean111]

34. I would not have been "solidly behind Hillary". I would have been "meh" at the very best.

Fracking, cluster bombs, war, H-1B visas, TPP - I just cannot get behind that.

[d_legendary1]

38. You're right about that

I was swinging for Hillary until Sanders threw his hat in the ring. Originally I liked Warren but she said no. He's the best us "fringe" voters can get and I don't mind it one bit. Hope springs eternal for the nation swinging to the left. We could sure use it right about now.

[Tommymac]

42. I disagree on the 'solidity' for HRC - This progressive would have been holding his nose.

Once again. Her support would have been shallow at best among the Democratic Wing (and perhaps is even among the centrists as her recent fall is showing). The People are tired of triangulation and being force fed hand picked establishment candidates.

Thank the Goddess for an honest and truthful man - Bernie Sanders. I am proud to stand on street corners and bellow out my 100% support for him.

[demwing]

43. Nominally behind Clinton, not solidly

but in another time...maybe

Unfortunately, her ties to the banks, her vote on the war, and her behavior during the 2008 primaries changed the opinion of many people, and not for the better.

Plus I resent the claims that non-fans are "haters," and that criticism of Hillary somehow equates to a general attitude of sexism.

[L0oniX]

72. So you're saying Kim Davis (Dem) will be voting for Hillary?

[turbinetree]

35. FEEL the BERN....................................

I do, and that's why ..........................


Honk------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[silverweb]

37. I love my "trash this thread" button.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]It works really, really well for the types of threads you describe - with the side benefit of keeping my blood pressure happy.

[BigDemVoter]

45. I'm not around here much, so I haven't seen any of those threads. . . .

WHATEVER one may think of Bernie Sanders, I don't see how anybody could make any of those claims. He's actually more of a Democrat than that asshole, Manchin.

[abakan]

46. I think Bernie can withstand,

any lies or any trash, nameless, faceless, people post on an internet message board. Their words are not engraved in stone and have an end. We just have to wait for the primary to be over and the internal discourse to be about the winner of the primary.
I hope the seeds of hate have not been sown in fertile soil and we can all gather around the Democratic candidate for President of the United Stated.

There is no reason these problems on an internet message board, should make you sick. When you get angry walk away and find something that makes you happy.

[emsimon33]

47. Very good points

Why waste time responding to the ill-informed?

[jtuck004]

49. If you really want him elected, talk to other voters. Not here.

Here it seems most people have already frozen their thinking.

Go elsewhere. Talk to voters. Eat doughnuts. Print off a pamphlet and leave it on the bus, or anywhere else you go. Point out to people he wants what they want. Let them decide. That may be all you need to do.

(Btw, people in this country have been trained to hate socialists and communists as the same thing, and to kill them if they try to talk. For a long time it was ok to just murder them to stop them from talking. Do not think that is a joke - if you try using it in some of these little towns around here, you may not leave in one piece. Or maybe not alive. So be careful using the word socialist unless your ego is more important than hearing Bernie called President Sanders. Or unless you are a supporter of Mrs. Clinton, from what I read here).

[leftcoastmountains]

54. Wearing my button has started a few onversations.

But here in California we don't vote until June 7th.
I think the nominee will be selected by then.

[Le Taz Hot]

59. Not necessarily.

As long as he can beat her in some of the primary states and at least stay a close 2nd in others, this could be a long primary season and we in California better be ready because we have 53 lovely electoral college votes in November of 2016 with his name on them.

[PowerToThePeople]

73. "There's nothing wrong with correcting misinformation."

You kind of have to.

I have seen some threads that were so wrong that no one bothered to call it out.

The HRCers, BOGers, third-wayers, and neoliberals in general all just piled into the thread patting each others backs and giving high fives. They try to make it look like people truly approved of the OP.



Someone has to call out the bs imo. I do tire of it though. I just now ignored one poster who has gotten too under my skin.

[beam me up scottie]

55. Thank you.

I need to be reminded of this frequently especially when I see the same posters constantly refer to Senator Sanders as "BS".

We don't let toddlers get us worked up irl so why reward such childish behaviour on DU by responding to people who act like 3 year olds?

Indulging them only encourages more of the same.

[kenfrequed]

66. Yeah, that one is blatant.

I have respectfully asked one person doing that to stop a few times. But they were blatantly continued to do so and ignored my request.

[beam me up scottie]

67. Incessantly mocking a sitting Senator's initials is childish, petty and disrespectful.

I think even other HC supporters roll their eyes when they see that kind of behaviour.

[sabrina 1]

69. The third one, attacking Bernie's supporters, appears to be an organized strategy. Bernie is a huge

huge threat to the Status Quo so a lot of money will be spent trying to stop him. It's a difficult task for them to attack him on the issues, or his personal life, they try, but we've seen what happens when they do, it only makes the status quo candidates look worse.

So the ONLY thing they can do, they think, is to attack his supporters. IF, the thinking goes, they can paint his support as 'fringe' 'nasty' 'cultlike' 'extreme left' etc, that will reflect on him.

It isn't working, because for one thing, it's false, but also because every DAY Bernie is attracting new supporters. And they are from every demographic in the country.

It's a stupid tactic, but it is all they've got so the best way to respond is either ignore it or when you see it, ask them about the ISSUES. Ignore their attempts to derail, then focus on an issue and ask for their opinion. Those who are sincere WILL respond re issues, those who are not will continue to try to spread this nonsense.

Best way to respond to negative ops, is as this OP says, write your own. Let the talking points sink.

[TheJames]

70. I'm FROM Louisiana,

And grew up (relatively) sane, thanks to an ex-schoolteacher, ex-Yankee grandmother and my functionally blind, semi-literate (3rd grade education) non-bigot father I read science fiction from the 6th grade, so I am aware people come in LOTS of flavors and that this is something to celebrate and be enjoyed. I've had LOTS of experience walking away from fools and assholes.
In addition, my mother's brother was a glider pilot in WW2. The average survival rate was approximately 2/3 of a mission. He did three And WALKED BACK TO THE FRONT LINES from all three. If he's still alive, he carries shrapnel today. It did not break him and it was obvious, that that was a close thing, WOULD NOT talk about it. As I acquired SOME maturity, I integrated these lessons to the best of my ability. I am enormously grateful for these role models and lessons, although it has made it increasingly difficult to live in today's militaristic, sold culture.

[navarth]

76. important post. thanks. kicking

[Hollingsworth]

77. That is very good advice.

I have already discovered a couple people that I don't want to hear from anymore. They jab and poke and lay their traps, it's so obvious. I don't know if I will ignore them yet but I will not engage with people that are only looking for bear.

[MisterP]

78. attack on the strengths, not the weaknesses--get them defending and apologizing,

then attack them for daring defend themselves because where there's smoke there must be fire